The Tyler Durden Handbook
THE TYLER DURDEN HANDBOOK 2 THE ALPHA MALE ATTITUDE IS WHAT DETERMINES WHAT YOU GET AWAY WITH AL
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THE TYLER DURDEN HANDBOOK
2
THE ALPHA MALE
ATTITUDE IS WHAT DETERMINES WHAT YOU GET AWAY WITH ALPHA BEHAVIOURS – HIERARCHIES / STATES & WINGTACTICS WHAT IS GENUINE? WHAT IS MUTUAL BENEFIT? NEW AGE MALE TOO ALPHA – OVERQUALIFICATION THE NEXT LEVEL DEVELOPMENTAL MAP OF A PUA 25 POINT AFC CHECKLIST 10 ALPHA BEHAVIORS
5 6 9 17 18 21 22 24 26
STATE CONTROL
STATE CONTROL INNER GAME IMPROVEMENT AND INTERNAL DIALOGUE
30 31 32
SOCIAL DYNAMICS
THE SECRET SOCIETY SCIENCE OF SOCIAL NETWORKS SOCIAL INTELLIGENCE – VIBING JUST GO OUT AND WATCH
33 35 36 40
EARLY GAME
LOW KEY VS HIGH IMPACT PU INDIRECT VS DIRECT KEY DISTINCTION – INTRIGUE VS ATTRACTION SETS VIA ENERGY/MATERIAL VS STRENGTH OF FRAME ORIENTING YOUR GAME TO YOUR DESIRED RESULTS THE PROCESS – NO ONE IS ABOVE IT FRAME SETTING AVOIDING FRAMES PROXIMITY IOI’S COMMENTS ON AI TONALITY PLAYING HARD TO GET ACTIVE DISINTEREST ACTIVE DISINTEREST IS NOT ASEXUAL – IMPORTANT THE BEGINNING, AND TRANSITIONING INITIATING APPROACHES – ANGLES, MOVEMENTS HOW TO PICK UP, FOR REAL STREET SARGING SHORT SET METHOD MORE ON SHORT SET METHOD CRAIG’S METHOD...THE NATURAL WAY 2 C&F ROLEPLAYING FRAMES I USED LAST WEEKEND CHICK CRACK: MINI-COLD READS THE 101 PRIMER – NEO-RIO
41 42 45 47 49 50 52 53 54 55 57 59 66 69 71 72 75 79 82 83 85 89 91 93 2
3
FALSE DIQUALIFICATION FALSE DISQUALIFICATION EXPLAINED PUSH / PULL TACTICS FOR RAPPORT AND ATTRACTION THE ELASTIC BAND EFFECT SWINGGCAT – QUALIFYING AND CHALLENGING CONVEYING STANDARDS / MAKING GIRLS QUALIFY IDENTITY – BY MYSTERY ADDED VALUE – BY STYLE PRERESEARCHED EV BUYING TEMPERATURE STRATEGIC BUYING TEMPERATURE ESCALATION SWITCHING GEARS AND READING SIGNS SPASTIC LATE NIGHT RAMBLING MIXING AND MATCHING V, A, C, Q, S BUILDING JEALOSY INTO A SARGE SOCIAL PROOF TRICKS (PIVOTS) BACKTURN HANDGRAB FOR MOVING CHICKS RAPPORT BUILDING RAPPORT – AUTOPILOT RESPONSE KINO TESTS KINO ESCALATION CAVEMANNING, BODYLANGUAGE, AND PUA CYCLES ROUTINE THEORY NEW ROUTINES (BREAKDOWN AND BUILDING) HABITS LEAD TO ROUTINE GENERATION ROUTINE / OPENER CURVE THE ROUTINE CURVE IN PUA DEVELOPMENT THE ANOMOLY EFFECT HIGH DRAMA STATE CHANGES DISSECTING SHIT TEST PASSING MEASURES SHIT TEST PASSING COMPETENCY SEXUAL PREDATOR MISINTERPRETATION ENVIRONMENTAL STATE BREAKERS CHECKLIST FOR GAME PLAN
98 99 100 101 102 108 109 112 115 116 120 121 123 136 140 141 142 143 148 150 151 153 157 160 162 163 164 165 167 169 173 176 178 180
LATE GAME
SEDUCE IN THE RIGHT VENUE GETTING COMFORTABLE SO YOU CAN WORK HOW TO FUCK A WOMAN WHO WANTS TO BE FUCKED – COOLJOE NOTES ON TONGUEDOWNS CONVERTING C&F INTO TOUNGUEDOWN AFTER KISS CLOSING DISARMING LMR MORE ON DISARMING LMR AFTERBAR LATENIGHT FOOLS MATING TECH
181 185 186 190 192 194 195 196 198
AMOGs & BOYFRIENDS
BOYFRIEND DESTROYER HANDLING AMOGS QUICK AMOG TACTICS MORE AMOG TACTICS SUBTLE EXAMPLE OF AMOG STUFF
199 204 209 210 217 3
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APPROACHING CHICKS WITH BF’S / DATES COUPLES ON DATES TUG OF WAR – THE ULTIMATE PUA BATTLE
219 220 221
TROUBLESHOOTING
LOCKUP HOW TO TAKE THE FUCK OVER A SET OWNING A GROUP SET DOWNPLAYING GIRLS HAVING FITS BUSTING GIRLS ON THEIR MANNERISMS CALLING CLUB GIRLS ON BEING UNGENUINE TURNING AROUND A SET
224 225 227 229 230 231 233
PHONE GAME
HOW TO PREDICT FLAKES PHONE GAME
234 236
HOW TO GET 7’S AND 8’S CONSISTENTLY UG THEORY PICKING UP HIRED HOTTIES DON’T BE THE CHEESY GUY DIFFERENT METHODS TO LOOK AT WHO ARE YOU? SICKBOY INTERVIEW ****
239 240 241 243 244 248 250
MISC
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ATTITUDE IS WHAT DETERMINES WHAT YOU GET AWAY WITH Question: When does pushing a chick come off as desperate? Answer: It depends on your attitude, and how you’re perceived by the chick in question. How you are perceived determines what you get away with. An alpha guy can get away with SHIT jokes, and people will laugh. He can get away with grabbing chicks, pushing chicks, making fun of chicks, and pretty much ANYTHING THE FUCK ELSE he wants. Here’s are some examples from REAL LIFE: EG#1) The Mr. Popular alpha male of his grade is sitting beside a girl I know in their science class. A movie is playing and its dark. He pulls out his dick, and tells her “touch my finger”.. she touches it, realizes its his dick, and shreiks.. he’s like “what.. it was just my finger”.. and she shreiks and giggles and looks all flushed. She doesn’t even have any interest in the guy, but because he’s COCKY/FUNNY, he not only gets away with PULLING HIS DICK OUT and TRICKING A GIRL INTO TOUCHING IT, but he actually GAINS her interest by doing it. Now if a BETA guy did that, he would be instantly EXPELLED, ridiculed, and possibly CRIMINALLY CHARGED. EG#2) You guys read in many of my field reports, instances where I steal shit from chicks and push them into change rooms in stores and all sorts of stuff like that. Now when I was at my Mystery Method workshop, I was initially learning the method and C&Bed a few times in a row. It was getting to me, and for No9’s amusement, I steal a chick’s drink who has been snubbing me. She gets angry, freaks out, and says some shit to me and leaves. I look like a WEIRDO, and she thinks that I’m FUCKED IN THE HEAD. If any guys were with her, she probably would have told them to fuck me up or something. Of course, I’ve done this SUCCESSFULLY more times than I can remember. So why did it bomb this one time? Because I looked and in fact WAS being beta at the time. I realized I was fucking up, bounced back, and pulled off the maneuvre to wicked success several times after that, realizing where I’d fucked up, and taking measures to correct it. I get away with ANYTHING like that normally, if I’m -ON-. But when I’m tired and looking run down, if I do that stuff (often out of habit), I get the OPPOSITE results than the ones I’m looking for. EG#3) A alpha type guy PUSHES and PUSHES and PUSHES a chick for sex, maybe a date, hatever. The chick think’s its funny, sexy, or cute.. often, she eventually cracks and they fuck. Why did she fuck him? He was just so “confident”. Hollywood examples are Ben Affleck in the movie ‘Pearl Harbour’ when he picks up the nurse, and Mel Gibson in the movie ‘What women want’ when he picks up Marrisa Tomei. A beta type guy does the same thing, and she CALLS THE POLICE and gets a RESTRAINING ORDER. Why did she do that? He was “desperate” and his desperation made him seem “scary”. So why does this stuff happen? Because if you are perceived as ALPHA, then its implicit that you can sex up chicks on a regular basis. So if you’re doing this stuff, its just for FUN. A beta type guy acting cocky/funny (such as the dick pullout trick) is perceived as maybe going over the edge. (he either doesn’t know his place in the heirarchy, or is making a lame-ass attempt to pull one over, or is just plain weird) If he steals stuff from the chick as a joke, its perceived as him REALLY STEALING shit from her, since he obviously wouldn’t be trying to flirt with her, since a beta type guy doesn’t really flirt. If he’s PUSHY for sex, he comes off as ON THE EDGE and SCARY and maybe even CRAZY or a RAPIST, since a beta type guy doesn’t do stuff like that unless he’s losing it. Conclusion: • •
If you’re alpha, you get away with ANYTHING you want, and people rarely question it. When you try this type of stuff, try to GAUGE how people are reacting to it.. do you sense that they’re questioning it, or do they just think its funny and cool? If you feel like its not working for you, try ADJUSTING your behaviour in some way, and seeing if that works. You’ll get it eventually, it just takes time and experience.
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ALPHA BEHAVIOURS – HIERARCHIES / STATES & WINGTACTICS About a week ago, I showed up at my friend’s birthday pub-crawl in a local Kingston bar. I arrived late, and searched the bar for my friends. Upon finding them, I discovered that they were drunk, and basically ignored me, making me feel beta, thus ruining my state. The rest of the night I was unable to approach effectively, and my game basically BROKE DOWN. WHAT - CAUSED - THIS??? Lowrider recently posted about the difference that he found from one night to the next. The first night, his state was ruined by a snub early on. Bad night. Negative experience. The following night, he was ON FIRE. Ruled the club. An “ON” night, as Style (CPowles) would call it. WHY THE DIFFERENCE??? WHAT CAUSED THIS??? Researchers have found that males’ testosterone levels are effected even by trivial events such as their favourite sports team winning or losing a game. Our testosterone varies depending on the level of success that we have. Mystery calls this MOMENTUM. Our state DRASTICALLY affects our ability to pickup girls. They pickup on it. THEY PICKUP ON IT. When I’m in a good state, I can perform at elite levels. On some rare occassions I’ve seen my game run even as tight as Mystery’s. I’ll feel great, practically invincible. Cocky as ever, I feel like I can pickup any chick in the club - and I CAN. I CAN THINK OF ALL THE RIGHT THINGS TO SAY. ROUTINES AND LINES ARE FLOWING OUT OF MY MOUTH EFFORTLESSLY. I AM FUNNY, SHARP, COCKY, AND ITS ALL EFFORTLESS. I AM ON. Other nights, I cannot initiate a chat to save my life. SERIOUSLY, I CANNOT INITIATE A CHAT. No exaggeration. I’ll try, but I’ll be snubbed over and over. Literally, no exaggeration. I get sub-AFC. This happens to me at least one out of every 5-6 times that I’ll go out. So what causes this??? After meeting and talking with many other PUAs in real life, I’ve been able to peice together a trend. It has to do with how ALPHA you feel at the time, and the BIOFEEDBACK that you get as a result. This also relates to WING TACTICS, which will be explained more in depth later in the post. EXAMPLES: 1) No9 is Mystery’s roomate. No9 does not enjoy going out and playing pickup with Mystery. Similarly, when No9 goes out with Twentysix and I, he’ll often sit there and just watch. This struck me as strange, because during my MM-Workshop, he was an instructor, and showed incredible skill. I asked Twentysix, “dude, why is 9 not sarging lately?”.. Twentysix didn’t know. THEN, when we did the Toronto Workshop, I look over and see No9 BUSTING PHAT MOVES. He’s working it in front of the STUDENTS. He’s working the room, PU’ing chicks left and right. His skill is coming through, and he’s on fire. Top-skilled PUA. WHY? 2) Twentysix always has new chicks on the go. When he goes out with his normal wingman, 10magnet, he’ll get several #s that turn into get-togethers. When he went out with RickyRoma and TorontoGuy, he worked the shit - had girls all over him, etc etc. But when Twentysix goes out with ME, he doesn’t usually get strong results. He’ll get GOOD results, but not NEARLY as close as when he’s with weaker wingmen. WHY? 3) Usually (not always) when I meet new ASFers, I am in impressive form. When I meet a new ASFer, I expect them to have almost no skill, and to be generally impressed with me. Then I met SUPERSLICKA in Ottawa, and as it turned, he had GAME. I was surprised, since on the phone I’d kind of treated him like a newbie. We get to the club, and I find myself kind of talking faster than usual, and telling him tons of stories about chicks I’ve gotten with. I wondered “why am I doing this”, but continued on in this fashion. My night was mediocre. The next night got WORSE. My game FELL APART. I had difficulty doing approaches, and initiating chats with anyone in the club. WHY? (my results were better than second time we hung out, but that’s a whole ‘nother post) 4) Papa and I spent 6 weeks travelling together. At first, my game was significantly stronger, and Papa would generally just watch what I would do, and try to copy it. He commented that he was disappointed that I wasn’t learning as much from him as he was from me. As he picked up on what I was doing, he not only internalized it, but actually IMPROVED ON IT. His game became extremely tight, and I began to sort of sit back and watch. As the week progressed, my game began to FALL APART. I was in very poor form.
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7 Then, one night in Wisconsin Papa gets all drunk with his friends. We’re all out together, and I am free to sarge without watching Paps working the room better than I am. I have the first TOP NOTCH night in a long time. I get SOLID meet-closes with no less than EIGHT girls, have girls CRAWLING on me, get tonguedowns, and have girls on me all night. My confidence is restored, and I have MOMENTUM. The next day we travel to Chicago where I meet Orion and MadDash. As posted, I have 2 TOP DAYS in a row, including the stripper adventure and the Smashing Pumpkins adventure. I tonguedown around 15 girls in 2 days, and have girls lusting and crawling all over me. Meanwhile, Papa’s game FALLS APART. He is fucking up under the pressure of hoping to impress Orion and MadDash, and generally does NOTHING of note. He later comments “I felt like going over to you and asking you to open sets for me.. I dunno what it was.. I kept thinking ‘shit, I need TD in set with me’..” This was the guy who had DOMINATED the clubs for the past 3 weeks. Still, he couldn’t take the pressure when my game was on. WHY? 5) Often my game will be tight as fuck all week. Then, when I go to visit my PU-tutor, Mystery, my game will be WEAK. In fact, in all my time with Mystery, I’ve never shown him my tightest game. When it comes to PU, Mystery is so alpha that it cannot be conveyed over this internet chat board. Words cannot describe what the guy can do. There are guys on the Lounge who have written extensive commentary on strategy PURELY for “sarging AROUND Mystery”. Mystery is my teacher, and even though we can hang out and bust on eachother like normal guys, I’ve never had strong game around him when we’re in the club. Not bad or anything, but never strong. In fact, the ONLY guy who can wing effectively with Mystery is STYLE. PERIOD. WHY? It’s interesting, because when you look back at the case where I showed up at my drunken friend’s party, and I was ignored, my game fell apart. The days where I’ve had STRONG game, have often been when I’ve hit up the shopping mall, and chatted up the CLERKS who HAVE to chat me as part of their job. I eventually attract some of them, and feel a strong state. I then show up at the club EARLY, and chat up the staff.. The momentum from the mall clerks propels me to succeed with the barstaff, and then I get in an even better mood. This momentum then turns into an amazing night, and I have many successful PUs. Generally, the success of my night is STATE BASED. I do well when I have MOMENTUM. WHEN YOUR WING’S GAME BREAKS DOWN - PROCEDURES: In the past, when my wingman’s game had broken down, I’d stop and start running strategy and criticism on why it has occured. Try to get to the bottom of it, etc etc. This has NEVER been helpful, and has always just made things WORSE. It never got good results. What I’ve figured out now, is that GIVING ADVICE is OUT-ALPHAING your wingman. By taking your advice, your wingman is BETA-ing himself. Doing this in PICKUP is CATEGORICALLY DIFFERENT than in tasks such as academic work, because ALPHA STATE will DICTATE RESULTS. In academic work, for example, you can take advice from someone, and it will improve your final draft. However, during pickup, as you take advice, you feel beta-ed, and your results become WORSE and WORSE. Again - taking advice during ANY other activity is EFFECTIVE, because the advice is HELPFUL. Because the MERE ACT OF TAKING ADVICE makes you feel beta, it is UNHELPFUL. Therefore you must always AVOID giving advice to your wingman IN FIELD, and SAVE it for a post-game DEBRIEF. It is my opinion that STRATEGY SHOULD NOT BE DISCUSSED WHILE IN THE MIDST OF PLAYING THE GAME, and should be saved for a post game debrief. THE SOLUTION: When your wingman’s game breaks down, the KEY is to AVOID talking about pickup. Realize that the SMALL AMOUNT of strategy that you can discuss will NOT change your wingman’s game enough in such a short period of time to effect substantial change in his game. The SOLUTION is to TAKE A BREATHER, and just go play pool or go outside for a bite to eat or something. JOKE AROUND. Do NOT address that his night is going poorly. AVOID it. If he asks why, just say “dude, you’re MONEY.. those chicks were defective anti-social.. do you wanna go find some NORMAL SOCIABLE CHICKS?” and then let HIM direct you back in.
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8 LET YOUR WINGMAN TAKE CHARGE of the situation, so that he can RETURN to alpha-state. Do NOT start offering advice, or you will BETA his state. Do NOT tell him about all the chicks you are picking up. Just joke around, and put him into a situation that will BOOST his state / elevate his testosterone / whatever. **Get him to TAKE CHARGE in a way that is SUBTLE, so he doesn’t know that you are deliberately patronizing him. If you can prod him to do something that makes him feel alpha, he will return to alpha-state, and again become a helpful and effective wingman. This is important of course, for 2sets and just because in general, your wingman should be social-proofing you. An ideal pair of wingmen don’t cockfarm eachother out. They BENEFIT and SOCIAL PROOF eachother, because they are BOTH cool guys. A tactic that helps with this is: ACCOMPLISHMENT INTRODUCTIONS: When my wingman comes in, I give him the BEST introduction possible. “Guys guys! This is Twentysix! This is the COOLEST MUTHAFUCKA on the ENTIRE PLANET.. If you talk to this guy for even 30 seconds, you will clearly see that he is the coolest fucking guy” Then update him on what you’ve been chatting the chicks about, so he can throw in his 2c. This also sets the frame that you are more into your wing than the chicks. “Bros before hoes” mentality. Makes you seem cooler and thus more attractive to the set. Alpha heirarchy bullshit will dictate whether or not you pull the FINEST girls on any given night. Take for example the parties that I’ll attend. On nights when I am the coolest guy in the room, I have FULL ATTENTION, and I am the ANCHOUR of the conversations. (as discussed in the post below this one). On such a night, I WILL pull the hottest girls, or at very least have all of the attention and IOIs. However, if a cooler/more alpha guy shows up, I will NOT have good results. I’ll probably go home with nothing, or scraps. More on wingman tactics: I’ve noticed that when I have a newbie with me, I’ll usually TAKE CHARGE. I am the man. I go into sets WITHOUT THINKING. I AM ALPHA. However, when I have an equally skilled PUA with me, I sometimes think more about results. I think too much. Will I get snubbed? Will this work? etc etc... With a new guy, I don’t have TIME to think about this stuff. I have to TAKE CHARGE of the situation. I feel ALPHA, and chicks PICKUP on it. I have an excellent night. OK, that’s all I can think of on this topic. Alot of disorganized blather. Hopefully people will derive usefulness out of it, and results.
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WHAT IS GENUINE? WHAT IS MUTUAL BENEFIT? The latest discussions about genuine behaviour have just gotten me thinking about something that hasn’t really been cashed out on this board lately. WHAT IS GENUINE? WHAT IS FAKE? WHAT ACTIONS ARE GENUINE ACTIONS? HOW DOES THIS EFFECT US? WHAT PHILOSOPHICAL ISSUES ARISE FROM THIS? WHAT CONSTITUTES MUTUAL BENEFIT IN PICKUP? A very important topic. Try to bear with me, chunks practical and tactical materials ARE buried within..
In my experience, if I ask a girl what sort of way she feels a guy should go about picking her up, she’ll often reply with something to the effect of: “Well.. He should come and say ‘Hi’. Then he should just be himself.. He should be confident.. Introduce himself.. Maybe have a sense of humour.. Talk to me a bit so that we can get to know eachother.. And ask me if I’ll go somewhere nice with him.. Oh yeah, also I like it if he’ll just give me his number, just in case, you know..” This way, she can screen him on looks, and proceed to make a rational decision on her terms. It would be uncommon to hear a girl say, “I want a guy who will dupe me into a conversation with a chick-bait opener, tease me until I almost lose my mind, weave back and forth with stories that make me go crazy, spin me around and trick me into kissing him with my eyes closed, tell me cute things about himself so I’ll go ga-ga for him, and make fake pre-suppositions to be alone with him so he can caveman me.” Nor would she likely say “I want a guy to hypnotize me with neuro-linguistic-programming.” Nor would she likely say “I want a guy who will ignore me and blast me off my pedastal by only talking to my friends, so that I’ll revalidate myself by sleeping with him.” Of course, these last three work consistently on women of exceptional beauty, and the first one doesn’t (again, CONSISTENTLY). I draw this conclusion based on experience. My first 8 months in the game, I only had a book called “10 Secrets for Success with Beautiful Women” by a woman named Ursula Lidstrom. She advocated the sort of approach that most women would want, and claimed her expertise as exceptional because she is a woman offering “inside info”. Her system was to be yourself, confident, and genuine. Also, to demonstrate alpha status through good bodylanguage and being well dressed. After hundreds of approaches, I got this down pat. I did at least 5 approaches a day (though usually more), just being myself, confident, and getting to know girls in a way that was very cool and genuine - all as Ursula Lidstrom suggested. Read the book probably 10-15 times. (sidenote: EXCELLENT info on bodylanguage and GWM-style phase shifting can be found in this book, if you screen the rest). Unfortunately, for those eight months I did not have sex even ONCE. I am not good looking, and could have had sex with HB7s, but that did/does not interest me. I was entirely celibate those eight months. I made many non-sexual friendships with girls, who still to this day social-proof me on campus. But whenever I’d try to escalate, they’d react with “You’re a really great guy. I’m just not looking for someone right now. You’re really confident, you’ll find someone.” Bear in mind though also, that I am not goodlooking. This probably could have worked for guys who could convey higher value via their looks. People DO hookup. Also note that in general, YES you CAN pickup a girl within around 1 look-point difference of you, if you use the method that girls want. So if you’re a 7 yourself, you can occasionally pickup 6s, 7s, and SOMETIMES 8s using this method. Even higher, but that’s a more rare exception. The reason being, that being confident and genuine IS NOT THAT UNCOMMON, and unless the girl doesn’t have many genuine people in her life, it doesn’t CONVEY HIGHER VALUE. I have MANY genuinely confident people in my life, and while pleasant it is not a big deal to me. Girls are no different. Genuine and confident people are EVERYWHERE. There is little correlation between these traits, and an exceptionally drop dead gorgeous woman being attracted to a mediocre looking guy. The ONLY way that you can convey HIGHER value, by using this method, is if you have a RARE connection with the girl. This does happen, though it cannot be called a consistent pickup method, since it relies on external factors (ie: that you actually have a similar world view, or something similar, etc etc). This is FAST-Seduction, which discusses how to be a PLAYER. If you want to read about spirituality, I highly recommend that. I’ve studied buddhism and volumes of spiritual writings, as well as all of Western philosophy - but not on THIS forum. Still, strong innerpeace leads to strong inner-game, and its beneficial. Health, wealth, relationships -> go to the gym, eat right, find work you love, read important literature, surround yourself with people you love. ALL IMPORTANT to feeling good about yourself, which is important to pickup in ways that cannot even be adaquetely described through this limited cyber-medium.
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10 But yet, even HAVING those things, will you be a PLAYER? I know MANY people who have reached this level of enlightenment who are not. At the time that I was focusing on being genuine and building rapport, I was very much “emotionally whole”. I had everything going well for me in my life, and I was a genuinely happy person. I had goodwill towards everyone around me, and projected a positive vibe. This was great, but did not result in success with any exceptionally beautiful women. Anyway, that was MY EXPERIENCE after eight long months of field-testing this way of doing things. It’s just the experience of ONE GUY, so take it for what its worth.
SO, WHAT DO WOMEN WANT? I recall having a convo with Toecutter about his friend who would walk up to women, and tell them that he was rich and wanted to marry them. He would weave the story, work it, and sleep with them that night. Then he’d blow them off the next day, leaving them heartbroken. Now my first reaction to this was to be appalled. I questioned my respect for Toecutter, and generally wondered what he could possibly be thinking. How could he justify this sort of thing? He said that I was living in an AFC mindset, and that women LOVED “to have their hopes and dreams shattered by scoundrels like Han Solo” and such, and that it was something that they actually WANTED. He suggested that I read NANCY FRIDAY “My Secret Garden”, to read about women’s rape fantasies, and how repressive society has generated a common female fantasy for badboys who will break down their socially-taught resistance, and treat them like the “dirty” girls that deep down they know themselves to be. From reading the book, I interpreted it as saying that the guy tricking/forcing the girl into sex, and leaving her was the girl’s way of CONFIRMING that he was the kind of guy that she wants. (sort of to say that the jerk/badboy/untamable behaviour was some sort of CERTIFICATION that the girl has been fertalized by an alpha-seed, or something bizarre to that effect). Very weird, and disturbing. I did NOT like reading this, nor do I necessarily like it now. Basically, I interpreted that girls like DRAMA of ANY kind. They want INTENSE emotional drama. As Alphahot mentioned in a post a few threads below this one, they gravitate towards sources of extreme emotions. Scoundrels who use them and thus give them drama. And they gravitate towards it. Of course, I was skeptical, and even after reading Nancy Friday I still maintained the view that these fantasies were anomolies, and that most women did not want this sort of thing. Eddy also read this book, and shared my opinion. Be both generally hated it, and I recall Eddy throwing the book across the room several times. Other PUAs who visit us comment on how scuffed up the book is, as Eddy has thrown it literally on almost every occassion he’s read it, screaming “that could be my own mom!!! that could be my own mooooommmmmm!!!! ARGHHHHHH!!!”
FIELD TESTING NANCY FRIDAY: In California, I talked to Craig from the archives. He talked about Rick H, and how Rick would talk about women being adaptable. “Women are adaptable.. whatever frame you set, they’ll adapt to.. if you set a frame of provider candidate, they’ll adopt a screen frame.. if you set a frame of them being screened for dirty slutty lesbian sex, they’ll turn into sluts” Coming from Rick H, I couldn’t downplay this, and decided to explore it more. Particularly after the Toecutter/NancyFriday stuff seemed to gel with this. From this I spawned the idea for JERK ROUTINES, where I would INTENTIONALLY convey that I like to use and abuse women, right from the start of the pickup. The frame would be set. I set to the task of field testing it, which I did non-stop for six straight weeks before posting something potentially misleading.
First, I would do things like tell women to close their eyes, and then kiss them. Tell them that I love them within seconds of meeting, even though this is clearly a way to get into their pants. I would even tell subtle stories about how I am currently planning to use women to get to all their friends. Then, I adopted the SWINGCAT STYLE QUALIFYING. “Are you adventurous? Cause if you’re not adventurous, I can’t hang with you.” Up until the Nancy Friday test, I would get them to tell adventurous stories, like extreme sports or travelling or something. But then I REALIZED the TRUE use in the Swingcat adventurous qualifying. “Adventurous” was to be a EUPHIMISM for “SLUTTY”. I stopped getting them to tell me stories about adventures, and instead would just pause, and wait for them to give me the REAL DIRT. Around 90% of women would start telling me about how they love to suck dick and take it on the face. How they dream about getting gang-raped and fucked by strange men and hot guys from clubs.
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11 LITERALLY, I would sit there PRETENDING like I thought this was just great. Making myself out to be NON-JUDGEMENTAL, and even ENCOURAGING. But really, inside, I was thinking “shit I dunno if I can stomach this..” I was still in an AFC mindset. I thought that this was just a series of strange coincidences, and that these girls couldn’t represent the majority. I was forced to RE-ASSESS my VALUE SYSTEM for making judgements on what constituted a nice-girl, since clearly ALL girls had a “slut” side to them.
SIDENOTE: This was similar to my experience when I first tested routines based on spells and the unknown. I’d always thought that most girls didn’t believe in psychics and ESP, until I began making it sound like I did, and that I would not JUDGE them on it. I found out that most girls DID believe in ESP, and that those few who didn’t could be convinced otherwise with even the most simplistic mentalist illusion.
So much like the non-judgemental frame that use with the ESP stuff, I’d appear NON-JUDGEMENTAL for their “slutty” desires.
THE “NEW” TD: It was difficult for me, because I’ve always been extremely conservative/rightwing/republican. I changed my image to include wild clothes that projected myself as a badboy sexual being. I started wearing clothes of a female sex fantasy, such as racecar jackets, industrial plat boots, bondage shit, spikey dyed hair, outrageous coolguy accessories, etc etc. Initially, this was hard for me to stomach. I felt very incongruent for the first week or two. I began PROJECTING that I was a SCOUNDREL JERK who would intentionally and openly USE and ABUSE of women. I projected “TD is a jerk, who MAKES NO EXCUSES for it.. Like a rockstar, he fucks his groupies, and sends them home happy that they could get even that”. It’s funny, because this isn’t the case - I didn’t feel that way. But in the past, projecting the CONSERVATIVE REAL ME wasn’t eliciting any SEXUAL reaction from women. I decided that IF I CONTINUED DOING WHAT I HAD ALWAYS DONE, I’D CONTINUE TO GET THE RESULTS THAT I’D ALWAYS GOTTEN. (this isn’t my catchphrase.. maybe Tony Robbins, I dunno.. Mys uses it all the time). I know that CLOUD9 also has had inner-conflicts with this. For me, one of top students in my country, its been difficult to DEGENERATE my speaking manneurisms to a more colloquial level.. “like, you know, totally, like, cool...” But unfortunately, my “Queens-talk” (as everyone used to describe my articulate speaking manneurisms) wasn’t eliciting strong sexual responses from the sexy girls that I was interested in. They wanted to validate themselves with me, sure. But what they wanted to validate was that they could be as sophisticated as me. IOW, that they’re smart, and that they’re ladies. So go ahead and bust on me for being incongruent and not real to myself or something like that. But at the end of the day my girlfriend is an HB10... aside also from the HB8 and HB8.5 that I am also seeing, all of who are really cool girls and who I am genuine with now, AFTER having gotten with them - NOT BEFORE. WOMEN’S REACTIONS: Now, when I walk into a room on campus, women start giggling and checking me out. They touch me, shit test me immediately to see if I really AM what I project, and show massive physical IOIs (face me, lean in, perk up their breasts, lick their lips, big eyes, etc etc etc). I do NOTHING other than just walk into the room, and convey the attitude that’s discussed in this post. “I will fuck you the second you let your guard down, because I am a badboy and that’s just me” is the image that I convey, and women respond instantly. Of course, MOST women will be initially ATTRACTED, but still won’t sleep with me from that feeling alone. They can’t quite justify their desire, because of social-conditioning. So the SOLUTION: Show that they have a CHANCE to tame you, and that you have a sensitive inside somewhere deep down.. -> GET RAPPORT. This leads me to the all important .........
WILLFUL COGNITIVE DISSONANCE: Going back to the TOECUTTER “marry-me” routine, what have I learned? Toecutter explained that women WILLFULLY IGNORE the truth, in order to preserve the feelings that they are deriving from the massive drama that you provide. This is also from MANIAC_HIGH, so if you disagree then maybe check out the new maniac plan for more detailed explication.
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12 Anyway, Toecutter states that the girls who were “duped” by the marriage trick were in fact WELL-AWARE that it was clearly bullshit, but that they WANTED to go along with it, so that they could experience the ADVENTURE. The same goes for Mystery’s girlfriend of 5 years, who STILL BELIEVES that he genuinely has MAGIC POWER, including an ability to levitate himself from the ground, move objects with his mind, and read thoughts telepathically. Of course, having been with him for 5 years, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that she wouldn’t have figured out how he does his illusions. Despite his sharp skills, many illusions I figured out after hanging with him for just a month. He may have done it over 300 times before I figured it out, but EVENTUALLY I DID figure it out. This girl is with him FIVE YEARS and CHOOSES TO BELIEVE THAT THE WORLD IS NOT MUNDANE. There is NO WAY she wouldn’t have caught the illusion at least ONE TIME in FIVE YEARS. She WILLFULLY DECEIVES HERSELF to believe what she wants, because she likes the DRAMA and ADVENTURE. Same goes with Mystery’s other long term girlfriends, who KNOW, read KNOW, that he is constantly with other women. Why does Mystery have condoms all over his room? hmmmmmm... Could he really go months without sex while he travels??? hmmmmm.... What does it mean when girls call him non-stop while they’re in bed together??? hmmmmm... He walks into the club and girls SWARM him... hmmmmmm.. He picked her up and fucked her first night they met... hmmmm.... But still they CHOOSE to IGNORE it, because he provides the drama that they want. And as a BONUS, they get to go home and spend time convincing their parents and friends how great Mystery is, which gives them even MORE drama. Likewise, in my small community, I go pickup girls. They go back to their roomates, who inevitably on some occassions will have been picked up by me a month earlier. But does that REPEL them from me, like our LOGICAL AFC-INDOCTRINATED brains would have so long expected? NOPE. It just gives them MORE DRAMA and sucks them in even deeper. This was even the case when they’ve heard that I used the SAME OPENERS and ROUTINES. Strange, huh? You’d think that it would break their interest. But not the case. Why not? Could it be that finding out that I am a womanizing-“jerk” was congruent with what I projected during the pickup?
SOME CONCLUSIONS - A RE-ASSESSMENT OF WHAT CONSTITUTES A WOMAN’S VALUE: So that’s it. I get it now. Women aren’t like what I thought. Or rather, at least when it comes to SEX. The girls that I thought were ‘nice’ have revealed that they’ve been fucked by anonymous guys, loved it, and want it again. The girls that I thought were LOYAL to their boyfriends have called them from my bed, GUILT-FREE, lying about where they were last night like it was NOTHING. I’ve found that girls break guys into categories of SEDUCERS and EMOTIONAL SUPPORTERS, and that if I don’t want my girl to cheat on me, she’s gonna have to get her drama from ME, and not from some asshole player. So if that is the case then, what kind of girl do I look for when I’m ready to have children or get married?
IN LIGHT OF THIS KNOWLEDGE, WHAT CONSTITUTES A GOOD WOMAN??? I am still deciding on this, and really I have only limited insights. But for me, at this time, I use NON-AFC-CULTURE based value judgements. I look at the kind of connection that I have with her, and the way that we get along AFTER we’ve “hooked-up”. Because, like Mystery, I agree that only AFTER you hookup do you start communicating GENUINELY. The FIRST genuine conversation happens in bed together, AFTER THE GAME IS OVER, and you find out whether or not this was just a validation-game, or if its an emotional connection. And do I necessarily want the games? Nope. I remember when I first did clubs, and I’d tease a high calibre HB. Say a 9 or 10. And she’d touch me, and say that she liked me. But as soon as I’d RECIPROCATE that, she’d LOSE INTEREST. It was a SHIT TEST, NOT genuine communication. Or was it? Was it genuinely communicating that she wanted to see if I was really the jerk she wanted me to be, and that she had to test me to find out? Do shit tests constitute genuine communication? The girl is tricking you, to find your true nature. But then, if you pass, you genuinely will hookup with her. So is the girl genuine, or not? Not necessarily an easy question to answer. YES, I have MANY genuine emotional connections with girls. My sister, her friends, my pivots, my relatives, my teachers. The girls that I am ALREADY with •
my 3 MLTRS.
But NOT with girls that I am in the MIDST of picking up, because it is still GAME-ON.
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13 Afterwards, once I have PROVEN myself to be the kind of man that she wants, I can get to know her on a more personal and genuine level. Until then, it is about SEXUAL ATTRACTION, which is NOT necessarily related to genuine communication. It CAN be, but it isn’t necessarily the case. And why? Because there are several types of attraction, and while we may make socially based value judgements on which are more legitimate, the fact remains that they EXIST. And of course, if genuine communication in the TRADITIONAL SENSE was the BASIS of ATTRACTION, then I suppose I’d probably be hooked up with the very fat and ugly girl from my history class, with whom I had a great conversation with last fall. But then, the attractive girls I bed will most often BACKWARDS RATIONALIZE whatever nice things she finds out about me, and probably decide that THOSE things were CLEARLY what allowed her to be seduced by me. Of course that’s all after the fact. Contingencies. This is how the game is played bros, at least in my personal opinion. Just the opinion of a new PUA, trying to make sense of all of this. Some of it is probably dead-on, and some of its probably inaccurate. Take it for what its worth.
WHAT IS GENUINE? So if people play these games, what constitutes genuine? What is genuine? If I were to be TRULY genuine with what I wanted to talk to girls about, I’d discuss logic and other esoteric philosophical issues. I’d discuss cars, and mechanics, and sports, and wars, and taking extreme risks and my criminal youth. I’d discuss how I’m right-wing and how I believe in certain repressive traditional values. I’d discuss John Rawls vs. Robert Nozick.. I’d discuss Heideger and Nietzche and Sartre, and subjective morality in a world without dogmatic value sources. I’d discuss Kripke and causal theory. I’d discuss flaws in symbolic notation. This stuff FASCINATES me. I don’t LIKE talking about social dynamics and feelings. It BORES me. Most things that most girls like to talk about are of NO INTEREST to me. I DO NOT ENJOY running JUGGLER’s rapport routines like “I really like pizza” and “this is what my own palm says about me” and “what would your life be rated if it was a movie?”, and making those kind of self-revealing statements. Nor would I like them any better had I invented them. Or rather, I LIKE running them, for the purpose of PICKING UP. But I don’t run them for the SOLE SAKE of running them. I will USE this stuff, but I don’t LIKE it anymore than ANY OTHER stuff that I use. NONE of it is the “REAL ME” in the TRADITIONAL SENSE, so both MM and Juggler method are EQUAL in my mind. I AM NOT stating that they don’t work, or that Juggler’s method isn’t GREAT. Juggler-method WORKS - its GREAT. But I AM stating that it is NO MORE GENUINE for me to PRETEND that I am enjoying talking about real genuine feelings in a Jugglerstyle that I really don’t care to talk about, than it is for me to run the routines that I do most of the time now. Either way, I’m FAKING SOMETHING. As are MOST sensitive new aged guys who will talk about this sappy crap, in the subconscious hope that it will gain attention from women. Picking up by talking about real stuff that I feel, but DO NOT want to be talking about, is of no greater value to me than telling stories that I read from the internet. I’m still being ungenuine, in a SENSE, because my motivations extend BEYOND the expression itself. Again, this is NO CRITICISM OF JUGGLER. His stuff ROCKS. My sole statement though is that it is NO MORE OR LESS GENUINE for me to run one pickup style, or another. They are all equal in that respect. So what if I just talked about things I AM interested in talking about. The esoteric technical stuff. Well if I talk about these things girls will leave. They’ll either argue, get bored, or flat walk away. They won’t be interested, and they’ll anchour feelings of boredom to me. I’ve TESTED this. Why? Basic supply and demand. There are many genuine and confident people out there, and some give them better emotions than others. So I “set the bait” with the stuff that they’ll react to sexually. Of course you could cry ‘supplication!’, but then really we all supplicate ourselves in one way or another. The trapper supplicates by laying bait, but then he reaps the rewards later. Putting in work to get a result is not supplication. And let’s say that being “myself” DID find me that ONE special girl.. I STILL wouldn’t care, because I’m not INTERESTED in that kind of relationship in my early twenties anyway. SO: Is REFUSING to play games genuine? If that’s the case, then WHY have I SO RARELY had a girl angry or upset with me? I mean, even after NUMEROUS relationships, have I had less problems than my average AFC friend with just a handful. Many people probably QUESTION why I would pawn off 2 HB7s to pickup a HB9 or 10. Rightly so. But what they don’t realize from behind their remote computer screens is that so long as you ACTIONS ARE CONGRUENT TO YOUR BADBOY FRAME, girls will EXPECT this behaviour, and NEVER be surprised when it happens. It’s part of who you are, and they’re SMART enough to know its coming.
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14 Even with the bit of rapport that they NEED to justify their embarkment on your adventure, they still KNOW what is coming, and ACCEPT IT. I’ll have girls that I never called back, or pawned off for hotter girls, ALWAYS coming over to chat me and catch up. They’re never upset. Always very happy to see me again. In my opinion, there is a clear cut reason -> While my sexual persona may not be as congruent with my real personality as I’d like, my ACTIONS are CONGRUENT with what I PROJECT. Since the girls I associate with KNOW and EXPECT that its going to be a short-lived ADVENTURE (given that I’ve made it fully obvious from the start), they NEVER get genuinely upset when it ends. Sure, they may pout briefly, but then they’re off to the NEXT STIMULUS - be it the next socially-proofed jerk, or dancing, or drinks. On the other hand, back when I used to be the LOYAL-AFC, when I’d dump the few girls I got they’d get VERY UPSET. Which makes me think: Is it more genuine to build connections where you project that you are a more quiet one-girl type, when that is not you (even if you state polyamory, you still come-off that way). Or is it more genuine to be a jerk up front, and allow the chick to FREELY CHOOSE to go along for the short-adventure or not. I guess we have to come to our own answers, and find our own subjective value systems. That’s life. I don’t judge. Call it aggrandized self-rationalization, but this is just the way that I make sense of the world that I’ve been thrown into, given my life experiences and how I’ve assimilated them. The interactions with the women in my life ARE genuine, but during the initial phases of our relationship - the period where the FRAME is BARGAINED for and ESTABLISHED - I strive to convey that there are only CERTAIN parameters that I am comfortable with. And making it obvious that I am only a short-lived adventure for them, through the jerk-way that I present myself, is the way that I go about doing it. Once the pact is made (sex), I’m comfortable to be fully myself. Discuss what I want, etc etc.. And the girls are ALWAYS happy to discuss stuff that is important to me AFTER we’ve had sex, because she’s made that investment in me, and NOW FINALLY wants to know more about who I am. I fully believe that as a sexual-partner-candidate, you are NOTHING to a girl before you’ve had sex. Or rather, you may be a friend. But that entitles you to nothing sexually. Nor should it. -BECOMING CONGRUENT: When taking a job-interview, you’ll present yourself in a particular way. During a family gathering, it may be another way. And with your friends, it may be another way. Everyone has different SIDES to their personality, and each judges when it is APPROPRIATE to exhibit a particular side. Why not “just be yourself” at ALL times? Because EACH of these sides ARE the “real you”, just different aspects. Acting the SAME in ALL situations is INCONSIDERATE to the people around you. If you horse around at a job interview, you show lack of respect for the interviewer’s experience. If you act overly sophisticated with your friends, you show lack of respect for the bond that you have with them, and the clowning-around that goes along with it. And as with the boss at the job interview, you hope to eventually get to know your girl on a more “genuine” level, when the time is APPROPRIATE. When INITIALLY PICKING UP A GIRL, showing the side of yourself that ELICITS SEXUAL REACTION is MOST APPROPRIATE, because you are not putting the girl in a position where she has to snub you based on sexual indifference to your approach. You don’t like it that most girls like to party? TO BAD. Don’t post about it on the PLAYER board. Being unsexual during pickup can be UNAPPROPRIATE. The girls that I pickup CLEARLY KNOW that I am someone who is TOYING with them, that it gives them drama that they like, and that our relationship will likely be short-lived. It is OBVIOUS, because at this point I am THAT GOOD. Women are no more in the dark about my nature than men are about women with fake breasts. They KNOW what’s up, but they DON’T CARE. And REALLY, these had been my intentions ALL ALONG. I am young, want to PARTY, and am not interested in actively seeking anything beyond a sexual connection at this point. Should it happen – GREAT. But I’m not SEEKING it. So why did I try to gain sexually via rapport and connections in the past? Solely for PRAGMATIC reasons. I thought that it would WORK. So was I really congruent before? NO. I was just CONFORMING, and hadn’t the NERVE to show my intentions. Also, I didn’t REALIZE that my intentions WERE NOT EVIL. Women APPRECIATE these kinds of guys, and you BENEFIT when you openly demonstrate that you are that guy – making no excuses for it. While AT FIRST I felt INCONGRUENT, I later realized that in fact I HAD BECOME congruent. I began PROJECTING the sort of image that was congruent with my INTENTIONS, and girls were reacting better, and never showing unpleasant surprises as in they had in the past. My act of pre-planning and studying lines and tactics to project my badboy image IS CONGRUENT with who I am, because who I am is someone whose intentions are to interact with women in this way.
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15 They enjoy it. I enjoy it. They benefit. I benefit. We MUTUALLY benefit. I am now congruent. I feel good for it. If you want to judge it, go ahead. Just don’t claim that your philosophy has any superiority over any other subjective valuejudgement, because it is just that. A subjective value judgement. -CONCLUSION: So there you have it. Many chicks dig jerk-asshole types. Who ever said that the community never makes new discoveries anyway? hmmmmm.... And what is genuine? What is truth? Those questions are to be pondered over a lifetime, and they are part of what makes the human experience dynamic. But if I can draw one solid conclusion, its that claiming absolute knowledge of such questions is self-indulgent. And in the opinion of this lowly-PUA, its not genuine. I see the guys who took the Juggler workshop didn’t really agree with some points (heh, I was waiting for this!).. I think that you guys really took them out of context, so I’ll clarify and you can let me know.. 1)
My CONVEY HIGHER VALUE phase (first few minutes of initial PU) is the main place that canned material is ever used. I’ve been saying rapport, rapport, rapport for ages now, but for some reason people ignore this. It’s in all my posts, but like I said, comes AFTER you’ve conveyed higher value. The Juggler method, which is keep opening up yourself to her until she reciprocates it is UNNCESSARY for me, because if I get her attracted FAST then she’ll be all into my shit, and it doesn’t matter.
2) 3) 4)
I make up all my own routines from life experience, which btw IS Juggler method. I will post what Juggler method IS above this thread, so you guys can discuss it. The only routines I’ve ever posted that didn’t come from life experience are cocky lines. I pull mostly HB9s, and have so much opportunity to pull that I turn down many girls. None of my results correlate to any short-comings in my game, since my results are excellent right now. I have tried EVERY tactic in the game for at least 3 straight weeks. I have pulled using no material whatsoever, and have pulled using GWM. I can pull using even SS. Incidentally SexPDX, one thing that I really recommend is learning to pull using EVERY method, because if you haven’t pulled using it, then you can’t understand it (since ALL methods will work at least enough to pull once in a while). So the C&F stuff, etc, can’t really be understood until you’ve pulled with it at least once or twice, because then you can accurately assess why it worked, and why it may not have been as good without.
5)
What I posted was that generating discussion that is designed to keep the girl’s attention is the SAME to me, no matter HOW I do it. Why? Because no matter what I talk about, its designed to keep her attention and lead to fclose. So I can talk about boring stuff that I don’t like “I like pizza, I like kids” etc etc, or I can talk about jerk stuff I did and tease. EITHER WAY I’m trying to force a frame that gets her attention, then gets her in bed. This issue of “be genuine” and all that is not something that affects my game, and I get better results by going with the frames discussed in the original post. Anyway, thanks for the feedback and generating discussion. I’ll post up the Juggler method above this thread, which we could discuss it up there if you want. What’s up PDX.. I just posted the Juggler method post, which I hope you’ll discuss with me because its something that I’m interested in. I was just thinking more about this, and I think that it comes down to style. There are many ways to attract. Being a guy that girls can connect with is one way. (Juggler) Being a cocky badboy type is another way. (TD) Being a Don Juan romancer is another way. (SS) Being larger than life centre of attention is another way. (MM)
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16 Being a raw sexual being is another way. (GWM) I’ve tried each of them, but since being a cocky-ass muthafucka is most congruent to MY personality, it works for ME. For guys reading, they should focus on what THEY identify with, and work on that. I guess that my original post was about my own level of congruence. Also, focusing on projecting a personality that would attract the attention that YOU WANT. One thing that I DON’T like is that people will take ONE method, and not test ALL methods. At the same time, I get annoyed when guys will feedback “this isn’t how to pickup.. this isn’t genuine for me to use” It’s like ‘ummm dude.. I just post how I do pickup because its ONE WAY.. I never said to COPY ME’ Instead, when I read methods that conflict with how I pickup, I just go test them and try to understand how/why they work.. Then I’ll discard alot of it, and keep alot of it. Still, I’ll acknowledge that its good material, because it opened my mind up to different ideas. So to me, I think that dudes shouldn’t criticize something if its working, and people from the board have seen it work (IOW, its not bullshitting). I’m NOT referring to you btw PDX.. I think that the SOLUTION is for people to reply by posting what works for THEM, and to let the guys on the board decide for themselves what they want to IDENTIFY with.. Pick your own character.. Sort of like Street Fighter II.. or just try them all, and then design your own.
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NEW AGE MALE This isn’t something that I claim any expertise on. Still, thought I’d comment on some trends I’ve noticed. Just some observations that are probably half-right, so comments appreciated. Back in the day (say 70s, 80s), the rugged man was really well appreciated. Guys didn’t shave their bodies, and the looks standard wasn’t based around pretty-boys who look basically like chicks. These days it seems like girls are more modernized or something, and don’t really need to be dependent on anyone (where I’m from anyway). So they seem to prefer little pretty boys who are “just for fun” and don’t threaten them in any way. Girls are very bi-sexual these days. In fact, I’ve gotten 3/4s of the girls I’m dating to eventually spill the beans that they fantasize about other girls, and most hot girls like to grind eachother in clubs and make out, etc etc. The hotter the girl, the more open she is to this kind of thing - typically. The guys girls like have female characteristics. Pickup any magazine and check out the male models. They’re all Scandanavian looking or whatever, with the high cheek bones and all that. They look borderline like girls. Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, etc, all look basically like girls. Their entire bodies are clean-shaven (I don’t do that, but girls don’t find out until its too late to object), and they have the high cheek bones and feminine features. Anyway, I’ve been experimenting with projecting a highly gay image to girls, where I get in under the radar and seem “super fun”, but meanwhile convey massive sexuality and cockiness through standard game tactics. I get alot of girls kissing me and begging me to find out if I’m gay. I’ve had girls try to convert me, by asking me to sleep with them, etc etc. Basically, you know how girls seem to think it “doesn’t count”, if they sleep with another woman? They seem to view sex with me in a similar way. It’s like, it doesn’t count. It’s “just for fun”, or whatever. This goes especially for clubs, where the girls don’t want the hot guys approaching them, because they supposedly don’t want to meet a guy in a club (bullshit). So when you roll up like you’re a super fun eccentric possibly gay, they’ll talk to you and have all this fun. The rule in clubs is kinda like “girls don’t snub girls”. This is for safety reasons or what-have-you. So if you’re basically a chick, they won’t snub you when you go in. But since your game is super tight from all the ASF you read, and you have a million ways of attracting, you’re in under the radar, and the girls get all wet. Remember that this is beyond their control to a certain extent, and girls get attracted even to other girls, when the girls make them feel the right way (I have lesbian friends who seduce women ALL THE TIME, very effectively because they UNDERSTAND other women). Meanwhile, you’re like one of the girls, and its “just for fun”, like sexing another chick. So things progress very quickly. Also, I won’t name names (but he could pipe in), but possibly the most well respected/known PUA on this board is MASSIVELY gay looking, and when I met him I was utterly convinced he was gay. He wrote to me that girls usually tell him even after they’ve had sex, that they’re convinced he’s gay. I remember meeting him - he was 5’7, 120 pounds, bald, and talked completely gay. Also dressed peacocky, so he looked very gay. But since he’s fun, cocky, intelligent, charismatic, and alpha (plus he’s great at building rapport), he lays the hottest women extremely consistently. Remember: It’s not like totally gay. It’s like super fun, but with gay fashion and topics (social dynamics, etc) that usually only queer guys talk about. Plus, being “super fun”. But yet, you’re still ALPHA. You STILL use Gunwitch Method style phase shifting, and C&F stuff. The girls have to still get all wet. Anyway, something to experiment with. A good tip is that when girls ask you if you’re gay, that’s a good IOI. A good reaction is to grab her head and kiss her, immediately after she asks. Say “I dunno, let’s see” Point is not to be “gay looking”, but to use the fact that girls will go bi-sexual and think it “doesn’t count”, as a way to get under the radar. For me also, I was so NON-GAY that trying my best to BE gay probably got me down just enough to not be abrasive. For other guys who are more secure with themselves than I was in the past, they may be already at the “optimal just gay enough” level. Gunwitch, given that I do my pickup mostly in clubs now (since I’ve finally got daytime so down well that it bores me), please dont’ comment on my threads anymore unless its to give props or relate it to something non-club. The reason I say this is that you don’t do clubs whatsoever, and you therefore have no valuable input on anything that I write that is club related. Notice that you find clubs a bad environment to pull? They’re actually not, so clearly the things you do don’t work in clubs. You admit this, and its not a criticism. I’m only saying it in relation to my threads. Oh yeah, as for the guys you mentioned, the only one who I don’t think was actually VERY feminine is Russel Crowe. But most girls didn’t even like him until the movie “Gladiator”. Maybe not Clooney, I dunno, but definetely Brad Pitt and Colin Ferrel. So that’s how I figure it, but again I’m not an expert on this stuff. As for me, I actually grew up very much the “man’s man”, as a hustler getting in fights every week and protecting my rep at all costs. I used to clown on the guys I’m talking about, but still was secretly deep down jealous that they got girls. I definetely agree that girls actually DO long for the man’s man, but unfortunately are often too scared to actually have SEX with him (despite wanting to) until they’re older. I find young girls to be the most desirable, and therefore focus all my posts on only what I personally consider to be the hottest girls.
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TOO ALPHA – OVERQUALIFICATION LATE NIGHT RAMBLINGS - anyone who can’t stomach them stop reading now, because I’m too tired to post properly. (just got back from the most eye-opening PU night I’ve ever had.. I’ve been up all night.. I will post on this in “Advanced” tommorow.. alpha heirarchy’s and structures.. subconsious behaviours, etc etc)
The reason that C&F will serve to alienate the chick, if you keep it up too long, is that your end result is not congruent with the image that you project. OK, make sense? Nope, it doesn’t.. More explanation. You roll in there, and you pull the C&F. Next thing you know, the chick is asking you about yourself, touching you, licking her lips, big pupils............ ITS ON. But you try to close, and it won’t go. So why the fuck not? Here’s why: When you come in C&F like you are the prize, the chick becomes massively attracted and stupidly wet... of course, common sense tells you that ITS ON. So of course you try to close, except this is NOT CONGRUENT with what you just projected as this larger-than-life guy. You just blew in there larger than life.. but you’re not appreciating that because its just YET ANOTHER tactic of the week that you read from ASF.. thing is dude, never... Never.... NEVER..... NEVER underestimate how POWERFUL the C&F frame is... NOBODY says shit like that.. trust me, chicks have NEVER seen guys drop the kind of lines that we talk about on ASF.. some guys may have the balls, but they don’t have the SEQUENCED humour and OUTRAGEOUSNESS of the lines that we study here. (OK fuck its 6am and I just got back home, I’m damned tired.. is this making sense???) Alright, the reason that this isn’t congruent is that you came in like YOU are the prize, so WHY would you now be trying to take an interest in LOWLY HER??? You’ve conveyed SUCH higher value, that she can see NO REASON that you’d want a stupid bimbo like HER. So subconsciously, she deduces that you aren’t really as cool-guy as you seem, and the sarge DIES. The SOLUTION is RAPPORT TACTICS and POLAR SHIFTING (superslicka’s term). After she starts shooting IOIs, STOP THE C&F and go RAPPORT. • • • • •
Divulge VULNERABILITIES and SECRETS. Tell her about things that you need to overcome, and HELP her to help you to over come them, so that she can EARN your interest. Show your HUMANITY. Be larger than life to get her WET and wanting to get rapport and connection with YOU......... but then let her HAVE IT. Be YOURSELF.... GENUINE. Don’t TRY to PU her. Just let her meet this amazing guy that’s right in front of her, and help her to get to know him for who he really is. That way its CONGRUENT. Don’t stage this phase, because you WANT it to seem less than perfect. Less than perfect IS perfect, because its perfectly the REAL YOU. Someone that she can RELATE with.
Ask yourself, out of my last 10 sarges, how many of them CONNECTED and RELATED to me? How many of them left feeling really good about meeting me, and really good about themselves? Did they feel like we “clicked”? Did I feel any connection? Was there a reason for us to meet again other than just raw sexual desire (which MOST chicks will flake if that’s the only reason, except for party-chicks or older chicks). **C&F is a tool to GAIN ATTRACTION/INTEREST. It conveys HIGHER VALUE. **If you have conveyed HIGHER VALUE, then there should be NOTHING MORE NECESSARY to complete the sarge, other than rapport and connection. **If you have conveyed higher value PROPERLY, the chick should HELP you to pick her up. SHE will pick up dropped conversations, and SHE will make it easy for you to connect, since she is trying to connect with YOU, since people naturally try to connect with others that have a value that is higher than their own. **C&F is NOT a tool to close ANY girl other than a hyper-obnoxious party chick. **RAPPORT and CONNECTION and GENUINE BEHAVIOUR is what makes the girl fall for you, and give herself to you physically. **Once attraction is obvious, do NOT continue to press with C&F or you will ALIENATE the chick from you. **Sprinkle in a LITTLE C&F as the convo goes, but MOSTLY keep rapport. If you DO opt to sprinkle it on, do it in a tender-loving way, where its cute and not antagonistic. **Do NOT go BACK to full C&F once you are in rapport. You cannot regain attraction by returning to C&F. I have lost over contless solid sarges to this INSECURE behaviour. **Do NOT underestimate yourself, or be INSECURE. NEVER underestimate the POWER of C&F (at least, the type of over-the-top shit that I run... telling them to support you, and that they can’t hang with you, and that they’re dork powerpuff girls, bad girls/bratty little sister and all of a sudden your “new girlfriend”.... etc etc). This shit is extremely potent, and if you use too much you will blow your sarge to SMITHERINES.... :) It’s like using a rocket launcher to hunt squirrels.
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19 The reason that you may be inclined to overuse C&F is because you are INSECURE with yourself. The reason that I know this is that I am often insecure with MYSELF, and when I feel this way I use too much C&F. A REAL MAN who is self-secure does not need to keep pushing and pushing the envelope, because he self-secure enough to not need to continually try to convey higher value. REALIZE that you convey higher-value very easily now that you are more experienced, and don’t alienate yourself from the chick by going overboard. Once higher-value is overdone, you LOSE the chick, because she cannot conceive of a guy who is that larger-than-life wanting HER. OR, she realizes that you are TRYING TOO HARD, and loses interest. REGARDLESS of WHICH way that she smells a rat ..... 12-
That a guy who seems this great would want HER. That you are trying too hard.
.....you LOSE the chick. OK, bedtime. Hope that helped dude. This was a major sticking point for me for about 6 straight weeks. Superslicka has the same SP, and its something that is a good problem to have (in terms that its better than not conveying ENOUGH value), but something that you MUST overcome if you want to lay alot of chicks. more thoughts on this: structure of a sarge: 1) 2) 3) 4)
open convey HIGHER VALUE rapport & connection close
Once you’ve conveyed HIGHER VALUE (often using C&F), the chick will do the work to pursue the conversation usually. Be SELF SECURE. If you have conveyed higher value, and are now in rapport phase, don’t be afraid of SILENCE if the convo dies for a sec. Should the convo die, do NOT try to grasp at thin air, trying to re-engage it. JUST SIT THERE LOOKING HER STRAIGHT IN THE EYES, AND SAY NOTHING. This is POWERFUL, as it conveys MASSIVE SELF ESTEEM AND SELF SECURITY. It’s also an “awkward pause” (as called on ‘Seinfeld’) which is a great chance to do a finger-through-hair kiss test, and kiss her. Run 80%/20% convo AT FIRST to convey HIGHER VALUE, but then once you have that, the CHICK should be doing most of the work in the convo, and it should be at least 50%/50% People naturally try to connect and get rapport with those who have higher value than they do. Get GOOD at conveying higher value within 1-10 minutes (it takes me usually 1-2 minutes, if not 30 seconds using peacocking, the spin-maneuvre, and maybe 1-2 C&F lines) Then the chicks will pick YOU up. more more more..... I can’t sleep.... my brain thinks too much... HELP!! C&F is great for disarming SHIT TESTS. Chicks throw up shit tests to see if you are the real deal or not... or who knows why.. who cares, they do it all the time, especially when you’re starting to try to initiate a PU. They do this to guys who attract them, so its a good sign. It also creates DRAMA. Having a chick go from HATING you to LOVING you in the course of 20 minutes is POWERFUL. It pushes her through massive states. You’ve tested eachother, and found eachother WORTHY. But the thing is, once they are trying to get rapport (what’s your name, etc etc), STOP with the C&F (unless party-chick). This C&F stuff is great, but don’t forget that you are somewhat DISSING the chick. If the chick goes home to her friends, and all that she can say about this guy who she gave her # to is that you dissed her up left and right, then you are FUCKED because she will work herself OUT OF STATE and FLAKE on you. When she goes to get back together with you (or move into isolation, if you’re going for same day close), then she should have POSITIVE thoughts about you.
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20 C&F is ONLY to INDUCE AROUSAL. The PURPOSE of C&F (as a tool) is to AROUSE CHICKS. Its purpose is NOT to make the chick LIKE you as a person. It just conveys higher value, because it IMPLICITLY SOCIAL PROOFS YOU. By being C&F, you convey: • • • • •
I I I I I
get am am am am
so many chicks, I could care less if you don’t like this cause I’ll get laid either way by someone else willing to walk funny as hell (intelligence -> good genetics) cocky as hell (success, alpha -> good genetics) the most $$$ muthafucka you’ve ever met
So the C&F gets her INTEREST, but NOT her heart. What gets her heart is HUMANITY. ALSO, what KEEPS her interest is SEXUALITY and COMPOSURE. Being JAMES BOND.
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THE NEXT LEVEL You’ll notice that when you’re totally comfortable with girls, they pickup on it and are keen to stay and chat you if you are interesting. You’ll do the 25 points type stuff, without realizing it, and you’ll come off more playful and therefore appealing. It’s a snowball effect. Some thoughts.. •
Don’t be afraid of canned openers. They free you up to focus on the important stuff like bodylanguage, tonality, approach angles, set logistics, and target assessment.
Also uncommonly known is that the better canned openers contain particular elements that are designed to fool chick’s screening process. That’s why they work. At the same time, its great that you’re going freeflow. It will hone a skillset for you in the future. •
If you have time or interest, read what I’ve posted recently about kino and escalation. Particularly the stuff about getting tonguedowns, kino pinging, and increasing physical stuff.
The thing I posted recently about using doing the massage type thing, by walking your fingers from her spine to her shoulders, and massaging down her traps, is honestly one of the tightest kino moves I know of. Like I have girls saying they’re in love with me when I do it, and fully primed for tonguedown. Also try placing your palms out (upwards), and getting kino going. Do this as a REWARD and use takeaways. Don’t be pushy, but rather verbally game them to want it, and then let them win. •
Try pursuing every # you get as hard as you can. I know that guys don’t like this, and its not always the best idea, but until you get massive day2 experience under your belt, you won’t be getting laid as much as you can, because most lays come on day 2 (ignore what people say, this is agreed on by the best in the scene, but they just won’t post it). No matter how attracted to you a girl is, its common that she’ll forgoe sex until the next day, because she doesn’t want to destroy her reputation in front of her friends. Most girls are “we come together, and we leave together”. Many will still leave same night though, which leads me to.....
•
While most lays come on day2, FOCUS HARD on trying to extract and lay EVERY set that you approach. Until you’ve done at least 10-15 same night lays, you won’t fully understand the dynamics of pulling same night. Try to fool’s mate girls until you learn how.
I say this because of all the group tactics that are posted, they ASSUME that you have the skillset to instantly seduce any girl that you’re left alone with. They assume a powerful phase shift, and late game. •
Attempt to venue change or move every set around the club. Do this by just jutting your arm out for her to grab, and then moving her. This way you can localize the emotional buying signs of girls who are comfortable/intoyou enough to physically displace themselves with you.
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DEVELOPMENTAL MAP OF A PUA It is recommended that new guys learn material and routines because they are usually unable to hold conversations with women, and by creating a consistent 40 minute set they will get experience interacting with women on cold approaches. Without creating a set, it is unlikely that majority of newer guys will have much success, because their lack of experience will be very apparent to the girls. They will convey many social cues that will indicate this to the girls. Even for myself, I can tell a guys' success levels within 2-3 minutes of meeting him, and the girls are even more intuitive on this topic. So what winds up happening, is that inexperienced guys wind up going up to girls, and saying "Hi, what's your name? Where are you from? Umm, so yeah, what are you up to?" This, combined with hundreds of little vocal inflections/pacings/projections and bodylanguage cues, will usually add up to the girl instinctually blowing the poor newbie very quickly. That's because the newbie has no value either in subcommunicative expression, or in what he's saying being interesting. By using routines and high energy levels, guys learn to hold sets, and will gain experience under their belts. Because the material is field tested as being high octane, they will hold sets in spite of their poor inner game and its external bodylanguage and vocal manifestations. Within a few weeks, they will see spuratic success (albeit mental masterbation, but this is fine so long as internally they feel good about it) and on a subconscious level their inner game will improve and this will improve things on an external level. At this point, though they may or may not realize it, they no longer require routines or material to hold sets. Moreover, they were likely using as a crutch a very high energy level in sets in order to hold their attention. This is a common learning of newbies, that a high energy and an intense enthuasm level in sets will hold the girls' attention. With time, their tonality will even out and become smoother. Their projection will increase and their vocal inflections will hit spikes at the right times and they'll come across better. Their bodylanguage will naturally take up more space, and their facial expressions will react differently to shit tests and to escalations than they did previously. On the non-verbal level, their social intelligence will increase, and they will become sharper with their humour, and more savvy as to what constitutes something that adds energy to the interaction versus something that is a manifestation of their insecurity or neediness (which many people don't realize is something that they subcommunicate with so much of what they say - 95%+ of people screw this up at some point during the interaction). And as that all gets better, they will be thrown into situations where the interaction escalates, and without experience most guys will botch this sort of scenario. Game is often a sort of hyper attention. A situation where the energy level in the interaction heats up. Chemistry, passion, etc.. The sorts of things that lead to the desired end goal. For newer guys, the energy of the situation will often be a lot to handle, without the experience. They will field it improperly, because they will either fail to maintain eye contact (this happens surprisingly often during late phases and even now with top level girls I sometimes feel the social pressure getting to me), or they will stutter and be unable to slow down the tempo and smoothly gear everything down to properly phase shift. They will fall backwards in the schedule, and their internal incongruencies will come to the surface. Many will eject and rationalize that they didn't want to anyway, to retain their satisfaction that they got further than they previously did. The window to phase shift and go sexual has closed, and will never be opened again. But with time this will change also. Everything will become congruent, and the snowball of social success both with women and in general will begin to increase and will finally gel into something worthwhile. This all comes from experience, and there's nothing that I know of that will achieve this level of transformation other than experience. Intense experience, to be exact. That means enough repetition that the increase is inevitable. Having made this kind of transformation, guys will not need to use a high energy level or even material to hold a set. It will come naturally, because they will subcommunicate higher social value. People possess a natural tendency to gravitate towards those with high social status. We feel the energy of their presence. On a subconscious level, we know that they exert a large degree of social control, and that they have influence over our existence whether we like it or not. When in the room with even a B-Class celebrity, most people will feel a sort of nervousness, whether they like it or not. They will be likely to socialize with them regardless of how interesting they are, because they're just curious to see how they might benefit. These kinds of guys don't need much to hold attention. But even without this status, the average guy can learn to subcommunicate the same things. BE the guy who holds attention. The same vibe will be projected by guys with a wealth of field experience. That's the reason why, as counter intuitive as it seems, its actually *possible* for a guy to improve in this area of his life. In time, they will learn to project that same kind of high social status subcommunication, and they will not need formalized material in order to hold sets. They can also chill out their game, and slow it down. Their game can become very smooth, and the sets will go just as well as when they were over the top with energy and material. At this point, its a good idea to shift focus seeing what kind of results you can get without any formal material. This will change selfperception, because it causes the realization that "THIS IS ME, NOT MY MATERIAL, THAT INTERESTS PEOPLE". Having accomplished that and having become congruent with that crucial internal shift, bringing back in material is extremely useful. I have read many posts on this board claiming that material should be dropped once the newbie has gained experience, and I agree only to the extent that it should be dropped temporarily.
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23 For example, I can hold a set no matter what. There is no way I can be blown out of set. It is just impossible at this point. I can linger around a set like a weirdo, and still open. I can open fairly often in front of huge 10 guy cockfarms who are making the set uncomfortable on dark streets after bar hours. I can open moving targets who have places to be. I can open with something stupid and random like "Tell me your name" and they will stop because my frame is strong enough that they will do it reflexively and they'll do it because I fucking said so. Because of my field experience, I communicated it so congruently that their thought process immediately switched to "How do I do what he said right now", instead of what it would switch to for most guys which would be "Who the fuck is this telling me what to do? Do I even want to listen? I have to go." That said, I also know that high octane material is extremely useful in many areas. I know that an opinion opener is an easier way to open than walking up and saying 'hi', because I know that it will engage everyone and provide a tested topic of conversation that the girls will have something to say about. I know that a tight story will blow open the group because its very engaging, and it will make me seem very clever and sharp witted. I know that a good extraction routine is useful because it will allow a girl who is already attracted to excuse her actions and go with me, so that she doesn't have to feel badly in front of her friends. I know that while not totally necessary or anything like that, that these are the paths of least resistance. These vehicles make my life easier, and keep my results very consistent. I also know that I can intricately lace personality conveying content into my material, which on many logical levels will convince the girl to see me again once I have left and her state has died down (hence I don't get much phone flaking, while less competent guys will claim "Phone #s are bullshit", which always makes me laugh and scratch my head as I think back to all the great things that have happened to me in the past year as a result of the phone - if you catch my drift). So that said, if I could go back in time a year and give myself advice on where to improve to get where I am now, here are a few things I'd say. Focus on learning to hold sets without a high energy level. Smoothen out the delivery, and tonality. Learn to subcommunicate higher value with the most precise, fucking smooth delivery possible. It's good to be more INTERESTING than entertaining. Learn to be flirty and sexual, and then to pull back and get them qualifying themselves to you. Learn to be both congruently indifferent, and yet be able to shift to being forward at the same time. Learn to master vocal projection and how it corresponds to social status. Learn to talk in a way that commands attention instantly. Always be able to convey higher social status by strength of frame. When you talk, know that everyone will stop to listen to you. Smoothen out the bodylanguage and ease in and out of sets smoothly. Test running with pure AFC talk, to test to see if your bodylanguage and tonality has reached a point where it can hold a set without any high octane material. Learn to be as alpha and commanding in set as possible. There is NO WAY a set cannot open. All sets will open, and almost all sets will venue change with you. They have no choice, because your frame is just stronger. Tolerate no bullshit in set, tell them exactly what to do. Get girls qualifying themselves to you. Learn - and this is so fucking important - to get girls to the point where THEY are the ones struggling and thinking frantically about how to keep you engaged and keep you there. Learn to cross that social hook point, and learn when to shut up. Learn to phase shift at the snap of a finger. Learn a phase shift so strong that girls will be sucked into it, because your frame is stronger and if you slow down and smoothen out, they will have to also because that's just the way it is. Learn to excute it at the right time and when its most effective. **And in terms of social intelligence, learn to recognize who is controlling the frame of the conversation, and to be the one controlling it at all times. I will post more on this. It is a very important topic and needs more attention. That is one of the main keys to why an average looking guy gets laid by hotties. It is so fucking subtle, but it is so important. Controlling the frame. Always preventing it from being taken from you. It's so easy, yet so subtle that very very few guys I know understand it properly. Much of this stuff is what avoids phone flaking. It's strength of frame. Pure social control and power. It's very late at night right now, as Mystery has had a bunch of girls running around the house all night keeping me awake. I want to write more on this, but will post this as is for now and update more in the future. I want to leave one last thought: For guys learning this game, stop and think more about how you're coming across. Ask yourself, "Although what I'm doing may be helping to hold the attention of the set, is it blowing me out by conveying a lower social value because I'm too high energy and not smooth and chilled back enough? Are these people a little uncomfortable and insecure and qualifying themselves around me, or are they just along for the ride that I'm giving them with my material". More on this later....
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25 POINT AFC CHECKLIST 1)
FIDGETY MOVEMENTS AND TIGHT SHOULDERS AND TAKING YOURSELF TOO SERIOUSLY OR BEING TOO BUSINESSLIKE OR “SOPHISTICATED” (not laughing or being relaxed) = very visible subconsious (or conscious) self-doubt, overcompensating through non-relaxed state, where you’re prepared to deal with anything that could happen. Ever met someone who doesn’t blink when you talk to them?
2)
TALKING TOO FAST = worried that people will stop listening to you unless you get out something that will interest them before they leave
3)
LAUGHING AT YOUR OWN JOKES = covering up that you aren’t affected that others didn’t laugh, and social nervousness
4)
SAYING “RIGHT” OR “YOU KNOW” AFTER STATEMENTS = seeking validation that what you said was true, or saying it because others aren’t
5)
STANDING WITH LEGS NOT HALF A METER APART AT LEAST = worried that you’ll infringe on other people’s personal space
6)
TALKING TOO SOFTLY OR LOUD = fear that you’ll impose yourself on people and their personal space(ie: beta).. alpha males aren’t afraid to project their voice.. YET, talking obviously too LOUD can also be seen as OVERCOMPENSATING. Just like guys who wear GENERIC clothes are trying to fit in, or guys who wear OUTRAGEOUS clothes are trying too hard to overcompensate. (hint: be careful with peacocking, find a style that doesn’t come off this way, which can be tricky but is still very doable).. Some guys don’t talk, some talk too much, etc etc.. Find appropriate balance through trial and error, which is determined through social observation,
7)
MOVING YOUR HANDS AROUND WHILE YOU TALK = trying to keep the attention of the group (sometimes can be cool, but most often a form of qualifying yourself)
8)
LEANING IN or ‘PECKING’ = too eager to talk.. NEVER lean in no matter how loud the environment is MAKE HER LEAN IN or just leave but NEVER lean in or “peck” as its also called. 9) FACING BODY/FEET TOWARDS HER BEFORE SHE EARNED IT = trying to gain rapport with her too eagerly. 10)
CHASING WHEN SHE WALKS AWAY = hoping she’ll listen. If a chick moves away from you, move your bodylanguage MORE away from her, so she’ll be drawn back.. don’t CHASE her... WTF?!@?!? 11)
NOT WITHDRAWING (backturns, etc) WHEN SHE DOES SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULDN’T TOLERATE FROM AN UGLY GIRL OR A GUY = trying too hard to pick her up
12) ANSWERING QUESTIONS TOO QUICKLY/EARLY = too much interest in the conversation 13) her 14)
TURNING YOUR HEAD (OR “SNAPPING”) WHEN YOU’RE ADDRESSED = too eager to be in convo.. so if your head is facing the other direction, and a girl says something to you, turn it SLOWLY to her, don’t snap it out of eagerness to hear GOING BACK TO A PRIOR THREAD THAT WAS INTERUPTED AT THE FIRST CHANCE/BREAK-IN-CONVO THAT YOU GET = trying too hard to impress them.. (ie: when a thread gets broken off in the convo, and you go back to it FIRST chance you get when the other topic ends, you look like you were WAITING to get back to it.. WHY are you so eager to get back on it, unless you don’t feel comfortable around the person and you need to qualify yourself to them?) WAIT until THEY say “what was that you were saying before?”, and THEN go back to
it.. if it doesn’t happen, DROP IT even if it was good. 15)
NOT APPEARING MORE INTO YOUR WINGMAN THEN THE CHICK = trying too hard to pick her up.. you’ve known your wingman longer than her.. why do you pay more attention to her than your wing??? 16)
17)
TOO EAGER TO PAY ATTENTION - SAYING “what?” IF YOU CAN’T HEAR HER, PRIOR TO BEING IN RAPPORT = too much interest in what she’s saying.. if she mumbles, just STACK OPENERS into an entirely DIFFERENT topic, RATHER than saying “what?” This is fucking KEY KEY KEY. If you say “what?” you’ll lose her unless you’re already past attraction and into rapport. If this happens, just run a new opener and change the topic. 1- you don’t look too eager, 2- you look alpha for being disinterested in what she’s talking about which helps anyway REPLYING WITH OVERLY THOUGHT-OUT OF LOGICAL ANSWERS OR WITH OVERLY CLEAR/FORMAL PRONUNCIATION = being concerned that you won’t be accepted unless
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25 you convince really well (eg. HB: why did you ask me that... RIGHT = I’m talking. (sit and stare) WRONG = because I really need to know since I’ve been thinking about this for a while.. the FIRST one conveys that you won’t qualify yourself to her) 18)
TAKING TOO MANY SENTENCES TO STATE AN IDEA THAT COULD BE STATED IN LESS SPACE = qualifying yourself. Commander Zap emails me a few months ago: “Remember TD, don’t write what you can say, don’t say what you can wink, don’t wink what you can smile” TIGHT. The shorter you can explain something in, the more PROFOUND you’ll appear. Why? You’re not qualifying yourself. (ironically I’m massively guilty of this, due to the fact that I post when I’m really tired - see #21 to spot what was wrong with this last sentence) 19)
BEING BOLD INSTEAD OF CONFIDENT = that you know that you can’t pick her up, so you compensate with self-defeating actions so that the snub can be on “your terms”. Saying “I’m sexy right?” or “baby I want some of that” or even just approaching when the logistics are totally unrealistic is too eager, because a CONFIDENT person wouldn’t feel the NEED to say these kinds of things.. these things are symptoms of OVERCOMPENSATION for INSECURITIES.. which leads to.......... 20)
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25) A)
OVERCOMPENSATING INSECURITIES = fear of not being accepted. Have you ever met a janitor who the first thing he says is “money is over-rated.. I would never get caught up in the corporate world” blah blah.. if they’d have just said “I’m a janitor” and LEFT IT AT THAT we wouldn’t have even THOUGHT that anything was wrong with it.. but because they INSTANTLY start overcompensating, it comes off as overcompensating or qualifying. Same with if they BRING IT UP TOO EARLY. Like “hey, I’m Steve.. I’m a janitor and I love it”.. They’re TRYING to be cocky but it comes off as COMPENSATING. BE COMFORTABLE WITH YOURSELF. If you’re BALD, don’t say “would you love a bald man?” as a pickup line. It’s not COCKY.... its BOLD. If you’re bad looking, don’t say “don’t you think I’m sexy”. Just be comfortable with yourself, and don’t bring up the issue at all. OVERCOMPENSATING FAILURE OR SHORTCOMINGS = fear of being judged.. if you do poorly on a presentation, or on a sarge in front of a wingman, or on a test, DO NOT SAY DUMB SHIT LIKE “I’m really tired”. EVEN IF you’re ACTUALLY really tired, the mere act of saying “I’m tired” comes off as QUALIFYING yourself to the person. Just don’t bring it up. If you have shitty clothes on, don’t say “I have nicer clothes at home.” Just don’t bring it up. If you meet a girl when you’re dressed bad, don’t say “I have the coolest club clothes at home” Just don’t bring it up. GOING BACKWARDS IN THE PICKUP ON HER SCHEDULE = too eager to lay her.. if you’ve already GONE THROUGH the whole “let’s ballbust and shit test eachother” attraction phase of the pickup, and you’re now in RAPPORT -> if she tries to ballbust you at this point then just WITHDRAW ATTENTION. DO NOT BALLBUST BACK. It seems COUNTER INTUITIVE, but once you’ve gone through that whole little attract phase, and you’re now being nice to eachother in rapport, DO NOT let her rewind the sarge by answering her ballbusting with ballbusts of your own. Just withdraw attention, to show that you’re not interested in going BACKWARDS in a sarge. WAITING FOR HER IF SHE LEAVES FOR ANY REASON (LIKE SAYS “I’M GOING TO THE WASHROOM, WAIT HERE) = too eager and into the convo.. if she goes to the washroom, make sure you’re into another set by the time she gets back. OVERLY REMEMBERING DETAILS ABOUT PAST CONVOS = convo means too much to you, because the person has unusual value to you (ie: a hot chick). Of course, I’m not advocating to be a total dick, but the general rule of thumb is that if you wouldn’t have remembered a FAT CHICK or a GUY saying it, then don’t remember the HB9 chick saying it. If some random dude said it and you would have remembered, then FINE. If you were in an unusually intimate convo that’s also fine. But otherwise FAKE forgetting, even if she’s a model and you remember every word. Even forget her name. If you see a random chick from your class or work, but you never talked to her, OPEN LIKE YOU DON’T KNOW HER. Don’t give into the temptation to say “we work together”. Just open like a random chick, and maybe if you get snubbed then pull out that card to save face, but only as a LAST RESORT. OFFERING TOO MUCH ABOUT YOURSELF TOO EARLY = too eager to make them like you.. subcategories of this are: Verbally: if you say to a chick “yeah, I just got back from NYC (or any cool place that would impress)” or “yeah, I just got my Rolex fixed”, or “yeah, my stripper ex-girlfriend told me...” then she PICKS UP on the fact that you’re
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26 trying too hard to impress her.. Same with NAME DROPPING.. DON’T GIVE GIRLS YOUR RESUME TOO EARLY.. Personality conveying routines should convey personality COVERTLY, so it looks like the story is just SO COOL that its WORTH TELLING on its own accord, and it just HAPPENS to have some good things about you in it. When offering good things about yourself, don’t offer boring details. Say it with less detail, and it seems less eager. INSINUATE THAT WHICH YOU ARE TEMPTED TO ELICIDATE (holy shit, I just made up that last catchy sentence, but I’ve gotta say that I’m the shit.. right?) B)
Entertaining: If you have stuff like patterns, or the CUBE, or magic, or photos, or palmreading, and you do this EARLY, it comes off as TRY-HARD. Personally I don’t use any of these things, but alot of guys do, and when they bust them out prior to the chick EARNING it, it comes off TRY-HARD. Use the stuff LATER, but not right away.
C)
Wanting rapport with someone who didn’t earn it: WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT??? I swear to god, almost EVERY PUA I meet live in field does this shit, and its SUPER LAME. Going up to a chick and saying “nice necklace” or “what’s your name” or “where did you get that?” is FUCKING DORK SUPER LAME. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF FROM A R-A-N-D-O-M PERSON????? The counter argument to this is that you’re not hiding your desires blah blah blah she’s a hot girl and she should be happy that you’re approaching, but this is INTERNET RHETORIC.. and this approach is STILL hiding your desires behind the GUISE that you’re nice, so even if the rhetoric was true, it would STILL be ineffective... In the INTERNET ARMCHAIR GAME this stuff is FINE, but in the REAL FIELD GAME this shit screws you over before you’ve even started gaming. It’s fucking bullshit, and NOBODY who isn’t very goodlooking or socially proofed (or whatever high value) PRIOR to going in, can make this kind of approach work consistently on HB8.5+ chicks. TRYING FOR RAPPORT TOO EARLY IS QUALIFYING YOURSELF TO HER BECAUSE SHE HAS NOT EARNED IT.
D)
Talking without feedback: When you’re talking to someone, and they don’t give feedback, and you’re talking and talking, you BETA YOURSELF. It’s a DOWNWARD SPIRAL, where you start talking TOO MUCH, and you SENSE that you’re qualifying yourself, so you overcompensate EVEN MORE by TALKING and TALKING more and more.. Then you feel more and more beta’ed because you qualified yourself, and you’re left treading water, grabbing at ANYTHING that will impress the person, so you keep talking in hopes of saying that one thing that will impress them. AVOID this by not talking too much unless THEY give some feedback. IN THE FIELD you do this by PAUSING and FORCING them to fill in the awkward gaps
10 ALPHA BEHAVIORS When I first came onto the board, breakbeat IM’ed me to ask if I had any insights onto what an alphamale really was, and what characteristics/attributes/qualities they had. I kept my eyes open for a long time, and compiled a mental list. I’ve been meaning to post this for a while. I think that this is really important, and I hope that people will read all of this. This post is about to get messy I think... confusing, etc. Alright, for me, as I’ve gotten good at PU, I’ve finally started to notice discrepancies between myself and NATURAL players. It’s funny, because even though I can outgame any natural in terms of results, I often feel like I’m trying too hard. Like, even though I can outgame them, they can have a nice chill night and just be comfortable and secure, while my mind is racing a million miles a minute. Of course this is because I LOVE the game, and because I play it for the purpose of stimulating myself intellectually (once you get very experienced, your mind buzzes with info-processing while you’re doing PU, as you rapidly compare past experience and gametheory that you’ve read, to events at hand.. This is why I play the PU game so much, and it is a similar reason to why I enjoy my philosophy cirriculum at school). Still though, I’ve studied alpha behaviour very carefully now, and I’ve noticed some characteristics, which you guys may or may not agree with.
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27 Here they are off the top of my head: ALPHAMALE CHARACTERISTICS: 1)
NEVER QUALIFYING THEMSELVES.
“Qualify” meaning that they never brag or even REMOTELY explain things... they don’t say “I’m tired right now”, or “I’m really hung over”, or “My good clothes are at home”, or “I used to be able to lift that weight, but I haven’t been in the gym for a while.”, or “I could do that, but I’m having a bad day.” Similarly, they don’t talk excessively about all the chicks they’ve laid, or all their girlfriends, or all their success. WHY? Because they don’t even GIVE A FUCK enough about you to even tell you about it. They ASSUME that you’ll think that they’re the shit, because they ARE. TALKING ALOT / TOO MUCH IS VERY OFTEN INTERPRETED AS QUALIFYING YOURSELF. 2)
NOT LOOKING AROUND.
Think CLINT EASTWOOD. He hears a big bang or loud noise, and he SLOWLY turns to look at it. He doesn’t let ANYBODY disturb him. He’s in his own reality. I can remember walking into a class late one day, and not looking at the teacher WHATSOEVER. The girls started giggling, as I looked totally unconcerned at what anyone thought, and they started hitting on me after class. I mean I can hardly convey this over the net.. The reaction was RIDICULOUS. 3)
TALK SLOW.
Think to when you are chatting some authority figure, or somebody who you admire. If you’re like me, you’ll increase your speech DRAMATICALLY. It’s very obvious, and I’ve seen guys who are alpha start talking abnormally fast when confronted with guys who are MORE alpha. Talking fast is a way of QUALIFYING yourself to someone, because you are WORRIED that they’ll stop listening to you and that you won’t get out what you have to say. 4)
BEING THE ANCHOUR OF THE CONVERSATION.
Notice that when an obviously alpha guy is present, everyone faces their bodylanguage towards him. If you crack a joke, people wait for the alphamale to laugh as a sort of “approval” of the joke. He laughs, and then everyone follows. Also, an alphamale can crack a DUMB joke, but notice that everyone laughs. It’s a laugh of SUBMISSION in many ways, as when I’m sarging girls they always giggle non-stop.. (alot of PUAs I’ve met will say “dude, you make girls giggle like nobody else.. this is ridiculous”.. This is only something that I learned as I practised ASF stuff, and it never used to happen. Notice that chicks LAUGH HYSTERICALLY when you call them “geeks/dorks/powerpuffgirls”.. Or they laugh when you say that if they’re not rich you’ll break up with them. Guys, this stuff is NOT FUNNY. But they laugh like its the funniest thing they’ve ever heard. Why? IMO, its because its a laugh of submission. These C&F remarks set you as ALPHA, and they giggle to submit. This is called going “girly-girl”, and the ugly chicks always bash the hotties for giggling at the captain of the football team’s lame jokes.. “see how she laughs at all his dumb jokes.. its so pathetic!” (even though they WISH that THEY were the ones who the coolguy would be chatting up).. 4b) USURPING THE GLORY. Alphas seem to take ANYTHING that challenges their alpha status in the room and USURP it for themselves. This is a variation of being the ANCHOUR of the convo. Basically, if you’re not the alpha, and you say something cool, the alphamale might do something like “YEAH THAT IS THE SHIT... YOU COULD EVEN DO X,Y,Z....” Somehow, YOUR cool idea has become THEIR cool idea, and they’ve usurped the credit for your idea. 5)
NEVER BEING IMPRESSED.
There’s this one dude, who whenever I hang out at his house (university frathouse type deal, with lots of guys living there), there will always be this little “alpha-subtext” deal going on. Like, I’ll be showing the dudes there something, and I’ll have ALL the attention. But will HE come over and act impressed? NOPE. He’ll just go do his own thing, or just sit there eating his ravioli, unimpressed with me, in his own reality.
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28 The ONLY time he’ll pay attention to what I’m doing is if its a case like 4b, where he’ll usurp it for himself. Otherwise, he’s NEVER interested. 6)
ONLY HAVING RAPPORT WITH BETAS, EXCEPT FOR A FEW EXCEPTIONS.
I’ve noticed that I can’t get along with alphamales as well as I used to be able to. It’s like a conflict in the room, where the heirarchical status is totally out of order. Alphas will often hate eachother, except that when they DO make friends, they are BEST FRIENDS. Or, they can co-exist, but have this sort of weird way of talking. Like they’ll say things to eachother in ways that don’t qualify themselves, so its sort of like a weird broken conversation. I dunno how to describe this, but I’m sure you’ve all seen it. Anyway, they get along with everyone, since everyone is on their knob. But as soon as someone who tries to “take over” the alpha status comes along, he’s ridiculed for whatever reason they see fit.
7)
ANSWERING QUESTIONS WITH DEGRADING JIBBERISH.
I’ve noticed that alphas will also have tendencies to take any question that you may have posed in attempt to get rapport with them, and answer it with some stupid non-sensical bullshit. This goes back to why I say “don’t ask girls questions.. just make statements until they try to get rapport with YOU.. ‘what’s your name’, etc etc” Say that you come across an alphamale, and you want to try to get rapport with him. Maybe you’ll ask him some basic questions or something. But he’ll answer with stupid shit like “guess”, or “I work at taco bell.. I’m the employee of the month”.. SOUND FAMILIAR? :) Also, they have a tendency to take what you asked and TWIST it around to ridicule you. 8)
ALPHAMALES DON’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU.
Have you ever been onto a campus where there are cliques everywhere. Go look at the clique of rich jewish kids. (many of my closest friends are in these, so no stupid racist bullshit comments) They don’t give a fuck about you. You can be the centre of attention, life of the party, whatever.. It doesn’t matter, they’re in their corner with a few hotties, minding their own business, and they’re NOT gonna come out to see what cool shit is going on with you. Now you’d THINK that this would make them BETA, but there’s just something ABOUT them that makes it seem cool. Their disinterest puts them up above you, and if they DO come over, they come over like you’re their “CLOWN” whose purpose is to ENTERTAIN THEM. It’s all about THEM, not YOU. Again, “USURPING THE GLORY”. 9)
ALPHAMALES GET MORE CREDIT FOR MINOR ACTS OF KINDNESS THAN BETAS DO.
When I was in NYC with Papa and Mys, we stayed at the house of this guy named “Garvellous” (NYC Lair top guy). He was a really cool guy, and he’d been laid around 40 times in college before he’d even FOUND ASF. He’d been in a frat, and he told me about something that the frathouse would intentionally do to new pledges when they’d apply. According to Garvellous, they were told to appear UNAPPROACHABLE and CLIQUISH initially. THEN, they were to be REALLY DOWN TO EARTH. What he explained was that if you APPEAR to be cliquish and unapproachable, that when you turned out to be actually down to earth, people would say “this guy is the NICEST/COOLEST guy..” As opposed to a librarian or a geek being nice, which NOBODY appreciates because they interpret it as COMPENSATING for shortcomings. Just think: Imagine if you were to bump into Jay-Z or Dr. Dre or Michael Jordan, and they had a big entourage. The celeb in question comes up to you and says “what’s up.. having a good time dude? cool.. yeah this place is pretty busy you know, and it can be kinda intimidating.. but you know, I just try to have a good time.. anyway, have a good night man..” You’d be like HOLY SHIT THAT GUY IS THE COOLEST/NICEST GUY I’VE EVER MET... You’d tell EVERYBODY about how cool and down to earth the celeb is, and you’d be really appreciative and impressed. Now take the SAME REMARK from a geek or whatever, and you wouldn’t give it a second thought... Whatever, its just some geek. In clubs, the “unapproachable” guys are the dudes who wear sunglasses into the club, and have superfly clothes and a corner with hot girls. Notice that if one of THOSE guys approaches your set in a club, you will NEVER snub him. The two-man cockfarm of generically dressed guys on the other hand, its a different story.
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29 10)
ULTIMATE COMFORT IN OWN SKIN.
Here is one that I find really funny. Look at rapport 50-Cent, or any stereotypical rockstar. Now your average woman will have all of these “ideals” that guys should have, but notice that these go out the window for guys like 50-Cent. 50-Cent raps about how he’s going to kill and shoot people.. Fuck hoes, etc etc.. NOBODY questions this. He is 50-Cent, he’s from the streets, and THAT-IS-WHO-HE-IS. NOBODY QUESTIONS IT. Similarly, a rockstar pumps massive drugs and fucks groupies all day long. He’s a REBEL.. a BADBOY.. a SEX SYMBOL.. (notice the correlation, and how projecting rebel/badboy can get you laid, even though there is no LOGICAL reason for that being the case).. Even a spiritual guy who talks about inner-peace and non-violence and all that stuff will usually say “well, he’s a superstar” when they’re asked what they think about these types of guys.. (there are exceptions of course, and the dudes with more zeal will call out anybody). Another example is like COLLEGE ALPHA MALES who wear dumb shit like TOGAS and marker up their faces with magic marker and shit like that. Notice that everyone thinks that its COOL, just because the “cool kids” (alphas) are doing it. NOBODY questions it.
1)
CONCLUDING THOUGHTS: Good topic for discussion - how to DEAL with these kinds of guys. For any of us who do clubs, these kind of guys can be DIFFICULT TO BEFRIEND, for group thoery purposes (for social proof, and of course for stealing their chicks) So how do we get good at out-alpha-ing these guys, who barely talk, and who are disinterested in getting to know you?
2)
In what ways do WE on ASF EMULATE these behaviours? Some obvious ones are just making statements and not asking about them until they go for it first. And following up “what’s your name” with answers like “guess”.
3)
How does this CONFLICT with the fact that you NEED TO BE TALKATIVE in order to pickup. It’s funny, because it could be argued that the true alpha doesn’t TRY to pickup, but just goes out with his group and has girls do the work to approach HIM. It just strikes me funny that although I’m supposedly thought of as this big alpha guy on campus, that I TRY REALLY HARD compared to all the other alphas. Basically, I’m a MASSIVE try-hard when you really get down to it. I just hide it very well. So if alphamales don’t talk too much, because that is QUALIFYING YOURSELF, then how do we run a good PU? One way to get over this hump is to just go and make statements, run routines, etc etc, in a way that conveys that you’re just in the mood to TALK, and it has NOTHING to do with impressing them. Of course this is what David D, Gunwitch, and others are referring to when they say its 90% bodylanguage/tonality. This goes back to the ideas of 2) TALK SLOW, 3) NOT LOOKING AROUND. Also 1) NOT QUALIFYING YOURSELF is important here as well, since you JUST TALK and don’t try to get rapport, or say things that could be interpreted as qualifying yourself. A GREAT way to do this is JERK ROUTINES, which are NEGS because you are saying that you don’t want them, so they interpret that as NOT qualifying yourself, which makes them perceive you as alpha, which attracts them to you. Also importantly here, 8) ALPHAMALES DON’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU... That is conveyed by the fact that you DON’T ASK QUESTIONS to the chick. You don’t ask her her name, or where she works, or ANYTHING until she starts asking YOU. IOW, I don’t go for rapport with HER, until she goes for it with ME, and then I initialy TEASE her that I won’t reciprocate this intention (“guess”, C&F answers, etc), for the first minute, until I DO give it to her.
I’ve recognized TWO types of alphas. #1, the type that maintains alpha status by making everyone around them BETTER. Examples: Wayne Gretzky Mark Messier
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30 Winston Churchill #2, the type that maintains alpha status by putting everyone around them DOWN. Examples: Saddam Hussein puck hogs in hockey, who score goals but never pass my dad my insecure principle who would suspend people left and right, and teachers who always yell posters on this board who criticize alot of material, but never post their own (this isn’t at anyone specific since I don’t have mental-energy to keep track of this stuff, but you’ll see it happen from time to time with posters who pass through here) the bully in high school
Going back to your post.... this is a REALLY good point, and I agree completely in some ways. The ‘ass model’ type stuff is excellent because it APPEARS like you just thought of it right then and there, and makes you seem intelligent -> good genetics. However, I was commenting on typical traits of natural alphas, and wasn’t NECESSARILY commenting on IDEAL traits of alphas. Rather, I was just commenting on what many natural alphas do, and that it should be RECOGNIZED. The degrading retorts fall into alpha category #2. I am still as of yet UNSURE which of these tactics I feel I should KEEP, and which I should throw away. The degrading answers is something that MANY of the “Mr. Cool Guy” types around my campus do, in a lame way to retain their alpha-status. I think its undeniable that it goes on, but that’s only given what I’ve seen in my life experience. Either way though, I do agree with your rationale.
STATE CONTROL Threads popping up lately on fear of approaching, state control, etc... gonna type up something fast on this. My view on state control is that NLP is a WACK way to try to control your state. The way I do things is IMO, alot more effective than all this, “picture yourself as a giant stepping on the mini-HB” or “picture your pointy finger sliding in and out of her... it feels soooo goood” or “picture yourself as a rising phoenix!” etc... Personally, it strikes me as very ridiculous, but that’s just IMHO. If you guys wanna try to be like rising phoenix’s or something though, I’ve got no personal beefs with that or anything! Just remember though, that by the time you’ve TRANSMORPHED into a magic phoenix, or SHRUNK your target into a mini-HB, some fuckhead like MOI may have may have come along and taken her out from you! Very common in clubs. So you’re officially warned! Anyway, here’s what’s helped me, and some tricks I use:
STATE CONTROL: 1)
Before going out to sarge, read ANY RANDOM POST from the MRSEX4UNYC archive. He is a CRAZY motherfucker, and reading his posts is SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to incrase testosterone levels by 300%.. Seriously! The shit the guys writes just revvs you up to sarge, and to “make bitches get with the program NOW”. Sometimes I’ll be sitting at home, and I’ll just be reading it, and I’ll be like “WTF IS THIS SHIT!? WHAT’S GOING ON?!?!?! These bitches aren’t getting with the program.. I gotta LAY DOWN THE LAW NOW!” And then I start phoning up all those
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31 “bitches” and PUT THEM IN LINE.. It actually works too!! (yep, I even start calling them bitches in my head... the shit INFECTS you! its fucking AWESOME) 2)
ACTUALLY be a man! Wow, who would have ever thought of that?! As in, so you don’t have to fake it! BE the man! Join a boxing gym, or any VIOLENT sport, where you have to ACTIVELY be the man for at least one whole hour. And LIFT WEIGHTS. I used to weigh around 120-130 pounds. What do you think weighing in at 160 now does to my confidence? (plus, being better looking does help at least a bit, but mainly its just the confidence). Remember, that when you walk into a room, and you GENUINELY KNOW that you could lay out any other sucker NO PROB, it gives you an AURA OF ALPHANESS that chicks pick up on. Not to mention that you feel really good about yourself, even when things aren’t going so well with the HBs.
3)
Have PERSPECTIVE. Realize that this is for FUN. Don’t place any VALUE on girls. Alot of posters here post things like “PLEASE HELP, this situation is crazy!” or “What do I do?!” or “I want her SO BAD” or “I’ve tried everything!” etc etc etc.. Now I can EMPATHIZE and RELATE to all this, and I’ve BEEN THERE. But you have to realize, NOT to take this too seriously. Thinking back, 10 years from now, it won’t make much difference, and you’ll realize, that at this moment, NOW, you realize that this is just for fun... ;)
4)
DO NOT GIVE UP OTHER PRIORITIES TO SARGE. Think about it: ALL people work on a CONGRUENCE principle. WE exploit it with women, by extracting FAST SEX from them, so that they have to RATIONALIZE that they were in love. Women (“Rules Girls”) extract LOTS OF WORK in the “courtship” from us, to make us think that we are in love (it works, a chick used it on me in high school and I’m still SCARRED), since we rationalize that we wouldn’t have done so much for a chick we didn’t truly love. It’s all CONGRUENCE. ***How does that relate to STATE CONTROL you ask? Simple. The MORE you GIVE UP to make time to learn ASF stuff, the more you NEED it to work, to justify your efforts. And down the chain we go, the more you get NERVOUS during a sarge, since you’re thinking “this HAS to work, I’ve invested SO MUCH TIME, and given up my marks at school, work, etc..) That doesn’t mean stop doing the whole ASF thing.. it just means MODERATE. Also, to add to this, make sure you have a really firm base of family and friends, so that you don’t NEED a GF to feel good.
5)
Use GAME METAPHORS, to ease your state. Mystery calls PU “The Game”. That’s a powerful metaphor, cause it helps you to realize that this is a GAME, and you should play it like one. Also, the “I AM A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD PIMP” bit can help you to relax, cause it SATARIZES your own behaviour, and helps you to loosen up during your sarges.
6)
Concentrate on smaller DIRECT goals for now. “Today I will try to isolate, even if there’s no SOI”, or “Today I’ll use this opener, and whatever happens happens”. etc etc.. That way, you’ll feel accomplished, even if you don’t score.
7)
ACCEPT, and I mean GENUINELY ACCEPT that you are NOT good with women, 95%+ of ALL MEN are NOT as good with women as they claim and delude themselves to believe, and if a woman rejects your advances ACCEPT THAT IT DOES NOT REFLECT ON YOU IN ANY WAY other than just as a fuck up in your _G_A_M_E_. Would you feel bad about loosing at Street Fighter in an arcade? No? Why not? Because its a GAME that you play for FUN. It’s more fun to win of course, but its fun EITHER WAY, since you learn new techniques/moves/etc. GENUINELY ACCEPT that rejection is not a rejection of you as a person, and you will not get so nervous.
8)
Get field experienced. Fear of the unknown is very understandable, and to be expected. The more field experienced you get, the less “unknown” it becomes, and hence, less fear -> state is controlled more readily.
INNER GAME Inner game wise, most recently anyway, I think I made the best strides when I began to view my relationship with women differently. I know that in the past, I’d always wanted a genuine and trusting relationship. I felt that this was possible, and also felt that through the study of game, I could acheive this. However, knowing what I know now, I view women differently. I used to judge women in a GUY’S FRAME. What I mean by that, is that I would judge women in the same way I’d judge a guy. Things like reliability, trust, level-headedness, and liking me for “who I really am”. I’ve since come to re-frame the frame by which I judge women. Now I view them as elements in my life that are pleasant/beautiful, like flowers or a really cute pet. I believe that women are like cats - they’ll sit on your lap and keep you company for as long as you pet them the right way, but as soon as you scratch them wrong they’ll jump off and forget the last hour of work. My main connections and friendships are with my FRIENDS, including and especially female friends. I think that women have the similar capacity as men for honour and trust, but in the context of friendship. When your relation is based on a different dynamic of emotional need, friendship and trust is a CONTINGENCY, that CAN happen, but is by no means something that should be expected as the norm.
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32 So now, with that mentality, I no longer feel much neediness. I have a much much greater value on my friendships than I do on my sexual relationships. I ENJOY them, but I view women like pets. Papa said it to me like this: “Girls are like schoolyard friends. They come play with me, and then when we get bored we go play with somebody else.” Externally, this is manifested by the fact that I’m never angry or resentful towards women. If they fuck me around, I just take it as a deficiency somewhere in my game. I know that under different circumstances, the same girl would have reacted differently. I never get upset with anything that girls do. They are emotional creatures, and when the context is dealing with a new guy who they know wants something from them, they make irrational emotionally state based decisions. But then, these decisions are not necessarily so irrational. They are only as irrational as SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS have made them. And the social constructs that exist are not realistic towards women’s biological tendencies. Women are biologically built for multiple mates, and to promote sperm wars, jealousy, and elicit competition from men. I’ve seen this in the field on levels that are astonishing. I could post thousands of examples, from the way that the sweetest/nicest girls will call their boyfriends from my house the next morning, lying with such skill and absence of guilt, it actually shocks me. Or watching girls as they stand by watching two guys out-alpha eachother, when they were having an incredible time getting to know the lesser guy right before, but the more alpha guy just condescends and unloads him, and the girl just goes off with the more alpha guy, with no regard to the connection she’s just built with the poor sucker. And in saying this, I am focusing not only on the actions themselves, but the blank uncaring look that they have while this happens. To me, this is purely biological. Like with the lying, they seem to act as though what’s going on makes perfect sense. Like they’re built for it. Go to Leicester Square in England at 2am to watch this go down. Watch close, and learn from it. At this point, my expectations from women are virtually nil. I make economical decisions, and deal with them from a purely business standpoint. I do this yet, as a hobby. It’s fun for me to be like this. So I suppose the biggest way that this has changed my external game is the way that I react to roadblocks. If a girl is blowing me off, I just keep barreling through with more material, or do takeaways and come back. Likewise with flakes. I don’t get upset with disrespect or flakiness. I just deal with it. If a girl in set is giving me trouble, adjust on the spot. I don’t take it as a personal thing. It’s not. If a girl sleeps with other guys, oh well. I fucked up somewhere. Dump her, or change gameplan. Either/Or, depending on my situation at the time. My friendships are with my friends. Girls I’m sleeping with are NOT my friends. They’re girls who I MAY BECOME friends with based on CONTINGENCIES, but its not something that I expect nor hope for. I ENJOY it when it happens, but I don’t expect it. I am selfsufficient, and the closest people to me are my friends. Also a sense or spirituality (not necessarily religious, but your sense of your place in the world), makes me feel self-contained, and unneedy. This translates into the projection of a much cooler person, IMHO. Women are incredible. I love them. They add incredible value to my life. But I love them as I love something that is fleeting, because the cognitive model with which I was indoctrinated is wrong. My thought is to enjoy my life independently, and need nothing from anyone. But at the same time, to become someone who others will want to give to, and to appreciate it while it lasts.
IMPROVEMENT AND INTERNAL DIALOGUE Man, I feel so bad for my friend who I hung out with tonight. It was really a sad case. I’ve been travelling for 3/4s of a year now, and not really seen all of my friends that I grew up with that often. They seem alot different than I remember. Guys like Papa, SB007, 26, TheOne, and all the other guys I hang with - they’re always improving themselves socially, and giving feedback periodically. We’ll talk with eachother if we qualify ourselves or act insecure or weird, and put it in check. Or even if it just could have been improved, its discussed out of interest. Like we’ll go out, and later on we’ll ask eachother stuff like “How did this come off?”. And it will be like “Well man, you didn’t really have to say this and this. And why did you say this? What was really gained by it? I liked this and this, though”. We just focus on it, because that’s what gets you laid really. That’s why some guys can learn some T/T, and they get laid instantly. They have this stuff down naturally, so give them an opener and a routine and an understanding of what ASD is, and they instantly get laid. Other guys, they have so far to go that no amount of ASF will help without meeting other PUAs to get extensive help (pro shrinks usually can’t fix this stuff because they’re eggheads themselves). I didn’t really have this stuff naturally, and had to struggle with it. I still do. But I have such a read on it now, that it all feels pretty natural. It’s internalized. That’s how you make progress. Unconscious incompetence -> conscious incompetence -> conscious competence -> unconscious competence. Like, alot of what I do I guess goes something sort of like:
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33 • • • • •
pinpoint place where I could socially improve pinpoint what internal issue or incongruency is causing this (what sorts of thoughts do I have that lead up to me fucking up) try faking that I don’t have this problem, and see how I feel about the result fix the internal incongruency, by knowing that I’ve seen improvements by consciously not making the same errors that stemmed from the insecurity or unhelpful internal dialogue, and therefore I just let it go because my experience tells me that it makes sense sit back and enjoy the improvements
So after doing this for around a year, I have improved myself more than I realized. Like I took it for granted, until I came back home and saw how I used to act - given that I used to be worse than my friends. We all have internal dialogues, and this is the crux of our inner game. The important thing is to fix this stuff, both by recognizing the external manifestations of internal weaknesses, and letting go of the issues that spawned the problems in the first place. I go back to my old friends, and they have all of these internal incongruencies that are so obvious to me now. It’s so obvious to me, I feel really bad for them. That’s because I know their internal dialogue. I’ve lived it myself. Like I can read instantly what sorts of internal thoughts that they’re having, when they say certain things. I can see their core identity issues, and how they’re feeling at the time, just by the way that they communicate. I feel like screaming “Man - it doesn’t have to be like this! You can fix this!” But they aren’t ready for it. They’re too insecure. It’s so fucked up. What it comes down to is that improving in the game isn’t exclusively about tactics / tech (although that is huge). It’s also about self-reflection, and being willing to see where you’re fucking up and being willing to acknowledge it. This isn’t just newbies either. I know of several PUAs in this community, that think that they’re beyond this sort of process. They think that they’re perfect, and above being a student of the game. I’ve seen some nasty cases of this in recent months. And its a shame because many top guys have lost their edge, and the success that they initially attained through proper thinking has bread arrogance and stagnation. That’s a shame, because the attitude that got them their initial success was very much the opposite. So their game becomes static. They go months without seeing improvement, and they attribute it to their having a top skillset. In fact, your skillset can always improve. Always. It never stops unless you want it to. I personally have so many different things that I could incorporate into an interaction to make it tighter, that it would take a decade to get it fully developed. I will post more on this in the future, as I have so fucking much to say on this topic. There is so much stuff that’s never even been explored in our community, that’s so fucking tight. If in one year this topic is even more muddled and confusing than it is now, that’s great. Because any real inquisition will always leave you with more questions than answers. The answers that you sought will be revealed, but in the process, a whole new slew of questions will crop up. We’ve seen that in the past year, and ideally that trend will continue. I really want to post more about the process that I use, because I think that its really neglected. I’ll do that this week hopefully. Big things to come... In the meantime, I feel horrible for my friend. He’s in really bad shape. I’ll have to figure something out I guess.
THE SECRET SOCIETY Many guys will dislike this, because it implies that women are sluts and untrustworthy. Well, I can only speak from my experience and report back what I’ve seen. I’m also posting in a semi-satirical tone - I haven’t gone off the deepend..... yet... :) A secret society exists. Around 52% of people on this earth are a part of it. Of that 52%, 50% are women, 2% are men. Of that 2%, 1% of those men are gay, the other 1% are players. What I’m talking about is the sex secret society - and you are either IN or OUT.
1) 2) 3) 4) 5) 6)
SOME RULES OF THE SECRET SOCIETY: Don’t talk about the secret society. The priority of the secret society is to have perpetually good emotions in all members. Create shrowds around the secret society, like “all men are dogs”. Hide the truth that women are far more likely to cheat than men. If you are part of the secret society, you will never be denied anything at any point. If you are not part of the secret society, you will scrap and beg for everything you get. Communication in the secret society is less often verbal, and more often spoken through bodylanguage subcommunications, and verbal subcommunications that would only make sense to members. Any other way, and the 48% of men would pick up on it, and it would no longer be a secret.
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34 7)
At the first sign that someone who is not part of the secret society is possibly trying to pretend that he is, barate him with both love-rhetoric, and accusations of chauvanism and nit-witted-ness. It’s OK to cheat on someone who is not a part of the secret society, so long as it is for the purpose of fulfilling the needs of someone who is, or if it to fulfill your own needs and it is with someone who is a part of the secret society. Sleeping with a rare guy from the secret society is no worse than grinding with a girlfriend at a club and making out with her. “It doesn’t count”.
9)
Nobody judges eachother in the secret society. There is no such thing as a slut. A slut is only as slutty as people who are NOT in the secret society are aware of. 10) Secret society members COME FIRST. If someone in the society is not having fun with an interaction, it is cut off. Conversely, if a secret society male is with a non-secret-society male, and a secret society female (all females) decides she wants sex from the secret society male, the friend of the female may have sex with the non-secret-society male, because EVERYONE in the interaction must feel good. However, if the non-secret-society male is blowing himself out so badly that he makes the female member feel very bad emotions, then the secret-society-male must face the consequences of bringing negative emotions into the equation, and lose out on his privilege for sex in that interaction, until he ditches the non-secret-society male. Bear minimum requirements for non-secret-society males being grandfathered in with the male member, is that he not qualify himself or make anyone feel uncomfortable. Failing to meet those requirements, both are blown out. WHAT IS THE SECRET SOCIETY? Women are repressed by men, and so must look out for themselves. They will take care of: 1) 2) 3)
Their own sexual needs. The sexual needs of anyone in the secret society. The sexual needs of the few males who make the secret society possible (“players”).
The secret society is what allows women to appear wholesome and allows them to screen for a long term provider/emotionaltampon. Women hold off to find the perfect boyfriend, while sleeping with a guy who is likely sleeping with all of their friends, and their friends friends. They also fuck their gay boyfriends or jerk them off or give them head. They’re part of the secret society too, so they can’t be left out. EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS FROM SECRET SOCIETY INSIDERS (based on dozens of interviews I did over the summer, with girls in London England, as well as some from my own experience as a player): 1)
If you tell a girl that you’re gay, and that you want to “see what it feels like to be with a girl”, she’ll sleep with you. She won’t insist on using a condom either, unless you do. You’re part of the secret society, where condoms aren’t necessary because they are logical entities and not emotionally relevant. 2) If you subcommunicate that you are a part of the secret society, and tell the friend of your target “I’m really lonely. My girlfriend cheated on me, and I need to re-validate myself tonight”, she’ll tell her friend to fuck you. Her friend will realize from this that you are a part of the secret society, and she’ll fuck you. Moreover, if the friend refuses, the ugly girl will offer you a blowjob to help you out. 3) If you manage to verbally subcommunicate that you are a member (its still subcommunication, because the verbal ways you communicate it aren’t direct at all), the secret society members will gladly tell you all about their sexual exploits and adventures. As soon as you subcommunicate that you desire romance, she will immediately retract all of her previous statements (and she’ll look completely congruent doing so), and downplay them that it was something she did just one time and that she’s looking for a relationship. PUA: “I love to go out and hook up. I hate it when girls try to run my life”.. HB: “Me too.. I hooked up with guys all last year.. My boyfriend tried to control me, but I do what I want.. My girlfriends all do it too.” PUA: “Really? Cause to be honest, I’ve always felt like I’m a romantic guy.. And girls always cheat on me.. I want to find a girl who won’t cheat.” HB: “I would never cheat. Guys are dogs. I’m always loyal.” PUA: “But didn’t you say...” HB: “No, I said nothing.” PUA: “No, you said that you don’t let your boyfriend control you and you do what you want.” HB: “No, I didn’t mean that. I’m not a slut. I have no idea what you’re talking about, I didn’t say that.” 4) If you are a member, and say that you are really lonely and you need someone to snuggle and makeout with, all members of the secret society will agree to do so with you. If you are a girl, you have privilege to snuggle and kiss and sleep in the same bed as all other girls. If you are gay, you can do the same. If it escalates to sex, its an accident and does not count. If you’re a player, and you make girls around you emotional, and the friends are all in good emotions about it, they sleep with you. No one is a slut in the secret society, because the secret society does not judge. 5) If a group of girls living together find a guy who is in the secret society, they will all fuck him. They’ll recommend him as an honourary secret society member, and enjoy him. Meanwhile they may be in relationships with non-secret society members that they’ve fallen in love with, however this is not an issue because nobody in the secret society judges and sex with people in the secret society does not count. If you are a secret society member now, but in the past enjoyed a romantic relationship, what you may not realize is the part that was left out of the romance novel story (due to rules no1&2 of the secret society code), which was that after you dropped her off your romantic star watching, a secret society member came by and fucked the shit out of her without a condom and gave her the money shot all over her face. 6) If a secret society male has a non member male friend, the friend of the girl who wants sex from the male member will have sex with the non-member even if she doesn’t like him. However, rules state that if if the non-member is “creepy/scary” (kinos too much, leans in too much, asks dumb questions, tries too hard to impress, overqualifies), then the male member will be expected to return either alone or with another male member. Also, the male members must remember that positive emotions are always priority, and if he is alone he must still maintain the positive emotions of the female member who will not be getting sex, secret society rules not to be breached. Number 1 rule of the secret society, outside of not talking about it, is that EVERYONE maintains GOOD emotions. THE UNDERLYING MISUNDERSTOOD TRUTH OF THE SECRET SOCIETY: The 49% of men who live outside of the secret society don’t understand the mental model of attraction of people who are in the secret society.
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35 Men view attraction in their MALE MENTAL MODELS. They believe that attraction is “sexual aggression”. They understand attraction as having a physical urge to have sex, and then mentally deciding that you will go after it. They try to seduce women by touching and grabbing them, and getting them very horny. They try to seduce them in the SAME WAY that a woman would do well seducing THEM. They try to seduce them as if they were seducing a GUY. This sometimes works, and the propaganda is spread - “this is how to get chicks”. Secret society members will not fill them in, due to breach of the code. What the secret society members are not telling you, is that they understand that most sex occurs when women are not sexually AGGRESSIVE, but sexually RECEPTIVE. They understand that for women to be ready for sex, they need not feel horny, they need only feel EMOTIONAL. They understand that women are not logical, and that they are emotional. They understand that for women sex is not a big deal at all, and that its their LOGIC that puts the breaks on it. They understand that most women are afraid of sex because they lack TRUST, and because their LOGIC is putting on the breaks. They disarm logic by making the women EMOTIONAL, so that their LOGIC (which is the BREAKS of emotion) becomes disarmed, and at the same time maintain TRUST, so that the emotions generated won’t be interfered with. Then they simply have sex, because although the women are not WANTING sex, they are too EMOTIONAL to DECLINE sex. Then, once they BEGIN to have a physical interaction, the women become horny and sexually aggressive as a result, and sex begins. (NOTE: This is why girls must COCKBLOCK for eachother. Because they know that clubs are emotionally charged environments, and that it wouldn’t take much for a guy to use her resulting sexual receptiveness to lay her. The guy may not be a guy that the girl would lay normally, were she feeling more logical, so the girls must look out for eachother. Guys don’t need to do this because firstly, they will not be judged for sleeping around (no logic), secondly, they are sexually aggressive - not receptive - so their decisions will not be regretted later usually, and thirdly, because they do not need trust because they are not usually in any physical danger). They also understand that value + trust + attraction = sex (rough lazy model). Value = being someone in the secret society (it can also be SO many other things, but being a member can in some cases be sufficient) Trust = not telegraphing interest Attraction = increasing her buying temperature by making her emotional (emotionally aroused, not necessarily physically aroused.. the former will cause her to be too illogical to prevent you from causing the latter, when she’s ready) Don’t tell anyone about this. All knowledge will be denied and you will be ridiculed.
SCIENCE OF SOCIAL NETWORKS If you have really tight rapport skills, then you can get female friends.. become the pimp-daddy of shitloads of girls, so that they NEED to have you in their life, but REFUSE to fuck them. No matter how bad they want you, say straight up “NO, I view you as a sister, and I love you too much to treat you like a girlfriend.” This makes NO SENSE to me personally, but the chicks I know dig it. Then get them into a relationship where you makeout with them and sleep in the same bed, but don’t EVER, and I mean EVER have sex with them.. that way you can walk up to hotties with your pivot, and start groping them and kissing them in front of your target chick. For me, when I have a chick who seems flakey, I’ll have one of my pivots meet me at the place where I’m meeting my chick like half an hour before, and I’ll have her up on my lap rubbing my chest and giggling for when my flakey chick arrives.. Then I SNUB my pivot right in front of my target chick (I’m assuming that we’re talking HB8.5+ targets here, as this alienate you from a lesser chick), but in a way where my pivot gets off on it, because she likes to be controlled. I know that this sounds fucked up, but it requires you to tell girls STRAIGHT UP that you won’t fuck them no matter what, and that you value them as friends. I also tell most of my pivots that I “love” them, and this is something that is genuine, since I really do love these chicks.. they take care of me, and cook and clean and massage for me, so why wouldn’t I?? These chicks are AWESOME..
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36 Dude, the POINT of being a PUA is to be the EQUIVALENT of a hot HB.. you should STRIVE to have chicks that buy you dinners who think that they can have a shot with you, and that you just slot into the friendship zone.. there is NO WAY that any PUA should be doing his own housework or cooking or paying for massages, unless he CHOOSES to out of personal preferance.. I mean, sex is great and all that, but having this stuff taken care of by female groupies is, IMO, a benefit that is close to as good. Plus its just validating to be cared about by many women, in addition to your sexual partners. Now if you’re in the boat where girls don’t really want to fuck you all the time (this will CHANGE as soon as you amass the social network, since social proof is a total mindfuck for chicks), then focus on just chatting girls about DISARMING shit like: “I hate how like, you know, when we were kids.. guys and girls could just be friends.. and its so complicated now.. I just want to have am ACQUAINTANCE in my life, that I can hang with and chill at parties with.. and invite to parties, and introduce to hang out with my friends” (IOW, play off her superficial desire for popularity) “I love my girlfriend SO MUCH.. we’re SO CLOSE.. My friend cheated on his girlfriend, and I thought what a JERK.. hey, there’s xthing this friday, I’d LOVE for you to HANG OUT with my group of friends, and we could do x-platonic-activity..” And just do shit like that, until you have at least 5-10 female friends who LOVE you so much, and desperately NEED you in their life. oh yeah, another big thing is that its good to talk to them like you’re a CHICK yourself.. so use them for emotional fulfillment.. talk about all your problems to them, and let them comfort you.. emotionally leech off of them the same way that chicks who leech off of nice guys “If only I could meet a nice guy!” (as the poor LJBF bastard thinks “I’m nice dammit!! she’ll see it someday, I just know it!”).. tell girls that you can’t meet a nice girl.. and that you want to so bad.. and you’re looking ALL OVER and dating SO MANY girls, just because you CRAVE ROMANCE and LOVE.. that way they can fantasize about how after you’re done with all these “mean bad girls”, you’ll fall for THEM someday and get married.. just so long as they stick with you, and do what you say. then tell them that you love THEM, and that you care about them so much as sisters, and that you couldn’t live without them.. shit like that. reverse the frame that chicks use on “nice guys” I actually really value my pivots, and value their friendship.. I DO care about them, and would help them if they ever needed it.. its also great, because I get all of my emotional needs taken care of, which seems to make me more alpha and aloof in front of chicks that I’m PU’ing.. I don’t seem needy, because I have my emotional needs taken care of always by my pivots.
SOCIAL INTELLIGENCE – VIBING Social Intelligence. Having struggled so hard to learn it, I have so much to say on this topic. In this post I’d like to specifically discuss social vibing and insecurity (a very focused, but important peice of the puzzle). There are many subcommunications that are being telegraphed at all times in any interaction. Both verbal and non-verbal. Social interactions have features and customs that I suppose are designed to make them pleasant. As social animals, we have the attribute of actually enjoying socializing just for the sake of socializing. We socially VIBE. People who break the vibe are considered socially unintelligent, and despite being perhaps very good/worthwhile people, they will come across poorly. Most people, once you get to know them, are really worthwhile. I’ve rarely met someone, who when put in a position where I was by circumstance made to get to know them, that I didn’t come to like. So what’s the difference between someone who is COOL and someone who is UNCOOL? The way that they COME ACROSS. Their level of social intelligence. Their ability to CONVEY it. TELEGRAPH it. SUBCOMMUNICATE it. Understanding how to socially vibe telegraphs that you are secure with yourself. Failing to understand telegraphs insecurity. Much of this post assumes that early game is now past, and you are in comfort building (if you use my PU model, if you are using Juggler’s, for example, then this would apply from the very start because he is full rapport).
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37 LAUGHING AS VIBING: Laughter is not only a stress relief mechanism. It’s actualy a social mechanism. Laughter basically shows that your social group is vibing well. Monkeys, while they can’t talk like we can, still laugh when they are in rapport with eachother. Think to when you were telling a joke, and the group vibe was just so TIGHT. The people were starting to laugh before you’d even delivered the punch line. Maybe you said “I haven’t even told the joke yet, and you guys are laughing”. And they can’t figure out why, and they laugh even more as you say this. Also, think of how when you use cocky tactics, girls laugh/giggle. This is a sign that they are wanting to vibe with you. The movie “Goodfellas”, in the scene where Joe Pesci is telling jokes at the restaurant table, and everyone is laughing harder and harder. Ray Liotta can’t stop laughing. It’s not just the humour. It’s the VIBE. People who are not socially intelligent will LAUGH AT THEIR OWN JOKES. They laugh prior to the group starting to laugh. Notice next time that someone laughs at their own joke first. Were you JUST ABOUT to laugh, but then didn’t when they did first? They were attempting to FILL IN THE RAPPORT GAP. When the boss of an office tells a joke, everyone laughs. When the beta male tells it, he worries that nobody will, and laughs at his own joke to fill in the so-called rapport gap. Concentrate on VIBING, and don’t try to artificially push rapport. Better, is to WAIT until the group laughs, and THEN laugh with them. This gap is also seen when people say “right” after all of their sentences. They are trying to FILL IN the “right” that the other person SHOULD have said themself, IF THEY HAD been socially vibing properly.
RHETORICAL SEQUENCING: People, when talking, use weird (when you think about it) rhetorical sequencing. Here is an example: A guy is excited that he got a cheap deal on a coat. GOOD VIBING: GUY: You’ll never guess how much I got this coat for. FRIEND: Wow.. Umm, 200$. GUY: No man. 45$ FRIEND: Wow.. Nice man. BAD VIBING: GUY: You’ll never guess how much I got this coat for. FRIEND: Oh you got a deal. I guess 30$ then. GUY: Umm, actually 45$ FRIEND: Oh.. well that’s not bad. Notice that the friend TELEGRAPHED SUBCOMMUNICATIONS of INSECURITY. His thought process was: “I’ll show GUY that I’m smart. I’m clever enough to pickup on the fact that if he said “You’ll never guess what I paid”, that he got a deal. Then I’ll have shown him that I passed his test.” His INSECURITY caused him to miss out on the social vibing, which was intended to build excitement and wasn’t a test at all. The secure guy, although realizing that the coat was really cheap, would still guess something lower end, but still high enough that if the guy’s deal wasn’t as great as he thought, he’ll still feel good. After all, its bought, so why worry about that stuff (UNLESS you seriously could hookup a massively cheaper deal and return the coat (which the socially intelligent guy would ascertain before even suggesting it), in which case the happiness derived from that would outweigh actually telling the guy that he didn’t get the best deal). ANOTHER EXAMPLE: GOOD VIBING: HB: I just got this crazy shirt. Look at it. PUA: Wow.. Cute! BAD VIBING: HB: I jsut got tihs crazy shirt. Look at it. PUA: Cool.. Hey you know in L.A. that shirt would be nothing. I should bring you there sometime.
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38 ANOTHER EXAMPLE: GOOD VIBING: (Friend1 drives to Toronto for the first time with Friend2) FRIEND1: Wow man, look at that building.. That rocks.. FRIEND2: Whoa.. That’s pretty big dude. BAD VIBING: FRIEND1: Wow man, look at that building.. That rocks.. FRIEND2: Dude, that’s cool.. But man, you should see NYC. Man, NYC KILLS this place. (JLAIX: If you’re reading this, who does this remind you of? HINT: His first name is LERON). Again, with these examples, the person who is not vibing right does not get something: The purpose of the initial comment was NOT to ACTUALLY debate it. It was to SOCIALLY VIBE. The content was not the REAL communication. It was a surface for SUBCOMMUNICATION, which INTENDED to say “Let’s have a nice time, and have rapport with eachother and relax.” The insecure and socially unintelligent person is taking the sentences of the first person, and FIELDING them as OPPORTUNITIES TO QUALIFY HIMSELF.
HEIRARCHIES - ROLE IN SOCIAL INTERACTION: We all get our moment in the sun at some point. You’ll notice, that when you are holding court, that sometimes people will be insecure with that. The secure guy will recognize when its someone’s turn to hold court, and not fight it. A person who is secure will talk to ADD EMPHASIS to a point. He will not DISPUTE a point while someone is holding court. He knows that he’ll have his chance LATER, and that right now someone is trying to get a point across. Guys who are insecure will constantly dispute points whenever they see the opening. They view is at an opportunity to demonstrate their value. They CANNOT RESIST the temptation. For an example that everyone reading this can recoginze, look to this chatboard. Something tight will get posted. Insecure posters will nightpick semantics. Like “While this is important, its maybe an 8 out of 10 level importance. Not a 10 like you said.” The secure poster, if he finds the level of emphasis on a level where its honestly misinformative, might post “I think that x,y,z are really good, man. I think that you might consider less emphasis on it though, because a,b,c are important as well. Good post though man, I like x,y,z” ANOTHER feature you’ll see on this board, and that is in the same vein, are THROWING LITTLE NEGS or TRYING TO COME OFF AUTHORITATIVE WHEN ITS NOT YOUR PLACE.
For example, you’ll see guys trying to get rapport with someone they don’t know by throwing little negs. GOOD VIBING: OLD FRIEND 1: Hey Stevo, you fucking bastard.. C’mere gimme a hug BAD VIBING: NEW ACQUAINTANCE: C’mere you fucker, help me out. The second is BAD vibing, because he is trying to FORCE rapport with subcommunication that is only appropriate of old friends. Similarly, you’ll see guys who try to come off authoritative. You’ll see it on the board, where a guy will post something quality, and someone who doesn’t like him will post “That’s very quality material. Good that you posted something of quality”. It’s like he’s trying to come off authoritative. Like he realizes that he’s negged on the guy on the chatboard, and he feels insecure that the guy he negged produced something worthwhile. So he has to come in and be all authoritative, like “I can show everyone that I recognize a good post”. Guys in real life will see someone who they publically disliked starting to improve himself, and say things like “Good that you’re improving. KEEP IT UP.” By this, they are trying to CONTROL what is happening. They are trying to say “Improve, because I, the AUTHORITY, approved.” More on this... If you’ve ever ever ran a very good presentation at work or school, and you see an insecure person come up to you and criticize. They don’t realize its YOUR TURN TO HOLD COURT. Their turn is LATER. So they throw little negs at you. Like they always have to offer advice on how you could have improved it. They can’t just say “Good job man”. Or they have to nit-pick subtleties. Like they can’t say “That was awesome”. They have to first go over their advise on where you fucked up.
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39 For a real life example that most guys on this board can recognize, when you meet up with another guy from the scene through PAIR, if he’s insecure he’ll do the following: 123-
Talk about game non-stop, rather than PLAY. Watch you do a set, and CRITICIZE on what could be improved, rather than encourage. You tell him about something that happened, and he gives you ADVICE, rather than just listening.
SOCIAL INTERACTION WITH “VIBING” AS THE PRESUPPOSITION, NOT “DISCUSSING AN ISSUE” When socializing, a good vibe will be set when the reason for being there is to enjoy eachother’s company. However, sometimes a bad vibe can be set when the presupposition is that you’re there for a SPECIFIC PURPOSE. Of course, there is nothing wrong with purpose. It has a place, and more of my daily interactions have a purpose than those that are to socially vibe. However, recognizing that tagging a set purpose to an interaction will often stop a nice vibe from occuring, will help with a pickup. Insecure people will often LATCH onto a purpose for the conversation, as a way of maintaining it. Then they’ll leave on a “high note” once that purpose is exhausted. This is a MAJOR cause of flaking. You maintained a conversation with a girl, but the presupposition was that you were discussing an issue. You left on the high note, but didn’t realize that you were actually REINFORCING to the girl that you are not socially compatible. When going to meet up with you again, she’ll think “Well, we really have nothing more to talk about though. I don’t want to have nothing to talk about, because that would feel unfortable” As guys, we don’t care. We might feel nervous that we’ll have nothing to talk about, but we want sex. But girls, if the feel uncomfortable, they won’t show up. That’s one reason why guys who smoke pot get laid alot. Girls rarely flake on them, because they have that social presupposition that will give comfort. For the rest of us who don’t smoke, we use SOCIAL VIBING rather than FORCED social interaction, to maintain comfort. Clinging too strenously to a particular topic can come across insecure. When you say to a friend “Let’s go have a beer”, the subtext is “Let’s go socially vibe”. You don’t go discuss an issue, and say “Let’s reconvene later”. You go and you chill. You have a FRIENDSHIP. Non-party-chicks rarely flake on guys they have both attraction AND friendship with. But they do flake on guys who attract them, tongue them down, and say “Give me your #.”
PRACTICAL FEMALE INTERACTION:
In summary, how does this apply in practical terms? Most of it comes in, during comfort building phase. Or if you use a different PU model than I do, then its when you’re getting to know the girl either way. 1) Don’t crack jokes to the girl, and laugh at them before she does. Wait. You’ll notice that it sometimes takes even 10-15 seconds for a joke to process. But it DOES. I usually bust on her for it “Oh, slow processing time.. That’s OK, you’re my little sister.. I didn’t adopt you for your brains” Also, don’t say “right” after everything. It can come across beta. Right? 2)
When a girl is trying to impress you, RECOGNIZE it as her QUALIFYING herself. If you reject it, you’ll come across insecure, or socially unaware.
This is DIFFERENT than the C&F stuff early, where you break rapport on purpose. In fact, much like how the “25 Points to not trying too hard” assumed that you were in EARLY GAME, this post to some extent at least assumes you are PAST early game. SHARE her excitement by recognizing rhetorical social sequencing. 3)
Recognize when its your turn to talk, and when somebody else is being focused on.
MUCH MUCH of the mid/later game is the chick qualifying herself to you. Because our pickup model encorporates alot of not trying, you’ll notice your best pickups (with NON-party-chicks at least) are with the ones who at some point EARN your attention. They perceive that they’ve WON your interest, and plan to COLLECT THE PRIZE (your dick in their mouth). 4) If a girl tells you about a problem, just LISTEN and change her emotion. Say “Ouch, that’s sounds tough.. But hey, you’re a powerpuff girl, and you know you’re to fiesty to let this stop you.. Let’s check out x,y,z” Definetely don’t offer advice. If she wants advice, she’ll say “WHAT SHOULD I DO?” Unless someone asks me what to do, I rarely offer advice. OR, I say “You know i have experience with this, so maybe later you can ask me about it.”
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40 5)
Focus on SOCIALLY VIBING and don’t CLING TO TOPICS. This will prevent flaking, and make her feel comfortable around you.
Don’t leave on a high note. THERE IS NO HIGHNOTE. There is only vibing and flipping the switches that she needs to have switched in order to fuck you.
I suppose this sort of approach is the “external” way of coming at the problem. The other way of course would be the “internal” way, which would mean improving your inner game so that you’re not needy and you’re not insecure. I think that inner approach is great and has alot of value. At the same time, the externally focused approach is what solved my internal issues, because once I figured out the points of how internally-balanced people acted, I got laid and then started to feel better internally. Like one thing I like to do with newbs is tell the girls from the set I’m in that they have to tongue him down and grab his dick, or I’ll leave and blow them off. Or I’ll tell a girl from a 2set that if her friend isn’t warm to my friend, I’ll leave because he’s bored. The girls do this, and then the newb walks around strutting like he’s the man for the rest of the night. Then he PU’s another separate chick on his own, gets MOMENTUM, and it snowballs. These are extreme cases of the externally focused approach, but just focusing on the mannerisms of successful guys can do the same. At the same time, for alot of guys they really need internal work. Like no success will fix them internally. So I think that both approaches are great. I know Twentysix is now running great game, and he did both externally focused stuff (going out 4 nights a week), as well as seeing a psychologist.
JUST GO OUT AND WATCH Tonight I was feeling a little tired so I chilled out. I was by myself, had girls approaching me, but I just wanted to watch what was going on cause I wasn’t feeling that talkative. So at closing time, I sat back and watched the club and the social dynamics that were going on. Like I sat there looking like I was waiting for someone to come out of the club, and watched while everyone socialized outside the club before going home. I noticed alot of frantic drunk girls, many of them mumbling shit like “I want that guy.. I want to fuck..” and then their friends dragging them away before any guy could hear it. Also, I would see girls just frollicking around. It’s pretty retarded actually. They’re like little kittens in a prairie, walking from one stimulus to the next. It’s like watching 4 year olds on school recess. It was funny watching the way that girls treat guys. They give pretty disinterested bodylanguage to even guys they’re friends with. The way they treat guys is so wack. They totally don’t give a shit, and you can see that guys are just like the next stimulation and not something that they take very seriously in their reality. All the girls just wander around, and then giggle and hug eachother randomly. Fuck, I’m so glad I know this shit and don’t have to get treated like all those dudes. The funny thing also is watching the guys the girls respond to. I’ve known this forever (since its a huge part of my game), but it was funny just watching it. It’s always the guys who don’t react to being groped that the girls grope and grope.
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41 You see the natural players at the end of the night, trying to pull. The girls are drunk, and they’re resisting but the players just keep gaming them and running their shit. It’s like a nature video where the mating shit is getting worked out. You can see as some players understand how to effect them emotionally, while others will crack and use some logical reasoning to move them, which doesn’t work. Or some players don’t have a firm gameplan on where to take them (since they can’t say “let’s go home”), and the girl will be about to leave, but he’s indecisive and her logical brain re-engages and she’s like “actually I’ll just catch you later”. Boom, easy come easy go. It’s like deals are being negotiated. You also see these 2sets of chicks who will sit there looking bored, just waiting for guys to approach them. And you see guys who are leaning in or buying beers or boring them, not getting anywhere. But sometimes you see these guys who will run the set properly, and the set will naturally split from a 4way convo to two 2way convos (this is a NATURAL element of buying temperature in 2sets, where the convo will split if they both like you and girlcode that to eachother.. I can FAKE this also by FORCING a split, which my wingmen know that the second I disengage the group and focus only on one chick, that means that its time for them to engage their one chick). It’s funny though, to watch this go down. The interesting thing is that the guys who have game arne’t using that much great verbal material. Although they are C&F, the girls are giggling just from nothing, because they are SUBCOMMUNICATING the right things through bodylanguage/tonality. Alot of the natural guys hold back, or even cross their arms, coming across like they’re judging the girls, and deciding whether or not to unlock for them. Of course I can do all this shit 10X better than the naturals, because I’m so conscious of it. So I can consciously manipulate my subcommunication, which rocks. Also, you see alot of natural alphamales grabbing the girls and carrying them over their shoulders, and yelling shit and doing dumb playful shit like hipbumping the girls and being funny in a nonsense sort of way. You see they don’t really care about anybody and don’t regard anybody much, and they just yell nonsensical shit, and then the girls start crawling all on them. At the same time, you see they don’t have the skills to pull like this, because the girls still wind up leaving alone. Another thing I noticed was (again, I’ve known this forever) that the guys who have the most booming tonality are the ones people pay attention to. Alphamales have resonous noise-clutter-cutting voices. They speak from the diaphragm and its cuts over all the other noise, without it sounding like they’re yelling. I do this also, its a huge part of my game. I can talk in a way that will be heard all around me, but doesn’t come across like I’m yelling. Notice also that when you YELL at a chick in a funny way, she starts giggling uncontrollably and grabbing you. It’s like when girls get all hyper and yell dumb shit like “AAAAHHH.. I’M SO DRUNK” and her friends will scream with her. It’s so fucked up. I do this shit on girls all the time. I yell shit like “HOW DO YOU GUYS ROLL WITH HER?!?!?”, and “I’M NOT TALKING TO YOU ANYMORE.. YOU’RE TOO WEIRD!!” (to 10s who I’m deep in set with) You can also see that nobody has the guts to come to the venue alone. Everyone came with friends. The little bodylanguage twitches are so interesting. The way girls face guys, and what SPECIFIC actions/bodylanguage/tonality/gimmicks/topics/indifference (the last one in particular) cause girls to face the guy and pay more attention to him. And you can see the more beta guys who put their arms around the girls, and the girls grip is loose, but the guy is holding her of his own force. The more alpha guys will hold her, but will disengage it first and will turn around and look at their friends and not give a shit, and the girl will say something to get his attention back and then he’ll re-initiate. All fun to watch. Anyway, it was interesting to me personally. Not sure if this is of any interest to anyone else.
LOW KEY VS HIGH IMPACT PU There are different styles of PU, that require you to act differently. If you guys remember my old “Jamie Lee Curtis Opener”, you’ll know that I walk up and say something like: “I saw the most fascinating thing today..” and go off into this Jamie Lee Curtis story I read about. Another good one is “I just saw the new Lord of the Rings movie” (this works with ANY movie that is POP-CULTURE, and she’ll be curious about it regardless of whether or not she wants to see it.. “Matrix Reloaded” will work this summer) These is a LOW KEY approaches. I am getting her into chat in a low-key way. I’m not shocking her, I’m just initiating convo. Both openers auger well with GMW (Gunwitch Method) pickups. You can just walk in, initiate a conversation, and start projecting a sexual state. She’ll pickup on this AMAZING CHEMISTRY that she has for you, and the boring convo will seem CHARGED to her. The new Maniac Plan has alot of this sort of stuff in it. There’s also an old post by Neo-Rio that has good stuff for this, called “Essence of PU Plan” (parts 1 and 2). These are just small talk, although SOME of the lines are NOT neutral enough for GMW (since using GMW REQUIRES neutral talk so that her sexual state can’t be broken by intrigue/curiousity/hummour/romance/etc). One drawback of the low-key approach is getting LJBF’ed. The HIGH IMPACT approach is very different. You use it to STOP superfly hot chicks in their tracks, to get them talking.
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42 If I’m in a grocery store, I’ll say “hey, do you know where the natural peanut butter is??? NO??!?! You’re not allowed to shop here unless you know....... I’m serious” Or I’ll pickup the cat food and say “this is SOOO good!.... I mean for my cats.. what did YOU think I meant??” Then I’ll pretend that she’s retarded and fake that I’m about to walk off, and she’ll say “no no no no” and I’ll come back. These are CREATIVE MISINTERPRETATIONS, where I tease her and make fun of her in a way that SHOWS that I am not needy and willing to walk away. It is playful but yet shows no fear and hard-to-get-ness. The point is that these are COCKY FUNNY. Notice that if you said these lines to a GUY that he would think you’re retarded or something. But I can crack girls up with this shit CONSISTENTLY. WHY??? Because them laughing is an acknowledgement that I am DOMINANT and they are SUBMISSIVE. It’s FLIRTING. Right now I have this down so well, that I can consistently have either lone or groups of chicks laughing their heads off. I can literally do ANYTHING and they’ll just laugh. Most other ASFers who meet me are always shocked by how much I can get away with, and how chicks laugh at anything that I say in a very submissive way. I’ll even walk up and pull their hair smack them up (not too hard). They LOVE it. They laugh to show submissiveness, because you are FLIRTING. Your C&F comments are the SAME as flexing your muscles. It’s a display of alphaness, and gives her a feeling of SECURITY because she feels like you aren’t NEEDY, since you’re obviously not afraid to walk. One downside to this sort of approach is that you often don’t get rapport. You have a NASTY choice to make: Do I REWIND and have some small talk to get rapport, or do I go for the JUGGULAR RIGHT NOW and close it??? I guarantee that if you contact close using EXCLUSIVELY C&F, you will get alot of flakes. The chicks are attracted at the TIME, but when they get home, they think “he’ll fuck me FOR SURE if I get together with him.... AM I READY FOR THIS????” So you either have to rewind and get RAPPORT, or try to !close it right there. Anyway, if you guys have read my FRs, you’ve seen me use alot of C&F ballbusting.. Since I don’t post my LRs, I usually only post something that I personally find interesting or funny (I use ASF sort of as my personal journal in that way)... So naturally there’s alot of the C&F crazy shit, since I think that its more interesting than a chat that lead to something spicier. However, I DO use the low-key approach as well. You just need a HOOK to get her talking in a low-key way, and you can attract by turning it either into a romantic moment (just through your composure and sophistication and maybe some other stuff) or a sexually charged chemistry bath (using GMW). Another BIG problem with the HIGH IMPACT approach for guys who want to lay any attractive chick REGARDLESS of her personality, is that you SCREEN the non HSE (high self esteem) chicks. So IOW, if you go high-impact, the chicks who KNOW that they are not sharp-witted enough to keep up with you will get upset. ALSO, another big one is that lower calibre chicks (or even hot chicks with LSE and perceive themselves to be lower calibre) will interpret your high-impact flirting as INSULTING. The reason that its insulting, is that high-impact pickups are typically (for non-ASFers) reserved for HOT chicks, being PU’ed by cool guys. When you use a high-impact approach on a lower-calibre chick, she interprets that in the SAME way that a fat chick will interpret “you are beautiful”.. She will think that you are MOCKING her, and REMINDING her that she isn’t hot. It is IMPOSSIBLE to PU an UG using high impact stuff, in my personal experience. I personally LIKE the screening of non-HSE chicks, but that’s PERSONAL TASTE. Many guys get frusterated by it. However, often REALLY high calibre chicks who KNOW the game, and who have been played by players in the past will ONLY want the LOW-KEY approach, because its more genuine in their deluded opinion. OK, this is confusing, but anyone with alot of experience will recognize alot of this. For those with less experience, it may make things more clear to you when you’re doing PU.
INDIRECT VS DIRECT Be it right or wrong, this is my understanding of the indirect vs direct theory debate, and my views on it. There is a SWITCH in a girls mind that says YES or NO the SECOND she detects either a verbal or non-verbal signal of interest. By using direct approach theory (being up front about your desires), she may find this sexually appealing, because you're being confident unlike other guys, and just going for it. This ALONE may cause the switch to trigger to 'YES'. Thus, direct approach theory CAN work. You are attempting to knock down the girl in one move – being upfront. However, if it is not immediately switched, IME, the chick will switch it to 'NO'. For example, MRSEX4UNYC advises this sytem, because his game is to WEED OUT girls that aren't at near buying temperature RIGHT NOW. This suits his lifestyle, and I don't dispute it gets him many lays. For me, I ENJOY chasing harder to get girls, so I devise this system to get me the girls that I'm interested in. SO, the difference in the systems are based NOT on whether or not they WORK. Rather, they are based on different pickup GOALS. For me personally, I also enjoy indirect approach, because it can STILL work for girls who were at buying temperature, because I have a good intuition to recognize buying temperature and exploit it. So it works in BOTH cases for me either way.
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43 Not that direct approach theory CAN'T get you harder to get girls. However, it is important to understand that you've flipped the switch immediately off the opener, and you now risk working against the current instead of with it (her chasing, vs her screening) Likewise, indirect will still get you the easy girls so long as you recognize the easy/willing-prey and exploit it fast. In public gatherings, I prefer to HOLD OFF the signal of interest in every way possible, and first CONVEY STATUS and COOL stuff about myself. That way, I can be direct LATER if I want, and STILL get the same "this guy goes for what he wants, he is alpha" thing. However, I'm doing it AFTER she has earned it by chasing and qualifying herself to me, rather than before. She has MORE TO GO ON to make her decision to flip the switch YES or NO, because she not only says "he's alpha for being direct, so I'll say yes after I screen him", but she's looking at all the good stuff that I've conveyed PRIOR to making her flip the switch and she's chased me PRIOR to having flipped it. The notion that "if you're indirect you'll be LJBF'ed" is no longe relevant for me personally, because I could NEVER be put into th friendship zone. The reason is that I don't convey LJBF qualitie anymore (like back when I was AFC), so even if I don't go immediately sexual with her, she STILL finds me attractive, and therefore when I DO, I haven't done anything to bar myself OUT of sexual communication with her, so its still EQUALLY as effective to if I'd flipped the switch right on the opener. The idea that indirect approach theory will not close is based on the principle that somehow by not being upfront, the chick PERMANENTELY classifies you as non-sexual material. This is flat out not the case in my experience, but maybe for guys who are still new to field work, they suffer from this because they don't have the alpha stuff internalized well enough, so they HAVE to rely on direct approach theory to be considered as a sexual prospect by the girl. Either way, for PUAs well into their carreers, the risk of LJBF should be non-existent, by virtue of their internalized mannerisms. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN OPINION OPENER AND A WHERE DID YOU GET THAT OPENER: An opener like the DAVID BOWIE OPENER or BLONDE HAIR OPENER is very DIFFERENT than what does that shirt mean?, or how are you. WHY??? They are both QUESTIONS right??? NO. They are 180 degrees DIFFERENT. Please FOLLOW ME HERE. The KEY to a PICKUP is **SUCKING THE GIRL INTO YOUR REALITY**. When you ask a question about DAVID BOWIE, its something that YOU want to know. When you ask about HER, you are IMMEDIATELY CAPITULATING, and not making her EARN your attention. This can WORK on CERTAIN chicks of course. But it is NOT a good PICKUP STRATEGY for a pickup ARTIST. Again, asking her about anything that detracts from YOUR REALITY is BAD. So STICK to the STRUCTURE of the openers that I discussed in the how to sarge for real post. EXAMINE the STRUCTURE of those openers, and make up NEW ONES whenever youre bored with the ones suggested. PRODDING HER TO SHIT TEST YOU - **INDUCING** HER SHIT TESTING MECHANISM: The BEST and most RELIABLE way to get laid that I personally know of is to INDUCE the chick to shit test you. This is the NEXT STEP of the PU, after the opener, when PUing girls with certain personality types (basically, most hotties.. the exception are girls who are very down to earth and secure, don’t believe in stupid shit like ESP, etc etc.. those girls are the HARDEST to PU, because they KNOW the deal and dont succumb to emotions to easily.. for them, the best strategy is to use this SAME STUFF, but at the same time to be very ATTUNED to her and MODERATE) OK, this may sound strange, but there is no bigger KISS OF DEATH in the PU than when the chick is being NICE to you. For example, if you see a chick who you knew in high school, the BEST way to pick her up is to NOT BRING UP that you already know her. BETTER, is to just PU her like NORMAL. Worse case scenario, YOU are left in the power position, since she remembered YOU. But if you bring it up, then she instantly OPENS up to you, and is therefore DISENGAGED sexually. This is not necessarily a RULE, but a sweeping generalization that I have seen in field many times (chick likes me, convo is sexually charged, I bring up that I know her, convo shifts to how have you been and chemistry falls flat). I was hanging out with Mysterys ex-girlfriend the other night. This 511 megabomb. She was laughing at how guys will chat her for a few hours, THINKING that theyre getting somewhere, when really shes just in the mood to CHAT. The problem they havent ENGAGED her LIMBIC BRAIN, and she isnt SHIT TESTING, to see if they are WORTHY. For me, the answer is to go PUSH PULL, ASAP. That means QUALIFYING, TEASING, and JOKING about being together, and broken up, again and again. Learn to be the MASTER of PUSH-PULL. I am a master of it now, and I FULLY CREDIT the innovative C&F masters SWINGCAT, KOOPER, BADBOY, ZAN, STYLE, DAVID D, and many others I picked up great lines and attitudes from, for helping me to get where I am with it. Heres an EXAMPLE of a STRUCTURE, which should of course have OTHER STUFF worked into it (IOW, dont follow this to the letter, but use it as a skeleton): Roll up on her, make funny faces, smile and hit her, and wrap your arm around her (kino-opener, described many times in operation mayhem posts).. you are CUTE.. I think that youll make a NICE new GIRLFRIEND.. hahah, hey WAIT.. I need a girl who can cook.. you cant?? OK, were broken up.. actually wait, you DO smell good.. very alluring.. actually WAIT!! do you eat SOAP??? oh man, we are BROKEN UP.. no no, definitely broken up.. you are BAD.. hahaha, for sure!!.. are you adventurous?? cause I cant even hang with you unless youre adventurous.. mmm,. that does sound adventurous.. alright we can hang, but I cant take you to my COOL places because you might just be PG-13 adventurous, not R-rated adventurous.. really, you did X-ACTIVITY?? hmm.. OK maybe youre cool.. oh man, imagine if we ran away and did X-ADVENTURE (make up a 1-2 minute Bonnie & Clyde type adventure) together.. and we could STEAL this X-STUFF (whatever is in front of you) and SELL IT.. No?? OK Im taking THIS then! (grab HER shit, and shell WRESTLE you for it).. haha, OK fine, I wont do that.. I have a better plan.. I need a RICH girl.. are YOU?? no?? do you have cable though?? SWEET, I can watch daytime SOAPS.. NICE!! OOOOOH MAN, we are getting MARRIED RIGHT NOW.. Will you MARRY ME??? OMG I am SO SERIOUS, well get married RIGHT NOW.. (then have a person in the room pretend to MARRY the two of you, and you exchange items together like rings or something, and kiss AT LEAST on the cheek)... OK AWESOME, now that were married I can DIVORCE you and live in your house and watch DAYTIME TV.. What this does is ENGAGES her sexually, and then DISENGAGES her sexually, over and over and over. Its not like if you say youre my new girlfriend.. lets make plans to go out.. lets make plans to be together.. lets be together, which would be PULL, PULL, PULL, PULL. She would RESIST that strategy 9 times out of 10. By doing PUSH PULL, her limbic brain is ENGAGED, but then DISENGAGED before she has a chance to RESIST. The result will be like a FISH, who you reel in, let fight and let out slack, reel in more, let fight more, reel in more, etc etc etc etc.. It gets her HOT, but the PUSH disarms her RESISTANCE, before you proceed to PULL again. KEEP DOING THIS AS LONG AS NECESSARY until she SHIT TESTS you. Look up the dissecting shit test passing measures post, to INTERNALIZE the STRUCTURE of passing a shit test in DETAIL. The short of it is: 1) AGREE to the shit test 2) CREATIVELY MISINTERPRET the shit test as her saying she WANTS YOU 2a) In some situations, tell her that despite that, she still cannot have you unless she meets x-qualification
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44 HER: youre a player YOU: yeah... so what is it about players that turns you on so much **OR** 1) AGREE to the shit test 2) Use CALLBACK humour to misinterpret your actions in a funny way HER: do you plan this stuff? YOU: yeah.. I even plan to go out and meet little POWERPUFF girls (or whatever NEG you used earlier.. CALLBACK the neg you used earlier) The POINT of this, is that you KEEP JOKING that you are together apart together apart, until you ENGAGE her LIMBIC BRAIN, which she will REACT by SHIT TESTING YOU. Since you INTERNALIZE how to PASS the shit tests techniques, and you pass with PERFECT SCORE, she will become aroused very quickly, and attempt to GET RAPPORT with you. You will know that she is at her BOILING point when she gives you a SIGN. A SIGN is like when she says whats your name?, or what do you do?, or where do you come from? She is LEANING IN, and showing strong interest Wide eyes, open body language, facing you, etc etc etc.. So that is my personal favourite way to PROJECT VALUE being COCKY PLAYFUL. However, this is not the ONLY WAY to project value. A second way would to be learn STRONG SS/Patterning skills, and lead her imagination to all sorts of wild and arousing places. Eliciting past sexual excitement and pushing her through those states. She anchours those feelings to YOU. Personally I dont think its overly effective for the younger party girls that I deal with, but it IS a feasible plan. Apparently a good way with Asian girls A third way is to learn magic/mentalism/gimmicks/routines/stories, that INTRIGUE and FASCINATE the chick. Basically, this is using PERSONALITY CONVEYANCE. You could also just have a great sense of humour, and be good at conveying that in front of chicks. A fourth way is to use the above stuff (or ANYTHING) to get SOCIAL PROOF, and impress her with the fact that you are the CENTRE OF ATTENTION, and that you are UNIMPRESSED with her. You DEMONSTRATE that with NEUTRAL comments that youd make to ANYONE, and that show your disregard your targets beauty, like NEGS. Or by just ENJOYING yourself at the venue, for everyone else to see that youre arent trying too hard. That makes you a CHALLENGE, and you therefore present value THAT WAY. A fifth way is just to have AMAZING RAPPORT. SOME guys can PU using JUST rapport building skills, although I have yet to MEET any that can do it CONSISTENTLY Im still sure that there is somewhere out there (Juggler???). Point is though, that just being both an obviously SEXUAL MAN, and being able to get the girl to VALUE the rapport/friendship, can be enough to get chicks to sleep with you, if you do it in a way where she KNOWS that sex is part of the package to continuing her involvement with you. This can be done MRSEX4UNYC method, by getting under her hood, and finding out how her engine works, etc etc.. A sixth way is to convey ULTIMATE SEXUALITY, through Gunwitch style SEXUAL STATE PROJECTION. Read and INTERNALIZE the GUNWITCH METHOD, and you can sometimes just roll up on chicks with NEUTRAL TALK, and through just seeming so damned SEXUAL, she will find you indescribably appealing.. She wont know WHY, but for some reason you just really turn her on. She feels this unexplainable explosive chemistry. A seventh way is to PEACOCK, which conveys that you are MYSTERIOUS, and OUTRAGEOUS. You are DIFFERENT. Peacocking is the ULTIMATLY FAST way to attract women of the HIGHEST CALIBRE, because you are INSTANTLY the guy that shes been waiting for. You just need the ATTITUDE to back it up. YOU have to wear the CLOTHES. The CLOTHES cant wear YOU. On some days when I peacock, I have the 9.5 chicks FLOCKING me wherever I go, because they are SICK of GENERIC guys, and think that you might be JUST THE GUY shes waited for. To peacock, you cant just dress REALLY COOL. You have to dress OUT- FUCKING-RAGEOUS. You have to have shit people have never even SEEN in their ENTIRE LIVES. The stuff you are wearing has to look RIDICULOUSLY OUTRAGEOUS, but your attitude MAKES it cool. If youre peacocked properly, there should be people pulling you over for PHOTOS, and the FIRST thing that everyone should say to you is that is SOOO cool.. You know how strippers hear the SAME THING from EVERYONE??? What do your parents think etc etc.. You know how a writer always hears x was so amazing etc etc??? This is because they give a MIND BENDING IMPRESSION, so peoples STATES are instantly ALTERED in their presence. If you met your HERO right now, could you act NORMAL around him/her?? Probably not. Youd say something generic, like I loved your last work, because you couldnt think of anything better to say, out of mental paralysis. That is the effect that PEACOCKING is intended to have. It ELICITS EMOTIONAL STATES from your targets, INSTANTLY. Look at celebs. Their clothes are like CARTOON CHARACTERS. You cant even FIND these clothes. They are CUSTOM. The are FANTASY FIGURES, and when they are in public, the entire room SHIFTS attention to THEM. Turn YOURSELF into one of these figures, through peacocking, and you present VALUE to the chick. My FAVOURITE part about peacocking is that chicks will come up to you and say that outfit is soooo awesome, to which you can respond with hmm.. thanks... sooo, you ready to get out of here? (credit Craig) and get her LAUGHING.. then you say your clothes are kind generic.. how do I know that I can hang with you?? what do you have going for you?? Are you adventurous?? and start SWINGCAT-style qualifying, and run the push-pull routine that I posted above.. An EIGHTH way is to be DIRECT. I DISAGREE with this method and do NOT use it 99% of the time. I dont use it myself that much, but it DOES work sometimes HOWEVER, for OLDER WOMEN being direct is VERY value-conveying, because it shows that you are ALPHA and go for what you WANT. They are finally mature enough to appreciate you being GENUINE. Again, I DISLIKE this method, but it WORKS on CERTAIN chicks. I just wanted to tell you, that you have an incredible energy, is the kind of crap that is useful here. You look like someone Id like to meet (credit TokyoPUA), is a good one for being direct. I DO use DIRECT approaches in cases of STRONG APPROACH INVITATION, and the TPUA line is a good one for that situation. Typically, older chicks (like late 20s and up) will APPRECIATE a man who isnt playing games and is GENUINE in his intentions. Since he is being DIRECT, it is IMPLICIT that he has had past success, and it social proofs him implicitly. Thus conveying value. STILL, this puts her in the DRIVERS seat in some ways, so you have to FRAME IT PROPERLY. Do it in a way that STILL shows that you are NOT going to tolerate ANY bullshit, and although you find her SEXUAL, she still needs to convey value HERSELF. ALL OF THESE THINGS PROJECT VALUE. Personally, I think a sarge is going BEST when Im getting SHIT TESTED. BUT, its not NECESSARY all the time. You may have had APPROACH INVITATION without even NOTICING IT, and consequently she wont shit test. Anyway, the POINT here is that rather than focusing on just getting a smooth # close, focus on PROJECTING VALUE onto
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45 yourself. The best way that I know is to PROD HER TO SHIT TEST YOU using INSTANT comments about the two of you being together and breaking up, because when she starts shit testing you in response to this, and you pass shit tests, you really project a LOT of sexual value in a short period of time. She thinks WHO-IS-THIS-GUY???? And then she tries to GET RAPPORT with you. The KEY is to ATTRACT her to WANT to get rapport with you. NOT this bullshit like TRYING to get rapport RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE. This is BULLSHIT, and anyone who says that they lay HOT chicks like this consistently is either an anomaly (like has something unusual going for them), good looking, or exaggerating. The closest thing to an exception would be Gunwitch method, but even guys using Gunwitch method are STILL doing something to project value FIRST, through their sexual state projection. Dont GIVE IT AWAY too fast. Read my posts on changing gears as a MUST READ for this, because it took me a while to figure it out. Dont switch into rapport the second she tries to get it. But show SIGNS that you are switching gears, and let her EARN your eventual gear switch.
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KEY DISTINCTION – INTRIGUE VS ATTRACTION There are different ways to run sets. The classic MM way is to use intrigue based routines, like talking about relationships and the unknown, to captivate a set. By doing so, you can use active ignorance on the sets. Notice that the Mystery archive contains not so much C&F-teases, but rather, they contain SELF ESTEEM NEGS. A C&F NEG is like “You’re like my little sister” or “You’re like a little powerpuff girl” or “hands off the merchandise” or she’s “a sexual predator” or telling her to support you or to get lost. OTOH, a SELF ESTEEM NEG is like “That’s a nice dress. That’s really popular these days” or “A model? What, a hand model?” or “You have something on your face/teeth/hair.. Here” or “Your nose wiggles when you talk” or blowing your nose in front of her (like you don’t care enough to even hide it from her). Notice though, and this is very important, that the first type of C&F neg is actually YOU giving her an indicator of your interest in her. As guys, we’d think the opposite, because calling a hottie a powerpuff girl is showing her that we’re willing to walk away from her, and not seek her approval. Right? Nope. These things are actually sexual subcommunication. Like David DeAngelo says, they are the secret sub language of attraction that girls respond to. If a girl walks up to you and says that your shirt sucks, this is an IOI. We know this. Why? Because if a girl isn’t attracted to you, she won’t even acknowledge you, let alone tease you. Notice that if a girl does this, you can just tease her back open, run game, and seduce. The same goes for girls. They know that when you use this stuff, you’re just using a classic European style game on them. The classic european style of “natural” game is similar to what I use (my version is just the European version on steroids, combined with other tactics thrown in). It’s flirting. Where you’re saying “get lost”, but really subcommunicating “I’m alpha, look at me sexually, I’m interested”). Well, this is sort of a sweeping generalization. You guys get the point, anyway. So the distinction here is: Classic European C&F natural style game: • • • •
you can approach the target, so long as you hold the sets attention so they don’t LJGD (let’s just go dance) you. if you have the social value (you are dressed cool for the scene, and you seem like a cool enough guy for her to ALLOW you to engage her in this sort of flirting, so she’s willing to take the time to verbally spart/flirt with you), then you can run this sort of game rather than befriending, you blow out and out-alpha AMOG the people around you, to up your status this is a great way to “fool’s mate/ONS” a chick, and it can also lead to more, but it generates attraction so quickly that you can have difficulty with buyer’s remorse, and you also have a harder time shifting to rapport/comfort/connection
Classic MM style game: • •
you avoid the target, and hold the target’s peergroup with total intrigue they give you social proof because what you’re doing is intriguing, and this makes the target observe that you are socially proofed (you can also merge sets and get social proof prior to opening the desired set) • you use self-esteem negs to lower the targets self-esteem, and crave your attention to re-validate herself • you can phase shift into rapport more easily, because the interaction wasn’t “out of control giggly party mode” • •
you befriend the people around you, so they push the girl on you you don’t get as many ONS/fool’s mate, although you still get it - the two are just more conducive to their respective outcomes, but that DOES NOT mean that you won’t get both GFs and ONS with BOTH methods, so let’s please not see retarded posts down the line from KJs who think that pickup is this black and white, because its not! :)
Now I know that Mystery and Style use a more classic MM style, where as I use a more European natural game style. In fact, because we all hang out, we have started incorporating massive amounts of eachother’s styles into our games, and made them stronger. I personally find that the European style game is harder to execute on the hardest targets, because if they’re hard 10s (models, strippers, and such), if you walk up and start going C&F, they’ll just ignore you. They don’t give a fuck. Why? Because even if you’re ten times cooler than the average guys, guess what? There are STILL a lot of very good looking, rich, socially proofed guys, who ALSO have your C&F type stuff down (they do it naturally), who will outgame you. At the same time, how OFTEN do you see a hard HB10? RARE. So I don’t focus on gaming them, although I CAN and know how. Still, its nice to know how to do it. Take when I was in Whistler BC, skiing at BlackComb with Papa and Twentysix and Alphamale. This was a month ago. I try to go C&F on this smoking hot HB10 waitress. I’m in my generic ski gear. She giggles a bit, but really I don’t want to mentally masterbate - it wasn’t really going anywhere.
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47 Then I sit down, and I think “She’s just not a giggly girl maybe”. haa, WRONG! I just couldn’t accept that Mr. Coolguy PUA that I am, wasn’t coming across good enough for her. The proof? Ten minutes later, the lead singer of the most popular Canadian rap group (Swollen Members, a cool group that will be mainstream in the U.S. probably next year) walks in. He ignores her. Haa! The dude doesn’t give a fuck. I personally know of at least 3 girls who have slept with this guy, that I’ve met while I’m out. This guy gets so much ass that he could care less about yet another HB10 trying to get with him. He just wants his beer and to chill with his friends after a long day of skiing. btw, I got a picture with him, and with Sum 41, and with The Black Eyed Peas recently. I use these in my photo routine now. I looked like a lame fan for asking for pics, but who cares - I wanted to build my photo routine. Anyway, this dude has the social value to play up the active disinterest, and get her chasing him. MAN, this girl was chasing him. Point is, if I would have just gone in there, and taken over all her friends and ignored her, I probably could have done the same (until the rap star rolled in I guess though!). But I went European style game, and I got her to giggle a bit and then lost her. This is what Mystery means when he says “A 10 must choose YOU. You cannot choose a 10.” In truth, alot of 10s are “soft” 10s, and you can game them straight up. But others, you need to play up the active disinterest, and takeover her social group and ignore her and lower her self esteem. KEY POINTS IN CONCLUSION: Most guys on this site have piles of C&F material, but lack in intrigue based material. Having the ability to hold a set WITHOUT relying on getting them all giggly with shocking C&F type stuff is something that most guys on here are lacking, and need to cultivate. I have alot of routines where I talk about fascinating studies that were done, or interesting things that I’ve seen that relate to the girls. I have cool bar bets and shit like that, or cool pictures - all of which hold their attention. These things don’t have the girls freaking out giggling, which doesn’t make for as flashy of a pickup. BUT, it does make for a more solid game. Most importantly, it gets the girl chasing you. She’s thinking “This guy is really cool, and he’s a bit C&F also so he’s alpha, but mostly he’s really cool and he’s not interested in me and my self esteem is down because of the embaressing things he noticed.” As opposed to a straight up European style game, where you just plow the shit out of her buying temperature with piles of C&F, and going for the juggular in terms of ONS, and if she doesn’t bite that same night, you have little or no connection with her and will probably wind up with a flake for the day 2. At the same time, most of my game is a European based game, and I turn on the other stuff at different times. I use BOTH, and use them based on the type of girl and the condition. I’ve seen Mystery try to play solid game on girls that I know he could have ONS’ed. At the same time, I’ll often turn great girls that could have been my girlfriends into party chicks that go mental, and then I lose them down the line. We all have our own sticking points to overcome, and everyone playing the game (in real life, not the internet) has real sticking points and places that they could improve. Anyone who says that they don’t have sticking points is probably not really in the field. I’d encourage everyone to post about their sticking points (I saw Pheremone doing that recently, and I think people should follow that example), and focusing on filling in the gaps in their game. For guys who lack intrigue based material, I’d encourage you guys to seek it out, test it, and PLEASE post about it so I can steal it for my own sets! :)
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SETS VIA ENERGY/MATERIAL VS STRENGTH OF FRAME It is recommended that new guys learn material and routines because they are usually unable to hold conversations with women, and by creating a consistent 40 minute set they will get experience interacting with women on cold approaches. Without creating a set, it is unlikely that majority of newer guys will have much success, because their lack of experience will be very apparent to the girls. They will convey many social cues that will indicate this to the girls. Even for myself, I can tell a guys’ success levels within 2-3 minutes of meeting him, and the girls are even more intuitive on this topic. So what winds up happening, is that inexperienced guys wind up going up to girls, and saying “Hi, what’s your name? Where are you from? Umm, so yeah, what are you up to?” This, combined with hundreds of little vocal inflections/pacings/projections and bodylanguage cues, will usually add up to the girl instinctually blowing the poor newbie very quickly. That’s because the newbie has no value either in subcommunicative expression, or in what he’s saying being interesting. By using routines and high energy levels, guys learn to hold sets, and will gain experience under their belts. Because the material is field tested as being high octane, they will hold sets in spite of their poor inner game and its external bodylanguage and vocal manifestations. Within a few weeks, they will see spuratic success (albeit mental masterbation, but this is fine so long as internally they feel good about it) and on a subconscious level their inner game will improve and this will improve things on an external level. At this point, though they may or may not realize it, they no longer require routines or material to hold sets. Moreover, they were likely using as a crutch a very high energy level in sets in order to hold their attention. This is a common learning of newbies, that a high energy and an intense enthuasm level in sets will hold the girls’ attention. With time, their tonality will even out and become smoother. Their projection will increase and their vocal inflections will hit spikes at the right times and they’ll come across better. Their bodylanguage will naturally take up more space, and their facial expressions will react differently to shit tests and to escalations than they did previously. On the non-verbal level, their social intelligence will increase, and they will become sharper with their humour, and more savvy as to what constitutes something that adds energy to the interaction versus something that is a manifestation of their insecurity or neediness (which many people don’t realize is something that they subcommunicate with so much of what they say - 95%+ of people screw this up at some point during the interaction). And as that all gets better, they will be thrown into situations where the interaction escalates, and without experience most guys will botch this sort of scenario. Game is often a sort of hyper attention. A situation where the energy level in the interaction heats up. Chemistry, passion, etc.. The sorts of things that lead to the desired end goal. For newer guys, the energy of the situation will often be a lot to handle, without the experience. They will field it improperly, because they will either fail to maintain eye contact (this happens surprisingly often during late phases and even now with top level girls I sometimes feel the social pressure getting to me), or they will stutter and be unable to slow down the tempo and smoothly gear everything down to properly phase shift. They will fall backwards in the schedule, and their internal incongruencies will come to the surface. Many will eject and rationalize that they didn’t want to anyway, to retain their satisfaction that they got further than they previously did. The window to phase shift and go sexual has closed, and will never be opened again. But with time this will change also. Everything will become congruent, and the snowball of social success both with women and in general will begin to increase and will finally gel into something worthwhile. This all comes from experience, and there’s nothing that I know of that will achieve this level of transformation other than experience. Intense experience, to be exact. That means enough repetition that the increase is inevitable. Having made this kind of transformation, guys will not need to use a high energy level or even material to hold a set. It will come naturally, because they will subcommunicate higher social value. People possess a natural tendency to gravitate towards those with high social status. We feel the energy of their presence. On a subconscious level, we know that they exert a large degree of social control, and that they have influence over our existence whether we like it or not. When in the room with even a B-Class celebrity, most people will feel a sort of nervousness, whether they like it or not. They will be likely to socialize with them regardless of how interesting they are, because they’re just curious to see how they might benefit. These kinds of guys don’t need much to hold attention. But even without this status, the average guy can learn to subcommunicate the same things. BE the guy who holds attention. The same vibe will be projected by guys with a wealth of field experience. That’s the reason why, as counter intuitive as it seems, its actually possible for a guy to improve in this area of his life. In time, they will learn to project that same kind of high social status subcommunication, and they will not need formalized material in order to hold sets. They can also chill out their game, and slow it down. Their game can become very smooth, and the sets will go just as well as when they were over the top with energy and material. At this point, its a good idea to shift focus seeing what kind of results you can get without any formal material. This will change selfperception, because it causes the realization that “THIS IS ME, NOT MY MATERIAL, THAT INTERESTS PEOPLE”. Having accomplished that and having become congruent with that crucial internal shift, bringing back in material is extremely useful. I have read many posts on this board claiming that material should be dropped once the newbie has gained experience, and I agree only to the extent that it should be dropped temporarily. For example, I can hold a set no matter what. There is no way I can be blown out of set. It is just impossible at this point. I can linger around a set like a weirdo, and still open. I can open fairly often in front of huge 10 guy cockfarms who are making the set uncomfortable on dark streets after bar hours. I can open moving targets who have places to be. I can open with something stupid and random like “Tell me your name” and they will stop because my frame is strong enough that they will do it reflexively and they’ll
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49 do it because I fucking said so. Because of my field experience, I communicated it so congruently that their thought process immediately switched to “How do I do what he said right now”, instead of what it would switch to for most guys which would be “Who the fuck is this telling me what to do? Do I even want to listen? I have to go.” That said, I also know that high octane material is extremely useful in many areas. I know that an opinion opener is an easier way to open than walking up and saying ‘hi’, because I know that it will engage everyone and provide a tested topic of conversation that the girls will have something to say about. I know that a tight story will blow open the group because its very engaging, and it will make me seem very clever and sharp witted. I know that a good extraction routine is useful because it will allow a girl who is already attracted to excuse her actions and go with me, so that she doesn’t have to feel badly in front of her friends. I know that while not totally necessary or anything like that, that these are the paths of least resistance. These vehicles make my life easier, and keep my results very consistent. I also know that I can intricately lace personality conveying content into my material, which on many logical levels will convince the girl to see me again once I have left and her state has died down (hence I don’t get much phone flaking, while less competent guys will claim “Phone #s are bullshit”, which always makes me laugh and scratch my head as I think back to all the great things that have happened to me in the past year as a result of the phone - if you catch my drift). So that said, if I could go back in time a year and give myself advice on where to improve to get where I am now, here are a few things I’d say. Focus on learning to hold sets without a high energy level. Smoothen out the delivery, and tonality. Learn to subcommunicate higher value with the most precise, fucking smooth delivery possible. It’s good to be more INTERESTING than entertaining. Learn to be flirty and sexual, and then to pull back and get them qualifying themselves to you. Learn to be both congruently indifferent, and yet be able to shift to being forward at the same time. Learn to master vocal projection and how it corresponds to social status. Learn to talk in a way that commands attention instantly. Always be able to convey higher social status by strength of frame. When you talk, know that everyone will stop to listen to you. Smoothen out the bodylanguage and ease in and out of sets smoothly. Test running with pure AFC talk, to test to see if your bodylanguage and tonality has reached a point where it can hold a set without any high octane material. Learn to be as alpha and commanding in set as possible. There is NO WAY a set cannot open. All sets will open, and almost all sets will venue change with you. They have no choice, because your frame is just stronger. Tolerate no bullshit in set, tell them exactly what to do. Get girls qualifying themselves to you. Learn - and this is so fucking important - to get girls to the point where THEY are the ones struggling and thinking frantically about how to keep you engaged and keep you there. Learn to cross that social hook point, and learn when to shut up. Learn to phase shift at the snap of a finger. Learn a phase shift so strong that girls will be sucked into it, because your frame is stronger and if you slow down and smoothen out, they will have to also because that’s just the way it is. Learn to excute it at the right time and when its most effective. **And in terms of social intelligence, learn to recognize who is controlling the frame of the conversation, and to be the one controlling it at all times. I will post more on this. It is a very important topic and needs more attention. That is one of the main keys to why an average looking guy gets laid by hotties. It is so fucking subtle, but it is so important. Controlling the frame. Always preventing it from being taken from you. It’s so easy, yet so subtle that very very few guys I know understand it properly. Much of this stuff is what avoids phone flaking. It’s strength of frame. Pure social control and power. It’s very late at night right now, as Mystery has had a bunch of girls running around the house all night keeping me awake. I want to write more on this, but will post this as is for now and update more in the future. I want to leave one last thought: For guys learning this game, stop and think more about how you’re coming across. Ask yourself, “Although what I’m doing may be helping to hold the attention of the set, is it blowing me out by conveying a lower social value because I’m too high energy and not smooth and chilled back enough? Are these people a little uncomfortable and insecure and qualifying themselves around me, or are they just along for the ride that I’m giving them with my material”.
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ORIENTING YOUR GAME TO YOUR DESIRED RESULTS yeah this is always a concern of being too entertaining.. it will get you party chicks, but it is not solid game. My day game is based strongly around gunwitch method and rapport tactics, with maybe a few C&F lines sprinkled in.. nightgame is different because I have not mastered it yet (although I’ve pulled more than most, I still have alot of work to do on it).. generally, when PU’ing younger girls (19-23), you can’t run GWM or rapport tactics right out of the gate, because you’ll be quickly CB’ed and generally not get the attention of the party-chicks short attention span. you may notice that I usually type up some kind of C&F sequence that I did, line-by-line, the dialogue and everything, followed by “then I did around 45 minutes of rapport”.. The fourty five minute of rapport is what gets you the chick.. the C&F is what gets you the interest.. I just don’t have the patience to type up massively lengthy dialoge onto the FR.. but I don’t mind typing up the first few minutes of the sarge, where the chick tests me to see if I’m worthy or not. you do have a point though, and most of my day-game is based on what you describe.. I generally don’t like posting about stuff that I’ve got down pat, because its uninteresting to me, so I post about what NEW stuff I’m up to lately.. for me, going up to lone chicks, going sexual, and having instant date is so over-done, that I’m not really interested in posting about it anymore.. but YES, it is my bread and butter of PU. I also have stuff written on rapport tactics, which I’ll post later when I have time. oh yeah, another thing with this is that its good to tayler your style after guys who have similar backgrounds.. I’m a college-frat-guy, so I get away with ANYTHING.. the mosre obnoxious and over the top I am, the better the results that I get.. I have PU’ed older chicks, and for me, I sometimes wonder why guys trying to PU older chicks (early/mid thirties) even read this site.. I’ve just walked up to older chicks, gone sexual, and suggested isolation back to their houses.. I’ve done this maybe 5 times, and I’ve never had it go bad.. (I still won’t fuck them though).. Very little game is necessary, because they’ve had enough bullshit in their lives, and they just want a guy who doesn’t fuck around and conveys sexuality and confidence. so alot of the shit that I post is geared towards girls who are: • • • • • •
19 to 23 HB8.5+ bitchy and obnoxious test guys constantly dressed up (peacocked) to appear “unapproachable” drama queens
When confronted with a larger-than-life type of guy who doesn’t play into their frame, they crumble very fast... basically, they test and test and test, and then just crack.. boom, they’re yours (if all goes as planned, which it doesn’t always)
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THE PROCESS – NO ONE IS ABOVE IT I just finished reading an archive of Style’s old posts, which I downloaded before he removed it (please do not email me asking for it) Looking at this guys’ process, and that of David D’s and many other guys, I am reminded that most guys on this chatboard DO believe that they are ABOVE the PUA transition process. That’s just my impression, which I can’t know having not met everyone. The reason I get that impression, which may be totally wrong, is that I don’t see guys posting their sticking points or even posting things that indicate what SPECIFIC things they’re working on IMPLEMENTING into their game. IMO, a good PUA has the “that goes in” type mentality. Like they can read something, and immediately figure where it could possibly fit into their game. Their game is like a D&D character, or a racecar in Grand Turismo. It has all these elements you’ve added, and you can modify it and restructure it and rebuild it. Picking up and having sex with RANDOM girls from COLD APPROACHES is a fucking HARD skillset to learn. There’s so much to it. Learning it is like playing a videogame without a “save” feature. I remember playing Aliens vs Predator, and it had no “save” feature. I’d get closer and closer to the end of the fifth level, but would fall short. Eventually, I learned where EVERY possible alien could jump out, and even how to beat the predators at the end of the level. Once I did it once though, I could do it over and over, because I was familiar with everything that could come up in the level. Most guys on ASF don’t realize how HARD it is to lay high calibre girls from a cold approachs on a consistent basis. There’s so much to deal with -> cockblocks, time constraints, boyfriends, working in and attracting but SOMEHOW still not setting off her anti-slut defense, dealing with flaking, dealing with her coming out of state, dealing with getting her home. Guys will post “sex is natural, there’s 7 billion people on this earth”... BZZZZZZT!! FALLACY! How many of those lays come from cold approaches? Most come from social circle. Give me ANY, and I mean ANY chick in a social circle, and I’ll run an extremely high chance of sleeping with her within 3 meets, and probably the FIRST. Especially if I had an accomplishment intro from the group. Like if I failed it would actually be a surprise to me (and it has been when I have failed, of course). So that stuff is easy. Big deal. Doing it from cold approach is totally different. Anyway, that’s just my opinion. And off the top of my head, here are a few elements that guys could work on to develop a game where they can just see a random girl, and be so outstanding that it still goes. Like not just a good enjoyable set, but something that LEADS somewhere. PROCESS: Going out 4 days a week, minimum, for at least 2 hours a night, preferably 3 or 4. You are more comfortable in a club talking to strangers, than you are in everyday life. • Internalizing a new peice of material every night, and “ranging” it (figuring out at what buying temperature it is most effective, and figuring out the sequencing) • Learning a tight REPEATABLE 20 minute sequence that can work EVERY TIME, from opener to #close • Doing vocal change work, to learn to project your voice properly and to weild a range in tonality that makes everything sound $ $$ (this is an INSTANTLY attractive quality to girls, both with fluctuation, resonation in the frontage areas and in the chest depending on whether you’re running a set or phase shifting) • Learning to #close and practising phone game every day -> calling at least one chick a day, even a flake, and running a good half hour of phone game on her • Learning to venue change every girl that you approach, until you can convince 90%+ of girls to at least lock arms with you french promenade style, and move somewhere else in the club with you, or go to another store in the mall, etc.. Basically practising venue changing every girl you game, until you know the •
buying signs that she’ll agree to it • •
Learning to phase shift, by attempting to tongue down every single girl that you approach, until you have all of the slow down sexual projection stuff down tight, and possibly a routine such as the Evolution Phase shift or “I’m trying so hard not to kiss you right now” or “Would you like to kiss me” or something like that Learning to get permission to isolate your desired girl from their friends, until you can consistently isolate
-***Writing down EVERY single funny thing that you ever said in a pickup, so that you can attempt to re-use it later, until you have a wealth of humour that goes so deep that you can keep a girl laughing for a good 10 hours if necessary, and having enough stories about your life that WORK (ie: ALL the sequencing is worked out), and games and routines, to last 10 hours • Testing every conversational split, until you find one that works for you. Does it work best at 80% you talking and 20% her, or 50/50, or what? Determining what types of girls will be more receptive to which type. • • • •
“Ranging” all kino tricks, until you learn to run kino like a pro. Having a game plan for every self esteem level of girl, and personality profile, so that you can calibrate instantly Reading Art of Seduction by Robert Greene, and identifying what seducer persona you could best adopt, and calibrating your material to be congruent with that image. Working out things that you’ll say and do that make you STAND OUT. Alternating BETWEEN pickup styles. Like after developing a perfect 20 minute set, THROW IT OUT and go totally IMPROV. Then once you’re as good as you can get with that, go back to your perfect 20 minute set, and watch how much tighter its evolved. Then drop it a few months later. And then go back again a few months later.
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Creating an IMAGE. Are you an insurance salesman? FUCK NO. What bullshit image will you create? LIE. Ignore the guys who say not to, all the best PUAs are doing it -> peer pressure, peer pressure.... don’t you want to be a cool PUA??? Have all the logistics worked out, and a GOOD story. Be something EXCITING. If you don’t want to lie, come up with some lesser aspect of your life to focus on, that’s EXCITING. I remember being in NYC, and I blew off this girl I thought was a 7. Papa got her #, and website. She was a MODEL. And when I saw her website, I was like “OMG, this girl is fucking HOT, yo” Imagine a girl going home and looking at some crazy-ass website that makes you seem all status. Like she doesn’t plan to see you again, but she checks out your personal website and it has all this incredible shit on it. And she shows her friends and they talk about it, until she WORKS HERSELF into liking you. Mystery’s www.embracetheunknown.com site is like that. Part of Twentysix making his REAL life congruent with his PICKUP life, is eventually creating a website that he can show girls. Same goes for me. That’s why I named my website www.realsocialdynamics.com, and not www.layhotties.com - so that within a year I can CLEAN IT UP, and then show it to girls with a “social dynamics” spin on it. • Getting clothes that make you look like you’re a “Secret Society Member”. Even if not peacocking, something that makes you look CONFIDENT and fucking COOL. • Going to the gym, getting tanned if you need it, getting the best haircut. Why? To DE-ANCHOUR all of your AFC self-images. The new look changes your perspective, and fucks with all the people who treat you AFC. The black dress shoes with jeans or slacks and button shirt or polo shirt suck shit. MAKE YOUR PICKUP LIFE CONGRUENT WITH YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE. Don’t even leave the house without looking $$$, UNLESS you have no problem doing approaches like that, because you want to INTERNALIZE that you’re a 10. You want your thought process “go go go”, not “umm, how’s my breath.. how’s my clothes.. how’s my hair?? ok let’s go” You want it on AUTO PILOT. -***Looking at ALL your tendencies that are insecure and trying to drop them (fuck, I’ve fixed 90% of mine, and STILL have this SP) •
Getting a social circle so that you can invite out your dates with friends, instead of having to do 1-on-1 dates, that younger girls won’t want to do, since most have never been on a date in their ENTIRE LIFE. They want to just go out and get drunk and fuck guys in their social circle. BE their social circle, by merging yours with theirs. • Testing high energy vs low energy pickup styles. Learning HOW low you can go. Learning HOW high you can go, without blowing yourself out. •
Having a solution for EVERY contingency. If a chick said something and you fucked up, you go onto the chatboard and post about it, or call your friends, or think of something, and make a mental note to try it next time. There should be NO contingency that you aren’t prepared for. NO shot that she takes at you that you can’t dodge. • Sitting at home writing new material to field test. Thinking about your life, and thinking of how to spin it into a routine that’ easy to remember. • Writing down QUALITIES that you want to convey, and then thinking of WAYS to convey them. You want to convey that you’re ambitious? How will you do that? You want to convey that the party is with YOU? How will you do that? • For loner guys, getting FEMALE FRIENDS to HANG OUT with, so that they learn to interact with women. LIE, and say you have a girlfriend you love. For lonely guys without a single female friend, if you can’t get one I’d even try saying that you’re gay, just so they’ll hang with you (I mean if you’ve tried everything else). Do whatever it takes, because if you can’t chill with a girl then you’re in deep trouble. • Finding a SOCIAL CIRCLE. That means that if you don’t have a WIDE peer group, you could consider disqualifying yourself with groups of girls you game on, just to get into their LIVES. Like just go and get into the social groups of girls, and then that way once in a while a girl from the outer fringes of their group will go out with you, and you’ll have a CLEAR SHOT at her, with no cockblocks and even accomplishment intros. Have you guys ever noticed the DUMB LOOKS that girls from the fringes of your social circle get to meet you for the first time at a party or get together or something? It’s like they’re sizing you up to decide if they’ll fuck you, before you’ve even opened your mouth. One of my girlfriends got pissed at me while I was on workshop tour last summer, and decided to go slut-style. She slept with FOUR guys over the summer. This is a cute chick. Do you think it was RANDOMS from cold approaches? Hell no. It was guys that she met through her socially popular friend. Every time. They’d meet her at the bar, hang out, get her drunk, and bring her home and fuck her - no resistance from the friends. If you could pull off a few lays like that, your confidence will go up and you’ll get both momentum and end game experience. • Having a GOOD Day2 plan. A perfect repeatable day2. • Having a GOOD home endgame plan. Do you have homevideos you can show her? What’s your reason to bring her home? What do you have lying around to impress her? What do you have at home to entertain her if you need to stall? What alcohol or other stuff do you have at home to get her there if she needs to get fucked up in order to not feel like a slut? •
FIELD FIELD FIELD.. non-stop.
That’s all I can think of. A long list. But it isn’t MEANT to be done in a month. It’s meant to take 2 years, roughly. A REAL PUA should be worrying about this stuff non-stop. For me to maintain tight level game is like being an olympic athlete. If I let this shit slide, I’m toast. Look at Style (CPowles). In all his posts, he’s trying to work through a sticking point, every time he’s on the board. He’s looking for a solution to EVERY contingency. NOBODY is above this process. If you’re not doing this stuff, you’re TREADING WATER. Good fun to all bros! :)
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FRAME SETTING Force girls into the frame that you need her to be in, in order to sarge her. EVERYONE wants to be perceived as GENUINE. When girls put up FRONTS, call them out on their ungenuine bullshit behaviour to put them in line. Jeans store girl: PUA: “are we in talk mode, or sales mode?” HB: “well, sorta both..” PUA: (stick out tongue) “pffffffft!!” HB: no no no.. go on, go on, I’m in talk mode.. PUA: ok (spin handshake to return her into state) Shooter girl: HB: would you like a shooter? PUA: hmm... I’m not sure that we’d get along.. HB: what?? why????? PUA: We’re too similar.. HB: why??? PUA: I can’t tell you.. We haven’t known eachother for long enough.. HB: hahahhaah.. PUA: get this (routine) HB: hey cool.. so would you like something to drink? PUA: (make funny face, continue with NEXT routine, utterly IGNORING her question.. use high-5s, hugs, “I love you”, or anything OTHER than the answer to her question) HB: hahaha, ok SERIOUSLY do you want a shooter.. PUA: are you in shooter girl mode or in genuine mode? HB: well I’m working.. PUA: pfffft! (backturn) HB: no no no.. I’m listening, keep going.. PUA: (run sarge as usual) Waitress: PUA: talking talking... run A-crowd routine, validate her as part of your a-crowd.. HB: cool.. so what do you want tonight sir? PUA: hold up.. are we still chatting or are you in waitress mode? HB: well I am waitressing.. PUA: uh oh.. I’m not sure if you’re still A-crowd with us anymore.. HB: no no no, I’m just talking.. keep going.. PUA: high-5.. Ok, get this........ Girl with bitchshield at a night venue (club/bar/etc) HB: x-ignorant comment PUA: “are you in bar mode or daytime mode?” HB: what??? PUA: I think that you treat people differently at the bar than during the daytime.. I’m just trying to talk to you, and I don’t think that you’re like this (hand gesture to motion to your conversation) during the day.. This isn’t genuine.. I don’t think its you.. (for serious bitch shields you can add: “this is second class behaviour”) HB: yeah but all these lame desperate guys try to hit on me in lame ways.. PUA: my intuition about you is that you respect yourself enough to come only to a place where the people are worth talking to.. just chill.. be genuine.. I can totally see that you have x-quality going for you.. I think that you’re probably x-compliment.. (spinhandshake to re-initiate her state, so it doesn’t go too downhill state-wise). Stripper (Mystery always does this shit): HB: where are you from? PUA: (NOT answering her question) these are ‘mark’ questions, for customers.. this isn’t you.. HB: what? PUA: actually you’d better run along and make some money or your boss might get mad.. HB: I have no boss.. I work when I want.. PUA: oh, so you’re saying that you have the freewill to exert your own power of choice and talk to who you want.. I like that, that’s powerful.. (then IGNORE all ‘mark’ questions NO MATTER WHAT, and pump her with routines.. NOTHING situational whatsoever, because as a stripper she has heard it ALL NIGHT.. just intrigue her and neg neg neg) Point here is, hot girls will use whatever situation that they’re in, in order to put up shields. Call them up on their bullshit behaviour to convey to them its ungenuine, and that you only talk to genuine people. Then proceed to sarge as usual, once her situational shield is broken down.
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AVOIDING FRAMES **BE AWARE OF OTHER PEOPLE’S FRAMES, AND CONVEY VALUE BY AVOIDING THEM**
What you did here was the same thing as telling a beautiful woman “You’re beautiful”, asking a stripper “do your parents know you do this?”, asking a celeb “is it hard to give autographs all the time?”, asking a girl with an amazing purse “where did you get that?”, saying to a stripper “should I be the one to lapdance you” (right frame, but WAY too common), saying to a jeans stores girl “hey, aren’t you supposed to give me service?”... ALL THESE LINES THAT WE THINK ARE CATCHY, BUT THAT THEY’RE HEARD A BILLION ZILLION TIMES! :) These people hear these lines ALL DAY. They’re SICK of hearing them. When you make yourself the NEXT MAN of the day to say these things, you categorize yourself into the mass of people who bore them with the same shit over and over. You’re no longer even a person, but an OBJECT. When a shooter-girl in a club comes and asks you if you want a drink, and you say “yes” and then proceed to game her, it WILL NOT WORK. You have to not even ANSWER. CUT HER OFF, and stick on YOUR material. Otherwise you’re mentally compartmentalized as an OBJECT before you’ve even started gaming. I wear MachinaII peacocky boots. Guess how many times a day I hear “nice boots”. Probably 20-30 times everyday. Do I remember these people? NOPE. What if they came up to me and talked about something NEW and OUTSIDE MY REALITY. Would I remember them THEN? For guys on this board for a year, what do they think when you come on and say “I’m new, help me”. What value do you convey? Will you be welcomed and replied to, or will you be now categorized as the next loser to ask the same shit, and replied to as an object who will be forgotten?
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PROXIMITY IOI’S I swear I see this again and again.. Chicks are so mad-AFC that the ONLY thing most of them can do is just hover around you, hoping that you talk to them.. A few minutes ago at the mall, I walk past this store where I teased the shit out of these two HB store attendants for like half an hour (a long time ago).. I walk into the CD store next door, and when I come out, I see the chick who is supposed to be working at the neighbouring store sitting in the hall right where I’ll be walking by, checking out some exhibit or some shit like that.. I know she knows me, but doesn’t look at me at all, and is strangely looking at the ground like she’s guilty.. Anyway, I reset my sleeping pattern last night (I’m on 3 hours sleep) in preparation for next semester, and I’m honestly too tired to be sarging (read: doing) chicks right now.. And since I don’t like #closing perfectly instant-datable chicks, I figured that I’d go investigate it at some later point in time since I know where she works, and I’m in the mood to go to the pet store.. (bear in mind that I’m also just coming BACK from another instant-date with a chick that I PU’ed in the library, so I’m spent) So I’m upstairs, and her friend pops out of nowhere, and walks up to me saying “why don’t you go downstairs and visit HB9??” I’m like “sure.. and I’ll tell her that you sent me, and that you told me that she’s madly in love with me..” She smiles, nods, and suggests again that I go do it.. Well I’m too tired for this shit right now, and I’m about to go to bed.. But the point is that she’s an easy close for tommorow or later on, and this is just SO TYPICAL.. Watch for chicks strangely hovering around you, looking all guilty and shit.. Ask yourself, “don’t MOST chicks look at me and give me flirtateous EC?? Why is this chick not doing that??” Since most chicks aren’t overly confident (where I’m from anyway), you can pretty much guarantee that its a PROXIMITY IOI. My friend Julianne, when she had this insane obsession over this guy in the library, used to go sit in the same area as him all the time.. “well I don’t look at him TD!! Then he’d totally know that I like him!!! If he looks at me, I just stare into my books so he won’t know!! Oh my God!! He must think I’m such a loser!!” WTF??? Typical chick-shit.. Be on the lookout for this shit.. I remember this chick I’d eyeballed in a cafeteria lineup. I went over to the vending machine, and she comes over. I say “what are you looking for??” and she DARTS. I’m thinking “WTF is this shit???”, but on my ride home I realized that some chicks get scared when you call them on their proximity, because they’re scared that GOD FORBID you’ll realize that they’re interested in you. I can remember my highschool GF (HB9) doing this also.. She made friends with my sister, and would come over to my house and look all shy.. Never look at me whatsoever. Just hang around wherever I was. So I’m thikning that you have to handle this sort of thing delicately (to be honest, I’m pretty shitty at WARM approaches, and better when the chicks haven’t noticed me yet..) You can pretty much guarantee that if a chick is doing the nervous-proximity-IOI routine, that when you approach, she’ll be shitting her pants.. So just assume that if you sense proximity IOIs, and you approach - she’ll likely appear very uncomfortable. Glance in the pupils, look at the way that her BODY is facing, NOT the direction of her face.. Cause her face may possibly be facing the floor out of nervous-submission. Anyway, I’ll drop by this chicks’ work tommorow right around closing time (or tonight if I can’t sleep), and deal with her then.
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COMMENTS ON AI I’ve been keeping my eyes peeled for AI’s (the stuff discussed by Formhandle, and also briefly touched on myself in a later post of mine, prior to a friend pointing me to Form’s excellent post after reading it) lately.. It has been working extremely well for me. On York Campus (where Twentysix and I were sarging and we had a blast), I spotted an AI from a HB9 (smoking hot euro-chick) sitting on a bench.. I sat down, and said ‘hi’.. She is SO happy about this.. She’s like “hahah.. umm... HI!! :)”.. I say “what’s up?”.. She says “WHAT’S UP WITH YOU???” (soooo happy I approached, almost giddy).. I reply (credit TokyoPUA) “i dunno.. you looked fun.. I thought you’d be someone I’d like to meet...” And from there it is ON.. We’re in deep rapport and kino, when after 10 minutes her BOREFRIEND comes back to the bench, looking RIGHT PISSED OFF. She looked mad-guilty, and I tried to win over the BF, which I sorta did, but she took off. Point is though, that it was 100% DEFINETELY ON had the BF not been in the picture.. A very hot girl, and a NO GAME pickup, just because I spotted the AI. Then, last night, I was winging with Twentysix and No9, and spotted (IMO) the hottest chick in the club giving me an AI (this is the result of my extreme peacocking, which the hottest chicks gravitate towards.. this happens daily now, and most people not willing to field test peacocking will get their asses wupped by me in the club now, because peacocking is the best shit for clubs ever, IMO absolutely ridiculously UNSTOPPABLE).. I notice that she kind of freezes and is aware of my presence whenever I’m in that room of the club.. She keeps kind of backing away from her dancing circle whenever I roll by but still not really looking at me. So Twentysix and I just sit there by the bar, while I sit there staring at her dancing. She backs away from the circle, and I go in NEUTRAL GUNWITCH STYLE, since I ALREADY HAVE HER IN A SEXUAL STATE AND DO NOT NEED ANY GAME. So I ask her where the best clubs are (she rubbing her cheek on my face kind of to listen, and looks ECSTATIC CLOUD NINE STYLE that I approached).. Her friend comes into cock block: CB: hey.. ME: is it OK if I’m getting to know your friend? CB: well you have to get by me first.. ME: oh yeah? you’re definetely a classy chaperone.. I think I like you. CB: haha.. where do you work? ME: I’m the president of Microsoft.. CB: mmmmm.. sounds good. NOW: this AFC comes in and asks my HB9 target to dance.. She is confused and is about to go with him cause she’s kind of submissive like that. The CB likes me, and sees me losing the girl to a guy who didn’t make her not feel jealous, although she’s also upping kino on me thinking that SHE can get with me maybe (she’s like an 8 or something, but late twenties which is a little old for me).. ME: LET’S GO DANCE NOW. (I don’t dance, but its a slow song and I NEED to get her away from this new guy) HB: ummmm..... (looking frantically at both guys) ME: (looking the AFC guy right in the eyes) LET’S GO DANCE. AFC: (comes over talks into my ear) I’m soooo sorry.. I thought nothing was going on here.. I’ll leave. ME: cool.. no worries. (I drag off HB to dance floor) HB: OK.. We dance, I chat her up Gunwitch style while I try not to trip all over myself. (bear in mind that the following is because I am not into ONS from CLUBS, particularly when I’m visiting other cities.. personal preference and I’m not arguing about it even if it violates ASF sanctity or something.. during a day-time pickup or meet, I can decide of she’s worthy or not, but I don’t do ONS at nightclubs where things are too frantic for me to screen her for inner worth since I value myself enough to avoid getting mixed up with retarded-dramaqueens even if only briefly) HB: I’m sooooo drunk right now.. I can’t control myself.. My friends are leaving soon, and I’ll be all alone.. I’ll have nothing to do. ME: ooooh.. too bad, I don’t hang with drunk chicks at clubs.. I guess I can’t ask you for your phone#. HB: ME: HB: ME: HB: ME:
no no no no no.. I’m not drunk.. I just mean I was going to get drunk.. I’m not drunk I only had one beer. OK, I can get your # then.. let’s go. OK do you have a cell phone? nope.. let’s go to the bar and get a pen.. well I can take your number.. hahaheheh.. nope. let’s go to the bar (grab her take her there)
I take her # and plan a meet so I dont’ have to phone her if I don’t want to. This morning, I call her anyway cause I have other stuff I can do so if she flakes in some ways would prefer if she does (so NORMALLY, I just meet close, bring a book, and if she flakes I sarge other chicks at the venue.. but this time I preferred to know if she’d flake so I can get some tasks off my plate).. So I call just to confirm. I call her, and her phone kicks out. She calls me back off her caller_ID LIGHTENING SPEED (I was waiting as a test, not on purpose but thought I’d wait to see if she’d call back the # I was at since most cell phones have callerID)... We make a plan for 3:30 this afternoon, which I’m about to get ready for right now. Anyway, the AIs are GREAT for approaches. DO NOT USE THEM AS CRUTCHES FOR COLD APPROACHING, but they are nice, if you can spot them. I’ve used them several times this week, but those were the two hottest girls, and IMO most interesting PUs. IME so far, the key to approaching when there’s been AI, is to go in NEUTRAL. Not too much routines/humour/patterns, unless its light and flirty, but RETAINS her sexual state. REMEMBER:
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TONALITY Any guy who thinks he’s going to pickup a girl in a high-stimulus venue like a club with frollicking hotties everywhere, using slow deep seductive tonality is out to lunch. Not going to happen. Deep tonality doesn’t cut over the noise. Focus on projecting. SEDUCE IN THE RIGHT VENUE!! :) Get them horny in a place where you can actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Do NOT rely on them being horny in order to isolate. THE EFFECTIVE PICKUP ARTIST DOES THE LEAST AMOUNT NECESSARY TO GET TO THE NEXT STAGE. Just get them into you enough to get them alone. That doesn’t mean to squeaky voiced dancing monkey. Convey that you are still the shit. But don’t RELY on them being ready to fuck you as a tactic to isolate. Just show them that YOU are where the party is at, and then go Gunwitch-style (phase shifting) on them when you have them alone (either in isolation rapport building, or in full extraction..)
EG1) PUA: Let’s go over here HB: OMG, I’m so wet and horny, I can’t resist.. Screw my friends who can tell all of this because of my girl eye codes.. I’m going anyway!! Forget my reputation!! I don’t care anymore, this guy just has me so wet, he’s so sexy!! Who cares if I’m branded a slut for life!! = WRONG EG2) PUA: Let’s go over here HB: OMG, I’m having so much fun, let’s go.. Then, once alone: HB: Oh wait, all of a sudden I just realized I want this guy because I’m an emotionally driven creature, and my emotions change so much because I’m a chick that what I thought previously is irrelevant, especially since I thought nothing negative and the guy is clearly socially proofed and has alot going for him.. well I’m alone with him now, so I can go for it becaues there’s no consequences.. (this is caused by PHASE SHIFTING, since as Gunwitch writes, once you project it she will RECIPROCATE IT.. so do it in the RIGHT PLACE) = RIGHT
When entering set, you have to have either EQUAL or SLIGHTLY HIGHER energy level, or you are a BUZZ KILL. Girls in clubs don’t give a fuck if you’re slow and sexy. Yeah yeah, girls love sex blah blah.. In the real world, if you go in all James Bond in a venue like that you’re blown out. How do I know? I’ve field tested it a zillion times. Christ, girls are ALREADY made horny FOR YOU once they’re in the club anyway, just from the alcohol and grinding. So your focus should definetely not be that sort of thing. In clubs or nighttime venues, just focus on having fun and conveying a shitload of amazing/attraction qualities about yourself. Then the girls will realize that they want you on their own accord. Go slow and deep when you’re ready to phase shift. That makes it just that much powerful and make a bigger impact. When I’m on the phone, I fractionate between fun C&F shit higher energy stuff, and HARDCORE slow deep pimp bedroom talk. In the past month I’ve gotten it so down that I secretly 3way call girls that I’m seeing whenever an ASFer calls me, just to show it off. Maybe I’ll post some recordings, because one of my girlfriends knows about this, and she probably wouldn’t mind if I told her after and asked permission. I’ll see on that, but please nobody email me. In fact, in the past 3 months my tonality has become something I’m most known for. Like I have weak points and strong points in my game, but I think that is one of my stronger points. Also my facial expressiveness. Guys will meet up with me and ask to tape me and stuff like that. Funny thing though, is that once I got to that point, that’s when my game went up bigtime. This shit is totally counter-intuitive. It’s funny, because I was always depressed when I was younger, like “fuck, I’m skinny, not the best looking.. but to make it even WORSE, my voice isn’t even deep” So once I figured out that PROJECTION is more important than DEPTH, I was really happy about that. Girls started complimenting me all the time and shit like that. Also, despite what was said in that thread about Style’s and Mystery’s voice, they both have MONEY voices for pickup. Like Style really worked at it, and I noticed it last time I met up with him. His voice was really resonant and cut through the noise at the lounge that we were in. I was really impressed actually. He just got this skill in the past few months as well (I understand he took or read a course, though I’m not sure which one). The video was from a Sony Clie, which had bad recording quality and also was prior to him taking that course. Mystery is the same - if you read testimonials you’ll see shit like
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59 “Mystery yelled something at the girl across the bar, and she ran over”. Both him and I can YELL DOWN girls from over 30 feet away, and they get stuck in it like a tracter beam an they run over and start shooting indicators of interest instantaneously. It’s one of those freaky workshop things that I’ve learned to do, just to hotdog and impressive the guys taking it (kind of like rapid fire makeouts - somewhat pointless but impressive to watch just to shatter your cognitive model of what’s possible). Anyway, Style was just being unconfident when he agreed with those criticisms. Style if you’re reading, props man your tonality was really really good last time I saw you, and much improved since the first time we met. IJJJJI man, my feeling is that you know your shit. Try it in clubs and feedback after a couple of nights out. Let me know your thoughts on it.
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PLAYING HARD TO GET PLAYING HARD TO GET - BEING A CHALLENGE - BEING THE PRIZE I talked about posting some more advanced material for guys who are interested. Here is a first helping. If you're not interested in dense material, read something else. This is one of the most important posts I've written in some time, and it will likely go misunderstood given that most guys will not have the field experience to appreciate it. It is the most important thread I've posted in six months. For guys who can gain attraction very consistently, but still have trouble getting laid: read this post until you have it down. A few things to keep in mind, I want to throw out here: -Buying Temperature Spikes -S/C Switch (Screening vs Chasing switch) -Social hook point and sexual hook point -Female psychology (autopilot responses, socially conditioned buying temperature regulation, value responses, choice making fuck rationalizations) -Bodylanguage subcommunication of hard-to-getness (the idea of not saying you're hard to get, but communicating it with your bodylanguage) ***This post is directed towards girls who you ascertain are attracted to challenging guys. Not all girls are like this, but many hot girls are. Again, many aren't. For guys use or advocate other styles which don't make use of this sort of stuff, the reason that they are getting laid is that they using other means of getting laid. There is more than one style. This post is something that is useful for guys in my context, and if you're using a totally different style than me, then this stuff may be useless to you. SOME ROUGH THOUGHTS ON FEMALE PSYCHOLOGY: Many of the hottest girls are extremely responsive to hard to get guys. Anyone in field has experienced the scenario where he plays hard to get and having the girl chase, but as soon as he shows interest he is blown out. This can happen even as late as the bedroom. Like, you'll have a girl chasing you all night, isolate you back home, but because you make the first move, she locks up and the pickup is over. There are several reasons behind this, and in any given situation the lockup may have been caused by one or all of the reasons. Firstly, you have autopilot responses. Think to the last time that you walked down the street, and a vagrant asked you for change. Perhaps you said "no", and kept walking. You don't consider it a lie. It's just an autopilot response to a social situation. Girls are the same with the LJGD ("let's just go dance") or "let's go to the bathroom", when their buying temperature goes down and their logical social conditioning kicks in and says "This guy is trying to sleep with us. He may be attractive, but who cares, I'm not meeting a guy at a club. I'm leaving this situation to go dance, because that's why I came to the club in the first place." Notice also, how in all of the times that you've told a vagrant "no" when you were asked for spare change, there were those few times when someone asked you for help, and you said "no" out of habit, when in fact as you walked off you might have thought to yourself "Shit, maybe that guys' car really did break down. He didn't look like a vagrant. I wonder if I was a dick to him?" The same goes for girls. They'll screen guys out as an auto-pilot response, and later wonder if they made a mistake (but they don't care, because another guy will come along in two seconds anyway). Attraction and how alpha or how sexual you are is not a factor here. Even very attractive guys get screened out for no logical reason. This is purely an autopilot response that you have to recognize and dodge. That is why we use opening tactics - they open consistently. Likewise, girls will leave a set as their buying temperature increases too fast, as an autopilot response. They think "I don't know this guy. This guy knows what he's doing, and probably does it to all the girls. I'm getting out of here." This is why we use fractionation tactics, so as to avoid her disengaging you. Note also, that typical C&F push/pull is NOT a fractionation tactic. C&F and the like is not indirect, even if you are flirting around that you are hard to get. Girls know that if you're taking the time to engage them, even in a C&F hard to get flirtish type way, that it is not the case that you are *legitimately* hard to get. This is in the same way that when a girl comes up to me and says that my shirt is stupid - I know that she wants me. There is no difference. C&F is simply a *competent* way of flirting, that says a million and one great things about you. It's still (arguably, depending on semantics) a direct approach in some ways. It's just a direct approach that girls like, because it still shows that you are willing to walk away - you're interested, but you can take it or leave it. So that said, you can see how "You're my new girlfriend.. No wait, you don't have x whatever? We're broken up." is not a fractionation technique. It's highly competent flirting, but its not *actually* conveying that you don't want her in a way where she really believes it. **If I had to pinpoint one reason why guys who come to this stuff have trouble getting results, its what is outlined in this post. Girls are used to sex going down in a certain way. Walking up to girls and overtly trying to pick them up goes against what they're used to. It's a violation of social norms. Girls will tolerate it as cute, and they'll be interested to see what you'll do. But they'll rarely sleep with you (unless they are at a certain point in their lives where they are open to the idea, which I'll post about below in terms of "fuck rationalizations" - and this does happen often, which accounts for alot of the success that we see with other styles of approaches). Guys go in trying to convince the girl, when they should be BAITING the girl into convincing THEM. As a result, most of the bold moves that guys who come to the scene attempt, wind up not yielding any results. So back on female psychology then, why do girls like *actual* hard to get guys? Girls naturally enjoy having their buying temperature pumped up high. So if they can get those emotions out of an interaction, without worrying that the guy will exploit her suggestable state and have sex with her, then she can just get all emotionally aroused
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61 around him, and enjoy it. Of course what happens from there is that she backwards rationalizes it, and then convinces herself that she legitimately wants the guy. From there, she decides that she's going to get the guy, and starts chasing him in a manner as unsophisticated and blatantly obvious as how a pissed drunk AFC would chase a girl that he wants at a party. She'll kino him, giggle and scream around him, compliment him, signal her friends to help her, and try to isolate him. Notice, as this post goes on, that this last paragraph explains why just getting a girls' buying temperature up high is not good enough, and that she actually has to chase. It's because of the backwards rationalization process, and the sexual hook point that she crosses over as a result. The S/C switch (screen/chase) gets flipped. There are also issues of validation at work. Notice that if you tell a girl "I hate you", she starts touching you immediately, and begs to know why. Notice that if you engage the whole set, but actively ignore the choice girl, she'll start trying to get you to talk to her. This is all validation. It's more validating for the often insecure hot girls, to sleep with a guy who will reinforce that she is beautiful. Think about your last cute girlfriend. She was cute. She was great in bed. But sooner or later, you got used to it, and took it for granted. Your relationship started stagnating. Then you're out at a party one night, and all these guys are giving her attention. Her friends are there, and she's having a great time just doing her own thing. All of a sudden, she looks different. She seems different. You say to your friend, "You know man, I was just thinking how cool Kathy is. I really want to stick with her." Then she comes over, and sits with you. And its like "Wow, I actually have this girl with me. This is awesome". Haa - she's no different than she was an hour ago when you were sick of her. But when you can tell that someone doesn't need you, they just SEEM different. There's something about it that's hard to articulate. But what it boils down to, is that all of a sudden, this person's attention has become a source of validation for you. And as a result, they seem more attractive. (BTW: I use the paragraph before this one as a killer routine in sets, except I take out the part about stagnation and focus more on how I know that I appreciate someone and the positive sides of it). In addition to the validation issue, there are basic genetic/status explainations and accounts for why hard to get guys are appealing. Very basically, guys who are sexually pre-selected by other girls because of their genetics and/or social status will be hard to get, because they can't be bothered with chasing women. They simply walk around, and girls chase them. Chasing a girl is in some ways subcommunicating that you are not one of these guys. If you go to the high class venues in Los Angeles, the mere act of actively picking up is looked down on by the highly socially proofed guys. They'll say things like "That guy over there is trying to pull ass. Kick him out." A counter argument is that an alphamale will see a girl that he wants, and will just go up and assume the sell. This can also work, if you genuinely come across that way, and if you have the followup to back it up congruently. Generally though, this is uncommon. Natural PUAs generally just walk around, and girls give them AIs (approach invitations) or make it really easy for them by throwing themselves at them, in a way that most surrounding men just don't recognize (and women don't acknowledge, as this would be a breach of "Secret Society" to admit what's happening, and would break down their whole system of secretly being the CHOOSERS). Note, that the idea of the alphamale who does approaches in society is a SOCIAL MISCONCEPTION. This rarely happens. Generally, natural alphamales do not do cold approaches. I've travelled all over North America and Europe, and I rarely see it. I know exactly what to look for - and I *rarely* see them initiating cold approaches. It happens only in certain communities, like London and NYC. But this is very very uncommon, and even in these communities 99% of the naturals who get laid often are still not doing cold approaches. The ideas that "men take all the risks in escalation" and "men do the approaching, women do the receiving", that the academic community of psychologists and zoologists have espoused is BAD DATA. It is literally a fallacy and blemish of the academic community. It is a pathetic and glaring example of the follies of academia's white ivory tower armchair theorism, from eggheads who couldn't put any of their theory into practice if you gave them 10 years of prepare it (this is a gripe that I have as a student of political and analytic philosophy, that I see transferred over into this field as well). What these social scientists don't see (AFCs that they are), while they're watching all of the interactions that they supposedly use as empirical data in their published studies (which influence social understandings and thus social conditioning), is that while the men are the ones approaching and escalating, it is the women who are throwing themselves at these clueless men, until they do something. So in that case, the woman has virtually ALREADY DECIDED that she wants the man, and from there she just doesn't admit it (secret society breach), but rather throws herself at the guy until he escalates. She even puts up silly shit tests like (this from a double lay that SB007 and I did on a 2set that we pulled) "Just because you're renting that hotel, doesn't mean we're going up with you."... and later on in the night .... "just because we came up here, doesn't mean we're sleeping with you.." And typical AFCs, will say "Wow, we really plowed through that resistance", when in fact these girls had chosen to sleep with SB007 and I LONG before we'd taken them back to the hotel that we rented right in front of them. We were the hard to get guys, and just let them play out their dramatic act of throwing themselves at us in subtle ways, while pretending that they we didn't know what was happening. And then we allowed them to structure the extraction while making it look like it was our idea and not their fault, and then afterwards they denied responsibility for what took place, while they still email us regularly and want to meet up again. These girls would claim that we chose them, when in fact they chose us - which few people realize is the way it almost always happens. The idea that "girls choose" also stems from the male/female social dynamic in our society, and the practises and habits that spawn from it. Men are unconsciously giving sexual validation to attractive women all day long, in one way or another. It's either they're checking them out, asking them the time, trying to make small talk, or pivoting left instead of right as they walk out of a room – when it would be faster to pivot left but he can catch a glimpse of her by pivoting right. Girls are all too aware of this stuff. It's built into them. They also go to the club religiously, to relish the process of guys buying them drinks and checking them out, and then shooting them down. A quote over from literally the hottest girl on my campus two months ago after an off-night: "I'm so depressed. No guys approached me tonight. I would never get together with a guy from a club, but I can't believe that I didn't get approached." So what winds up happening, is that girls get into a pattern of not seeking out sex. They tend to go in cycles, where rather than chasing sex, they simply decide to give it up at arbitrary times. "This is the day that I will give it up." So for example, a typical girl will have a "revenge" fuck, a "just broke up with my boyfriend rebound" fuck, a "I haven't gotten laid in exactly 6 months" fuck, a "I'm on vacation and there are no social consequences and I just want to have fun" fuck, a "I need to revalidate myself being
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62 snubbed to prove I'm beautiful" fuck, a "romantic tryst adventure" fuck, a "jump on the sword so my friend can have her guy" fuck, a "I haven't gone home with a guy before, and all my friends have and I want to try it" fuck, etc etc etc. Then of course there is the "I've been dating this guy 3 months, and he provides well and its time to give it up now" fuck, which is the one that we typically aren't concerned about on this chat forum. The girl has had sex available to her continually, but she can't "give it up" at every opportunity that comes around, because she'd wind up sleeping with 15,000 different men by the time she was finished. So instead, she comes up with rationalizations of when and where to give it up. Thus, it is the case that girls are in the habit of making the choice. The second that they see that the guy is trying to make the choice for them, the sequence is broken, and their auto-pilot response kicks in and they automatically go back to screening him (even if they like him), just as they had on every other day prior to this one. (Don't make the mistake of thinking that you still don't have to do the work in making up BS excuses so that it isn't the girls' fault, once the ball is rolling. That is a different story. It still has to be "not hard fault". What's being discussed here is a separate issue from that). This is the fallacy that guys make when approaching. They think that they can choose the girl, because they've pumped her buying temperature and she's been receptive to it. In practice though, if the S/C Switch doesn't flip, she'll still just sit back and enjoy the emotions, without having to give up anything in return. That's when you get situations where the girl will hang with you alll night, but won't give up her #, or she'll give it but she'll flake, or she'll give insurmountable LMR even if you extract. That's because the right SEQUENCE hasn't been initiated, to make her "Today is the day" switch flip (where she'll pick from one of the many fuck-rationalizations, in the heat of the moment). And that sequence is "Guy is attractive. I can't take it anymore, so today is the day. I choose guy. I throw myself at him in oblique ways that he can't directly prove is me actually doing it. He eventually notices my actions and picks me up. I do nothing to help it move along, but if he makes everything happen and alleviates me of responsibility then it happens. He takes the credit for picking me up." The sequence is NOT "Guy walks up and tries to attract me. I decide that I'm attracted. I let him fuck me." For that reason, the guy may have switched every attraction switch in the book in terms of buying temperature, but unless she is the one making the choice, the S/C switch will not be flipped. She is attracted, but her thought process is STILL occupied with trying to find every reason possible not to let anything happen. She must switch from the typical mode of perpetual screening, to chasing. Her THOUGHT PROCESS must be switched. She must believe that you are a guy who is a source of attraction (ie: buying temperature escalation), but that you are not intentionally doing it to her. This is the same reason that if you tell a girl that you study 'pickup', she will be offended. You are breaking the sequence that is protected via the Secret Society, so to speak. You are messing up their ability to make a "good" choice. From there, she has switched into chase mode. She is no longer dwelling whatsoever on why she shouldn't do anything (as she would be perpetually, if she thought that you were trying to lay her). Now, she's focused only on how to make it happen with you. Her thought process has changed. The S/C Switch has been flipped. She's focused solely on making it happen (except that she's not admitting to herself that she's trying to "get laid" - nope - she's just trying to continue the interaction back to somewhere that it could happen, despite that she deep down knows that she IS trying to get laid, but won't actively admit it to herself). So that said, how do you trip that switch early on? Let's look at some straight tactics. ***** FLIPPING THE S/C SWITCH, VIA TIMED FRACTIONATION ON BUYING TEMPERATURE SPIKES: What is a buying temperature spike? You've all seen it. It's when you do or say something to give the girl a quick shot of emotions. Like a C&F remark where she goes "Oh!" and swats you. Or you tell her that you know something that she wants to know bad, and she goes "OMG OMG OMG, tell me tell me tell me!" Or when you run a really tight story that has her dying laughing or excited or intrigued. Or if you do a DHV, like the coin snatch trick or Mystery's 3 and 7 routine, and she freaks out. Or a great joke. Or even just coming in strong with good bodylanguage and tonality, and sucking up the attention of everyone in the set, and her buying temperature shoots up (you see this when you go in with an opener, and the girls just jump to talk to you or answer your question). Whatever. You see it on their face, and you see it in the way that they turn their bodylanguage towards you, and when they kino you. Her buying temperature has shot up. Usually, it hits in abrupt bursts. Little spikes on the graph. You know you can't *maintain* this level indefinetely, but you can hit that level in bursts. These buying temperature spikes are the right time to start doing subtle takeaways. That is, not the kind of takeaway where you walk off into another set. Rather, you just break eyecontact with her, and face away a bit. You *exactly* what the girls do to you, when you're gaming them in a club, and they get distracted because a peice of your material is not strong enough. You turn to your friends or the bar or the dancefloor, and you make it look like you're about to leave. *But*, girls are very much accostomed to getting what they want. So unlike most guys who will give up, their instant reaction is to go "HEY HEY HEY, keep talking.. What were you saying??? What???" That is your first step in getting the girls chasing. You have conveyed that you might walk away at any point, and all of the aforementioned issues are now dealt with. You are an attractive guy, and you have very clearly (in such a subtle way) demonstrated that you are not trying to get her. IOW, the natural process of her becoming attracted to you and choosing you has begun. This kind of timing takes time and practice to cultivate. It can also be learned right off the opener. Here are some examples:
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63 OPENER CLASS: "BAIT OPENERS" - SPIKE BUYING TEMPERATURE, AND TAKEAWAY TO BAIT HER TO OPEN YOU 1- "I'm shy": My friend Shannon walks up to a set. I walk up to her and she introduces me. I say "Hey, I'm shy" with a super cocky look on my face, and turn to Shannon and say "Let's go outside". Here I looked like a cocky cool and fun guy, who they were about to get a little bit of buying temperature entertainment from - gratuitous entertainment for their night. But I *spotted* that look on their face, so I automatically took it away. *But*, I left a hook that they could grab on to. I said "Hey, I'm shy", and then turned to Shannon as if I were about to leave. In fact, I wasn't, but knew that they'd force me to stay. From there, they scream "Why are you shy?! Why are you shy?! Don't go.. Why are you shy?!", and I roll back in and game them. You can also use "I hate you", "I hate you guys", or "I hate girls". These work amazingly well as followups, and work well when you're merging into a set with your wing. Again, the girls say "Why?? Whyyyy?!??" 2- Eyecodes and bluffing that you're entering the set, and flashing peacocky zipper: I walk by some guys who are gaming a set poorly. I walk right up to the set, and do "let's go" girl eye code to the girls (I roll my eyes, like "These guys are tools"). I also make little eye movements down to where their hands are too eagerly touching the girls, and make eye movements at the beers that they bought for them, and smirk right after I see them. The girls know what's up - they can tell that I know the deal of how women are. I walk right up like I'm about to out-alpha the guys, but then shake my head a bit like "This is too lame for me to even bother with", and then back away while still maintaining eye contact with the girls. Here I am using my PRESENCE as something that will give them a quick buying temperature level spike, and then I am withdrawing. I then proceed to tug on the zipper of my very peacocky zipper covered (BAIT) vest, and look from her eyes down to my vest. I have provided the bait. The girls immediately go "Hey! That vest is awesome! Let me see! Let me see!", and blow off the guys and jump over to me. 3- Take over set with C&F comment and AMOG blaster: I look over from my barstool, and plow in with booming tonality some C&F comments, and proceed to shoot a quick out-alpha routine on the AMOG. For anyone who read my FR last week, it was a coment about a girl saying that everyone thought she had fake breasts. I yelled over "That's great - they'll give you boyancy if we're ever lost at sea. You'll be the only one to survice". Both girls look at me, and are intrigued. Then the AMOG says "Hey, this is my girlfriend", and I reply with "Haa, cool.. You guys look so similar, I thought that you guys were brother and sister. If you guys have kids they'll look like (I do a funny impression)." I then make a comment to the guy that he owns this end of the bar, turn my barstool around, and takeaway. Again, I have come in with COOLER presence than everyone else. I added energy to the group, which spiked up the girls' buying temperature, and then noticing that I immediately took it away. The girls immediately re-openme. 4- Opinion opener: This is something that I do all the time with Sickboy007. Like all the time. This is key to our game. We roll into set talking amongst ourselves. Like we are the coolest guys in the club, and not needy at all. We're having more fun in our own conversation than we could be talking to anyone else. (Note: We usually actually ARE, so this is congruent. We talk about cool shit while we're in the field, and joke around alot. This keeps our state up, and is much better than talking game in field and getting too analytical). Despite being both guys, because we are both cool we actually provide more social proof to eachother than a female pivot would. So right off the bat, we look like best friends who could care less if they'll talk to us or not, because we are cooler and more interesting than them. We tap one of the girls, and run the first line of the opinion opener. They're thinking "Wow, those cool looking guys we saw are actually coming over to talk to us". Then they give their answer, and I we immediately turn our bodylanguage away from facing them, and into eachother. Then we assimilate their answer into our conversation, and transition into joking around about other shit that the girls DON'T GET, but it sounds interesting. So the girls see that we basically just tooled them to add to our own fun, and they can see that our conversation is so fucking interesting that they want to join it very badly. After all, we weren't rude. We just didn't follow them like puppydogs, like most guys would. So notice that the hook has been laid. The girls will interrupt us, and say 'Why did you ask us that? What about David Bowie?? What?? What?? How old is your little sister??" They keep trying to get in, and win us into a conversation. **Notice that in all these cases, I'm laying the bait on the hook, and then pulling it back. I don't actually walk away. I just make the initial body movements that I'm about to walk away, because of the way that I pivot my body. But I'm not actually walking away. In fact, I'm not going anywhere. I know that if I lay the hook right, they'll start trying to re-open ME. It's all in hitting it at the *exact* moment, and then turning as if you're about to walk away, but providing some bait that they can open you off of, so they don't have to think too hard (God forbid). IMPORTANT: In addition to setting the hard to get frame, there are other things being laid down here that will help your pickup as it goes along. When you come in with a straight opener, and then start talking, she will often go into "receptive mode". An example that I do in seminar to explain this, is I'll be talking for an hour, and then out of nowhere I'll point to a student and say "Hey man. Do me a favour. Say the coolest thing that you can think of right now. Just say any random cool thing. Whatever you want." *Never* has a student been able to do it. They just sit there gawking, and they can't think of a single thing to say. Likewise, nobody else in the room can either. That's because their brain has been in "receive" mode for the last hour. They've been sucking up all the info, and their mental process of calling things up isn't in gear. It's like doing your math homework. Your first problem takes you 10 minutes. Your second one, 5. Then every one after that takes 1 minute each. That's because your brain has engaged into "math mode". Likewise, if the girl is just listening and listening, she won't be able to qualify herself to you very easily, because she's too busy taking what you're saying all in. So what winds up happening (and many guys will recognize this phenomenon), is that a pause occurs in the conversation, and because the girl feels the emotion of discomfort that she can't think of a way to fill it, she immediately says "Cool. Anyway, I have to go dance now". And POW, even though she was digging you, she left because the emotion of not having anything to say sunk her buying temperature so quickly. Another reason, is because by talking so much, you're logically disengaging her so strongly, that the sudden cognitive shift from the emotional saturation of being gamed without having to contribute anything, to suddenly actually having to (God forbid) THINK about what to say, will slam gear shift her brain into logical thinking so fast, that its like slamming your car from 5th to first gear, while driving 100 down the freeway. So better, is to get BOTH her mind thinking of what to say, and buying temperature still escalating. This happens, because she's getting excited by the process of actually gaming you. You've baited her into selling herself on you. This is a basic persuasion tactic. Nothing more. Before she's even had a chance to decide whether or not she even wants you, you're already taking away the option. But of what she's seen of you, you spike her buying temperature, so she felt high attraction for the second that you were there. That way,
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64 when its time for her to pipe in, she can easily think of something to say, and the set will hold, AND she'll be more likely to be able to qualify herself to you. And that said, they often WILL do things to qualify themselves to you. You can AMPLIFY this again, with some playful hard to get tactics. This is a really fucking key peice. Pay close attention to it. Say for example, you went in with "I'm shy", and then pulled out. They'll say "Why are you shy? We're nice girls!" You can reply "Umm yeah.. You're OK.. Oh shit, you have a belly button ring. Don't show me that." Immediately, you'll see them jumping up and pulling your face down to look at their peircing. They'll say "Look at it! Loooook at it!!!!" Then you look at it, and like they've entranced you, you talk to them a bit more. The same can be done after you exchange signs. They'll tell you that they're Libras, and you say "I can't talk to you anymore.. You're trouble". This is as if you're moderating your own buying temperature. You turn your back on them, and they'll grab your shoulder and say "NO!! You tell me your sign NOW!! Are you a Libra too?!?!" Another one you'll see alot, is that you run the hook, and pull back. Typical girl tactics, they'll start touching you. So say that they touch your shoulder. You can act like it feels really good. You mumble "That actually feels really good - my shoulder is so sore. You have to stop doing that.. Stop.. Seriously.. That's a bad idea.." They'll do it more and more. "OK, you're getting me all emotional.. enough.." Even without hook openers though (which I only use a small percentage of the time), I can still engage the chasing just further into the set. It doesn't require that you do it right off the opener like in the case of hook openers. Its convenient if you can do it early, but it isn't required at all. The only time limit is that the dynamic isn't set in stone that you're too giving and eager. So long as I avoid that scenario, I will only do it off the opener if I spot a buying temperature spike. Otherwise, I proceed as normal, until I see it. I do the same on tonguedowns. I'll be kissing the girl, and then I'll pull back, and mumble "OK, stop.. We seriously have to stop." They'll say "Why?" and keep trying to push more. You say "I'm just getting so....." and then they'll pull you back in. Do this repeatedly. This is an extension to the Style kiss close, where he goes in with "I'm trying so hard not to kiss you right now". Basically, the idea here is that you BAIT the girl, by giving her information on how to seduce you, but telling her not to do it. The thing is though, that you have to be congruent with it. You actually use your bodylanguage at various points, to deliberately try to screw up your own pickup. Because girls are used to getting what they want, they'll re-initiate it HARD. This is NOT just a verbal thing. It's a bodylanguage thing. Girls respond to how you use your body. Try to speak using your body. This is very similar to martial arts. It's like "parry, strike, dodge, parry, strike, dodge.. strike.. etc etc.." You're going "Hit up buying temperature, pull back.. Give her an idea of how to seduce you, pull back.. Give a bit.. Hit up buying temperature again.. Pull back.. Hit up buying temperature again.. Pull back.. Give her an idea.. Pull back.. etc etc" From there, when I do extractions or get a phone number, I also make them work for it. Often, they'll be walking away and say they have to go. I'll say "OK" and just look at them blank. They'll immediately offer their # or to take mine. But that aside, I also use bait to make them go for it. I'll wait until they say something cool, and I'll act like a girl whose buying temperature just shot up. I'll look intrigued or excited and say "Wow. Geez, I have to take you to x-place". I'll pick something that I know they want bad. Something that they'll react to. Or I'll just use something ordinary, but I'll map out ascenario (using future adventures projection of us doing awesome stuff), and just go with that. They'll immediately offer up their number. Then I'll say "OK cool", and just change the subject. Just like how a girl does to guys. What's next is funny to watch. She'll start trying to naturally "slip in" that I should take her number. I'll keep saying "Yeah cool, I'll get it later". I keep doing this, until she's asked me to exchange numbers around 5-15 times over the next hour. Often they'll just ask me for my number out of concern that I won't call. When I finally acknowledge that I'll call is when she does something impressive. Then I'll say "WOW.. What was your number again? I'm definetely calling you." Moreover, girls will also try to extract me for food after the club closes. I'll say "Yeah awesome!" but then turn to my wing and keep talking to him. They keep pushing for it, and they'll run and grab their friend and try to make their friend convince me as well. Then I'll capitulate. I may not necessarily wait for them to initiate it. Many just won't. So instead, I'll wait for them to do something to impress me, and then I'll suggest it. If they're giving me a backrub, I may say "I'm hungry. I want to go to Denny's after this." But I do the same in the other direction. I act just like a flakey stimulus seeking girl. If they bore me, I just walk off in distraction. If something interesting happens, I'll walk over to it to check it out. If a good song comes on, I may just get up and walk away. If they say something I don't like, I'll lean away and start looking at other girls. They have to keep tapping me on the shoulder and tell me to keep talking, in order for me to stay attentive. So how do you seduce in a case where the act of seducing would be incongruent to everything you've built up. They play it up, and the girl tries to get them, but then they stupidly go against everything that they've been doing get them attracted all this time, and start trying to seduce them. This is incongruent. It kills attraction instantly. It relies on some fallacy that the girl likes you for your personality, when in fact she may, but it is not relevant to her *attraction* for you. You're switching gears too quickly, from 5th to 1st gear, in one foul swoop. It doesn't work. Attraction dies instantly. I've had girls who went completely cold, even after spending hours with me - all because I dropped the hard to get act, and started trying to escalate - without doing the right transition work (I will explain). Instead, you have to play it smooth. This requires you to have strong verbal skills and calibration skills. The girl has been getting you comfortable being closer and closer to her the whole time, so its fine if you're right next to her, and even in kino. But you have to keep presenting challenges to her, and punishing and rewarding her with those challenges. She'll say something that I like, and I'll lean in like I'm about to kiss her. Then I won't. I'll slowly start moving back, until she says something else that I like. Then I move in closer than the first time. Then I move slowly back. Then she says something that I like, and I move right in to kiss her, and say "You're getting me all emotional", and pull back. Then I keep my face up to hers, and we talk face to face, with lips grazing eachother, and she says something I like and turn my face and stop talking, and then her talking will merge into triangular gazing
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65 and my lips will graze hers more and then we're making out. I may also say "I'm not going to" at different points, when she's obviously trying to move in to kiss me. If she says "Not going to what?", I won't answer. Rather, I'll just keep talking in the quiet face-to-face way that we've been doing. Also - again, you can do things like "You're wearing Channel? Don't let me smell it.. Don't..." (she'll practically tackle you and put her neck up to your face to make you smell it). Then you can phase shift, but then snap your own state and move back. But as you're moving back, you say things to pump her buying temperature. A GREAT thing to reward girls for is also dancing in front of you, or in between your legs. Although they'd never admit it (Secret Society Breach), dancing is a sexual exhibition. So if you can make her perceive that her dancing is what's getting your buying temperature up, she'll feel fully qualified. You kiss her, but you still don't keep trying. You just do it, and then sit there blank afterwards. She still has more to do. Remember that this is like fucking with magnets. You're constantly backing off, but doing it SPECIFICALLY at a time when you know you've spiked buying temperature, so that she'll chase the stimulus. That's the part that's so hard to convey in text. I show this to guys in workshop no problem, but I can't explain it that well. You have to actually take the time to mentally catalogue all of the little bodylanguage mannerisms that girls use, when they're getting distracted. And then you use these on them. And when you use them, you have to TIME it just at the right time - right when you hit on the right emotion. Always remember that there are so many fucking little ways that you reveal that you really want her. It only takes the slightest slip, and the jig is up. You have to be congruent. Note that if you pull away at the wrong time when her buying temperature is down, she'll backwards rationalize that she is not experiencing attraction, and that she's not attracted to you anymore and that she's HAPPY that you're backing off. This will end it. So you have to have the verbal game and physical coquettishness to play this up properly. Now as for seducing, this is like trapping an animal that you've baited closer and closer. If you do decide to pounce on her, do it ONLY once she has been baited too close, and she won't be able to get away. What I mean by that, is do it only once you have her lying with you snuggling, and then you can start playing your late game. If you do it prior to that, her physical horniness from contact with you won't have kicked in yet, and she'll have nothing to counter-act the state breaker that you dropping the hard to get act was playing up. Notice, btw, that there is both a social hook point and a sexual hook point. Style has talked about the "hook point", as the point in the pickup in which the girls have stopped wondering "why is this guy talking to us", and have decided that they don't want you to leave. They'll do things to help the conversation continue, and your life becomes much easier. The same goes down the line, where there is a sexual hook point. You'll see this alot, especially with girls on vacation. This is where they've actually decided that they want to hook up with you. If you get this kind of girl, you'll notice zero LMR down the line. If you escalate, she will not resist IF she feels that she worked hard enough to get you. If not, then her desire to meet a challenge has not been fulfilled, and instead she thinks "Haa, he wants me for no reason like everyone else. What a chump." Anyway, in summary, a few points to have taken from this are: 1- There is a natural social process that occurs, which women don't want you to know about. They want you to think that you're the one who picked them up, so they don't have to "be responsible" for it. However, this fallacy has spawned guys in this community to develop pickup styles that violate social practices, in a way that isn't effective. (I violate social practices myself, but in a way that nobody spots). That's why when you talk about hitting on girls, the girls don't like it. But if you ask them "How *would* you like a guy to hit on you?" they have no realistic reply. It's because they secretly know that they pickup guys, but don't admit it publically or even to themselves. 2- Being able to attract a girl is often not enough. Girls find themselves wanting to sleep with various guys that they see all day long. What it takes to actually get laid, is to flip her S/C switch, so that she's decided "Today is the day. This guy is the guy". This is why there are many guys in the scene who can run a tight set, but still don't get laid. They have a certain part of their game down, but need to work more on flipping that fucking S/C Switch. 3- Being aware of buying temperature spikes, and knowing WHEN to pull away is key. If you just pull away at arbitrary times, you will not get a result. 4- Guys think that looks is the most important part of a pickup. In fact, its brains. You have to be smart as fucking hell to do this stuff. You have to think fast on your feet, and you have to calibrate. Most guys don't have a repertoire of material that will spike buying temperature, and fall into a trap of talking about situational stuff, which girls just interpret as you trying to get rapport with them, and makes you unchallenging. 5- There is a difference between a girl being attracted to you, and a girl wanting to fuck you. If you are TOO GIVING in set, then you run the risk of being the first guy, not the second. You have to be giving, but strategically. 6- To implant the idea of seducing you into the girls' mind, you have to have a repertoire of material to do so. That is BOTH material to entertain sets so you can pull a girl from her group or open a lone girl in a way that doesn't set off an autopilot response, but also you have to have material that gets her thinking that she wants you and gets her chasing you. This material is a combination of regular material that you use to spike buying temperature, and then pulling back, as well as recognizing anything that you can misinterpret as her trying to seduce you, and then pulling back from that as well, which raises the challenge and makes her do it more, and then you can play with it in the ways that were mentioned. Anyway, hopefully some guys got some useful ideas from this post. I'm not sure how well it came across in writing, and I much prefer just demonstrating it in field, because although its complex in writing, its fairly simple in practice once you know what to look for and what to use.
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“HOW TO PLAY HARD TO GET FOR REAL” THE CLIFFS NOTES VERSION: It’s social custom / natural for girls to choose. Once they choose, they make it easy for the guy, and if he makes it happen then they’ll sleep with him, because it isn’t “their fault” that way. Trying to choose for her by overtly trying to pick her up, or being too giving in the interaction, might be interpreted as abnormal social behaviour, and will often be met with resistance. An effective way of coaxing the choosing mechanism to switch on, is that when you see she has hit an emotion high point in the interaction, look distracted and pull back a bit, so she has to get her brain thinking on how to continue the interaction. This gets her chasing you, and is also good because it gets her thinking to actually talk, which will often aids in the qualification process and is more natural than more abrupt and overt qualification. You can also amplify it by telling her that its working and to stop. You can sometimes do this right from the opener, and other times you can do it down the line. It is also good to get someone to work for something, because it snaps their thought process from finding reasons not to, to finding ways to get it. They’ll be congruent to this, and have sex with you. THE END.. :)
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I first got alot of the insights into what went into this post, when something hit me. What’s the easiest set in which to gain hard attraction? I always thought it was a 3set of girls. But in fact, having done thousands of sets, and looking back at all my lays, it was actually 1guy/1girl 2sets. Weird, huh? But yep, looking back, I’ve pulled so many girls from guy/girl 2sets, that I had to think about what was causing it. Then I realized it. It was because in that kind of set, the dynamic is that you’re really talking to the guy so much and ignoring the girl so that he won’t object. And you don’t have the other girls all freaking out giggling, so the target girl isn’t even wise to the fact that you’re doing anything to game her. In fact, its so fucking disarming just chatting some guy, that when you shoot your attract material at her in between sentences, her buying temperature pumps so fucking fast that she just goes SNAP and decides she wants to fuck you. I’ve seen this over and over, and it was mind boggling to me (like I’ll have smoking 10s throwing themselves at me, and ditching their guys for bathroom makeouts and showing up for day2s after only 9-10 minute sarges - stuff like what you see in movies - I did this with Miss Illonois America in Chicago DYD workshop). This is field tested for over a year, and this is the easiest set to gain attraction in, IME. So just taking the same principle and applying it to other types of sets, I thought about ways to get the same effect. This sort of stuff evolved, and has been field tested extensively and it works.
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Again, just to talk about the results we’re getting from this - guys like Twentysix and SB007 and myself are getting laid consistently with this stuff, by very hot girls. Two nights ago, Twentysix pulled a 5’11 hottie within 45 minutes, using this exact stuff, and fucked her yesterday and today. The night before, he had porno style girl out with as well, again using this exact stuff. The night before that, he had 3 girls in his bed, all trying to fuck him - two of them hot, one a ugly fat chick. He was too scared to pull down his pants with the UG trying to get in, so turned it down (STUPID! SEND HIM HATE MAIL!). The night before that he did a date with 4 girls at once. Sickboy is the same way in NYC. This is the lifestyle we’re leading. I mean this is real rockstar shit, and its not some bullshit that guys are posting on the internet like it was back in the day, where the authors aren’t stepping up and demo’ing in front of anyone willing to watch. Like its actual REAL SHIT, and we finally GOT IT. It is extremely field tested, and it works. This isn’t in question. Like I’d put my skillset to the test beside anyone on this chatboard any time in any venue on any social/age group. I couldn’t say that 6 months ago, but with the kind of consistency I’ve had of late I’d have no problem now.
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ACTIVE DISINTEREST Some thoughts - hopefully helpful despite their absurd complexity. Distinction: C&F False disqualification. ACTUAL false disqualification. The C&F False disqualification is like busting her on her manneurisms. “I’m gay. This is my boyfriend. You can’t to us, we’re gay.” Or she’s giggling, and you say “Go away! Go away!”, while doing the pushaway move that I described in the Tonguedown notes. Or saying “I would definetely NOT get along with this chick!” while the friends are laughing. Again, this is all C&F type stuff. It AMPLIFIES attraction at key points, because it pre-emptively disarms the natural cutoff mechanism that girls have when they feel themselves heating up to an uncomfortable buying temperature too quickly, before proceeding to game more.
OK so what’s REAL false disqualication, and what is its purpose? There exists many social SUBCOMMUNICATIONS that convey social value. • • •
breaking rapport neutral to rapport trying to gain rapport
This goes on in social interactions all day long. Notice that the “coolest” people in the club venue are trying to break rapport with everyone. (They even wear sunglasses in a dark club, to convey that they are too cool and don’t want to make eye contact with anyone). They roll in with their Cadillac SUV, hot chicks in tow, and don’t talk to anyone in the whole club except maybe the people similar to them. YET, if they were to approach YOU or YOUR GROUP in the club, you’d chat THEM, despite that they’d blow you off. You’d chat them because they have high social value in that specific venue. People are DRAWN to interact with people of value, even if they’re not attracted. If Bill Gates wanted to chat, would I? Yes. Even if it was about nothing that helped me whatsoever, I’d just do it for some reason. What Style is talking about here (which is a related to stuff I’ve discussed extensively on the Mystery Lounge), is that value readjustments may be necessary PRIOR to gaming. Gaming = emotionally arousing (pumping her through states in a way that keeps her happy, aka C&F, and many other ways) A girl can still CUT OFF who she allows to emotionally arouse her. VALUE / ATTRACTION are DISTINCT. Value is a FILTER to see if the girl will ALLOW you to attract her. Think to the REVERSE. Girls are aroused EMOTIONALLY (they purchase romance novels that are descriptive). Guys are aroused mostly VISUALLY and PHYSICALLY (they purchase porno and lapances). A fat girl approaches me, and starts touching me. She is arousing me because she is touching my legs with her hands. She is breathing on me. I’m feeling myself getting hard. Immediately I push her away from me, and CUT OFF what she is doing. Do I do this because I am INCAPABLE of deriving some pleasure from fucking her? No. Men fucked fat chicks for years, back when they were socially desirable (IOW: HAD VALUE). There’s no biological reason for me not fucking her. It’s just social. Similarly, girls emotionally cut off men from gaming them. They won’t even acknowledge that you exist, or if they do, what you’re saying is just cute or entertaining. Again, they are of high social value, and thus exhibit this by breaking rapport with people (both through verbal communications “why are you asking me this.. go away”, and non-verbal subcommunications like turning away from you, not matching your facial expressions or excitement levels, not being responsive to your presence, etc) Value is established by: •
OUTER APPEARANCE (genetics, grooming, and clothing subcommunications)
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SOCIAL PROOF (both your entourage, the level to which the surrounding women are appearing to be unlocked to you (which is made obvious by things they subcommunicate as you are in the area, and girls pickup on this), and the level to which people treat you (ie: are they breaking rapport with you, being neutral to it, or trying to gain it) ATTITUDE (bodylanguages and tonalities that you convey, by the words that you say and the way that you say it, and by the people who you interact with in a particular order and the way you interact with them)
So with girls, you can open with a NEUTRAL OPINION OPENER, and this is NOT ENOUGH. Hence Style’s “Neg First” post. This was derived from “JAP Busting I & II” You must break rapport, perhaps several times, prior to gaming. Girls will not ALLOW themselves to become emotionally heated (aka; for their buying temperature to increase) for someone who does not pass through their filter of VALUE. So what does that amount to in practical terms? Here’s an example: TD: Hey guys, I need a female opinion.. Do girls think that the rockstar David Bowie is hot? HBS: I dunno.. TD: Hey, you’re cool.. You guys are smart.. You’re from Long Island, I can tell.. HBS: Hey, we’re not from there.. TD: Yeah OK.. ummm BYE (turns back) HBS: WTF? TD: hahaa.. OK remain calm.. My friends little sister gets this poster of David Bowie on her wall. That is an OLD MAN.. Do you guys like OLD MEN?!?! HBS: Why are you asking us this? TD: (looks at wingman like they are RETARDED and mumbles).... I’m talking. (turns back HARD, engages other set) HBS: What a jerk blah blah.. TD: (turns around) hahhhaa, are you guys still talking about me?? haahhaa. (turns back) HBS: No, we’re just saying blah blah TD: (now commencing NORMAL game) You guys are so cute.. You know, I’m going to adopt you guys, you guys will be my new little sisters.. This is a VALUE ADUSTMENT. Neg first. (I’d also game a high value set differently, but that’s another story.. I’d use the same stuff, but at a different rate, direct it at different people, and also alot less of it) You do the SAME with UG THEORY. Try to gain rapport with them first. Value calibrations imply rapidly ascertaining what their perceived social value is, and matching it. Girls are typically only inclined to allow themselves to be gamed with someone of simliar value. There are exceptions however. TRUST ATTRACTION VALUE These three things are SUBCOMMUNICATED at all times. Some girls want guys with high value ONLY (NYC JAPs are like this, ChickJunkie’s 10$ Opener is good for girls like this, although an NYC JAP would probably pull out her attack whistle if you tried it on them) Some girls value TRUST, which is subcommunicated through many things. Like when you see guys who are out with their girlfriends, and NEVER turn to face them. The girls always have to do the initiating. Some guys telegraph this, and it telegraphs trust. This is why simlar to girls who just want high value guys (like NYC Jewish American Princesses), some girls want to fuck gay guys and convert them. Queers subcommunicate feelings of trust so strong that some girls fall in love with them instantly. Weird ask 10 girls and 2 or 3 will answer you this. Some girls value ATTRACTION. These girls want the construction worker or badboy or the prejudicial racist stereotype of black guys. There are also piles of PROFILES for this that you can spot, and piles of subcommunications that you can learn (think “AMOG TACTICS” post - what do the out-alpha tactics subcommunicate, beyond their surface verbal level?) AN EXAMPLE OF VALUE: Sickboy007 and I want entrance into an exclusive club. We ont only want entrance, but we want if free and we want to be bumped to the front of the line. We do this all the time - I sit back and pretend to be a celeb. my manager.
I say nothing, acknowledge nobody, and act aloof. Sickboy007 is
Sickboy007: Hey, we’re heading up to VIP. BOUNCER: Are you on the guest list?
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69 Sickboy007: You guys treat us really good here. Actually, we’re going to need to bring in our friends tommorow, and we need it Saturday as well. BOUNCER: Are you guys celebrities? Who are you guys? Sickboy007: (pauses) BOUNCER: Hello? Sickboy007: Yeah, umm we’ll definetely need that Saturday. I like you guys, you guys treat us good. BOUNCER: OK bring in you and your friend. Talk to the manager about Saturday and Sunday, I don’t do that stuff. TD & Sickboy007 skip the line, free cover, admitted to VIP. Look at the subcommunications. He didn’t answer the bouncer’s quesitons directly. He barely looked the guy in the eyes. He didn’t shift his body towards him. He didn’t show any nervousness or regard for the bouncer’s physical presence. He didn’t even answer the quesitons with anything COHERENT. The bouncer is TRAINED to pick up on this behaviour, and admit high value guests. I’m not sure if this makes sense, but this is the behaviour we use in the pickup of high value girls. Active disinterest can also cause attraction because it engages certain things in a girl.. many things actually. A few are: 1- She feels that she can become emotional around you, and you won’t fuck her while she’s in this illogical state (which then its too late and you do) - This is hard to explain, and is a concept that has never been discussed on mASF. So I’d have to post wack of stuff to get you up to speed on this. It’s very real though man. Logic is the BREAKS that girls use to stop emotion. When you disengage logic, emotion takes over, and she becomes sexually RECEPTIVE. This is DIFFERENT from how guys get (which is sexually AGGRESSIVE). Girls become sexually aggressive sometimes, but most lays will happen when they’re too emotional to adaquetely object, rather than when they’re horny and want to fuck. Remember the lay report from Ryobi, where I said “just drag her out of the club caveman style”? I could recognize that she was in a sexually AGGRESSIVE state, so I advised him to caveman. But if girls are sexually RECEPTIVE, you need to go about it differently. Different gameplan. A gameplan where active disinterest is fundamental. 2-
It engages her “chase” instinct, which prevents the “screen” instinct. Think to when you’re at a store, and the salesman is PUSHING something on you. Your thought process is “find stuff wrong with it.. find reasons not to”.. If its the last one, and other people are buying it, you SCRAMBLE to get it. Your thought process is totally different.
3-
It subcommunicates VALUE, which some girls actually find to be a huge turnon. (like girls who want gay guys because their core desire is trust, many girls just want value and don’t care about attraction that much.. the mere PRESENCE of someone with value is ENOUGH to make them EMOTIONALLY AROUSED, so the value actally takes care of the arousal process FOR YOU).
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ACTIVE DISINTEREST IS NOT ASEXUAL – IMPORTANT I had a few thoughts this week, from watching some guys I was working with. Some guys (I can't remember who) re-labelled the term Active Disinterest as "Tentative Interest". I think this came from Swinggcat, I'm not sure. To me this is all the same thing, but for some guys this disintinction could be useful because they are learning only from text so its important for the terminology to be as accurate as possible. Since they aren't seeing direct examples, nothing can be taken for granted I suppose. A few pointers on this: 1- I always tell guys to focus on having fun and being social rather than appearing to be trying too hard to "pickup" (so as not to be perceived and treated as the next cheesy sexually needy guy of the night). But that said, I assume that guys are coming across like MEN here, and there is a sexual vibe between them and the girls already. Many guys I've seen though will take this too far, which is understandable, but IMO its a mistake. I personally will pull a lot of stripper type stuff, like coquettish "You can't have me" looks. But in doing so, the fact that you're subcommunicating "you can't have me" *assumes* that the vibe between you is sexual. Otherwise, the idea of her not HAVING YOU wouldn't come up at all.. See? :) Direct examples of ways to do so include quickly turning and facing the hot girl directly, moving a bit closer to her, and shooting a quick triangular gaze from hard eye contact down to her lips, then looking back up to her eyes and making a playful smile and backing away from her a bit to turn to her friends. Watch the girls go insane at this. You could then shoot her a playful nod like "Not gonna happen". Then engage the friends a bit, even though the hot girl knows there's something between you, and watch her work to get your attention by trying to cut in. Then when she pulls her typical "I can get what I want" girl jumping in front of everyone stuff to get your validation, say "Hey! Wait your turn. How do you guys roll with this girl?!", and then give her another VERY sexual playful look, then back off again. Even shoot her a touch on the shoulder and raise your eyebrows, and back off again. Often she'll throw herself up in your face at this point, and from there you can work her directly because she's chosen you. With group theory, and ignoring the target, that doesn't always mean *full* ignorance. It just means not making the friends socially uncomfortable, so that you can benefit from the girl thinking "Wow, my friend love this guy", which can only help you. It doesn't mean get preoccupied and distracted from the goal, though, by being focused on the wrong things. Otherwise you'll get cases like the hot girls walking off so their UG friend can have a chance with you, which some newbies have reported. Again, much apologies to the guys to whom this is a blatantly obvious truism, but after some recent posts cropping up, I suppose that it needed clarification. Point is, once the girl has chosen you, you can get her comfortable (as posted in T/T recently) and sit her down and WORK. For me, it is more efficient to bait the girl into chasing me within 1-2 minutes, then going in and having her screening me and working against the current. Because I have my bodylanguage and confidence down fully, I am not concerned about being sexually needy with my openers, and I know that the girls will take care of this for me 90% of the time without me having to verbally prompt them (since my bodylanguage and vibe will do this for me). 2- When opening groups of guys, you can either work the guy and ignore the girl, work the guy until he's commited to not having a prob with you being there and then move to the girl (this should take only seconds to 1 minute), or blowing the guy out completely (this last one is easily done when you are 'alpha', because the girls give you so much attention so quickly, that the guys just give up and walk away with their tail between their legs). I use all three, by using common sense. I've seen some posts lately about what is better, going to the target or engaging the whole group. The answer is to use your brain and common sense. Do what is natural and the path of least resistance in the particular situation. The only rule of pickup is to be clearly cooler than the girl (I recall David D calling this "The Prime Directive: Never communicate lower social value"). That being the case, take the path of least social resistance, based on what you can tell will obviously work. Many of the rules of pickup as seen on ASF are generalities and ideas that are intended to make things run more smoothly, but always need to be moderated by common sense. My personal most common approach on guy/girl mixed sets is to engage the group, but the second the guy gives tacit consent to me being there, I blow him out on the spot and engage the girl directly. This takes only seconds. Typically I prefer for him to stay there, because I can eclipse him so strongly that him sitting there watching me only increases my status. This is like striking out like a tiger or something. Like seriously, you go in and come across way cooler than the guy within seconds, and the instant that he obviously is lower than you he is tooled and you cut into the girl and go for it. Still, if I see the girl is going crazy getting all wet by me ignoring her, I'll keep it up. Some girls are just like that, and if I see it I calibrate by playing it out. Or the dude may be just a cool guy, in which case I'll hang with him and I know he'll hook me up (which has happened to me many times). Either way, when Mystery posts about engaging the group, he is not advising the kind of Social Robot behaviours that Style recently posted about. Have I mentioned common sense? :) 3- "Cutting in". This term is something I yell at my wings when I see them fucking up and not cutting into the girl they want. You'll hear me yell "CUT IN!" On average, I need only engage the group between 30 seconds to 3 minutes before I have the girl I want chasing me. Mystery is the same. He's usually in the corner with his girl in about 3-5 minutes, and making out with her in about 6-15. I differ slightly in that I prefer to extract the girl from the club and makeout at the next venue, which I do within about 20 minutes, although admittedly I'll do fast makeouts on workshop just to show off even though I don't always think its the best path at that time.
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71 This is where many guys go wrong with the active disinterest. I want the girl close to me ASAP (within 6 inches of my face). There are a few ways I do this would include: A-CUTTING IN: To cut in means to move closer to the girl, without being jumpy or nervous or getting too much in her face. It's like how you would walk up to and pick up a cat without making it run off. I do so by turning my face sideways and looking distracted for about half a second, and then closing in. Or turning my bodylanguage, or doing it on high points when she's giggly because she's suggestable at that point and if she's giggly she won't object to escalation because she's not thinking logically. Because I don't shoot into her face too abruptly, she doesn't get uncomfortable. This is done with bodylanguage. Very easy. Most guys make mistakes here because they infringe on personal space too quickly, the girls lock up. Also, because they don't look confident, it looks premeditated and too outcome dependent, which makes the girls feel uncomfortable like "What's he trying to pull?" instead of "This fun alpha guy does whatever the fuck he wants and I don't question it because he's congruent." Typically, I will have the girl engaged with my palms up and her hands on mine, so I can do IOI tests regularly to see where she's at. The second she's ready to be pulled, I examine the social situation and make it happen or bridge and then venue change, continue to solidify the bridge, or move to the next set. Oftentimes I am perched on a bar stool with my legs open and her leaning in between them. This is the IDEAL PUA position, and is very important. If you read Herbals latest LR in Field Reports, you'll see him talking about Mystery in this position, which is something I adopted from him and I've found very lethal. It's also great on so many levels, because you can also put her hands on your knees, and lean back to see if she keeps them there, etc etc. B-Use a routine: Another quick way is to run the trust test routine or something (like show her something on herself), to make her have to come up to you in order for you to demonstrate whatever it is you're doing. Again, quick and easy. C-Bait: The other way is something that you don't do, but that just happens. That's that oftentimes the girl will see her friends liking you, and because of this she'll practically start molesting you. This is very common. The other night Twentysix is working a group, and the hottest girl attacks him and pulls him home and fucks him within 45 minutes. Surprisingly not uncommon, although the latter case is an obvious case of fool's mate, even though the 2 dash 6 is still happily dating her now. D-Split the set with my wing: Here you just have a wing come in and chat the girls but ignore your girl, and you just move your bodylanguage sideways and engage her in a conversation, so you can work easily here. Notice here that regardless of how it goes down, I'm face to face with the girl within seconds to a few minutes (usually seconds to one minute). This is not a case where I'm forced to engage the set for long. It's simple social common sense to work social gatherings and to take the path of least resistance. You need not do so, its just often easier and more consistent if you do. Yes, girls are picked up without group theory or any knowledge of ASF, so the aforementioned remarks are obvious truisms. The point is ease and consistency. The same goes for not facing the girls when you roll in. I've seen guys who have read old posts of mine where I've suggested to enter the set initially sideways. This is the path of least resistance, and there is definetely no harm done in doing so, but oftentimes it can help to make it open more smoothly. That said, it is important not to forget the part from that same post about "The second she earns it, turn and face her". Her giving you her attention (Style calls this the "Hook Point") will usually happen within 1-15 seconds, and at that point you should be engaging them completely, and running your game on them. If it takes longer, wait. But that's an error at that point, and you're in damage control (still, I've pulled many sets that opened awkwardly). SUMMARY: Get the girl engaged ASAP. Active Disinterest does not mean that you are A-Sexual. Use active disinterest and engage the group when common sense tells you that it is the path of least resistance. If her interest level is at a point where you need not do so, then don't. Mystery himself has done this as long as I've known him, and guys need not be concerned about losing sets by doing so. If you detect that the friends WILL interfere, you can also re-engage them easily if you feel that that is the best move. Anyway, hopefully this had some useful distinctions to some of you guys. To me this seems very obvious, but after browsing some recent posts and seeing some guys in the field who had no previous real life interactions with PUAs, I felt that it was something may have been in need of clarification. I also recommend that guys go out and experiment with both extremely direct sexual approaches, and group theory / AD approaches. This is the only way to gain calibration skills -> experimentation. Many guys will get stuck on one approach style, but until you've made a style work and gotten laid with it, you don't even understand it enough to criticize it. If your game is smooth, you should get good results regardless of style. The style that you develop is simply the most effective and consistent per individual. Greetings from Sydney Australia, btw. I'm down here right now, and the girls here are *unreal* in some of the clubs and beaches. I've had an amazing week, and I'm visiting with my sister who I haven't seen in two years - so obviously I'm having an amazing time.
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THE BEGINNING, AND TRANSITIONING 12-
You may be going in a bit incongruent. Try coming up with openers that really happened, or going in with a stronger frame. Frames are often dictated by vocal inflextions, like if your voice trails off in pitches that subcommunicate neediness and approval seeking. On a bad night, even now, I can spot myself doing this - sets won’t open well. Just for kicks, experiment going in direct that you want a convo, but not a pickup. Like say “Hey, what’s up guys?” Then go in with something non-opinion, but just talking. Like “I saw the funniest thing today.. (insert field tested light/funny story)”. Then go immediately into the opinion opener. The opinion opener’s purpose is to engage them. Like to give them the opportunity to have feedback, so sort of mini-qualify them to stay another few minutes. I don’t open like this as much, but if I’m finding that I’m coming across like I’m covering up that I really want to talk, I’ll use it. The difference is that you’re admitting that you want to talk, but you’re still getting the benefit of the structured opinion opener. If you look at the structure of the old Mystery ‘Elvis’ or ‘Ghandi’ openers, it was just walking up and starting to talk. No opinion. Then he stacked. Opinion openers are more popular now because Style and myself use them, but really either type can work.
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Add in more false time constraints. “I’ve really got to get out of here”, “I’ve only got thirty seconds”, or “My friends are going to kill me, but....” Use callback humour. Look up “Setting Traps” in my archive. Call them whatever funny thing, and then say “Yeah, I go out looking to pick up x-thing”. Or say “You’re very investigative. You’re like Nancy Drew”. Just blow it off and continue. Say “I’m talking..” and then continue like you didn’t hear it. Or just say “Cute” and then keep going. Incidentally, for all the detailed structures I’ll post about AMOGs or PU in general, I often just use dismissiveness. Like I just ignore the problems and barrel through. I just post the other stuff because this is a chatboard and I like posting what I’m up to. But that doesn’t mean its always necessary. “Is she always like this? How do you roll with her?!” is a great line for many situations (I think it rocks and its very playful), but not so much for this one.
A)
A structure could look like this (just an example, not necessarily followed): • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •
opener mini cold read to get them to bust out laughing (best friends test, “the view”, “little sisters adoption”, etc) light funny story #2 mini cold read light story #2 teach them something (Cs vs Us, or teach them about some cool facts or philosophy or reflexology or something) Trust Test Tension Test Style’s EV CUBE Comfort build by telling her about stuff you’re passionate about, while slowly phase shifting and projecting sexual state Kiss tactic Build comfort a bit and joke around and qualify Return her to her friends and tell them you guys are going to be getting to know eachother better and make them all like you pull or #close with plans
Watch “Jerry Seinfeld: Comedian” and see how he improves his material with constant trial and error. HAVE an opener, at least 2 stories, and something interesting to teach them. Notice that in the structure, you’re GEARING THEM DOWN a bit, from fun/funny, to intrigue/sexual. B)
You’re not STACKING. OK pay attention to this, because its counter-intuitive. You can just stack topics. Like you can just jump from one topic to the next. The split-second that you are done with the opinion opener, you can go “Hey, I saw this.. it rocked..” and continue. Then you can say “Hey, did you know...” and continue.. STACK. Don’t worry about transitions or anything, especially at a nighttime venue where it won’t be apparent at all.
I understand that this will feel weird and be very counter-intuitive. But try it and report back. It works. I know its weird, but once you try it you’ll see that it won’t be questioned. Awesome that you’re in the field man. Keep it up. Great that you’re posting your SPs. btw, add in more push/pull to it. Try: • •
• •
“You know what? You and I would not get along. You know why? We’re too similar.... You wouldn’t take my shit, and I wouldn’t take your shit.” (From Mystery) “I hate you.. Actually wait, that may have come across wrong. I really really hate you. You know why? You remind me of Justine from Grade 2. She always beat me at hot hands. Here, let’s see..” and then do it.. (From Swinggcat, who incidentally I think I’m sarging with tonight at the White Lotus Club so if anyone in LA wants to go there and spy on us feel free, just please keep out of the way as we are also on a day2 with some girls from earlier) “You’re weird..” “You’re funny..”
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“We’re broken up..”
INITIATING APPROACHES – ANGLES, MOVEMENTS Here are the ways that I initiate approaches, off the top of my head. Alright, I’ll have a look at: 1) 2) 3) 4) 5) 6)
STANDARD GROUP ‘ABOUT TO LEAVE’ APPROACH PLUNK DOWN APPROACH ‘C&F OBSERVATION’ APPROACH OPERATION MAYHEM KINO OPENER APPROACH LOW-KEY FASCINATION APPROACH APPROACHING WITH A WING
1) STANDARD GROUP ‘ABOUT TO LEAVE’ APPROACH: MM guys will recognize this. All this I learned from Mys. This is typically for approaching GROUPS. I walk by, ask something (facing sideways), and PRETEND like I’m leaving, and then say “I’ll just sit down for a minute” (------JLAIXstartwalking-slowspeed (feet facing RIGHT of screen, but neck turned to LEFT of the screen) 2)
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81 >---JLAIX (looking at bottom of screen, feet still same) | | V HBStreet (face though is now looking back up to see if you were talking to her) 3) • JLAIX (looking at bottom of screen, feet still same) | | ^ (now feet AND face fully turned to see you, and walk back up to chat you) 4) >-J From now on every time you see her throw her some kind of bait and see if she grabs on to it. By throwing the bait you are giving her an easy way to start talking to you, and that is what you are waiting for. For instance, if you make a joke, see if she makes a funny comment back. If you touch her glass and say “cheers”, she might ask you what you’re drinking. She may say something unrelated to your bait, like “Nice necklace” or “Where did you get that ring?” If she asks you a question it’s always a good sign. One that I here all of the time is, “You look familiar…Where do I know you from?” To this I answer, “Do you watch adult movies?” If she doesn’t take the bait keep on walking! Some girls will take the bait right away and a conversation will start naturally, and other conversations might not happen until you have seen them 5 or 6 six times. That’s a good thing, because every time you see her you are reminding her about you and building anticipation. The most important thing you are doing here that most guys miss is that you are setting yourself up as a challenge. People don’t value what they don’t have to work for, and to most women, especially attractive women, men are too easy! Imagine if you were a beautiful woman, and you had guys kissing your ass and begging to be with you your entire life. It gets old fast, and when a woman like this meets a man who doesn’t put her on a pedestal and makes her chase after him, it drives her crazy! Every woman loves a challenge, and this will separate you from 99% of the guys out there. Ask a few girls you know about this, and ask them to describe how a man can be a challenge to them. You will gain some really valuable insight. The familiarity that this method creates is one of the reasons why it is so effective. If you do your job on the first contact with a new girl, or group of girls, the next time you see them they will remember you and all of their walls will have come down. This plays a HUGE part when you are dealing with groups, because when women go out they will naturally try to keep their friends together and keep them from getting hit on. If you approach the group as a whole a few times and show them what type of person you are, it will make it much easier to isolate your target when that time comes. Instead of the girls being cautious about their friend leaving, they will be jealous! Reeling in the Fish After a few rounds in the club you are probably going to have a one or two women that you have a really good feeling about. Maybe the two of you had a great conversation, maybe she “accidentally” touched your arm a few too many times, or maybe she is just the hottest woman you’ve talked to all night. Either way, it’s time to close the deal! Now that you have it narrowed down it’s ok to seek your woman out, and the sooner the better. Make sure you stick with the bait formula. When you find her say something funny, ask her a question, or make a comment about something to give her the opportunity to start a conversation. If she’s with her group of friends, it’s time to isolate her and make your move! You don’t have to take her away from her friends completely, but it is important to get into a one-on-one conversation with her. Remember, the main reason her friends may try to “cockblock” is because they aren’t sure if their friend is into you and they want to “save” her. Hopefully when you were making your rounds you talked to the group as a whole, or they at least saw their friend give you a positive reaction. This familiarity will give you a big advantage.
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88 Ending Conversations It’s always good to end a conversation first, and a great way to do it is to say, “Hey it was nice meeting you…I’m gonna catch up with my friends. Maybe I’ll see you later”. Saying “maybe” is very important. It shows that you don’t care if you do see her again, and it leaves her wondering if you will. If you say, “I’ll catch up with you later” she knows that she is gonna see you again and it removes part of the mystery and the challenge that women need to feel attraction. On Group Approaches and Cock Blocks If a girl is with her friends but they are out of earshot or already talking to others, it is ok to single her out and talk to her by herself. If her friends come back and interrupt don’t worry about it…It’s their job to watch out for their friend. Think nothing of it and include her friends in the conversation. If one of her friends completely captures her attention for more than a few seconds, don’t stand around like a puppy! If you were just throwing a little bait and the two of you hadn’t really started talking yet, keep right on walking without saying anything. If the conversation was flowing nicely you can do one of two things. Your first option is to end the conversation as you normally would, but shorten it to, “Maybe I’ll see you later” and walk away. If it’s really on or it’s getting late and your not sure if you will see her again, turn away at least 90 degrees and do something. Light a smoke, order a drink, check your phone, etc, and wait for HER to come back to YOU. If she doesn’t come back, either start talking to someone else or walk away. When you see her again she will respect you for being your own person and not waiting around like a chump. On-Going Cycle The nice thing about this cycle is that it doesn’t limit itself to one night, because you are always meeting new girls and throwing bait to old ones. I used to live in a smaller town with only 3 bars, and at the end of every night there would be certain girls that I had talked too only once and others that I had talked too 3 or 4 times a night for months. Some of the girls would come around eventually and we would end up hooking up, while others became great bar buddies that would introduce me to their cute girlfriends! Damn I love this stuff! When I moved to a bigger city I thought it would be different since there are literally hundreds of bars here, but I learned that every town has it’s own bar scene and you will always run into a lot of the same people. The cycle continues! The Natural Way When I go out to a club I look like a normal, social guy that happens to get a lot of women. No one would ever label me a “Lounge Lizard” or a “Pimp”, because to the untrained eye and the women around, it appears as though I am just hanging out like everyone else, and having a little bit more fun. This is very important because if a woman thinks you are a pick up artist and you do this all the time, you will have to work ten times harder to make it happen. I have a friend that I go out clubbing with all of the time, but we never really talk about techniques since we have very different styles. He overheard me explaining this method to someone and said, “You mean you are actually doing something when you are walking around like that?” And I hit the town with this guy all the time! This format is designed to be a natural way to meet women. If you want to grab a drink or have a smoke along the way, feel free. You are there to have a great time! If you run into some of your buddies, by all means stay and have a beer. If you run into some girls that you know, stay and chat longer because the other girls in the club will see you (social proof) and your girlfriends may know some cuties that you should meet! Some tactical points Never Phrase Anything as a Question you can phrase stuff as a question, but NOT as a question that can be answered with “yes”, “no” or the likes. every time you ask such a question you´re making it easy for her to turn you down on it. i did this unconciously right most of the time but the ebook from seductionscience.com (which i have to give some credit since it´s actually a pretty good read) brought it to my immediate attention instead, present your questions as CHOICES: instead of “can i kiss you?” or “do you want to kiss me?” (which can be both answered easily with a “no”): “would you like me to kiss you softly and slowly or passionate?” instead of “do you want to dance?”: “do you want to go dancing or rather stay a wallflower?” get it? never pose a question that can be answered with a simple “no” or a simple “yes”. this is a BASIC conversational skill btw SMS tactics screw sms, and screw mobiles. i always used to lose the damn things so after losing the last about 8 weeks ago i am without. and i do not plan to buy a new one. girls get my home number (where i am like never avaible), and i have theirs. if i want to keep contact with someone i will call him/her myself. end of story. After the seduction: Best Ways to Break Up??? all good tyler, the only thing is she will find another guy, and he will not find her too loose. so from now on the guy that told her that will be known as the guy with the small dick, which she will tell all her friends and girlfriends. seriously, just be honest. next time, give the girl a speech like the one below BEFORE you get intimate.
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89 “i desire you, and i love spending time with you. however, that desire can be gone at any time, it can be gone in a day, in a week, maybe in years, maybe it will NEVER go. but it´s just the way i am, so if it´s at that time, and the desire is gone... you know what that means right? and if it is that time i will be honest with you, cause honesty, to me, is absolutely crucial in ANY relationship. so let´s charish the time we have, let´s live the way we feel now to the fullest, okay? :)”, then KISS her. “fake” takeaways are very powerful. ps: why would you even WANT to “slam her down”? it´s YOU that got the issues not that girl. just leave her alone, you think “slamming other people” will make you feel better or fulfilled? think again. just move on, don´t ADD to the misery of that girl. Attraction =Show her my value is higher
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2 C&F ROLEPLAYING FRAMES I USED LAST WEEKEND Here are some tactics that I used recently which I found interesting. They’re not necessarily the type that I would INTENTIONALLY implement, but rather something that you could field if the situation came up. Just got back from the Las Vegas MM workshop. I pulled 2 nights in a row, so here are the two tactics that were most useful - one from each. The first one, I knew that the friend would not allow me to come back to their suite together, so I came up with this conspiracy to disarm objections. The frame was that we were TRICKING everyone around her that I was her brother, and that’s why we were so touchy feely. It was funny to watch guys trying to figure out if it was for real or not, since we were incestuously touchy feely. Actually I think that initially we told people we were brother and sister, but once she chose me then she got more serious and actually came up with the idea to tell her friend that I was gay. So we told the obstacle that I was her new gay best friend, and that we were going to go shopping the next morning together and that I would be her fashion consultant. Weird.. field tested though. The second one, I used a drama created by a friend of my friend. When doing takeaways/backturns/activeignorance, you’ll find that the girls will always try to immediately re-validate themselves on the closest guy they can find. So for example, if I do a backturn on a girl, she’ll usually try to hook up with my wingman. Chicks always try to tool my friends like this. For example, when Papa was out with his 6’ blondie, she would keep grabbing my ass and asking me questions. I’d just ignore her. Or with Mystery especially, he does a back turn and the girl will start rubbing my chest. Again, I just face Mystery like he’s the shit, so that he’ll be social proofed by me and so that she’ll still need HIM for revalidation. In this case, I picked up a hostess from a restaurant across the street, and she’d come to meet up with me. She was watching me conduct the workshop, which I just said was Mystery’s workshop and that I had nothing to do with it - I was just his buddy. Some of Mystery’s superstar famous celeb friends were there also, which social proofed the shit out of me and made it even easier. So she’s all into me, and I give massive accomplishment intros to my friend. Anyway, while I’m off PU’ing other chicks (I had no choice, it was workshop), she gets insecure and goes and starts flirting with the friend of my friend who I’d given the accomplishment intro to. Him, thinking with his dick instead of his brain or maybe just disrespecting me I have no clue (probably the second since he took her phone# the next morning), starts making out with her. Haa, that’s what I love about the game. You never know what to expect, and that’s what makes it fun. Even guys in YOUR set can CB you if you’re not careful and read the plays as they come - and this one I’d seen coming so I knew that I would need a gameplan. So I walk up to him and tap him on the head, but he keeps going. Oh well. Anyway, I walk up again and just say “hey kiddo, nice meeting you, I have to get going”. Then I turn around and walk off. I’ve actually PRACTISED my backturn and walk off timing, to make it really make an impact. I hate to admit this, but a few weeks back when I was consciously practising it I actually was starting to piss off random people in society who didn’t even deserve it. hmmm, oh well, anyway this has really helped my game though. So anyway, I backturn and she tackles me, disses up the dude, and starts begging me to still chill with her. I keep walking, so that she’s out of eyesight with the guy making out with the chick, and then I USE the drama to my ADVANTAGE and just say: “OK kiddo. Do you want me or not?” She says yes and I immediately pull. Boom. 100% no resistance because she knows that its a re-validation thing. So the two tactics here are: 1) 2)
C&F frame - building conspiracies to justify you being all over eachother, and also to get the girl home in the same cab/car as her roomate. Using DRAMA that can be created during a takeaway to make the girl fear INSTANTLY that she’ll lose you on the spot as a result of her actions, and setting a frame where you she has to immediately RE-VALIDATE you if she wants to keep you. This is very much CHICK THINKING, because they think in TERMS of validation. This is also why they kino you when you tease/neg them, and why they go out and cheat on their boyfriend the second they get into a fight.
Oh yeah an addition to this, a tactic that I used on a HB10 virgin chick. I actually only found out that she was a virgin THREE FUCKING HOURS into the set. Are you fucking kidding me??? “Remember TD, this is what makes it fun.. You never know what drama to expect” This is what I keep telling myself, and to be honest I genuinely believe that its true. Otherwise it would be like playing the same level over and over, the same food, etc etc. No validation or fun problems to find solutions to. Anyway, at one point I go to throw her on my lap, and she resists. I say “Do you think I’m your new gay best friend?? Do you think this?” - sort of with a facial expression like The Rock.
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91 Then I get up and go to leave. Again, she tackles me and jumps on me and begs me to stay. Punishment/reward. I liked that one. Of course I left anyway (ouch! still will teach this girl not to talk to players though). Normally for a TRUE BLUE HB*10* I would stay for anything. Especially a virgin, which unlike most guys is actually a quality I like (personal preference). But this was Las Vegas and I wasn’t going to have time for a day2. Otherwise I’d have tried to make her my new GF. WOW this girl was fucking hot. I first suspected it when she’d make allusions to me not losing my faith and saw the cross thing on her necklace, and then it was a downward spiral from there. In that set, I also used an interesting frame where I’d constantly say “stop getting me all emotional”, as in to steal their frame. Also, I used a cool line where I would say “I hate this so much. I am SO attracted to you, but we’ll never get to know eachother enough in one night to justify travelling to a different city to meet up.” I would say this OVER AND OVER. I’d keep saying how amazing she was and what a unique value she had to me that was so hard to find, but I’d instill over and over that there was absolutely no way that I was interested in her whatsoever because of Xdisqualifier (in this case, geographical distance). I’d also do it as a REWARD, so she’d be scrambling to think of things to impress me, and then I’d reward her, but in a way where she’s STILL not getting me. I mean this got the girl qualifying how we would meet up again to an extent that I’ve never seen before. She wouldn’t shut up about how we’d find ways to be together and all this. I did something similar in Montreal where I remember also saying: “You know its funny.. because we’re both cool people.. and you’re like this awesome chick.. (then looking at my wingman) - I like this chick.. dude, I actually LIKE this chick.. but honestly are we ever going to hang out.. nope. we’re both cool people and we’re not the type to go out of our way for anyone.. You KNOW its true.. are we ACTUALLY going to wake up tommorow in the middle of the day like not all in this club environment and get around to playing phone tag and calling eachother.. nope.” etc etc.. I played off this until she begged me to come visit. (I say beg, because I literally don’t let the frame go until she’s begging, which I accomplish by going back and forth, looking like she’s making progress winning me over, but then finding new objections for her to disarm). Oh yeah, I also go thtis email from a 24 year old virgin Olympic Swimming champion, saying she’s coming to visit me in Kingston. SWEET. I met her 8 months ago at the Guvernment. Too bad she lives in Toronto, or I’d give her a chance because she’s serious quality. Like she genuinely respects herself and knows her own worth, and she’s funny and confident/cool. Oh well.. :) So I remember back when I emailed her originally, she wrote me back this long letter about how she was drunk when she met me and how she had just come out of a relationship. I returned an email with translations in it. It was mad funny. Like I’d quote a few sentences and write something like: “TRANSLATION: I thought that you were cool enough to talk to that I could give you an email, but since you didn’t sufficiently attract me I have to say that I just came out of a relationship, even though if I was attracted I obviously would never bring this up.” I added in funny comments like I was doing it as a joke, not because I was pissed or taking it seriously. So it was like a funny email that I was sending her. She writes me back saying I’m fucking crazy and weird. So what I do I do? Actually - nothing. I was busy with other chicks at the time and just didn’t bother to write back. But what was funny in this case was that she took that as a challenge (similarly to the cases above) and started writing me email after email, inviting me to all these events and sending me her phone #s, and even when she took a vacation she emailed me the #s over there. I would reply with these half-cooked short emails because I GENUINELY didn’t care, but that just made her want me more. Damn, I’m actually attracted to this chick, but I won’t hookup with her I think because I honestly don’t want to fuck up a rare bright light. I’ll leave it to some other fucking bastard player to do that.. :) Still, I have to see the funny irony here that these girls have preserved themselves for like the least deserving guy on the planet (by what THEY consider deserving). It’s like “Ummm, what do you think it meant when I cold approached you in a massive group and looked like this was totally normal??? Maybe I’ve done this ONCE OR TWICE in the past???” Cognitive dissonance at its best. Funny thing is though, that I bet if either of them lived in the same city as me, I’d be easily willing to give up PU for them. Both are hot, cool, confident, smart, accomplished, and don’t use drugs (the last is something I really value in an LTR just as a personal taste, because I like girls that I have alot in common with). Honestly, I appreciate girls who value themselves, and in my personal opinion sex with random partners using condoms isn’t as good as sex with someone you admire (and who is ridiculously hot obviously) and without a condom whenever you want. I think my skillset is still 1-2 years away from critical mass, so I’ll probably wait longer until LTR (my game still goes up exponentially on a weekly basis due to field work and a better cognitive model than most people are privy to, which I’ll post about at length “Spastic Ramblings part III” my longest most ridiculously abstract post yet, when I have like a zillion hours to write it down in proper semi-non-cryptic format). Anyway, I guess the point of this is that disqualifying yourself HARD allows you to combine it with MASSIVE SOIs. I haven’t field tested this extensively, but at first glance it seems like it might work well.
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CHICK CRACK: MINI-COLD READS WhiteDragonPUA (Eddy) and I always joke that shit like the CUBE, handwriting analysis, strawberry-fields, and palmreading, is CRACK for chicks. They HAVE TO KNOW what stupid shit you can tell them about themselves, based on something ARBITRARY. I know Eddy has used this to bait chicks into isolation on MANY occassions, extracting all sorts of things from them in exchange for whatever fabricated information he’s willing to spew at them. So what is the reasoning behind this???
THEY-HAVE-TO-KNOW.
THE BACKGROUND: QUICK REVIEW (this stuff is to the best of my recollection, and its been a long time since I read ‘The Sexual Key’.. this is the main USEFUL part of it): As explained in “The Sexual Key”, men like LINEAR progress, women like INTERNAL progress. MEN: Goal -> Goal -> Accomplishment “I got the scholarship.” - “I don’t have to work this summer.” - “I have more time to pick up chicks.” THE PAYOFF IS THE RESULT (“more time” in this case) WOMEN:
---->---goal-->--------->------/--->----goal---->--------V ^ \ | | | | ^ accomplishment------/ V | | \---goal------- "Outstanding post, bro. I've been just giving quick answers, like "professional partier" and then joking about it, but I like how you come up with a way to circle around the identity value-conveying routines that the girl can relate to you. I'll be working on this in my sets tonight for when girls ask me what I do." ([email protected]) If I just come in and say "I'm a magician", my target really wouldn't feel that we share commonalities or lifestyle. She would have to rely on stereotyping. I would also not appear very humble. She would feel that I'm too different for her and I would otherwise overqualify myself. Some women it seems would actually reject a date with George Clooney because they don't understand his lifestyle they feel they lack commonality and this lack creates discomfort. But what if he gave her his back-story and taught her what happened, step-by-step, to him to become who he is today? This is the concept of GROUNDING applied. By giving my target my back-story, I ground myself to her reality ("When I was as a regular Joe") so that she could see how she too could be the type of person I now am ("This is who I am today") if only she were to make similar decisions along the way. You can even later use this format to encourage your target to ground HER life to YOU during the F2M attract phase by having her stick to the format. Simply ask, "Woah. Back up. So what happened next?" Notice in my list of grounding stories above that the common theme is "This is what lead me to become who I am today." Thundercat too must do this - once he decides what his identity in fact IS. Does this mean he must steal my identity to do MM? No. He won't be telling stories of his first birthday party magic show. That would be a lie. He won't talk about how he learned the secret to a card trick by beating it out of a classmate of his, or how years later that classmate saw him on TV and said, "I can't believe your future changed that day." No, he won't use my specific material. Nor will you. But both you and Thundercat will use material from your own real life experiences as I do. The format or game plan is the Mystery Method. The personalized MATERIAL you use to fill in the format is what constitutes your style. CHEROKEE > "When I was on a day 2 with this girl the other week, I got wrapped up in talking about my plans to become a , I was just rambling for god knows how long... and the girl, in bed with me, later said this to me: 'I've never seen a guy so passionate about something, when you were talking about , you just lit up... and watching you talk about it made me melt.'" ([email protected]) If Tyler D. for instance says "I'm a public speaker", what does that mean to his target? She can only go by an accepted stereotype and unless she herself is a public speaker (commonality) he needs to explain how he became one. He must explain that if she did the same things he did, she too would be a public speaker. If he were to say, "I travel the world giving lectures on social dynamics", he would likely over-qualify himself. If he instead said, "Well, when I was in school I went to this seminar" and "I started to help the lecturer for shits and giggles" and then "I taught a little bit at the seminars", he would be grounding his reality to hers. He could then continue with "I started traveling with them for fun during the summer" and then "I put together my own seminar and
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112 conducted it for the first time with the help of my friend Papa. It was exciting and I was nervous", and on and on all the way to "Now I travel the world, people look up to me and I make mad cash ... can you believe it? I never would have thought I could do it if you said I'd be doing this 10 yrs ago", he would be grounding his reality to hers using my grounding method and his own original back-story material. Now, how does one answer the deep question, "Who am I?" A friend of mine told me, "You are what you repeatedly do." I do magic on a regular basis. I perform it almost every day, whether for a beautiful woman or any other other person. Style writes almost every day (and gets paid for it, making him a full-time professional). Tyler D. mostly focuses on conducting seminars and workshops. What do YOU do on a regular basis? Besides being a social butterfly that is. Remember, the pick-up arts exists to enrich your life, not define it. What stories do you already possess that convey who you have become today? SICKBOY > "Brilliant post! This structure makes cooler jobs seem cooler and more important, and even not cool jobs seem that much better. The underlying concept in this structure is that you're showing passion, direction, and goals you set for yourself. Having a purpose and a direction is one of the most attractive things to people. I've known about this for sometime, but never found a way to incorporate it. The best part about this is that it doesn't come off as qualifying yourself. I like this routine, I'm incorporating it immediatly." ([email protected]) GROUNDING REALITY is far reaching. It will change the way you M2F attract, F2M attract, and build COMFORT but will not alter their basic structure. It will also change they way you choose and structure routines, sequence them (which routines you will use and when), and convey to your target the way you handle challenges in your life.
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ADDED VALUE – BY STYLE I've been thinking about the game, and how much ASF has down to a science. Yet there's only ONE point in a sarge where the PUA has no control. Know what this is? It's the period right after you leave with her number. Whether you see her again here is entirely up to HER. There's no way to guarantee it, other than to have done a good sarge beforehand and, if you can get her on the phone, some phonegame. Thus, a lot of people here get flakes, and are frustrated by it. So I thought that there may be a piece MISSING from our model: And that's ADDED VALUE. In other words, why SHOULD she call you back? What's in it for HER? When you DHV (or demonstrate value), all you are doing is showing that you are more INTERESTING than all the other guys in the vicinity. However, that does not necessarily mean that there's anything useful or meaningful for her in what you do. For a SHB to call you back, you must offer the potential of ADDED VALUE to her life. So, to take a crass example, a SHB actress is going to call a producer back, because he can possibly help her with her career. A party promoter will get the calls back from a party girl. A rich guy with an awesome house and car will get a call back from a waitress who enjoys being in the lap of luxury. This doesn't mean that all girls will use you for what you got, it means that when a SHB has a lot of options of guys to call, she's going to call the one who offers ADDED VALUE to her life. Sometimes it may be enough that you're funny, that you're offering sex, that you connected with her, that you're the type of guy she's looking for at that particular period in her life, or that you know how to do that cool Cube thing. But for girls with lots of options, they need more incentive: What do you ADD to their life? How do you bring them closer to the LIFESTYLE that they want? I think some people who do well in the field actually do this by instinct. TD, for example, was up here, taking a video of Project Hollywood to tell HBs he lived there: that was a form of Added Value. I realize that this may border on AFC-ness, but this is how a lot of AFC who may be wealthy, famous, or in positions of power get women. If you can figure out how to replicate it, without having any of those attributes, than you're gold. It's a new idea I've just been toying with this week, but I'd like to start a discussion on it and come up with routines that convey this that could be inserted into our structure.
TYLER RESPONDS Yep. Most guys in the community are gaming girls that they think are 8s, 9s, or 10s. But they really aren't. I was the same when I'd never left my small town. The girls that I thought were 9s were really 7s by big city social scene standards. So in the community, we'll see many ideas thrown around about how if we convey enough attraction, the girl will go out with us. What they don't realize though -> attracting may have re-slotted you from the 98% of AFCs into the 2% of alpha-PUAs or whatever, but that 2% is still like FIFTY different cool alpha guys that are trying to get in her pants. So good job, but aside from the contingency that you sleep with her same night (which is fine sometimes, but is not totally consistent because of logistics and peer groups), how do you get her to return your calls? The only answers, fucking persistance with a smile (a whole other topic I could go on about for hours), and what we're talking about here which is throwing up BAIT - aka "Added Value". It's just not often discussed in the community, because by the time guys are getting super hotties, they leave the community. >When you DHV (or demonstrate >value), all you are doing is >showing that >you are more INTERESTING than >all the other guys in the >vicinity. This is fixed with the stuff I posted in the "How to play hard to get actually for real" post. Make her work her fucking ass off for it, by taking it away over and over and over, until she's so convinced about it that flaking is not an issue. This will also get her qualifying herself to you so that you'll feed her more cookies, and she'll be more consistent to her effort down the line. Also, venue changing and getting her the fuck out of the loud club environment will help, because she can't so readily categorize you as the "club guy" who she got wild around. You have to become a real person. btw, want to know a secret not a lot of guys know? The best way to avoid flakes is to allow buying temperature to taper off towards the end, and to get a logical and rational decision to meet up. Often, I don't get flakes just by opening, doing one DHV, and then getting her qualifying herself to me in desperate effort to keep the convo going (IOW, I have seriously crossed the social hook point, so I let her do ALL the work in the convo.. then I'll make plans, then maybe more game to get her all attracted and tonguedown, then I ease off again and let it taper off, re-establish plans, and eject). But when girls say that they'll meet up, and its while they're heavily "in state", they will compartmentalize it. It's the same as when you did a mind reading or palm reading in set, and you meet up the next day and you say "Did you really believe I was psychic?" (I don't use this stuff, but have tested it in the past, and many
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114 guys get great results with it). Many of the girls will say "You didn't read my mind. What are you talking about?" You're like "Umm, remember when I did x,y, and z?" and they'll say "Oh yeah.. whatever.. anyway" and dismiss it. That's because they compartmentalize whatever happens while they're in state, like it didn't happen. Nothing a girl does while she's in state counts to her. It's all bullshit and none of it is her fault. In fact, the only reason to put a girl in state is to allow yourself to escalate the situation that can benefit you. That's why Formhandle has posted in the past that disarming ASD is more important than establishing attraction. We establish attraction because we want the girl to venue change with us, and if she's not in state she'll say 'no'. But its the connection we build while she's in isolation with us that prevents the flakage, not the attraction itself. So just like if you pull out a digital camera, and the girl screams "I want one of those!", or if you say you'll adopt her and she says "Yes! I always wanted an older brother! Yes YES!", its all bullshit. The same goes for when you eject on a high note, and you ask her for plans. She freaks and says "YES YES, I want to go out FOR SURE!" and gives you her #. You call the next day and her vocal inflections are completely cold towards you, and you can hardly believe its the same girl. She flakes you, and you feel like screaming "Are you fucking kidding me?????" The reason why was that she was in state at the time that she agreed to the plans. It was like she was ROLEPLAYING that she wanted to make plans. It's no different than when you do the marriage C&F roleplaying, except she's roleplaying that she wants to go out with you. If you can calm her down and get her to agree to it logically (ie: via the added value stuff, or even if its just to meet up to hang) then your chances are better that she'll take the commitment more seriously. Of course some of the girls you do this to won't give you their #s, and they previously would have. But you're screening flakes this way. >you do. For a SHB to call you >back, you >must offer the potential of >ADDED VALUE to her life. Yep. Well not always. I've seen black guys who roll up on girls and say "Yo ma, you fine.. give me your digits.. I want to touch it.. blah blah". Pimpjuice on here can probably attest to this. He'll fuck the girls, ala Secret Society type shit. Unfortunately this is a fool's mate scenario and not consistent (I'm not referring to PJ, whose game I imagine is very good, but just in general). >So, to take a crass example, a >SHB actress is going to call a >producer >back, because he can possibly >help her with her career. A >party >promoter will get the calls >back from a party girl. A rich >guy with an >awesome house and car will get >a call back from a waitress >who enjoys >being in the lap of luxury. Yeah, this is just game on another level. Guys will say "That isn't real game", but what they don't get is that all game is just the same shit on various levels. Like, we see a girl who is hot. We want to hook up with her because our children have the strongest chances of survival due to her genes. Girls are the same. We come in alpha and commanding, and their limbic brain says "If I have this guys kid, it stands a strong chance of survival because his alpha genes are good, and even if they aren't his social status still offeres survival benefits". Notice that the second we deviate we lose attraction from them. Boom, your "true love connection" girlfriend dumps you for someone else. WTF?@!?! But this is no different than if our hot girlfriend gained 90 pounds around her belly and ass, and got zits all over her face from all the twinkies she ate. Girls will give you more IOIs and show more physical attraction if you elicit what added value they'll need. This is a different thing than a girl tooling on some rich loser. These girls will fuck your brains out, because the added value DOES turn them on. It's weird to see it. I rarely use this stuff actually, except for when I'm in NYC or LA. In those places though, I use it every set. >Sometimes it may be enough >that you're funny, that you're >offering >sex, that you connected with >her, that you're the type of >guy she's >looking for at that particular >period in her life, or that
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115 This last bit is the key. You run a bunch of sets, and they were all great. But the factor that got you the girl that you got from among all these sets was that that particular girl was at the time in her life where she was open to finding a guy. Because girls are bombarded with guys, they're often not even open to it except at particular times. >I realize that this may border >on AFC-ness, but this is how a >lot of >AFC who may be wealthy, >famous, or in positions of >power get women. If >you can figure out how to >replicate it, without having >any of those >attributes, than you're gold. The difference is that the AFC guys with added value get lots of dates and no sex. Lots of girls running around their house, and no sex. The PUA uses this stuff and gets laid non stop, and winds up not coughing up any of the stuff he used as bait. He doesn't need to spend a dime. He just offers the prospect that he might as a way to get isolation, and once he's done he has the *option* to do what he wants. >It's a new idea I've just been >toying with this week, but I'd >like to >start a discussion on it and >come up with routines that >convey this >that could be inserted into >our structure. > >Style > Mystery's "grounding" stuff is great. C&F her until she pries out of you what you do. Use the "I work at taco bell.. I'm the employee of the month.. This month, I'm chopping the lettuce at the back.. but next month, swear to god, if you were to come in, you'd see me making the burritos... up at the *front*!" Then she says "No way! Tell me! Tell me!" But instead of continuing and not telling her, you say "OK Nancy Drew, I work at x-job.." Then continue with the Mystery "Grounding" stuff he's about to email out in his next newsletter. Also, photo routine does this stuff also. Great post as usual, btw.
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PRERESEARCHED EV PRE-RESEARCHED EV (values elicitation): Rather than eliciting the values of a chick on the spot, I use my knowledge of chicks to feed them back stuff that MOST chicks would definetely be into. It’s PRE-RESEARCHED, rather than elicited right then and there. It’s my belief that EV is fake, and that guys who claim to use EV and SS their exclusive sarging method were probably fabricating or exaggerating their claims. This is not a direct accusation, but just something that I’ve experienced in the field. I’ve never seen it work the way that SS claimed it should, in the actual field. Toecutter has written alot on this, about how it can bore chicks to death. The kind of girls that I’m dealing with (early 20s little princesses) won’t talk to me long enough to run a PURE EV session on them. (although of course I can cherry-pick it through less direct means). Rather than EV, simply become massively attractive (become an ‘attractor’) through conveying a higher-value. I can use C&F, social proof, mentalism, story-telling, negs (which implicitly social proof you, since you must be with only the most beautiful women if you would neg a hottie, right? :).... ) Consequently, the woman BECOMES SIMILAR to a man who is willing to fuck a chick who he doesn’t like that much, out of sheer lust. She stops caring as much about the LEGITIMATE connection, and tries to fabricate one in her head in order to backwards rationalize her lust for you. However, I do use a FORM of EV, which is PRE-RESEARCHED. For this, I recall the knowledge from different sources: • • • •
“Memoirs of an ex-prom queen” Nancy Friday “My secret garden” Romance Novels (with my de-crypting of what the themes imply) various fem-lit (again, with my de-crypting of what the themes really mean, not what they claim they mean in their chicklogic heads)
Then I use the TRUISM idea that Kooper identified from my BF-Destroyer stuff, in order to FEED to the chick that I am her ideal man. I use TRUISMS to discuss relationships and social dynamics, in a way that chicks are SO INTO, that they deduce that I am their perfect guy. Combine this with the fact that I just teased the hell out of them C&F style, and conveyed higher value with social proof, and she is stunned. TRIUSMS: • • •
discuss male-insecurities that your friends have (JEALOUSY), how lame it is lame little bitch-fights in relationships where partners are insecure, and the lame unhealthy things that partners do to eachother out of insecurities discuss how the sex-life needs to be fostered the same way that the emotional life does, and how you need to keep it always fresh
etc etc (see Kooper’s post) I use alot of what Kooper wrote in his “truisms” post, as well as the stuff from my old-school “BF Destroyer Material” post (I & II), except just without the direct comparisons to her BF. I know what most chicks want, so I prefer to just feed it to them and take my chances. The downside is that I don’t get their “trance words” and stuff like that, but IME, this is totally unnecessary if you have a great early game, since the chicks are more than sufficiently attracted by that point.
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BUYING TEMPERATURE Focus on pushing girls into BUYING TEMPERATURE, recognizing it, and ESCALATING. -lockup -unlocked -buying temperature levels -escalation LOCKUP: Chick is unresponsive. Ask questions, she says "I don't know" or "no", or any blowoff answer. She holds tense shoulders, and if you say "high-5" or try to physically displace her in any way whatsoever, she says the words "I'm scared / you're scaring me / etc". This does NOT mean she is physically afraid. This is like a chick saying "not yet" when you go to kiss her too early in the night. She's JUST saying "I'm not at buying temperature yet". A chick who is locked up cannot even move or give a proper answer for a million dollars. She is locked up. Causes of lockup can be that she sees her friend hitting buying temperature for you too quickly, and she doesn't like it, or that you have conveyed too much eagerness too early. UNLOCKED: She is now OPEN to being gamed. Girls KNOW what you're doing when you run material. They may not know its pre-canned, but they know what it means when you tease them - its SEXUAL COMMUNICATION and they know what's up. If a chick is locked up, she isn't even OPEN to this sort of communication. Once unlocked, you can now begin gaming. Chicks become UNLOCKED when you don't telegraph interest (check the 25 points checklist), and therefore trust your intentions. Also, when you CONVEY PERSONALITY, and they therefore can FILL IN the canvas of your life, they increase trust. SIGNS of chick being unlocked - KINO TESTS. Hold out your palms upwards. If she puts her hands there, squeeze them. If she squeezes back, she's unlocked for sure. Likewise, tap her, if she taps back playfully, she's unlocked and sexually engaged probably. BUYING TEMPERATURE LEVELS: -enough for her to sit there while you game her -enough to show an IOI like a giggle -enough to show an IOI and kino you -enough to show alot of IOIs and ask you questions -enough for you to venue change her -enough for you to kino HER, and give her IOIs, and she still likes it (usually after qualification phase, because she now feels she EARNED your attention, rather than you just want to fuck her like every other guy on the planet) -enough for you to get physical with her -enough for you to fuck her As EACH Buying Temperature increase, the chick will usually SHIT TEST you, as a way of TRYING to throw herself OUT OF STATE. She shit tests by doing things that if you react too seriously, she'll get upset and therefore be thrown out of state. By passing shit tests, Buying Temperature is AMPLIFIED. This is like when Eddy (whitedragonPUA) posted about his HBRugby Lay report. She kept punching him all night. After he laid her, he asked her why. She said "I just thought you'd go away"... She knew she was hitting buying temperature, and didn't want to succumb to it so she shit tested by hitting him and hoped that he would back off and she would come down. Think back to when you tried to kiss a girl on a date, and she said "NOT YET". She doesn't mean NO. She ONLY means "I'm not at buying temperature yet.. Give me more gaming". Likewise, you try to venue change a girl, and she says "No. But I still want to talk to you". You keep gaming her, and a few minutes later you change venues. This was because you tried to ESCALATE PRIOR TO ATTAINING THE RIGHT LEVEL OF BUYING TEMPERATURE. There are many examples of chicks trying to throw themselves out of state when hitting buying temperature, but then by passing shit tests it is actually amplified: Chick feels herself getting horny. HB: "You're a player". PUA: "Yeah.. so what is it that turns you on so much about players anyway" (Response works firstly because you didn't disagree, so she can't get mad for you lying to her and break her own state, and secondly because you say something COCKY, which hits her emotionally, and therefore raises buying temperature) EG: Chick says "we shouldn't be doing this"... PUA responds "yeah, we shouldn't be doing this" but KEEPS going. In both cases, the chick feels her buying temperature increasing unusually rapidly (because of the PUA skillset), and tries to stop what's happening. When Buying Temperature is hit too quickly, it is called FRYING OUT HER CIRCUITS. This is like when chicks giggle uncontrollably and run away from you even though they like you, or when a chick is at a rock concert and starts screaming and crying when the rockstar comes out. She has hit buying temperature so fast, her circuits fry out and she freaks. "Routine Outcome Dependence" is a phenomena where you're too HOOKED on seeing chicks increasing buying temperature. EG: "Calling a chick a powerpuff girl will make her giggle"... So when a chick isn't giggling, you try to FORCE it by calling her a Powerpuff girl. EXCEPT, she KNOWS that not normal to say that to a chick whose all serious, so knows something is up (this is actually the 26th 'trying too hard to qualify' thing I guess - routine outcome dependence). The SAME goes for when she's all serious, and you try TOO HARD to seem happy and fun. She KNOWS that you're doing it to get with her, and it doesn't make sense. That does NOT mean state match. It just means MODERATE and don't appear PHONEY. Most Buying Temperature tools are to be used to AMP a state that you see building. She starts giggling a BIT, and you call her a powerpuff girl, and now she giggles a LOT. If she's not giggling AT ALL, then maybe it was the wrong time. She DETECTS that you were consciously TRYING to increase her buying
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118 temperature, and blows you off. Field experience is KING, nobody is above it. Field experience helps us to develop an INTUITION of WHERE and WHEN to use the particular material. TO INCREASE BUYING TEMPERATURE: (First, remember that there are PRECONDITIONS to a girl even being OPEN to you start to affect her this way. For a set of HB10s, theyoften may not even ALLOW themselves to be affected by your game, unless you have social proof or status somehow.. Likewise, even fora lesser HB7, if you are smelly and fat and gross, she won't be open to it, even if what you're doing is proper tight game) --Pump them through emotions rapidly.. (I personally use a detailedsystem of building routines that increase buying temperature.. basically, routines hit emotions through languaging or demonstration.. not hard.. this way I can build routines on the fly and not rely on canned material - infinite routines via proper understanding or structure and basic creativity) --THINK MAKEUP SEX: How good is makeup sex compared to normal sex? WHY? Because you've been pumped through so many emotions. This is what NORMAL sex is like for chicks - hence they like badboys, they like skydiving and sex in exciting places, they like makeup sex, etc etc.. Think Swingdancing routine, think Rollerblading routine, think puppydog routines, think jerk routines, think magic, think funny kino shit like hitting them and spinning them, think cocky stuff. It runs them through various emotions FAST. Story telling must be run in a way that is melodic, and talks fast enough to keep them captivated, but also runs them through emotions at the right progression without talking fast like you're trying too hard. Talking from the diaphragm in a fun, non-threatening way. NOT GOING SEXUAL right away in front of her friends (this is not for picking up lone girls, I'm talking public gatherings where I do my pickup.. this is also seduction in the WRONG VENUE, save it for ISOLATION.. don't be tacky and try to seduce her FULLY in PUBLIC). Remember, talking from the CHEST and not the THROAT is key here. You must OVERPOWER her reality with your tonality. This way of talking CUTS THROUGH the noise of the venue, without appearing like you're yelling. Look at how your dad talked to you when he was angry. That is BAD and causes lockup and no buying temperature increase. Look at guys who have FLUCTUATING and FUN tonality. But who are also ALPHA, by virtue of their PROJECTION (diaphragm). Just TALKING without asking them boring questions will unlock and increase buying temperature. C&F WORKS because you hit a sharp emotion "Oh that cocky guy, how could he say that!", but because its FUNNY at the same time as cocky, she doesn't get upset. KEY: Making them LAUGH disarms you increasing buying temperature, because the laughter disarms any discomfort. PUSH/PULL WORKS because as buying temperature increases, chicks have NATURAL tendency to throw themselves out of state. By gaming them, but pushing them AWAY, they have PERMISSION to ALLOW themselves to go deeper and deeper into state, because they don't worry that you'll exploit that and fuck them "after all, he did say hands off the merchandise.. I can feel this way, and he still won't fuck me".. This is why chicks LOVE gay guys. Because they feel they won't fuck them even if they hit buying temperature. So they can walk around all day at high buying temperature, and not worry that there will be consequences. FALSE DISQUALIFIERS AND FALSE TIME CONSTRAINTS WORK because the chick says "oh well he can't fuck me.. I can feel free to feel this".. Or "well he's about to leave, so I can feel free to feel this way" 25 POINTS OF NOT TELEGRAPHING INTEREST WORK because chicks don't worry that you'll fuck them while their buying temperature increases, since you're practically the first guy not to kino them and lean into them and show interest in them, even when they're hot and talking to you. Hence, they react "are you gay", because they can't GRASP that you're not returning their IOIs. They don't say "are you gay" to a 64 year old gay man. They say it to an attractive guy who is turning them on, but not telegraphing interest like EVERY other guy would when she's touching them and all that ("hands off the merchandise"), so they think "WTF, this guy's gay", and ask it all obnoxiously (obnoxious, because its none of their business, and they'd never ask that of a gay guy they're not attracted to). SUBTLETY: Not telegraphing interest unlocks and ALLOWS buying temperature to increase (because if you convey interest, she won't let herself since she knows you'll fuck her), but it doesn't necessarily increase buying temperature in and of itself. It simply grants PERMISSION to the chick to allow herself to indulge in going into state. As soon as you convey interest (eg: breach one of the 25 points), she may think "shit I can't feel like this", and cuts if off in a fit of anti-slut defense or whatever. SO: Buying temperature is increased by hitting many emotions rapidly, while being unlocked is more from not telegraphing interest (25 points). They are discreet, but run parallel. ONE EXCEPTION: By not telegraphing interest, that MAY sometimes increase buying temperature in and of itself, because the chick may ASSUME that its IMPLICIT social proof (ie: she's not good enough for you, because you lay hotter chicks). ESCALATION: At each WAYPOINT, we must ESCALATE. Buying temperature increases, they want COMFORT. They have COMFORT, they want SEXUAL ("phase shift", etc). When they hit buying temperature, they say "what's your name", etc, because they want to KNOW the guy who is getting them all into state. COMFORT BUILDERS (we no longer use RAPPORT, because rapport is one of MANY comfort builders.. Comfort building is the better term IMO, because we're trying to build COMFORT into her being at high buying temperature (so she doesn't freak out), rather than trying to get rapport, which connection, trust, commonality, divulging vulnerability, conveying personality and reverse EV, etc etc ALL serve to build comfort.. So RAPPORT is only ONE PART of comfort building): It takes roughly 4-7 hours to lay a chick from start to finish (credit Mystery for figuring this out - awesomely important, though I didn't realize the importance at the time). Comfort building means BABYSITTING for those hours, while she slowly heats up to be ready for sex - it takes that many hours for her to be ready, unless she's a party chick. Talking about stuff that DOES NOT pump them through too many sharp emotions rapidly (ie: DROP C&F, drop the crazy exciting
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119 shit), but still keeps them into the convo. Talk should convey who you are, so she can fill in the empty canvas and see the PICTURE of 'who is this guy I'm so attracted to' Attraction is THERE - she's at that buying temperature. Comfort building means building COMFORT into the state she's in, so she doesn't put a stop to it. include talk about how its NATURAL to feel this way for the right person.. Examples: Evolution Phase shift routine (she feels its EVOLUTIONARY that she feels like this, and backwards rationalizes), or the "I wasn't born with a book on what to do.. I just do what feels comfortable" (chicks KNOW the feeling that certain guys make them comfortable, and ASSUME that they feel this way for YOU" SIMULATING THAT *YOU* ARE HITTING BUYING TEMPERATURE: "What's your sign? OH MY GOD I LOVE LIBRAS.. Oh god, I can't talk to you.. you're trouble" (turn away, just like girls whose circuits fry out.. you're TRICKING them to think you're doing what THEY do, since chicks do this shit all the time because they hit buying temperature for retarded arbitrary shit like astrological signs and colognes and shit like that) FAKING LOCKUP AS PUNISHMENT in 'Punishment/Reward': If you're in comfort building, FAKE the symptoms of lockup. She'll understand what it means when she's like "TD, are you OK?" and I say "I dunno" just like a chick would when she's locked up. She'll grab you and start talking to try to unlock you. For example: HB "I like oranges" PUA "What? Apples. Apples are gross.." (pretends to lock himself up) HB "no no no, I said oranges! Oranges!" PUA "oh shit.. I love oranges.." (pretends to unlock) Congrats, now she's chasing you. FEAR OF LOSS TO MAINTAIN STATE WITHOUT INTENSE EMOTIONAL UPS AND DOWNS: Some guys complain that in rapport phase (now called "comfort building phase") the girls come out of state. By using punishment reward bit, she'll be chasing you. But ALSO, building in FEAR OF LOSS is effective. Think back to when a girl who you didn't like liked you. Maybe back in high school or some shit. But then you realized that she never liked you. You LOSE the validation you got. You start to obsess. You start to like her. Likewise, you have a state relationship. But she starts to get into another guy. OH SHIT, you're obsessing over her again. Or you make HER jealous, and now she's back into you (even when it was stale). This is the power of FEAR OF LOSS. Fear of loss REMINDS us of how attracted we are. In comfort building, encorporate fear of loss and punishment/reward, so that you don't suffer the phenomena of losing the chick at rapport phase (aka comfort building phase) because the interaction has lost its charge. KEYS: If you FAIL to ESCALATE, the pickup is often OVER. Example: 1) If you don't stop busting on her, she looses interest after a while, because you're being too emotionally intense for her. She needs COMFORT built into the high buying temperature you're generating. This is why you get guys who are good at opening at attracting, but have difficulty closing unless its a party-chick. This is the phenomena of "OVERGAMING" ***Think of pickup as FOREPLAY. You're ramping her up for something, the same way you would when you're giving her oral or fingering her. You're getting her PRIMED. If you stimulate a chick for too long before you fuck her, she gets BURNT OUT. When a guy puts a chick into a high buying temperature, and just keeps trying too hard to increase it beyond what it can even naturally go to, he has overgamed. Instead, build COMFORT into the state she's in. If you don't phase shift out of comfort, she gets bored or something (maybe you're beta or not interested) 3) Final escalation - ARGHHHH!! (I got burnt on this FIVE times, until I RECOGNIZED it) If you keep them SEXUAL but don't escalate to FUCK them, its too intense for too long, and they say "I'm tired" or "I feel sick". This is guaranteed. What happens is they get actually QUEASY from you keeping them sexual without fucking them for TOO LONG. If anyone else has had this happen, report back. Have you guys seen this before? Its JUST LIKE the "what's your name" IOI. It's something that CONSISTENTLY HAPPENS under specific circumstances. QUALIFYING AS A WAY OF 'TRUMPING' SOIs: When you qualify the chick to you, you've now conveyed to her that you're interested in her for reasons BEYOND her being a nice piece of ass. So BEFORE, the reason girls in public gatherings would snuff you off when you showed interest was because she thought "he only wants to fuck me". By making her chase, and then showing her WHY you've found yourself interested in her, she now thinks "well he showed me a signal of interest, but I EARNED it, so its because I'm a Libra and because he felt comfortable talking to me and because I told him I got an A+ in my psych100 class" (If you're interested to read more on this, you can read "pickup of HB10GF" post of mine in my archive, around late last spring, to review how I qualify chicks to me, to convince them they earned it) If I take a girl's phone#, I find I MUST qualify her prior to taking it. This is because the MERE ACT of phoning her can be a signal of interest. But if I've run my qualification phase, then its NO PROBLEM that I'm telegraphing some interest by phoning, since its WARRANTED. BY QUALIFYING THE GIRL, SHE CAN FEEL GOOD ABOUT BEING AT HIGH BUYING TEMPERATURE - SHE DOESN'T FEEL LIKE A SLUT AND SHE APPRECIATES IT. Have you guys ever teased a girl and got her back into your car. But you can't KEEP HER IN STATE INDEFINETELY. This is because she comes out of state if you stop running game on her (VERY hard in a moving car while you're trying to drive her back to your place). Instead, qualify her, so she'll WILLINGLY STAY IN STATE (aka buying temperature). She's gone into buying temperature, she's chased you, she's EARNED your attention. So now its *OK* that you're showing interest at this point. She'll be fine with it - of course. If you plan to give an SOI in your game, its at THIS POINT that it is less likely to blow you out. LOGISTICS: Working out logistics is important. 1) Chicks CONSTANTLY look at eachother while they're being pushed into buying temperature. Watch while you sarge, as they CONSTANTLY keep looking at one another to see what state they're in. If they give the "girl code" look that one is not in state, they
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120 ALL leave. Chicks NEED to feel that ALL their friends are feeling it TOO, so they don't get looked down on by their friends. This is why social proof is SO important in public gatherings. If ONE chick is not at the SAME buying temperature, then she SEES that her friend will fuck you if she leaves her alone, and she drags her away. You must NOT put a girl TOO FAR into buying temperature in front of her friends, unless you keep them together. BTW: One reason chicks like socially proofed guys is that they SEE that many other chicks have gone into buying temperature, so its "OK" to allow themselves to do so. Also, if you've read my routine where I get my wingman in on 2sets where his chick isn't liking him, I say "your friend is ignoring my friend.. I don't want him to be lonely.. I'm gonna go", and then YOUR chick will start saying to her locked up friend "no, he's cool.. I like him he's cool.. blah blah", and all of a sudden the previously locked up friend now OPENS UP to your wingman, and now BOTH chicks will fuck you. 2) 2sets are EASY to fclose when you have a competent wing. Why? Because they BOTH go into buying temperature, and since NEITHER will object, it just happens. 3) The smart PUA does as LITTLE as possible to hit the next buying temperature. This way he doesn't exhaust his material, and he doesn't risk the girl FRYING OUT HER CIRCUITS (rock concert style), or possibly her detecting what you're doing and cutting it off. Also, its better, because if she is ONLY at "venue change" buying temperature, then her friends will SENSE this and be less likely to object to you taking her away from them. AFTER you have her away from her friends, you can now pump her up all the way to full buying temperature, and now you've STRATEGICALLY played your game, so that you don't get cockblocked. 4) WHEN to venue change? Experiment with this - but IMO a great exercise to play with (I like it, anyway) is to practise ALWAYS going for venue change as soon as you get the feeling she'd say yes. That means just sticking out your arm for her to hook arms with you, and saying "I am DYING for -whateverthing-... let's go" (do it like she's your little sister, who you have to cart around). Test this for 2 weeks, and you'll be able to pull 75% of every girl you open for an instant date at least. But WHEN do we go for it IDEALLY? Well the GOAL is to have a proper comfort building LOCATION. That means that if its a superloud club, or a fast paced area, or a dark creepy area, go for the venue change ASAP, to somewhere more ideal. However, if its a good area to build comfort (not too loud or weird, and the friends are cool with the two of you getting to know eachother so they don't interrupt), then just keep it going in that area for as long as you need. Barring both of those (time issues), move it rapidly to QUALIFY phase, so that you can get a # or a meet plan, and then she'll be happy to meet up with you later (aka: TIME BRIDGE), where you can CONTINUE the pickup. For example, with a shooter girl, you rarely have the time to run a full pickup. The ONLY goal is to get to qualify phase as quickly as possible, and then bridge to continue the pickup later while she's not working. 5) When to kiss/phaseshift? For me, kissing is not an ATTRACT tactic, to get a girl thinking "god I want sex so bad, let's go!".. It's a COMFORT BUILDING tactic, and a QUALIFYING tactic. To avoid flakes, and improve odds of a girl wanting to go somewhere with you, we want comfort. This is why guys who smoke weed (not me) get girls home with them very easily "let's go smoke a joint". It's because the girls know they have commonality and a feeling of comfort back at the guys house (they both smoke, they both feel high).. Hell, they even have the reason for isolation (illegal to smoke in public.. let's go somewhere private). For guys who don't use drugs, we get the same kind of effect with comfort building. As for phase shifting, this is just ONE MORE type of way to build comfort and qualify her. You're showing her 1- you have PHYSICAL COMPATIBILITY (so she isn't worried "oh god, is the first kiss going to be good or not?"), and 2- she is physically good for you, so she earned it that way (you say "wow.. woooo... OOOOOOK that's enough")... IOW, you don't TONGUE HER DOWN and FINGER HER in the club. You just kiss or better yet (my preference), to kiss a BIT, but then hold back. Like you're alpha enough to kiss - you're not scared whatsoever. You're just not a TACKY CLUB MAKEOUT GUY of the night - you're for real. So phase shifting and kissing is fine under the right context. It's not hard to get hot and heavy with a girl in a public venue, but for me, I find that if I haven't qualified her and put in my time with her first, I become the "club guy" who she gets buyers remorse for. (If you have female friends, you'll hear them coming home from clubs with all that "I can't believe I did that" talk).
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STRATEGIC BUYING TEMPERATURE ESCALATION More esoteric advanceness..... It’s only natural that on an emotional level, we want to increase buying temperature as quickly as possible. Still, this isn’t always the best thing because it can break trust and it can seem unnatural. If I want to show off to guys, I’ll pump buying temperature as quickly as possible and go for fast makeouts and extractions. This is fun for me and is great to amuse myself, but it will often garner LMR down the line, and definetely is not ideal for getting a girlfriend. Instead, I’ll often stack high impact material with low impact stuff. Like I’ll actually deliberately allow the energy level of the set to decrease as much as possible and then recussitate it as I go along. So I’ll add in peices that are INTERESTING but not high impact in between all my main bits. For example, I’ll talk about how because I travelled for two years and didn’t get to watch the news, I didn’t realize how bad it was to watch that stuff until I came back and saw it and felt all fucked up over it. Anything interesting and not begging for rapport with them, but at the same time that isn’t going to have their buying temperature pumping through the roof. I’ll allow it to continue so long as attraction is there at least somewhat, and then as soon as I see it slipping I’ll turn back to tried and true hard hitting attract material. This is a form of fractionation. This takes discipline, because as guys’ we want as many IOIs as possible, and if we have an easy way of getting them then its tempting to just go for the juggular. But to play a solid game, we can stack in just interest material between the high impact stuff, to moderate the energy level of the set. It takes having a strong frame, and being obviously a very cool guy, so that the girls will be willing to listen to the dryer content. Another benefit is that you don’t get the deer-in-the-headlights effect, which means that the girls will be more likely to contribute to the conversation, which will make Qualification more realistic. Also it gets them working, which is useful to start the process of getting them chasing, which makes phase shifting easy. I’ll post FRs on this later. Point is, for guys who are having difficulty exploiting attraction, try deliberately playing with the various energy levels in set, and see how low you can go without losing the set. Challenge yourself to get it back up. This way, you’ll learn more about your limits, and you’ll learn more about social interaction.
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SWITCHING GEARS AND READING SIGNS I have CODIFIED street-walkups on moving targets, and can now PU moving targets with extremely HIGH HIGH consistency. I have worked it into 4 main areas: • • • •
C&F rapport don juan phase shift / gunwitch
Throughout the pickup, the chick will give you SIGNS as to what you NEED TO DO in order to fuck her. I can DEMONSTRATE this in field, and once you learn to RECOGNIZE it, it is almost EERY. AGAIN, THROUGHOUT THE PICKUP SHE WILL SAY THINGS TO HELP GUIDE YOU TO ALL THE WAY TO FUCKING HER. When she is testing or being bitchy or neutral, you use C&F. That engages her.. She shit tests to see how you will REACT (I am the shit test master and always pass using the material from my “dissecting shit testing measures”, therefore engaging her sexually). So shit testing is her way of conveying “I need to see if you are alpha/worthy/etc” Then, after you do this, she will start saying “what’s your name” (classic IOI).. you respond with “guess” a few times, but then right away start to GENUINELY FLUFF TALK HER so she feels she KNOWS you. You will NOTICE that once you’ve done the C&F, ALL OF A SUDDEN the fluff talk almost seems SEXUALLY CHARGED. This is because her asking about you is her way of telling you “I need to know you better for you to fuck me”.. Same as when she’s attracted but SAYS she needs to be friends first. Just fluff until you’re connecting (IOW NO MATERIAL WHATSOEVER - JUST PURE FLUFF TO GAIN RAPPORT), and then switch gears again. You’ll notice that this sort of fluff is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than LJBF fluff where you’re getting nowhere, because you WAITED for her signs that she NEEDS fluff talk to fuck you. You will C&F BUST ON HER until she starts trying to gain rapport with you. ONLY THEN DO YOU FLUFF. Then, you need to PHASE SHIFT. A great way to do this is like this: “Are you an intuitive person. Yeah.. OK.. Do you consider yourself intelligent.. yeah.. OK.. do you understand directions.. yeah.. OK.. Put your hands here (point your palms straight up)..” Then go into the RING FINGER ROUTINE, followed by ROMAN SOUL GAZING ROUTINE, followed by EVOLUTION PHASE SHIFT KISS CLOSE. You can use the CUBE or palmreading also, if you’re clever. You use the PATTERNING to INITIATE the PHASE SHIFT. So, IOW, there are really only THREE areas, not four. BUT, you USE the patterning to INITIATE the FULL NEUTRAL GUNWITCH STYLE phase shift. First gear: C&F Second gear: rapport Third gear: initiate phase shift by changing to emotional talk Fourth gear: FULL NEUTRAL convo, where you focus EXCLUSIVELY on eachothers body language and moving your faces closer to one another, TRIANGULAR GAZING, etc. First gear can take anywhere from 1 minute to around 35 minutes, for a girl that is INCREDIBLY testy. THE KEY TO PASSING THE SHIT TESTS, IS A FORMAT. HERE IT IS: • agree • creatively misinterpret as a GOOD THING -*possibly* misinterpret that although she said a good thing, she can’t have you TEST: “you’re short” REPLY: “yeah(AGREE).. so what is it about short guys that turns you on so much? (CREATIVELY MISINTERPRET HER AS SAYING SHE WAS COMPLIMENTING YOU)” Second gear just takes long enough for you to be utterly smiling at eachother, and feeling a strong connection, but MUST E-N-D before it goes LJBF. Third gear takes around 3 minutes usually, but basically just long enough to draw yourself in closer and closer. Fourth gear takes around 1-2 minutes, and you use TRIANGULAR GAZING and look at her lips, to constantly gauge if she’ll let you kiss her. You can also use fingers through hair for this. The MAIN thing to take from this post, is that when you engage her, she will do LITTLE THINGS to give you SIGNS on WHAT SHE NEEDS for you to fuck her. Bitchiness means C&F. All of a sudden asking you things about yourself for no reason means rapport. Once that is set, its ON YOU to switch gears and phase shift, by whatever method you like. With PARTY GIRLS, you will probably NOT NEED TO MAKE USE OF THIRD GEAR. Truly there are only THREE gears, but I wind up using the Don Juan bullshit to slip into FOURTH GEAR so often, that I’ve included it. If you would like to see SCIENTIFIC PROOF of girls SUBCONSIOUSLY trying to help you, try this EXPERIMENT. In the middle of a pickup, when she asks you something repond with “what will you do for me”.. if you are engaging her on a DEEP LEVEL, she will respond with “I’m not sure yet” in HYPNOTIC ZOMBIE LIKE FASHION, and proceed like you HAD NOT EVEN ASKED THAT. Like, she’ll say “I’m not sure yet” in the MIDDLE OF THE SENTENCE, and continue on talking like you HAD NOT ASKED. Fucking WEIRD SHIT, and I’ve seen it like 30 times now IN FIELD always the SAME THING if the PU is going well.
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123 This is UTTERLY FUCKED UP TO WATCH, and STILL when I see that ZOMBIE TRANCE response I get weirded out. Try it, this is a fucking WACK BREAKTHROUGH that I’ve realized, but can now get with chicks on walkups so consistently by recognizing this, it actually fucks my head up. Don’t ignore this post. I’m telling you guys, this shit is very accurate.
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SPASTIC LATE NIGHT RAMBLING PART 1 of 3 It was with CPowles in mind that I sat up the other night, composing this text. Composition time – four or five intense hours of frantic non-stop typing and brainstorming. CPowles speaks often of “the next level”, and has sought it out through exploration of ‘SP-Inner’ threads, and various other means. It’s odd, given my strong philosophical background and training, that most of my PU-notes are firmly rooted in very practical terms. What follows, however, is more abstract, melodramatic, and generally incomprehensible, in comparison to a typical post. I enjoy writing, as well as discussion PU theory, as a hobby. I could easily edit it to a high level of readability, as with any of my academic work (I generally write tired as fuck, and turn to the task of editing when I wakeup). But given that I have no legit incentive to do so, and that I prefer to see what headspace I was in when I review my notes later on down the line, I’ve left it as is. CPowles may very well disagree with what much of what I’ve written, which isn’t particularly my concern here. Through my exhausted haze, this is what spewed forth as what’s been the ‘next-level’ shit for ME in the past few months. An organization of my thoughts on what’s been working, for my own benefit, and for my later review. I’ve posted them here, for anyone interested in digging through them. If you decide to undertake the task of reading this, I’d recommend that you set aside an hour, and just let it soak in. Feel free to comment. The post takes for granted the reader’s familiarity with the following: Gunwitch Method – Gunwitch Qualifying, push pull – Swingcat Cocky/Funny Frames – Kooper You will make a ‘nice new GF’ - Zan Approach Invitations - Formhandle Dissecting shit testing measures – TD Setting traps – TD Boyfriend destroyer material, parts I & II – TD How to really PU, actually for real – TD Anamolies - TD
TylerDurden
PREAMBLE – PICKUP IN THE DEEPEST ABSTRACT. THE TRUE PUA. A few months ago, in chat with TokyoPUA, the term “PU lab” was thrown around. TPUA advised me that I should ANCHOUR the feeling that the WORLD is my pickup EXPERIMENT LAB, and that THAT was the key to getting GOOD. It was funny, because that was something that I’d done for a long time, but hadn’t really been able to devise such a clean way of articulating it. Of all the reactions that I get when meeting people from our internet chat group, the most common is an utter shock at how unhesitant I am to try ANYTHING that I think could be even moderately funny or useful. For me, trying something absolutely outrageous is EXCITING, not SCARY. They say “TD, you are fucking CRAZY”. WHY? Because I live in, and project, my OWN REALITY. I am INTERNALLY centered, not EXTERNALLY centered. Look at the PUA Mystery. The guy has been on the internet for years, but has barely absorbed one single damned thing that he didn’t invent himself. Of the few odd things from others that he DID absorb, he’s literally 100% CONVINCED that he made up HIMSELF. Certifiably DELUSIONAL. And YET, this guy is the absolute pickup MASTER. Does he piss people off with that attitude?? YES. But who gives a fuck??? While everyone else is moaning and groaning, he’s busy busting his load on the face the latest covergirl(s) of Penthouse Magazine, or whatever flavour of the week it is this time.. So what’s the KEY to seeing the pickup game CLEARLY??? Existing in YOUR reality, and not the reality of OTHERS. Only then can you see things CLEARLY – make adjustments, calibrate, innovate, experiment, etc etc etc… Think back to when the name TylerDurden FIRST appeared onto this internet chat board back in late August… People were all in a fuss, like “who the fuck IS this guy???” Threads were popping up left and right, like “how did you get this good???” FUNNY THING WAS, that I didn’t post ANYTHING that was ANY better than what OTHER people were posting. My posts were AVERAGE at best. There was NO indication or statements from me that I was good. But many people ASSUMED success, because of my utter DISREGARD to the consequences of what was being posted. Note this, as most people intuitively associate people who are INTERNALLY CENTERED with SUCCESS. When we’re fucking around on the internet, my homeboy EDDY and I post DUMB SHIT, like “WHITE DRAGON”, and “we are THE SHIT”, and ‘ARGHHHHH”, because we think its FUNNY to see the dumb-ass REACTIONS of other people living in OUR reality. It’s not something that we ARTICULATE, or CONSCIOUSLY even realize that we’re doing. But rather, a CONSEQUENCE of the MENTALITY that we take with us EVERYWHERE that we go. It is not intentional, but the consequence of an overall ATTITUDE. But why post my pickup notes onto the internet in such RAW form??? Why not adjust them in a way that will garner praise, like respected posters (Juggler, Formhandle, etc)??? It wouldn’t be hard. And everyone would approve. So why not, then??? Because for me, its FUNNY to see the REACTIONS. If all I got was “this is really great”, and none of the GOOD STUFF, then I would LOSE MOTIVATION. My ATTITUDE is carried over into my internet postings, the same way that it’s carried over into the REAL external world. When people post funny shit like “this is just so outrageously out of line”, and “I’m so disgusted”, and “I’m so outraged at your arrogance” onto the INTERNET, we think its FUNNY SHIT, because you are EXTERNALLY CENTERED and living in OUR REALITY, even
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125 through the INTERNET. While you are EMOTIONALLY BLOWN OVER, because you NEED TO GET YOUR REALITY BACK, we are UNAFFECTED. For a guy like Nerve1, for a recent example, that’s why he has to spend ALL DAY in discussions with Paps (a real life friend) about finding me (an internet text-projection on his computer monitor) and hurting me, and devoting his REAL LIFE time, sending some guy on the internet LENGTHY implied threat emails.. It’s not because I’m legitimately worth his TIME. Nor is “saving ASF”. It’s because UNTIL he does, he can NEVER get his fragile reality back. He is ENEMY CENTERED, and his existence is MAGGOT RIDDEN SHIT until he gets that EXTERNAL validation. And until he can let that go, and find himself internally, he is forever my BITCH. For that reason I DEDICATE this latest material - COCKY as ever so as to remain true to expected form - to my BIGGEST FAN of all time, NERVE1, who I can only HOPE will draw CONTROVERSY and ATTENTION to my posts with his grumblings, and thus provide me with some brief diversionary entertainment. Because to the PUA firmly planted in his own reality, the shit-talking cocky posts will seem FUNNY.. “That guy sure talks alot of shit.. What a joker.. He seems like a fucking CHARACTER.. I’d love to hookup with that guy and wing some shit.. see what he’s really got”.. They see if for what it is truly worth – JACKSHIT. Just some dudes clowning around…. While to the unsuccessful and frustrated PUA, the posts will seem “atrocious” and “arrogant”. They will become ANGERED and OUTRAGED at way that is REMINDS them of their own shortcomings, and their INABILITY to assert their OWN REALITY. The successful PUA has not the TIME nor ENERGY to do anything other than laugh and sift out anything useful, while the unsuccessful PUA has all too much time, to DWELL, and be REMINDED. The unsuccessful PUA is COMPULSIVELY COMPELLED to spend their limited TIME and ENERGY fighting a battle that exists only in their own mind –all over the internet. Such is also the case with Ray Gordon. Such people are like the lobbyists who get pissed off at EMINEM. They are not ABLE to see the HUMOUR in it, because their reality is so FRAGILE. And when Eminem comes back with “I am whatever you say I am” – adapting through escalating and enhancing the behaviour for which he’s criticized, the lobbyists are POWERLESS to put a stop to it. He is ULTIMATELY ATTRACTIVE to women as a result, because despite his very average looks, he is INCORRIGIBLY internally centered. And many of you will walk away having read this, INSPIRED, thinking that you can ACQUIRE or INTERNALIZE this reality-asserting internally-centered mentality into your essence.. However, this is both WRONG and IMPOSSIBLE. You cannot INTERNALIZE this attitude, because it’s something that is ALREADY WITHIN YOU. It’s something that is STIFLED and CONFINED by your PRIDE and your PERSONA. In order to get IN TOUCH with that which is WITHIN YOU ALREADY, you need to L-ET == G-O of your ARTIFICIAL PERSONA that you have CREATED, and get to the true ESSENCE of what you are. You cannot ACQUIRE this way of thinking. You can only LET GO of that which STIFLES it. WHY the name TYLERDURDEN?? Is it because I want to think that I’m Brad Pitt??? NO. When I saw the movie “Fight Club”, I was INSPIRED. I finally UNDERSTOOD. I “GOT IT”. I realized that you have to LET GO of those things that are CONFINING you, in order to assert your OWN reality. WATCH FIGHT CLUB, and UNDERSTAND the MESSAGE of the movie. See BEYOND its pop-culture flavour, and the cool shit that happens in the movie, and look at the UNDERLYING THEME. PUA COMMANDER ZAP was asked “what do you do when a chick gives you a sarcastic compliment?” He answered that you should STOP ANALYZING what it meant, and EXPLOIT the opener that the chick has provided. I read that, and I SNAPPED INSTANTLY. I UNDERSTOOD that I had to LET GO of my FALSE PRIDE, and finally come to a mental place where I could OBJECTIVELY analyze and understand the process of pickup. SO MANY TIMES I’d reacted to potentially sarcastic compliments by snubbing the chick, because I felt that I had to RETAIN my persona. What Commander Zap was suggesting, was to LET GO of that persona, and become TRULY disassociated with the social-layer that I’d created for myself. To IGNORE the possibility that the compliment was sarcastic, and to focus ONLY on the OBJECTIVE GOAL. What he suggested, was to become a TRUE PUA. To LET GO of that social-persona that MUDDIES your perception of what is GOING ON during a pickup, is to come as close to OMNISCIENCE as you get in the endeavour. It is the only way to GET GOOD, because it is the only state in which you will be FREE to focus critically on what is IMPORTANT during the pickup. To STOP BELIEVING that the RESULT of the pickup experiment is a reflection of YOU as a PERSON, and to REALIZE that it is simply the reflection of the EXPERIMENT. To believe that there is NO CORRELATION between your personal-worth, and your GAME. It is only THEN, that you can TRULY UNDERSTAND what is going on. ONLY THEN, can you actually SUCCUMB to the GENIUS that BURIED within you. When you get to that point, when you don’t feel the SLIGHTEST nerves during a pickup. Your brain REVELS in the PROCESS of EMPLOYING the massive WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE that you have acquired in your study of pickup. Your brain CYCLES the possible solution to every obstacle that you are faced with NO REGARD to the consequences that it will bear on your ARTIFICIAL PERSONA. Your brain REVELS in the ELECTRICITY of the PROCESS. If arousal occurs, its because its part of what you know WORKS, and that the projection of your sexual state is OBJECTIVELY what you KNOW will work to attract. The sex becomes nothing more than the VALIDATION of your excellence. A FRINGE BENEFIT, that is a PATHETIC SHADOW of the fact that your very act is CONFIRMING the TRUE CONNECTION that you have with your true CORE-SELF. And later, as you enjoy the sex with this new person, you give into the ANIMALISTIC LUST that is a NATURAL part of you as well. THAT is the ADDICTION that is pickup. The SATURATION of your conscious self, into your purest ESSENCE. Not FEEDING the fake PERSONA that you’ve created as a self-defense from the external world.
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126 The connection that is established, between yourself and your surroundings. The FEELING that you get, when you can undergo the process of pickup, and NOT CARE about the outcome of the EXPERIMENT. It REMINDS you of how far you’ve come in your personal development – and the feeling is LIBERATING, in a similar way to SKYDIVING, or any other LIFE CONFIRMING activity. The tactics and techniques are only there to help you FAKE IT UNTIL YOU MAKE IT. They MODEL and FAKE the sorts of things that the purely CHARISMATIC people would say NATURALLY. Because it is the ability to WALK AWAY from ANY chick, that is ULTIMATELY ATTRACTIVE. Tactics such as NEGS are meant to MODEL the individual who is master of their reality, because they CONVEY such characteristics. NEGS are “FAKE IT UNTIL YOU MAKE IT” tactics. This is why the PUA GUNWITCH becomes infuriated with the over-analysis that we ASFers participate in. He cannot GRASP why people would focus on something that is NOT natural. He makes the analogy of a vitamin pill not being a supplement for a REAL fruit, because the NATURAL properties are not carried over into the pill. He strives to get in touch with that NATURAL essence that we all have, by TAPPING our NATURAL sexual state, and projecting it. He advocates WILLPOWER. Get IN TOUCH with your natural essence, and those techniques that are necessary for pickup will happen naturally, on their own. Perhaps Gunwitch and I advocate the SAME. Perhaps we only differ in our UNDERSTANDINGS and APPROACH to the SAME eventual goal. We advocate different ROUTES to the same DESTINATION. He advocates WILLPOWER. I advocate learning to fake success with techniques, and getting experience under your belt, until you can NATURALLY do what needs to be done WITHOUT them. This is the UNDERLYING MESSAGE that TokyoPUA endeavours to SUM UP so succinctly when he tells us to ANCHOUR the idea that the world is our PICKUP LABORATORY. CELEBRATE YOUR REALITY. MODEL those people who are EXAMPLES. Look at EDDY. Look at MYSTERY. Look at TWENTYSIX. When EDDY posts “ARGHHHHH”, WHY is it FUNNY to him??? When MYSTERY peacocks himself to the point of SHEER OUTRAGEOUSNESS, WHAT is the purpose??? WHAT does such EXTREME peacocking CONVEY??? When TWENTYSIX puts out a site called www.extramask.com, WHAT is the humour in it for him??? LOOK at the site. What is it about that site that is FUNNY??? These are the MANIFESTATIONS of people who ASSERT their OWN REALITY. www.extramask.com is Twentysix’ CELEBRATION of his OWN REALITY. It is FUNNY, because as you delve deeper into the site, you journey DEEPER and DEEPER into a reality NOT YOUR OWN. For people whose reality is easily PLUCKED from them, they will be APPALED by the site. They will condemn it as attention-getting TRASH, and SNEER at it. But for people who are FIRMLY in their OWN reality, they will REVEL in the JOURNEY that Twentysix’ pure unmediated INSANITY brings them on. As you read more and more, and listen, and watch, you become SATURATED in Twentysix’s BIZARRE REALITY. It isn’t the weird humour that is the draw of the site. It’s the JOURNEY that it takes you on. The confrontation of the sheer ABSURDITY. For those SECURE in their own reality, there is no FEAR that they won’t be able to find their way back to their own place. They can APPRECIATE the site. But for those people whose minds are so easily TAMPERED with, whose realities are so easily OVERTAKEN, the site is condemned as TRASH. Twentysix KNOWS that people will react a certain way. Eddy KNOWS that people will wonder WTF he’s doing when he says ARGHHHH non-stop. Mystery KNOWS that people will react in bizarre ways when he peacocks. These are CELEBRATIONS of their REALITY. Their UTTER DISREGARD of the fucked up reactions, the judgements, and the social consequences, is their CONSTANT REMINDER of their own ASSERTION that they alone EXIST. They EMBRACE the ABSURDITY of social constraints, and TRANSCEND them. Because every time that an external agent reacts negatively to their actions, and they are reminded that they DO NOT CARE, they experience the RUSH of the CONFIRMATION that they TRANSCEND all social constraints. They are thus both FEARED and ADMIRED - CRITICIZED and APPLAUDED. RESEARCH and DISCOVER great men like the late PIERRE TRUDEAU and WINSTON CHURCHILL and John F Kennedy. See how they were universally FEARED and ADMIRED, even by those who hold absolute disdain towards their actual policies and ideas. How did women react to Pierre Trudeau??? Look at his pictures, and imagine him as SHY and INTROVERTED. Would he still BE Pierre Trudeau??? Would he still be one of the historically greatest PUAs that ever lived??? MORE IMPORTANTLY, would he FOCUS on pickup techniques, or focus on HIS OWN REALITY, and have women as one of the FRINGE BENEFITS??? This is what is ULTIMATELY SEDUCTIVE to ALL people, and of particular interest in this forum – to WOMEN. This is WHY ASF has ceased focusing on developing SS-based approaches. Because we strive to ATTRACT women with the INTENSITY of the JOURNEY that we give her, into OUR reality. And during that journey, she becomes so ATTRACTED, that she CRAVES to CONNECT with the reality that you project upon her. She may begin by asking “what’s your name?”, and does EVERYTHING in her power to FIND OUT if she can CONNECT. But we don’t give it away so EASILY. We make her WORK. And it UNRAVELS in front of her, as she is lead to believe that she has EARNED it. And that which she has so strenuously EARNED, she does NOT FOREGO. I watch, in amazement, as Mystery enters the room. The crowd’s attention shifts. People are alarmed.. intrigued.. fascinated.. angered.... They can NOT snub him as he approaches, because they must FIND OUT -----> WHO – IS – THIS – GUY - ??? -OK, one of the most COMMON experiences that someone who is undertaking the goal of becoming a PUA will face, is the harsh realization of just HOW FAR you are of your actual GOAL.
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127 THE PUA TRANSITION PROCESS: • learning to give intense EC to a chick • learning to initiate a chat • learning to initiate a chat without pissing your pants • learning to ask for a # • realizing that those are flakes, and pinpointing why • learning to correct that, through projecting value onto yourself • learning to EXPLOIT the interest that you generate by structuring future interactions • learning to phase shift, and close during the first interaction, or during the ‘get-together’ • learning to disarm LMR You read ASF. You start giving chicks a bunch of eye-contact. You learn to chat girls for 2 seconds. You learn to chat girls for 5-10 minutes. You learn to ask them for their #. You get it. You’re ESTATIC. But then you realize that these #s are FLAKES. DAMN, that part SUCKS. I fucking HATED that shit. I remember the first girl I got a # from, I got one-itis for SO FUCKING BAD that my heart pounded through my chest when I called her. I remember sitting in my backyard of my country house, staring over the open field, thinking how I should just RELAX, and that no matter what happened, I’d still be me, and I’d still have my whole life ahead of me, etc etc etc.. She called me back a week later and told me that she had a boyfriend, but would still go out with me.. WTF??? I just KNEW that this chick had probably chatted ALL WEEK to her friends about how she should get out of this fishy ‘get-together’ that she’d agreed to. Here I thought that this chick was a potential FUTURE WIFE, and all that she thought of me was like basically what I thought of fat chicks who had tried to hover around me in the past. HOW could she not FEEL the CONNECTION that we had???? The thing was, that I had CREATED this connection in my own MIND. Despite having found ASF, I still had retained the BELIEF that there was a girl out there for me, and that I wouldn’t need to become a full-blown PUA in order to find her. AFTER ALL, I still was LIGHT YEARS ahead of most guys, just for having FOUND and attained a rough UNDERSTANDING of ASF concepts. I wouldn’t need to become an ASF fanatic just to find the right chick for me, and I could settle and focus on other things. So still, I continued getting #s which I convinced myself were SURELY the girls that I could just SETTLE with, and therefore assumed MAJOR value on them. I tried stuff like taking a shit while phoning, which is proven to naturally relax you. I’d do shit like phoning while I was DRIVING, so I’d have to focus on something else while I called.. damn, that shit was a fucking DRAMA FEST.. EVERY TIME that I’d get a #, I’d tell myself “OK, all I need is for this ONE chick to go OK, and I can KEEP her and MARRY her.. then I never have to go through this again..”.. My relationship management skills were always very strong in the past, because I’d read “The Rules”, and “The Art of Seduction”.. So I knew that if I could just get a decent chick, that I COULD keep her, since my past relationship had gone very well. So I’d put SO MUCH VALUE on the outcome of a #, which always would turn out to be FLAKE. DAMN, that shit sucked.. All that I could think of was how here I had this HUGE EMOTIONAL CONNECTION to whatever chick I’d #closed, and HOW could she not feel it too??? How the FUCK could this chick not even care enough about me to ever SEE me again??? What the fuck was wrong with ME??? I couldn’t even get a quality #close from a chick WORSE looking than me!! Then I came to the REALIZATION. I realized that I am UGLY. NOT good looking. It all made perfect sense. See, in the past, I hadn’t DONE approaches. I could say shit like “any time that I wanted a chick, I could get her.. I just don’t want those slutty chicks that are always ‘hooking-up’…” So I could always RATIONALIZE that if I did approaches, OBVIOUSLY they’d go just like in the Hollywood movies, and I’d totally pick the chick up, since I’d only try to pick up a chick that was “worth my time”. But NOW, I’d actually DONE approaches, and they weren’t WORKING. Chicks who were UGLY didn’t want to go out with me, which was clear indication that I must be even UGLIER than the ugly chicks. To add insult to injury, I started realizing that my HAIR is falling out. You can’t see it now whatsoever, unless you look really carefully under the right lighting. But YEP, it IS happening. It will be a few more years yet, but I WILL go bald. To THIS DAY, the FIRST thing that I do every morning when I wake up, is take a mirror up to my head and look in morbid fascination to see if my hair is falling out. It is a CONSTANT REMINDER that I am growing old, and that I WILL DIE some day. It is BEYOND my control. So that raised the question: If I can’t meet girls NOW, what the FUCK am I going to do in a few years when my hair line is FALLEN OUT??????????? No, actually wait.. sorry, scratch that.. When my hair has MIGRATED to my BACK. It’s a TOUGH to acknowledge that you’re not good-looking. Before you’d ever tried PU, you could rationalize it through your past GFs and shit like that. But now, it’s so IN YOUR FACE that you’re not desirable to women. To be honest, even after all the success I had in the past year, I’m STILL UTTERLY SHOCKED that HB9s are interested I me now. When I’m getting with a new chick, I’m thinking “WTF is this chick THINKING????? Is she RETARDED?????” But the thing is, to just GO WITH IT. APPRECIATE that you’re a GUY, who is judged by his ATTITUDE and ACCOMPLISHMENTS, and not a chick who can NEVER escape her looks. I want to say ONCE and FOR ALL, that LOOKS DO NOT MATTER ONE FUCKING BIT when it comes to pickup. I say this more to re-affirm it to myself, than for others. But what I’m saying is the REAL SHIT. (we’re assuming that grooming/style is a given here, though, bros) So WHY was this REALLY happening?? Because I was focusing on a NATURAL, LOW RISK way of #closing. My main goal wasn’t to PROJECT VALUE onto myself, so that she’d want to see me again.. Instead, it was to ask for the # in a way that wasn’t EMBARRESSING.. My goal was to WORK THE #CLOSE INTO THE CONVERSATION NATURALLY, instead of PROJECTING VALUE ONTO MYSELF. THIS is the FLAW with the David DeAngelo PICKUP methods from his CDs. Do NOT get me wrong on this – the David DeAngelo CDs are SO FUCKING AWESOME for alot of things. His stuff on certain non-needy / non-wuss attitudes were turning points not only in my GAME, but in my SOCIAL SKILLS. But the PROBLEM with the David DeAngelo CD actual pickup methods (I’m strictly address the PICKUP METHODS - 2 minute email close, IM sarging, etc – and not the other content of the CDs), is that they ASSUME that you
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128 don’t have the SKILLS to PROJECT VALUE onto yourself, in any given interaction with a chick. So he comes up with ways to CIRCUMVENT this deficiency, which I suppose are actually effective for newbies. See, David D is basically trying to put out a product that will get guys LAID. Not necessarily a product to turn them into pickup ARTISTS, but a product that will yield the result of a SEX LIFE for loser guys. And it’s definitely an EFFECTIVE product in those terms. It also could at least get you STARTED on the road to becoming a PUA, since you’d get some experience under your belt. But it’s DESIGNED for guys who can’t CONVEY value to a chick, during the course of a PICKUP. His LOGIC is that MOST chicks will give away an EMAIL address to most guys – so THERFORE, given that most guys can’t CALM THEIR NERVES and THINK FAST ENOUGH to convey value in the FIRST interaction, that they can do it STATEGICALLY, and under LESS PRESSURE, over a few email interactions. The chick can SLOWLY get to know you over the COMPUTER, and feel more comfortable, since you don’t have METHODS of doing that in the first interaction anyway. Since she can’t see you SWEATING, and you have the TIME and CALMNESS to take the right steps, you are able to win her over before you see her again. The same basically goes for IM SARGING, which he recommends. So the thing is, if you want to become not only a guy who can get laid, but also a PICKUP ARTIST, then you need to find STRATEGIES of CONVEYING VALUE to a chick during the PICKUP. If you want to be a PUA, there is usually NOTHING that you can’t usually do during the INITIAL interaction, that you couldn’t do over weeks of emails. One GREAT way to do this was discussed in my “How to sarge, actually for real” post – where I discuss projecting value right from the opener, through the ball-busting, rapport, and kiss-close. See, when you project value in your OPENER, you are OFF ON THE RIGHT PATH. Then, when you BUST HER BALLS with PUSH/PULL (you’re my new GF... actually NO you aren’t.. wait, yes you are.. let’s get married.. no wait, we can’t), you project the value of being confident/funny/exciting/daring/flirtatious.. So ONLY THEN will she want to get to know you and start TRYING to get rapport with YOU. PART 2 of 3 IMPORTANT CONCEPT – NOT TO BE IGNORED – SO FUCKING IMPORTANT: Please try to follow me here, and re-read if necessary. The PROBLEM with opening with a QUESTION like “where is that shirt from”, or a “hi” (which basically is another way of saying “I’d like to chat”), is that it is the EQUIVALENT of when you are following the SEQUENCE that I recommended, and she says “what’s your name?”.. A reminder for those who don’t remember – in my earlier post I commented that if you open well, and do C&F for a while, you KNOW that she is at her BOILING POINT (IOW, she is attracted now) when she says “what’s your name”, or something to that effect, because that is HER WAY of telling you “I am attracted now, so please help me to get to know you so that we can fuck”. So when YOU open with a question about HER, or a “hi”, that is TELLING HER the SAME THING as when she asks you your name (which ANY pickup artist who is constantly IN THE FIELD will tell you, is a major sign that she is into you). Basically, when you open with a question about HER, or a “hi”, you are GIVING AWAY THE MILK FOR FREE. You are telling her “I AM SOMEBODY WHO LIKES YOU, BEFORE I EVEN CHATTED YOU”. Now on an AI (approach invitation), this is FINE, because you have projected value through your LOOKS or PRESENCE. But on a COLD APPROACH this is sometimes FATAL. The REASON that alot of guys recommend this kind of approach, is that they are NOT laying chicks, and base their ADVICE only on what structured good INTERACTIONS, and not LAYS. Since they really don’t know what CONSISTENTLY leads to SEX, they base their results on what lead to good CONVERSATIONS where the chicks don’t put up walls. Because “hi”, or an interested question typically WILL structure a good INTERACTION, they report back that it opens WELL. IN REALITY, although many lays will come from ANY interaction with a chick where you come off confidant, it is still not the BEST way to consistently lay chicks. There are BETTER ways.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN OPINION OPENER AND A “WHERE DID YOU GET THAT” OPENER: An opener like the DAVID BOWIE OPENER or BLONDE HAIR OPENER is very DIFFERENT than “what does that shirt mean?”, or “how are you”. NO. They are 180 degrees DIFFERENT.
WHY??? They are both QUESTIONS right???
Please FOLLOW ME HERE. The KEY to a PICKUP is **SUCKING THE GIRL INTO YOUR REALITY**. When you ask a question about DAVID BOWIE, it’s something that YOU want to know. When you ask about HER, you are IMMEDIATELY CAPITULATING, and not making her EARN your attention. This can WORK on CERTAIN chicks of course. But it is NOT a good PICKUP STRATEGY for a pickup ARTIST. Again, asking her about anything that detracts from YOUR REALITY is BAD. So STICK to the STRUCTURE of the openers that I discussed in the “how to sarge for real” post. EXAMINE the STRUCTURE of those openers, and make up NEW ONES whenever you’re bored with the ones suggested.
PRODDING HER TO SHIT TEST YOU - **INDUCING** HER SHIT TESTING MECHANISM: The BEST and most RELIABLE way to get laid that I personally know of is to INDUCE the chick to shit test you. This is the NEXT STEP of the PU, after the opener, when PU’ing girls with certain personality types (basically, most hotties.. the exception are girls who are very down to earth and secure, don’t believe in stupid shit like ESP, etc etc.. those girls are the
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129 HARDEST to PU, because they KNOW the deal and don’t succumb to emotions to easily.. for them, the best strategy is to use this SAME STUFF, but at the same time to be very ATTUNED to her and MODERATE) OK, this may sound strange, but there is no bigger KISS OF DEATH in the PU than when the chick is being NICE to you. For example, if you see a chick who you knew in high school, the BEST way to pick her up is to NOT BRING UP that you already know her. BETTER, is to just PU her like NORMAL. Worse case scenario, YOU are left in the power position, since she remembered YOU. But if you bring it up, then she instantly OPENS up to you, and is therefore DISENGAGED sexually. This is not necessarily a RULE, but a sweeping generalization that I have seen in field many times (chick likes me, convo is sexually charged, I bring up that I know her, convo shifts to “how have you been” and chemistry falls flat). I was hanging out with Mystery’s ex-girlfriend the other night. This 5’11 megabomb. She was laughing at how guys will chat her for a few hours, THINKING that they’re getting somewhere, when really she’s just in the mood to CHAT. The problem – they haven’t ENGAGED her LIMBIC BRAIN, and she isn’t SHIT TESTING, to see if they are WORTHY. For me, the answer is to go PUSH PULL, ASAP. That means QUALIFYING, TEASING, and JOKING about being together, and broken up, again and again. Learn to be the MASTER of PUSH-PULL. I am a master of it now, and I FULLY CREDIT the innovative C&F masters SWINGCAT, KOOPER, BADBOY, ZAN, STYLE, DAVID D, and many others I picked up great lines and attitudes from, for helping me to get where I am with it. Here’s an EXAMPLE of a STRUCTURE, which should of course have OTHER STUFF worked into it (IOW, don’t follow this to the letter, but use it as a skeleton): Roll up on her, make funny faces, smile and hit her, and wrap your arm around her (kino-opener, described many times in “operation mayhem” posts).. “you are CUTE.. I think that you’ll make a NICE new GIRLFRIEND.. hahah, hey WAIT.. I need a girl who can cook.. you can’t?? OK, we’re broken up.. actually wait, you DO smell good.. very alluring.. actually WAIT!! do you eat SOAP??? oh man, we are BROKEN UP.. no no, definitely broken up.. you are BAD.. hahaha, for sure!!.. are you adventurous?? cause I can’t even hang with you unless you’re adventurous.. mmm,. that does sound adventurous.. alright we can hang, but I can’t take you to my COOL places because you might just be PG-13 adventurous, not R-rated adventurous.. really, you did X-ACTIVITY?? hmm.. OK maybe you’re cool.. oh man, imagine if we ran away and did X-ADVENTURE (make up a 1-2 minute Bonnie & Clyde type adventure) together.. and we could STEAL this X-STUFF (whatever is in front of you) and SELL IT.. No?? OK I’m taking THIS then! (grab HER shit, and she’ll WRESTLE you for it).. haha, OK fine, I won’t do that.. I have a better plan.. I need a RICH girl.. are YOU?? no?? do you have cable though?? SWEET, I can watch daytime SOAPS.. NICE!! OOOOOH MAN, we are getting MARRIED RIGHT NOW.. Will you MARRY ME??? OMG I am SO SERIOUS, we’ll get married RIGHT NOW.. (then have a person in the room pretend to MARRY the two of you, and you exchange items together like rings or something, and kiss AT LEAST on the cheek)... OK AWESOME, now that we’re married I can DIVORCE you and live in your house and watch DAYTIME TV.. What this does is ENGAGES her sexually, and then DISENGAGES her sexually, over and over and over. It’s not like if you say “you’re my new girlfriend.. let’s make plans to go out.. let’s make plans to be together.. let’s be together”, which would be PULL, PULL, PULL, PULL. She would RESIST that strategy 9 times out of 10. By doing PUSH – PULL, her limbic brain is ENGAGED, but then DISENGAGED before she has a chance to RESIST. The result will be like a FISH, who you reel in, let fight and let out slack, reel in more, let fight more, reel in more, etc etc etc etc.. It gets her HOT, but the PUSH disarms her RESISTANCE, before you proceed to PULL again. KEEP DOING THIS AS LONG AS NECESSARY until she SHIT TESTS you. Look up the “dissecting shit test passing measures” post, to INTERNALIZE the STRUCTURE of passing a shit test in DETAIL. The short of it is: 1) AGREE to the shit test 2) CREATIVELY MISINTERPRET the shit test as her saying she WANTS YOU 2a) In some situations, tell her that despite that, she still cannot have you unless she meets x-qualification HER: “you’re a player” YOU: “yeah... so what is it about players that turns you on so much” **OR** 1) AGREE to the shit test 2) Use CALLBACK humour to misinterpret your actions in a funny way HER: “do you plan this stuff?” YOU: “yeah.. I even plan to go out and meet little POWERPUFF girls (or whatever NEG you used earlier.. CALLBACK the neg you used earlier) The POINT of this, is that you KEEP JOKING that you are together – apart –together – apart, until you ENGAGE her LIMBIC BRAIN, which she will REACT by SHIT TESTING YOU. Since you INTERNALIZE how to PASS the shit tests techniques, and you pass with PERFECT SCORE, she will become aroused very quickly, and attempt to GET RAPPORT with you. You will know that she is at her BOILING point when she gives you a SIGN. A SIGN is like when she says “what’s your name?”, or “what do you do?”, or “where do you come from?” She is LEANING IN, and showing strong interest… Wide eyes, open body language, facing you, etc etc etc.. So that is my personal favourite way to PROJECT VALUE – being COCKY PLAYFUL. However, this is not the ONLY WAY to project value. A second way would to be learn STRONG SS/Patterning skills, and lead her imagination to all sorts of wild and arousing places. Eliciting past sexual excitement and pushing her through those states. She anchours those feelings to YOU. Personally I don’t think it’s overly effective for the younger party girls that I deal with, but it IS a feasible plan. Apparently a good way with Asian girls (as reported by TPUA, Maniac_High, Formhandle, and other skilled guys) A third way is to learn magic/mentalism/gimmicks/routines/stories, that INTRIGUE and FASCINATE the chick. Basically, this is using PERSONALITY CONVEYANCE. You could also just have a great sense of humour, and be good at conveying that in front of chicks.
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130 A fourth way is to use the above stuff (or ANYTHING) to get SOCIAL PROOF, and impress her with the fact that you are the CENTRE OF ATTENTION, and that you are UNIMPRESSED with her. You DEMONSTRATE that with NEUTRAL comments that you’d make to ANYONE, and that show your disregard your target’s beauty, like NEGS. Or by just ENJOYING yourself at the venue, for everyone else to see that you’re aren’t trying too hard. That makes you a CHALLENGE, and you therefore present value THAT WAY. A fifth way is just to have AMAZING RAPPORT. SOME guys can PU using JUST rapport building skills, although I have yet to MEET any that can do it CONSISTENTLY I’m still sure that there is somewhere out there (Juggler???). Point is though, that just being both an obviously SEXUAL MAN, and being able to get the girl to VALUE the rapport/friendship, can be enough to get chicks to sleep with you, if you do it in a way where she KNOWS that sex is part of the package to continuing her involvement with you. This can be done MRSEX4UNYC method, by “getting under her hood, and finding out how her engine works”, etc etc.. A sixth way is to convey ULTIMATE SEXUALITY, through Gunwitch style SEXUAL STATE PROJECTION. Read and INTERNALIZE the GUNWITCH METHOD, and you can sometimes just roll up on chicks with NEUTRAL TALK, and through just seeming so damned SEXUAL, she will find you “indescribably appealing”.. She won’t know WHY, but for some reason you just really turn her on. She feels this “unexplainable explosive chemistry”. A seventh way is to PEACOCK, which conveys that you are MYSTERIOUS, and OUTRAGEOUS. You are DIFFERENT. Peacocking is the ULTIMATLY FAST way to attract women of the HIGHEST CALIBRE, because you are INSTANTLY the guy that she’s been waiting for. You just need the ATTITUDE to back it up. YOU have to wear the CLOTHES. The CLOTHES can’t wear YOU. On some days when I peacock, I have the 9.5 chicks FLOCKING me wherever I go, because they are SICK of GENERIC guys, and think that you might be JUST THE GUY she’s waited for. To peacock, you can’t just dress REALLY COOL. You have to dress OUT-FUCKING-RAGEOUS. You have to have shit people have never even SEEN in their ENTIRE LIVES. The stuff you are wearing has to look RIDICULOUSLY OUTRAGEOUS, but your attitude MAKES it cool. If you’re peacocked properly, there should be people pulling you over for PHOTOS, and the FIRST thing that everyone should say to you is “that is SOOO cool”.. You know how strippers hear the SAME THING from EVERYONE??? “What do your parents think” etc etc.. You know how a writer always hears “x was so amazing” etc etc??? This is because they give a MIND BENDING IMPRESSION, so people’s STATES are instantly ALTERED in their presence. If you met your HERO right now, could you act NORMAL around him/her?? Probably not. You’d say something generic, like “I loved your last work”, because you couldn’t think of anything better to say, out of mental paralysis. That is the effect that PEACOCKING is intended to have. It ELICITS EMOTIONAL STATES from your targets, INSTANTLY. Look at celebs. Their clothes are like CARTOON CHARACTERS. You can’t even FIND these clothes. They are CUSTOM. They are FANTASY FIGURES, and when they are in public, the entire room SHIFTS attention to THEM. Turn YOURSELF into one of these figures, through peacocking, and you present VALUE to the chick. My FAVOURITE part about peacocking is that chicks will come up to you and say “that outfit is soooo awesome”, to which you can respond with “hmm.. thanks... sooo, you ready to get out of here?” (credit Craig) and get her LAUGHING.. then you say “your clothes are kind generic.. how do I know that I can hang with you?? what do you have going for you?? are you adventurous??” and start SWINGCAT-style qualifying, and run the push-pull routine that I posted above.. An EIGHTH way is to be DIRECT. I DISAGREE with this method and do NOT use it 99% of the time. I don’t use it myself that much, but it DOES work sometimes. HOWEVER, for OLDER WOMEN being direct is VERY value-conveying, because it shows that you are ALPHA and go for what you WANT. They are finally mature enough to appreciate you being GENUINE. Again, I DISLIKE this method, but it WORKS on CERTAIN chicks. “I just wanted to tell you, that you have an incredible energy”, is the kind of crap that is useful here. “You look like someone I’d like to meet” (credit TokyoPUA), is a good one for being direct. I DO use DIRECT approaches in cases of STRONG APPROACH INVITATION, and the TPUA line is a good one for that situation. Typically, older chicks (like late 20s and up) will APPRECIATE a man who isn’t “playing games” and is GENUINE in his intentions. Since he is being DIRECT, it is IMPLICIT that he has had past success, and it social proofs him implicitly. Thus conveying value. STILL, this puts her in the DRIVERS seat in some ways, so you have to FRAME IT PROPERLY. Do it in a way that STILL shows that you are NOT going to tolerate ANY bullshit, and although you find her SEXUAL, she still needs to convey value HERSELF. ALL OF THESE THINGS PROJECT VALUE. Personally, I think a sarge is going BEST when I’m getting SHIT TESTED. BUT, it’s not NECESSARY all the time. You may have had APPROACH INVITATION without even NOTICING IT, and consequently she won’t shit test. Anyway, the POINT here is that rather than focusing on just getting a smooth # close, focus on PROJECTING VALUE onto yourself. The best way that I know is to PROD HER TO SHIT TEST YOU using INSTANT comments about the two of you being together and breaking up, because when she starts shit testing you in response to this, and you pass shit tests, you really project a LOT of sexual value in a short period of time. And then she tries to GET RAPPORT with you.
She thinks WHO-IS-THIS-GUY????
The KEY is to ATTRACT her to WANT to get rapport with you. NOT this bullshit like TRYING to get rapport RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE. This is BULLSHIT, and anyone who says that they lay HOT chicks like this consistently is either an anomaly (like has something unusual going for them), goodlooking, or exaggerating. The closest thing to an exception would be Gunwitch method, but even guys using Gunwitch method are STILL doing something to project value FIRST, through their sexual state projection. Don’t GIVE IT AWAY too fast. Read my posts on “changing gears” as a MUST READ for this, because it took me a while to figure it out. Don’t switch into rapport the second she tries to get it. But show SIGNS that you are switching gears, and let her EARN your eventual gear switch. RAPPORT BUILDING: OK, rapport building is the weakest link in my PU skills, and its going to be my main focus of improvement in the coming months. My model of the world is typically different than most chicks, so it can be hard sometimes to decide WHAT to reveal and what to keep to myself until later. BEFORE the lay, chicks are looking for reasons NOT to lay you. AFTER the lay, chicks are looking for ways to JUSTIFY having slept with you. Women tend to BACKWARDS JUSTIFY. SO – keep alot of yourself INSIDE, until AFTER the lay, since by then she’ll find alot of your idiosyncrasies CUTE and AMUSING. If you let go the WRONG things, she may still like you, but SCREEN you.
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131 STILL, you have to be REAL with the chick, because this is the MOST IMPORTANT part of the PU in certain ways. With PARTY CHICKS, it’s LESS important, and sometimes UNNECESSARY altogether. I know some chicks who’ve said “don’t tell me your name, it’ll ruin it” during sex. So be OBSERVANT. The KEY to rapport building is to be REAL. You have to ACTUALLY CARE about what the chick is saying, and you have to be REAL with her. BE YOURSELF in certain ways. Be APPROPRIATE of course, but be yourself at least on some levels. CREATE A CONNECTION to the chick. REMEMBER, she will be FAR more AGREEABLE to WHATEVER you tell her, when you’ve done the foundational ATTRACTION work, PRIOR to ALLOWING her to get rapport with you. So its OK to say what’s on your mind, to a certain extent. STILL, you may want to switch back and forth from stuff that conveys value, to stuff that FITS HER MODEL OF THE WORLD. That means that although you want to disclose things that are FLATTERING to yourself, the MORE IMPORTANT thing is to disclose COMMON EXPERIENCES like CHILDHOOD intrigue, and what you went through in life. CHERRY PICK for COMMON types of EMOTIONAL experiences, and EXPLORE THEM TOGETHER. But first, let’s say AGAIN, that using CERTAIN types of approaches this is UNNECESSARY. Using PURE Gunwitch sexual-state projection, this can BREAK her sexual state. SAME if you’re going for ONS with a party-chick, and the rapport will KILL her lust for you. So be OBSERVANT. READ THE SIGNS. If she isn’t attempting to get rapport with you, she may INSTEAD suggest an isolation herself (without your prompting it). I had a chick DRAG me to the bathroom, so that we could be alone, and so that she could ATTEMPT to get me to fuck her in the bathroom. Had I gotten rapport with this chick, she would have lost interest in that I bet. Too bad I’m not into washroom sex, but that’s another issue. Again, READ HER SIGNALS. She will GIVE you WHAT YOU NEED to fuck her, if you are OBSERVANT. If she needs rapport, or more partying, or more romance, there are WAYS to key into it. Examples: • • • •
“what’s your name?” = rapport “let’s go over here” (isolates herself for you) = cockiness/partyguy/alpha/sex neutral talk with sexual bodylanguage, sexual tonality, etc = stay neutral, focus on BODYLANGUAGE / Gunwitch style HB9.5+ chick touching you = a TEST where you have to say “hands off the merchandise”, since she is RE-VALIDATING herself.. this is for ELITE hot chicks
These are just a FEW signals. Start keying into the signals chicks give you, and learn to ADAPT. MIDGAME / ‘GET TOGETHER’ STUFF: When you get together with chicks, you can stuck in a fucking AFC TRAP. One of the big probs with ‘get togethers’, even after TIGHT pickups, is getting out of the AFC FRAME. This is a SERIOUS problem, that I STILL having a sticking point with. I know HOW to get out of it, but I can’t actually do it 100% of the time. One of the problems with this medium (internet), is that we can convey LINES, and STRATEGIES, but we can’t really convey ACTIONS and DELIVERY in the same level of detail. No matter HOW detailed my post is, its just DAMNED hard to convey this kind of thing. But what can I do?? Let’s give it a SHOT… :) The chick may be perceiving you as ALPHA and immediate-fuck worthy during the PU, but once she’s had time to re-affirm her “worth” and “fortitude” between the PU and the get-together, she’s placed you back into a BETA/AFC frame. Or maybe its not even that, but that you didn’t blend attraction generating strategies with rapport building strategies. Or maybe she’s a party-chick, who only likes to bang guys she just met either way. There’s TONS of reasons that she’s slotted you AFC by the meet, but it doesn’t MATTER, so long as you dig yourself OUT of that categorization. You may have even gotten a tongue-down at the meet, but when you get there for the meet-up, she’s acting like she got back from charm-school. A few months ago, I had a chick tell me that its ON next time we meet (since the grocery store was closed and we couldn’t get condoms late at night in Kingston). I call her to pick her up a few days later, and she wants to “meet at the coffee shop” instead of her house. We meet, and I try to move us to another venue (since I’m gonna make up an excuse to isolate), and she REFUSES. Similarly, I had a chick who was implying “go home together” at the club. Since I usually don’t like ONS from clubs, I declined, but said meet up for tomorrow. Next day she was all LOVING ME, but HOLDING OUT since she was playing “The Rules” style shit on me. This shit happens ALL THE TIME, when you’re using solid ASF tactics to FORCE meetups. For me, instead of asking for a #, I’ll set a MEET time and date right there. This is FAR less likely to get flakes than a # where I live, since its a smaller place and the chick KNOWS that I’ll see her again and be pissed off, if she stands me up. Not to mention that I give her the “I don’t tolerate flaky people who are into a plan one minute, but aren’t cool and motivated enough to stick to it.. are you one of those people???” whole speil. So naturally, I don’t get many flakes – but I DO get this “cold phenomenon” on certain occasions. Overnight, it has turned from a “fuck thing”, to a “AFC old fashioned date”, where she’s not being playful or touchy/feely, you’re both kinda uncomfortable 1950s style, and the natural chemistry is AWOL. So what is the ANSWER??? Women are ADAPTABLE, and FLUID. They ADAPT to the frame that YOU set.
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132 -PERSONAL SIDE NOTE ON MIDGAME, AND DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO GO FOR THE JUGGULAR AND LAY HER RIGHT AWAY: This is the DILEMMA. This is the part I HATE. You may WANT a chick that will HOLD OUT for the first few “dates”, in order to JUSTIFY TO YOURSELF that the chick is QUALITY. The problem with this rationality – the chick is ONLY holding out because of the FRAME that you’re putting her in. The UNFORTUNATE reality for guys looking for a “quality woman”, is that a woman’s quality is NOT contingent on her sexual promiscuity (yep, sorry bros.. we have to base it on other stuff). The very large majority of EMOTIONALLY HEALTHY women will fuck for the right guy, within a couple hours of meeting him, should the opportunity for ISOLATION be structured (not always possible). Why do you think that chicks REFUSE to sleep in the same bed as a guy who they’re not sure of yet. Or even “be alone” with him??? This is the shit that Gunwitch keyed me into. Get isolation as SOON as possible, and since chicks are EMOTIONAL-STATE-BASED, they will be EASILY seduced when in isolation – because of the lack of social consequences. Chicks KNOW that they want sex very bad, and they KNOW that if they don’t have social consequences to help them keep their fortitude, they’ll break down and do what they really want. So better just to get the GAMES out of the way, and try to nail her ASAP. If you don’t want to, then at least get her back to your place, and in your bed, so that she KNOWS that you are an alpha male, and that you just DECIDED that you didn’t want to yet, on YOUR TERMS. That way, she’ll at least register you as an exciting alpha male type, and not be TEMPTED in the future by those kind of guys, since in her head she believes she already has one. This is a HUGE prob with chicks. They will cheat with WAY less guilt than guys, because they RATIONALIZE that the beta-guy that she’s with is LUCKY that she stays around, and that he’s “really really nice”. For me, my word is BOND, and I won’t cheat if I agreed to LTR. But as a guy I am LOGICAL. It’s often actually EASIER to lay a chick with a BF, because you only have to convey that you are better than ONE GUY, as opposed to being AS GOOD as her concept of an fantasy IDEAL GUY. Point being – don’t fool yourself. Chicks are STATE BASED, and will most often FUCK when the right emotions/states/hormones go through her. Don’t waste your time trying to structure a “traditional relationship”, because you’ll often get fucked over. Devise a set of FAST SCREENS, to test whether or not a chick is fuck-worthy within MINUTES of meeting her, so that you can just go for the lay ASAP. It’s often your INITIAL INTUITIONS about a chick (when using good screens for what you want) that are MOST RELIABLE anyway. It took me a YEAR AND A HALF to figure out that my old AFC-LTR was a headcase, but using what I know now in terms of screens, I could have screened her within 2 minutes (using basic LSE tests and a cocky pickup style that LSE chicks can’t stomach). PART 3 of 3 So back to the topic of MID GAME, and SETTING THE FRAME. Women are adaptable and fluid. What does this MEAN??? Well when you roll up on the chick for the meet, and you detect that she’s gone cold, you have to adapt by ASSERTING the frame that you want, for the duration of the interaction. If she’s being difficult, do NOT try to LOGICALLY explain to her what you’re doing. I remember when I first started ASF, I started EXPLAINING to a chick that I was meeting up with how all chicks would give it up for the right guy, and that she needed to get with the program, and shit like that. Or explaining why you’re better than her boyfriend, or that this get-together “really is” a hookup and not “just coffee” like she’s trying to say it is, or explaining WHY this was going to be a hookup and not a “date”, or explaining why you don’t spend $$$ on the first date (that last one is the most COMMON mistake of new PUAs – verbally explaining why you won’t spend $$$... hahah I’ve done that, and its LAME ASS.. it will NEVER WORK). NEVER explain to the uncooperative chick what it is that you are doing. Just DO it. Make it “just happen”, despite the no-sex intentions that she had going in. Some basic strategies, on how to RE-ASSERT the hook-up/non-date frame: WHEN YOU SEE HER, INITIATE PLAYFUL KINO IMMEDIATELY: • run up and spin-hug her (credit no9) • roll up, take her right hand with your right hand, her left hand with your left hand (so your hands are x-crossed), and TWIRL her around • roll up, and shake hands, but pull your hand UP and TWIST your wrist, so she has to spin (credit Craig) • sneak up, and tap her wrong shoulder so she looks around for you.. then sort of bump her when s she sees you • steal something from her and make her wrestle you for it • flick something at her so she attacks you • mercy fight TRY TO TAKE HER TO AN EXCITING PLACE, THAT IS COST FREE.. NOT EVEN ONE CENT: • find a strip with sexy/outrageous clothes, and try them on and tease eachother and play-wrestle • meet her at a park, where you can play frisbee or rollerblade or iceskate, and you can tackle her • teach her one basic-simplistic mentalism illusion, go around FOOLING people with it • have a funny adventure together.. go around asking where you can find a cheap hotel as a joke (credit Dreamweaver – I never actually tried this yet, but think it would be good for chicks with a CERTAIN type of outgoing personality) REMEMBER THAT TALKING ABOUT PROBLEMS IS NOT RAPPORT: • remember this ANALOGY – if a chick is banging herself on the head with a HAMMER, and she is BLEEDING, and she says “my head hurts”, you can respond with either A) “stop hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, and it will stop bleeding”, or B)
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133 • •
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“that sounds hard.. I’m sure that you’ll find a way to make it stop hurting though.... ANYWAY, check THIS out..” - ALWAYS CHOOSE ANSWER B. rapport is meant to establish a COMMON MODEL OF THE WORLD, NOT to establish you as her EMOTIONAL TAMPON. NEVER try to get rapport with HER.. Keep ATTRACTING her, until SHE tries to get rapport. NEVER ask her questions about herself, until SHE intiates that conversation. Again, this is for HOT HSE chicks, NOT for LSE chicks, who you should just focus on telling them that they are trash, and that you won’t judge them for it, so they should stick with YOU – conforming to their self-loathing beliefs, etc etc.. if she complains, BRIEFLY show some very light empathy, and CHANGE the subject BACK to attraction generating stuff (tickling, teasing, ANYTHING other than that crap).. AGAIN, NOT for LSE chicks or dumbass UGs, who you should just listen, tell them that they’re trash, and should stick with you.. that’s ALL it takes for these LSE chicks..
NEVER LET THE DATE GO “LJBF”-FEEL. IT ALWAYS HAS TO BE CHARGED IN SOME WAY. MINIMIZE QUIET-TIME: • • •
try to avoid long drives before you’ve had sex, unless you’re good at macking while driving try to have her meet you somewhere, where you can start gaming her IMMEDIATELY if you’re just meeting her at a club, and she agrees to go home with you, don’t let her get away from you or disengage her emotional states.. She will go back to her friends, be dissuaded, and flake. • if you pick her up at her house, attempt the “NEWSPAPER INK CLOSE”, explained later in this post. • the SECOND you see the interaction going QUIET or STALLING, tickle her, steal something, do ANYTHING to keep it charged at ALL COSTS. Stick your tongue out at her, -whatever-.. do SOMETHING • a GREAT strategy for when you STALL, is to use the “awkward pause” as a time to PHASE SHIFT. Just look DEEP into her eyes. She’ll say “what... whaaaaaat..”, and you just look at her al confident and knowingly, then either project sexual state Gunwitch style, or run a phase shift ROUTINE. • as an absolute LAST RESORT, have some gimmicks prepared. AVOID THIS, but if its massively stalling, it can provide FODDER to neg her and tease her with, when she discloses certain things about herself throughout the course of the exercise. -**do things that CONFUSE her, such as saying she can’t have you, and kissing her. Saying she’s a “DORK” or “DWEEB”, and tickling her. USE FRACTIONATION TECHNIQUES: • when you drop a mega-bomb pattern on her, step back and let the experience SOAK IN.. don’t push her over the edge and make yourself come across UNGENUINE -constantly go BACK and FORTH… be a STATE MANIPULATION MASTER.. a fucking PUPPET MASTER.. push her through states like a fucking PRO.. OBSERVE when she’s at a boiling point, and do SOMETHING ELSE.. go back and forth, back and forth.. keep her on her toes.. don’t be predictable and run a 2 hour patterning session, or 2 hours of C&F.. don’t let yourself into a RUT of fluff talk.. go back and forth, left and right, up and down.. have STRATEGIES on how to do that.. MAKE IT IMPLICIT THAT SHE LOSES IF SHE PLAYS ‘GAMES’ - YOU DO NOT NEED HER. NOT STATED DIRECTLY, BUT MADE OBVIOUS: • • • •
•
if she’s a party-girl type, then check out other chicks in front of her, without making any excuses for it. When she shit-tests you, DENY it in a FUNNY way, that is basically a shit-testing passing measure. It has to be FUNNY, and you don’t take her accusations SERIOUSLY. do funny things, like chatting up OTHER chicks – making them LAUGH.. when you meet other chicks, do like 1000 little funny kisses on their hands.. “mwa mwa mwa mwa mwa” on some new chicks hand, so she’ll GIGGLE around you, and SOCIAL PROOF you for the chick you’re with (for HSE chicks only).. Show her you are DESIRABLE, and have the ability to WALK. Check HER out LIBERALLY, at points when its GOING WELL. So don’t do it when she’s still being uncooperative, but do it when she’s starting to want you. Even check her out, and joke that she can’t have you. make it your TOP PRIORITY to enlist the help of PIVOTS, who can help you with particularly stubborn chicks.. Basically, what you want to do, is to do what the chicks who YOU wanted back your AFC days did to YOU, but in REVERSE. Have chicks that are ORBITERS, and who will do ANYTHING to keep your friendship. Talk to them like you’re a FAG, but at the same time make them feel SAFE around you. Have female FRIENDS, who LOVE you and would do ANYTHING for you. When a chick is stubborn, have them roll up on you while you’re out, and hug you and look all jealous at the chick that you’re with. If you don’t CURRENTLY have a pivot, then LJBF the next chick that you go out with, and start CULTIVATING a LEGIT friendship with her. You can also use her for CLUBS, so that when you PU chicks from clubs, they SAW direct EVIDENCE that she isn’t the only chicks that you are in contact with. if absolutely necessary use stuff, like CPowles shit about “all my relationships start passionately” to REFRAME the traditionaldating mentality. Make it clear that you want things “NATURAL”, and that you don’t appreciate “society dictating your actions, and that you go in with NO AGENDA, and just let whatever happens happen.. does SHE have an agenda??? :)” Follow this with tickling and such, to keep her IN STATE. Still, this is to be avoided, since it is PREFERABLE just to seem MYSTERIOUS and that you don’t JUSTIFY yourself. It’s actually better to just have a knowing look, and NOT REACT to her bullshit. Still, this doesn’t always work, so fall back on these strategies.
SET THE “YOU ARE IN CONTROL” FRAME, BY TAKING AWKWARD PAUSES, AND STARING AT HER DEEPLY, ETC: •
don’t ask her for her permission on ANYTHING.. if you are ALPHA she’ll appreciate it.. if you’re BETA, she’ll TEST you on it, and you have to NOT REACT • at certain points, just sit there and LOOK at her.. let the ENDORPHINS run through both of you • strike while the iron is HOT.. NEVER pass up on a HOT MOMENT, or the chick’s limbic brain will be DISENGAGED • take her places without telling her where you’re going.. good, because when you bring her somewhere isolated, the PRECEDENT that you don’t say anything will have been set.
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Again, ALWAYS phase shift when the time is right.. NEVER be afraid to phase shift.. REMEMBER that is in IN FACT, -INAPPROPRIATE- and –TACKY- not to phase shift when the time is right. GO IN FOR THE KILL WHEN SHE IS PRIMED OR RISK LOSING ALL YOUR PROGRESS.
HAVE FUN WHILE USING THESE SORTS OF TACTICS: • REMEMBER, that if using these tactics is not FUN for you, that you will come off as LAMEASS and INCONGRUENT. • this stuff is meant to be FUN to use, because chicks react positively to it.. if its not fun, then make it a PRIORITY to find a style that IS. • don’t be a ‘TRY-HARD’, or chicks will DETECT it, and assume that you have an AGENDA, and that you are not GENUINE, which is a massive TURN OFF for them. SO REMEMBER: Keep the interaction TIGHT and CHARGED. Either focusing on attracting until phase shift, or attracting until she wants RAPPORT, giving that to her, and then phase shifting. Your goal is to get her to her BOILING POINT. “Stick a fork in me, I’m done.” Using this kind of MENTALITY – that I’m NOT being screened by her, but rather just doing my own thing, I can almost ALWAYS get with a chick I’m interacting with. The problem for ME, and my SP, is actually picking the chick up in the first place, so I can get a CLEAN SHOT at her. But so long as I have a CLEAR SHOT, I can use this kind of stuff to close no probs.. That’s why I was able to PU the Cosmo Model on the airplane. Because I had her ONE on ONE, on the plane. In a club, I doubt I could have gotten ANYWHERE, given my current skillsets. I can even get with my profs, my teaching assistants, and any chick that gets left alone with me for whatever reason. Because I EXPLOIT having a CLEAR SHOT, since being ALONE together FORCES her to live in ONE of our frames. Since my frame is DOMINANT, she will be sucked in MINE. The KEY, is to keep it in YOUR FRAME. Do NOT succumb to the DATING FRAME, or you will 99% NOT close the chick that night (or even that month). You should SENSE the dating frame when its occurring, by her “I’m not sure yet” composure, and sort of “evaluating / NOT swept off her feet” thing, often evident by lack of kino and her not leaning into you. You should always be doing SOMETHING to bring yourself closer to your goal. Teasing, touching, subtly demonstrating your excellence, connecting deeply in rapport, projecting a sexual state, leading, playing hard to get, confusing, playfighting, conspiring together, stimulating, pausing awkwardly to show your absolute comfort in your own reality, having fun, etc etc etc.. SOMETHING that is moving you to the goal. Eventually, when you’re GOOD, you’ll do these things NATURALLY, without much thought. I’m PART WAY there, so I still have to do them CONSCIOUSLY oftentimes. But a lot of them I just do NATURALLY now. Now if you are a HARDCORE SKILLED PUA, you could even take them out for dinner and PAY FOR IT, and STILL get laid.. Just so long as you keep YOUR frame the whole time. This makes it MUCH more difficult, but so long as you keep YOUR frame (as described above), the chick will ADAPT to what’s put out, and still do what you want. DICTATE the frame, and the chick will ADAPT to it. You RESULTS will be dictated by what you PUT OUT THERE. Suck the chick into YOUR reality, and she will be more inclined to adapt to YOUR frame. Remember that chicks ADAPT, and that you are FUCKING UP if things aren’t moving forward in one way or another. At the same time, having fun IS moving things forward, so don’t be PARANOID that you’re not. Having fun isn’t something that you FAKE. It’s something that you DO. Put out the RIGHT frame, and she’ll be into DIRTY SEX, and THREESOMES, and SEXUAL CONNECTIONS, and all sorts of EROTIC type shit.. Put out the WRONG frame, and she’ll be into SCREENING you and DATING and NINETEEN-FIFTIES type shit. She will ADAPT to what you put out, so put out the RIGHT vibe. She will APPRECIATE it.
MY CLOSING STUFF: ENDGAME BODYLANGUAGE: My closing efficiency is probably up there with any PUA out there, for an ACCIDENTAL reason. It’s because I actually did EIGHT FUCKING MONTHS of PURE phase shifting when I first got into PU. My first PU book was this thing called “Secrets for success with beautiful women” by Ursula Lidstrom, who said to focus ONLY on bodylanguage and sexual state projection. This was my ONLY pickup resource at the time, so ALL that I practiced was PHASE SHIFTING during that time period. She had DETAILS on this, because she is a ZOOLOGIST, who had alot of info on this stuff. The bodylanguage stuff was fantastic, and the EIGHT PURE MONTHS of practicing bodylanguage has helped me tremendously, although the TECHNIQUES that she suggested got me NOTHING. ALL I did was go up to chicks and practice phase shifting, right from the start. This strategy could have worked, except that Ursula Lidstrom advocated COMPLIMENTING the shit out of chicks, which made me seem very supplicatant. Still, I had some chicks interested occasionally, but I was too scared to close them at that time, so I’d eject. Funny enough, these same chicks SOCIAL PROOF me now when I’m PU’ing other chicks, since they remember me from like a year ago, and come hug me when I’m with the new chicks I’m PU’ing. Point is, PRACTISE BODYLANGUAGE. This ACCIDENT (me using just that one book for eight months) has helped me TREMENDOUSLY, now that I have access to better techniques. Practice the SEQUENCE of TRIANGULAR GAZING, and open body language. Sidelong glances, lip licking, head tilting, smiling, soft tonality A-L-L have to be put into CALIBRATED SEQUENCE. PRACTISE a look that will make chicks fucking MELT when you’re passing by. I once made a chick FALL OVER ON HER FACE while she was with her BOYFRIEND, in a department store in Ottawa.. I tried to PU her right there in front of her BF, and he was PISSED. He KNEW what was up. When I’m at university, it’s VERY common that chicks I approach will say “you FINALLY came over!!!” I’m like WTF??? And its because I practice it on EVERY chick that passes me, and many of them know who I am, since they don’t realize that I do this ALL DAY. Just try not to bump into poles and shit like that, while you’re staring down every chick that passes (funny, but I’m not joking). By having this kind of AURA, you can close chicks FAR more easily. Twentysix, for example, is probably a BETTER PUA than I am when it comes to ACTUAL PICKUP. But he can’t come close to my close-rates, SOLELY because of the ENDGAME stuff that I
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135 developed over those barren eight months. By getting your endgame stuff this tight, you can close chicks even with poor technique oftentimes. I’ve had a few chicks tell me that I’m so sexual and all this shit.. “the most sexual man I’ve ever met” etc etc... HAHAHAH they don’t know that deep down inside I’m a fucking NERD.. like the LEAST sexual guy on the PLANET just a year ago.. It’s FAKE, and REHEARSED.. So, IOW, if **I** can do it, ANYONE can. You can LEARN bodylanguage and sexual state projection, by seeking out books that cater EXCLUSIVELY to that, and PRACTISING this stuff. ANYONE can learn it. As I’ve been saying for months now, “GUNWITCH METHOD” is by far the BEST internet stuff written, BAR NONE, in the scene for PHASE SHIFTING. ANYONE who ignores GWM text is ignoring a GREAT read. Gunwitch sums up the sexual state in like 16 pages or something, and its tight stuff. I still liked some of the other stuff I read in hardcopy a bit better, but that shit was all professional and all that. But Gunwitch’s stuff is the cheapest (free), fastest, and best starting point, IMHO. Definitely a great place to start, and I really like how he advocates NEUTRAL TALK when phase shifting. REMEMBER, this is SO IMPORTANT. When you are PHASE SHIFTING, you have to heed Gunwitch’s advice, and maintain NEUTRAL CONVERSATION. Keep it NEUTRAL, so that you both can focus on BODY LANGUAGE, and moving your heads closer to eachother and all that. Do NOT try to run a fucking ROUTINE or PATTERN when you’re about to kiss the chick, or she’ll be too INTRIGUED to focus on the sexual state that you are projecting. The only exception is the EVOLUTION PHASE SHIFT KISS CLOSE, which isn’t bad since it talks about the feelings that she is going through RIGHT THERE. GAME is meant to get you from POINT A (disinterest, or neutral opinion of you), to POINT B (attraction to you). Do NOT continue to GAME a chick who is ALREADY attracted to you at that moment. Just focus on PHASE SHIFTING, and getting the tongue-down. So LEARN a tight phase shift, and endgame becomes much EASIER. Poor pickups will still CONVERT to lays. ENDGAME TECHNIQUES AND SCAMS – SOME OF MY FAVOURITE SHIT TO USE: You may find that this shit is fucking funny as hell, but it WORKS. I have PILES of tricks that I use, but I’ll post my two FAVOURITES. 1)
NEWSPAPER INK CLOSE If you don’t f_close on the PU, the CHEAPEST date that I know of is to put NEWSPAPER INK on your hand!!! SWEEEEEEET!! COST FREE SHIT BROS!! :) People may recall that a while back I was asking for ideas on cost-free dates.. And it was really bugging me going out with new chicks everyday, and having to do shit with these chicks that was TIME CONSUMING. So INSTEAD, I figured that I had to make it so I could f_close when I picked her up at her house.. But HOW??? Well I figured that I needed a way to get INTO HER HOUSE, so that she’d be isolated right from the start. Using the phase shift stuff I described above, I can pretty much close the deal on ANY chick that I have ALONE. PROBLEM IS though, that its VERY hard to get them to agree to be alone, most of the time, when you’re dealing with these early 20s chicks. So the SOLUTION is to roll up a NEWSPAPER in your fist as you drive over, and let some INK get all onto your hand. When you get to the chick’s house, tell her that you got ink on your hands from reading the paper, and that you need to use the sink. See, I used to say I needed to take a piss, but that wasn’t as good as this, because she’d give me PRIVACY. Also, its kinda weird to piss in a new chick’s house. But LIKE THIS, since you have ADVANTAGES: 1-if she says ‘no’, you can start teasing her by putting the ink onto her face.. this is PLAYFUL no matter what, so regardless its a GOOD RESULT 2-if she says ‘yes’, you can chat her as she comes to the sink with you, and then you SPLASH the water on her FACE.. this starts a PLAYFIGHT.. hahahhahaa, and we ALL KNOW what happens when you playfight with a chick who is INTERESTED.. this is FUNNY SHIT.. you can bring her to the couch/table/bedroom/floor RIGHT THEN AND THERE, NO “DATE” NECESSARY.. Now the other thing with this whole “get into her house” idea, is that you want to get her FAMILIARIZED with you being in her house (I recall a guy on the DYD CDs who explained this same idea even more clearly). So no matter WHAT, find an EXCUSE to get in there, even if you still leave for your date. Its a GREAT idea to go in, wash your hands, and LEAVE, **IF** you don’t feel that you can close it. It shows restraint, and trustworthiness. She’ll be USED to the idea of you being in her house, and will resist it much less down the line. But, if you’re a PUA going on a lot of dates, then try to focus on just closing it no date (unless you have alot of free time). Just try it a few times, and play around with it.
2)
THE “RELAXATION EXERCISE” CLOSE A SMOOTH way to phase shift on a chick, is to STRUCTURE something that will cause the two of you to be TOUCHING eachother for an extended period of time, in a way that she won’t mind or resist. A great way to do that is to watch a movie together, and spoon on the couch. Often, she didn’t really intend to sleep with you, but the 2 hours of spooning and caressing will cause her to turn over at the end of the movie, start kissing, touching, clothes come off, etc etc.. Especially after a movie that stimulates her in some way (be it romance, action, sex, comedy, whatever)
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136 But BETTER YET, for chicks who won’t rent a movie with you, just focus on getting them reasonably isolated, and trying this out. Wait until the chick does ANYTHING that allows you to bring up that she’s a little “wound up / ansi / etc”.. Then, tell the chick that you’re gonna help her to “relax”, but still stand kinda FAR away from her, so she won’t think that you’re gonna suggest massage or something, in case she resists on that account. 1-Tell her to sit on the floor, while you’re STILL STANDING, looking kinda disinterested not totally facing her, so she’s disarmed. 2-Now, she’s already SITTING DOWN maybe cross-legged. Then YOU sit down on the floor, against the wall, and without looking guilty or anything (like its totally NORMAL), tell her to put her back up against yours, so that she’s sitting in between the V, in between your legs. So basically, you’re leaning back on the wall, with your legs spread so she can lean her back against your stomach. You’re “spooning” while sitting up. 3-Tell her that she’s going to “visualize” some kind of bullshit. Hold hands with her, and interlock your fingers. Again, this is part of the RELAXATION EXERCISE, and it has to be made to seem TOTALLY NORMAL, so that she will seem WEIRD and UPTIGHT and ANALLY RETENTIVE if she doesn’t go along with it. NOTE: the POWERFUL part of this, is that you’re both ALREADY sitting down on the floor, so if she DECLINES, them you both have to STAND UP, and BRUSH OFF, all for NOTHING.. SOLELY because she’s uptight, and doesn’t trust you.. so basically she’s put in a position where she has to diss you REALLY BAD, if she doesn’t go along with it, because of the way that you STRUCTURED it, by getting her to sit down, and you sitting down, PRIOR to you telling her exactly what it is that you’re doing 4-Memorize some lame-ass RELAXATION EXERCISE. The “Rose Pattern”, found in the PlayerGuide can suffice for this. I used to use it, but use a synesthetic hypnotic demo now, which is basically the SAME SHIT as that anyway. Run the exercise, and ANCHOUR certain feelings to her by squeezing her hand at certain points, if you feel her breathing increase. I’m not really good at anchours and I dunno if they’re real or not, but I just try anyway, since I figure it’s a decent time to touch her or whatever. 5-Now, while you run this demo that should take like 4-5 minutes or so, start talking INTO HER EAR… closer and closer.. 6-Run your lips accidentally into her hair, ear, neck, whatever, until she LEANS IN, and then start KISSING HER CHEEK accidentally as you talk.. 7-She’s on the floor already, so you just sort of lean her sideways over, start tonguing her down, and then you’re on your own bros! :)
ENDGAME - LAST MINUTE RESISTANCE: Personally, I really like Maniac_High’s stuff on LMR. I use the traditional ASF stuff here. Some general guidelines for LMR from ASF that I use have always been: •
• •
--
“you’re right, we should stop” - and KEEP going, which DISENGAGES her logical brain, since she is TRYING to REMOVE HERSELF FROM STATE, by getting you to ARGUE.. She is ENJOYING it TOO MUCH, so she will try to play off of YOU in order to piss herself off with your arguing, and snap herself out of state.. by AGREEING, and continuing, she is left in a position where SHE will have to do the dirty work if she wants to stop.. that doesn’t mean to keep going if she physically resists WHATSOEVER.. it just means if she’s still passionately into it, then just say “you’re right, we should stop”, and WASH RINSE REPEAT, as Maniac_High says.. IOW, just keep making out or doing whatever the act is that you’re doing, and try to escalate it in another 10 minutes or so, to see if “we should stop” really means “I am not horny enough yet, and need more foreplay” figure out HOW she likes it.. Try getting REALLY INTENSE, and pinning her arms up behind her head and shit like that.. maybe she doesn’t like that.. so adapt, and make it really tender and sweet and all that shit.. structure it so she’s being a big doofus for putting the brakes on, since its just clicking so well. Barring that, the FREEZE OUT – if she resists too much, but her attraction is still ESCALATING, you can TIME IT so that you literally just GET UP and totally LJBF her. Make her feel STUPID for RUINING such a MAGICAL and PASSIONATE moment. I learned this first from the Mystery archive, with his “get up and play checkers” bit.. Then he explained it to me more in real life, and showed me a video of how to do it that was really sweet. Just remember to stay totally COOL about it, and don’t make it OBVIOUS that you’re trying to manipulate her. Don’t let your indifference appear TRANSPARENT, or it’ll just piss her off.
OK that’s it. For me, following my own advice is probably something that I do only SOMETIMES. During PU, I can “assert my own reality” at my top ideal capacity maybe 10% of the time. Yet during these times, I can perform at elite levels. Other times, I may do average/alright, or even downright horribly. It depends on how I feel, and a lot on how the NON pickup related stuff in my life is going, which is why I make pickup a LOW PRIORITY compared to other things. Pickup has been a great hobby for me this year, because its been an OUTLET for a greater goal of personal development. I have enjoyed it, and encourage others who feel interested to participate in the endeavour.
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MIXING AND MATCHING V, A, C, Q, S I’ve been posting on this forum for a year and a half now. Wow, its been awesome. There are alot of guys who have followed the discussions here ever since around last December (a bit over a year ago), when things started to click for me. The stuff starting from my 7th PDF archive, that is the hot material. Guys like JLaix, SteviePUA, Twentysix and Coolwater are all up to speed on this. Other guys have just gotten to the chatboard more recently, and may be confused by the level of discussion we’re having. Or guys like TokyoPUA who are just too busy out getting laid, to keep up with my ridiculous amounts of keyboard jockeying, but are curious about it. This post is just a common sense summary of what we do, and why we do it. There is nothing groundbreaking in this post, but it is a useful summary and analysis of what we do. Its good review for advanced guys anyway, but really is just intended to get everyone up to speed. I’m posting this because I’m about to post some VERY advanced and esoteric shit in the coming months. Top notch stuff that I’m really proud of, and I want to have everyone up to speed on WTF I’m doing. Anyway, I really enjoy participating on this chatboard, and I hope that this encourages people to get out there and test this higher level stuff, because its really a great hobby and it gets you laid like a fucking rockstar. Mixing and matching V, A, C, Q, S. Some basic often asked questions from the scene are: • • • • • • • •
should I compliment or not? should I act sexual or playful? should I bust on the girl, or try to build rapport? should I open with rapport first because its more genuine, or use opinion openers? should I try to seduce her, or entertain the group? should I engage the whole group, or go straight up to the girl? is bodylanguage and tonality and having an aura of alphaness really enough to attract girls, or do I need to memorize routines? can I talk my way out of a lay, by trying to hard to use all this “game”?
What I want to address here, is that these questions do not have blanket answers. I want to break down what the tactics are that we use, why we use them in particular orders, and whether its even necessary to deliberately use them at all. Some stuff we all use is: (V) Social-Value tactics (peacocking, social proof, subcommunicating that you are in and on top of their you carry yourself in general - you are generally a COOL guy and its obvious)
scene, and the way that
(A) Attract material (push/pull, routines, DHVs, teasing, roleplaying, challenging/qualifying, IVDs, CAT Theory, mini-cold-reads, high energy humour stories, sexual predator misinterpretation, pimptalk, engaging the group but using active ignorance on the girl you want, etc etc) (C) Comfort material (commonalities, exchanging values, yes-ladders, kino/kissing, vulnerability, talking about the emotional relevance of things and seeing how she responsds, spending approximately 7 hours together and just “being together”, testing for trust via leaving stuff with eachother or not taking the chance to make eachother feel uncomfortable when the opportunity comes up) (Q) Qualification material (making her perceive that she has unique value to you, arbitrary qualifiers “I love redheads”, emotional qualifiers “I just feel good around you”, hard qualifying “Is there more to you than meets the eye? What do you have going for you?”, presenting hoops “I want x,y,z in a girl.. (so she’ll say she has them), genuine compliments, M2F/F2M” (S) Sexual state (slowing down, triangular gazing, phase shift routines, kiss close routines, etc) So typically, we use the formula of V, A, C, Q, S. That’s a tried and true formula -> it works. There is no perfect model, and if you’re a natural, you don’t even need to think about this stuff. You may do it nonetheless, but its unconscious. But just in terms of advanced game theory, its interesting to just see that these are elements that in general will usually go into an interaction that leads to sex. It’s also funny to note that a year ago this post would be considered very advanced, but just in terms of how we’ve progressed as a chatgroup, this post is actually very basic and obvious stuff (it really belongs in ‘General’). I think that’s really cool. So anyway, to map out why the linear progression typically works, in the particular order of V, A, C, Q, S, we could just look at what typically is necessary: AN EXAMPLE OF A LINEAR PROGRESSION (this is just a sweeping generalization): In most sets, the real hotties won’t even give you the time of fucking day unless you are dressed cool, have other girls that want you, you look like you’re just a cool guy who is hanging at the venue and although other girls are chasing you you’re not wasting your time trying to sleep with them (puts you on the LEVEL of the super hottie HB10s since they do the same), and show that you have the mannerisms and SUBTLE knowledge that the guys who are at the top of their scene have.
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138 From that point, you can open. Yep, a 10 will actually (GASP!) talk to you. Congratulate yourself. :) You have the basic level of social value that’s necessary for the girls to be willing to chat you. Like, in Miami South Beach, me being a younger guy wearing a “Pimp The Clown” shirt won’t fly. Likewise, acting REALLY FUN won’t work either. That’s because its mostly model golddiggers trying to get rich mafioso. So I dress COOLER than the mafioso, by being like TURBO mafioso. Then I act COOLER than them, by taking on their mannerisms (like I outlined in that long post about A-list social scenes), but act COOLER than them. Notice the word “COOLER” all through this paragraph.. :) ---> BE COOL! From there, she may talk to you but she’ll still blow you off fast, unless you do something to make yourself emotionally relevant to her. Otherwise, you’re just a shitty boring movie that she wants to walk out of. You can’t go immediately into rapport or act sexual, because they’ll screen you as autopilot response (many many guys have tried that already tonight). They’re 10s in looks, and you’re a 7. They already have fuckbuddies or boyfriends (90%+ of hot girls are already getting laid), and they’re supposedly out to “have fun and dance” with their friends. So we bust in with canned openers (or a COOL one that you came up with on the spot) to break their pattern of rejecting every guy that comes their way, and they actually talk to you for even a few minutes more. Then we pummel them with (A) material, to get them wanting to talk to you more. The push/pull and DHVs and all that. This is the GLUE that forces them to sit there and actually get to know you as the pickup progresses. And that’s the thing. Even though we spend alot of time on this board discussing the (A) phase (perhaps because so few people ever get beyond it), but actually its the (C) phase that gets you the girl. So you get to know the girl and build massive comfort and trust. She loves you. You’re awesome. It wasn’t the (A) material that got you to this point. BUT, it was the (A) material that got her to even acknowledge you in the first place. Having built comfort, she will still throw up anti-slut-defenses if she hasn’t done anything to impress you. The reason for that, is that her social conditioning tells her “This guy just came up to me and made me want to sleep with him. Now he’s trying to ask for my # or extract me. But I’ve done nothing to impress him. He must sleep with every girl he approaches. I’m not going to be the next notch on his bedpost”. So she flakes you off, despite that she’s attracted to you. Of course, to avoid that we then use (Q) based material. We compliment, and use the other tactics listed above. This makes her think “WOW, I really have what it takes for this awesome guy!” Note, btw, that there are times where you actually have a very natural connection with a girl. You just hit it off amazingly well. So for those girls, there is no need to deliberately qualify. You can, but its not absolutely necessary or anything. She can sense it, and so can you. But most super hotties are ditzy by nature. They’re about as intelligent as YOU would be, if you had everything handed to you on a silver platter. So who can blame them. But that doesn’t mean you don’t want to hook up with them, so you need to make the effort to qualify them. From there, their ASD wall goes down, and you can go sexual. You phase shift, and she’ll be open to it. The linear progression works consistently on most sets. Makes sense. It works. It’s field tested by various guys for many many lays.
OK, so cool. We have reasonably a linear model. However, in spite of that, there are still real world scenarios that pop up, that raise questions. 1** Deliberately installing the elements of V, A, C, Q, S into every sarge is not always necessary. Many interactions have them structured into them already, so you need not consciously install them. 2** The particularly order of V, A, C, Q, S is just something that OFTEN works, but it is not always necessary to follow that particular order. They can often be mixed and matched. These 5 elements are just generalized things that we can pretty much assume are necessary elements of a pickup. But there are many many interactions that have these elements already pre-installed, and many many interactions where the particular ordering of V first, then A, then C, etc, is actually NOT as effective as mixing up the order. Let’s look at a few cases: PARTIES: You’re at a party. Portions of © is taken care of, because your girls’ friends all vouch for you, and you come from the same social circle (so the trust is there, but you still have to connect with the girl so there is still some work). (Q) may even be taken care of to a certain extent, because it is social custom to hook up with friends of friends (its at least easier). (V) is even often taken care of, because social value is assumed, just so long as you are one of the more alpha and charismatic guys at the party. Also, it is UNNECESSARY to open with attract based material. You don’t need to use opinion openers to start, and you don’t need to use (A) type material right away, because the girl is LOCKED IN to talking to you. It’s a party among friends. She has to talk to someone, and if you’re a cool enough guy it will probably be you. The same goes for A-List top venues, where you have to be a SOMEBODY to even be permitted into the venue. The girls assume that you’re a hot-shot, so you don’t have to pummel them with push/pull right away, just to have them willing to sit there and chat you. At the same time, you don’t want to go in and try too hard for rapport either. Like you don’t want to go in there boring as fuck. Just go in natural. Say “Hey”, and wait for her to qualify herself a bit. Sit there until she answers, like its ASSUMED that the two of you should talk to eachother because its a social gathering. Talk about something really fucking cool that you saw. Then build commonality that the two of you are in the same scene, and she’ll be intrigued with you a bit. Then, once you have a sort of rapport, BAM you can slip in the push/pull and tease her a bit. This is a GREAT formulation for the following reason: You can make her comfortable enough to justify sleeping with you, and then BAM you up up up buying temperature. You can literally just pull her into the bedroom of the party and full monty right there.
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139 It’s not like with the A prior to C formulation, where you have to worry about her losing state while you’re building comfort. But if that’s a problem, then why do we typically use the A first and C second formulation? Again, its because she won’t be willing to even TALK to you if you haven’t dealt with A. At a party though, this isn’t the case. So it makes much more sense to use a bit of attract just to not be categorized as a chump, but to build up comfort and fractionate between the two a bit, and then REALLY PUMP the attraction when you’re ready to seduce. YOU’RE COOLER OR BETTER LOOKING THAN THE GIRL: If you’re very obviously cooler or more attractive than the girl, you can go in with (Q) first. You can literally walk up and compliment her. That’s why so many guys say they like compliment openers. They’ve had luck with them. Of course they’re not telling you that they’re goodlooking or socially proofed guys, or that they’re sleeping with 7s. YES, I open with compliments. I’ve done it many times. Likewise, I’ve walked up and just introduced myself. Like I’ll walk up and extend my hand and say “Hey, I’m Tyler. I thought you looked like someone I’d like to meet. Those are the coolest looking glasses I’ve seen in a long time. They rock. Where did you get them?” Why the fuck not? If the girl looks shy, this will OPEN HER UP. Just so long as it doesn’t come across like you’re trying to manipulate her, its fine. Note that the alot of guys just come across SO COOL by their bodylanguage and tonality, that they can get away with zero routines or anything. They just need to walk up, tease a bit and let her know that he’s interested, and she’ll go for it. The same goes for group sets. If you’re that cool of a guy, occassionally the girl will signal to her friends “I LIKE THIS ONE, SO DO NOT COCKBLOCK THIS”. The friends will back off. Group theory won’t be needed. This is obvious, as girls DO get picked up in clubs by guys who don’t know group theory. It’s just not consistent (so saying “guys get laid all the time without all this stuff” is a logical fallacy, because yes they DO, but its not CONSISTENT like the way it is with using tactics). Personally I never bank on this though, because even if you have this, you will still often get cockblocked. The peergroup will just get jealous, and force it. So I engage the whole group, because I feel that nothing can be lost from it. You can always go sexual down the line • there is no time limit on it, IME. Still, that’s not to say that going up direct can’t be done. It CAN. PARTY CHICKS: In the case of party chicks, they are usually very hyper and not thinking about safety consequences or social consequences. So that being the case, there is no discomfort. They aren’t afraid of you raping them if you get them alone, because they’d LIKE for you to jump on them. Likewise, they aren’t worried about being sluts, because they ARE sluts, and they embrace that image as who they are. Girls like this are called “laddettes” in Britain. Samantha Jones from the TV show ‘Sex and the City’ is a girl like that also. Getting to know a guy is a potential turnoff for her, because she may have BECOME a party chick because she was hurt by a past guy who she fell in love with and let her down. So making her fall in love with you will just turn her off. She wants fun sex, and that’s it. So the © and (Q) are taken care of. The comfort is that she doesn’t give a shit, and the qualification is that she’s a horny girl and you can provide her with her sexual needs. That’s it. GIRLS CONSCIOUSLY LOOKING FOR SEX: Oftentimes, girls will be in a bad relationship, or have just broken up, or will not have gotten laid in a long time. They are at a point where they just want sex. They’re open to it. If you approach enough women, you will find them. You will have value to these girls, just by virtue of having a dick in our pants. If they are down with the program, you can cut to the chase. Likewise, you may be a sex fantasy to the girl. Take a 34 year old woman. Do you think that me, as a super cool looking 24 year old, has to game her that much? No way. She just wants validation that her hours in the gym have attracted a young toy-boy. I can go in neutral, and just phase shift and spend a few hours just escalating kino and phase shifting, and we’ll have sex. The same goes for extremely buffed or goodlooking guys, who get laid all the time. They have no game, but they’re confident and cool enough not to disqualify themselves when a girl wants them, so they get laid.
Anyway, these are just a few examples. I could post more, but I think its just common sense. What I’m trying to convey in this post is: 123-
There are identifiable elements in almost all successful pickups. Some of these elements must be deliberately installed, while others are often taken care of for you before you’ve even gone in. You therefore need not deliberately focus on them, for fear of visibly “trying too hard”. There is a sequence that typically works best, because typical pickup situations call for it. However, many situations allow for you to mix and match the order in which you install the elements, or allow you not to have to install them at all.
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140 I hope that this answers alot of questions as to stuff like “Should I compliment or not?” or “Is it ungenuine to go in with canned stuff? Do I really have to use it?”, etc etc. For guys who are worried that this stuff is too complicated. ITS NOT. This shit is fucking easy that I’ve posted here. Very understandable. Anyone who can graduate high school can understand everything that I’ve ever posted on this board. What I’m saying is that its situational. It depends on the circumstances. All of these things that we use on mASF are tactics that are used in certain situations. There is no black and white. Also, I’m hoping that this will encourage guys not to think so linear, and talk themselves out of easy lays by trying too hard to adhere to a set model. **Like a big problem on the board is that alot of guys will try to do the A then C thing. They pummel the girl with C&F and then go rapport. The girls lose state. But really, you can fractionate back and forth. In fact, you can STACK A, C, Q, S ALL THROUGHOUT MIXED UP IN A BIG MESS. Like you can start sexual with an AI (approach invitation), and then go into being playful, and then qualify her a bit, be more playful, build trust, tease her, qualify her, phase shift for a minute, push her off and be more playful, etc etc etc.. THERE IS NO SET FORMULA. The examples that are posted by myself and others are just models that typically work, but in the real world it is not that black and white. **I VERY OFTEN stack in qualifying throughout the pickup. I don’t usually do it in one phase. I also just go direct sometimes. These are things I don’t post about, because they are so fucking basic to me. But the point is that I don’t always adhere to the exact model that I often discuss on this chatboard. I quickly figure what the situation calls for, and I use common sense. I use the least amount of game necessary to get from waypoint to waypoint. Understand why each phase in the model is necessary, and use common sense to decide whether or not to focus on them. Play the game and have fun!
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BUILDING JEALOSY INTO A SARGE Insights from hanging with Mys this weekend. Building jealousy into a sarge. At a certain point in the sarge of an elite level girl in a public venue, you will be concerned about keeping her on her toes. This is because elite level hot girls have many many options, so you need to really get to them. A solution to this is to build JEALOUSY into the sarge. TWO WAYS: 1 - DEMONSTRATE) Once you have established attraction, have a girl come by and sit on your lap. 2 - CONVEY) Accidentally mention that you can’t make it for certain plans because you bumped into a certain girl from the past. Say this in a way that you dont’ APPEAR to be TRYING to convey this, but are doing it accidentally. PUA: “Actually I can’t make it for then/tommorow/whatever.. I bumped into a ....... person..... and I told them that I’d meet them for then/tommorow/whatever..” HB: “Oh yeah?” PUA: “Yeah... I told her x-time, and I don’t want to break it..” (The keys here are INITIALLY using the words “person” and “them”, to appear to be initially avoiding bringing up that its a chick) The key point is that jealousy is a strong emotion. KEY however is to elicit that emotion at the EXACT PERFECT TIME. Too early, and its lame. Too late, and its so hurtful that she comes out of state. Elicit jealousy at the right time.
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SOCIAL PROOF TRICKS (PIVOTS) SOCIAL PROOF TRICKS: (good for seducing chicks that LJBF’ed you, re-seducing exGFs, and “non-compliant HBs” as I so like to call them)
1) #Closing girls that only YOU know will be flakes (target proximity = close, within earshot): Most people think that a #close is as good as gold. After all, “Why would she have given a # if she wasn’t interested in you?!” Of course, ASFers know all to well that most 2-minute #closes are flakes, but that’s just from experience. Most people assume that they’re solid, quality numbers. How to handle difficult girls then? Start #closing every HB that passes by. Engage her in a pleasant and exciting 2 minute convo., and #close. Your target will think that you’re a mack.
2) Applying heavy kino on pawns (target proximity = distant, out of earshot): Most people think that you can’t apply heavy kino on a girl who’s not somewhat sexually engaged. Not true. To bait your actual target, tell her “I MUST go over and meet that beautiful girl over there.” Approach your pawn, and tell that you just proposed to your GF, and are just so excited to have met your soulmate. Then, once the pawn’s guard is down, start making excuses to kino her (anything). Grab her hands, and tell her you’re so excited about your engagement, “can you feel my energy.. ooooh give me a hug!” 3)
Find an HB9-10 and tell her directly: “Hi, listen, I know this sounds chicken, but I get -really- shy around girls. I -really- like this girl, I know she’s not the prettiest, but I just really like her anyway...she’s really special (get her thinking you’re sweet and shy, turn her into your nurturer). I just get so nervous around her, its like you feel (run pattern about how nervous you get, to gain instant rapport, and to make it exciting for your helper), but if I just could just walk in there with a girl like you, I’d feel so much more confident. It would help me like SO much.” Then tell her directly to ham it up, make it fun for her, like acting. It’ll be the most fun part of your helper’s day if you do it properly. She’ll enjoy it, and she’ll feel good helping out such a sweet guy to find romance. It is sometimes difficult for guys who are less than 7s in looks themselves to PU 9s and 10s without social proof. I suggested doing whatever you need to get it, and what I suggested is thoroughly FIELD TESTED. If your persuasion skills are not adequate to get a pawn to agree to something so trivial, good luck getting your actual target to agree to have sex with you. Have you PU’ed any HB9-10s yet? Just because you don’t post here often doesn’t make me think that you don’t. I’m just curious to see if your comment is ‘theoretical’.
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BACKTURN HANDGRAB FOR MOVING CHICKS I wanted to post a separate thread on this, because its a small subtlety that’s very useful in my game. When I go to move a girl, I always stand up, turn my back to start walking, and poke out my hands behind for her to take. Then we walk holding hands, but she’s behind me and I’m sort of leading/dragging her. The reason that this is very effective is: • • • • • •
if you turned your back, and stuck out your hands for her to take, she’d be making you look very stupid not to take them, so she’ll do it even if she doensn’t like you that much (not that this is the case, but the point is that its that effective) sets the kino frame that kino is OK because your back is turned to her, she’s willing to accept more kino, because it doesn’t feel as intrusive you can do trust-test type kino-pinging to test for IOIs to see how far along you are in the pickup you can let your hands go somewhat limp, to see if she attempts to hold on, as an IOI test to see how far you are in the pickup if she comes over to your house, and you want her in your room, you can turn on your cordless phone and pretend you’re talking, and then just walk to the door and let her in... turn around and do that move and lead her to the bedroom. She won’t question it, because to say know she’d have to interrupt your phone conversation in YOUR house where she’s a guest, so she won’t.. (just say “shoes are OK” and get her to your room, put her on the bed and then stay distracted for a bit so she doesn’t think you’re trying to get her on the bed, then go onto the bed afterwards)
So basically, you turn away from her, and put out your two hands behind your back for her to take. Then you lead her. You can also swing her to your right or left, and then you have her in good position. Good for venue changes, or moving her around in the venue or house.
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RAPPORT BUILDING OK, rapport building is the weakest link in my PU skills, and its going to be my main focus of improvement in the coming months. My model of the world is typically different than most chicks, so it can be hard sometimes to decide WHAT to reveal and what to keep to myself until later. BEFORE the lay, chicks are looking for reasons NOT to lay you. AFTER the lay, chicks are looking for ways to JUSTIFY having slept with you. Women tend to BACKWARDS JUSTIFY. SO keep alot of yourself INSIDE, until AFTER the lay, since by then shell find alot of your idiosyncrasies CUTE and AMUSING. If you let go the WRONG things, she may still like you, but SCREEN you. STILL, you have to be REAL with the chick, because this is the MOST IMPORTANT part of the PU in certain ways. With PARTY CHICKS, its LESS important, and sometimes UNNECESSARY altogether. I know some chicks whove said dont tell me your name, itll ruin it during sex. So be OBSERVANT. The KEY to rapport building is to be REAL. You have to ACTUALLY CARE about what the chick is saying, and you have to be REAL with her. BE YOURSELF in certain ways. Be APPROPRIATE of course, but be yourself at least on some levels. CREATE A CONNECTION to the chick. REMEMBER, she will be FAR more AGREEABLE to WHATEVER you tell her, when youve done the foundational ATTRACTION work, PRIOR to ALLOWING her to get rapport with you. So its OK to say whats on your mind, to a certain extent. STILL, you may want to switch back and forth from stuff that conveys value, to stuff that FITS HER MODEL OF THE WORLD. That means that although you want to disclose things that are FLATTERING to yourself, the MORE IMPORTANT thing is to disclose COMMON EXPERIENCES like CHILDHOOD intrigue, and what you went through in life. CHERRY PICK for COMMON types of EMOTIONAL experiences, and EXPLORE THEM TOGETHER. But first, lets say AGAIN, that using CERTAIN types of approaches this is UNNECESSARY. Using PURE Gunwitch sexual-state projection, this can BREAK her sexual state. SAME if youre going for ONS with a party-chick, and the rapport will KILL her lust for you. So be OBSERVANT. READ THE SIGNS. If she isnt attempting to get rapport with you, she may INSTEAD suggest an isolation herself (without your prompting it). I had a chick DRAG me to the bathroom, so that we could be alone, and so that she could ATTEMPT to get me to fuck her in the bathroom. Had I gotten rapport with this chick, she would have lost interest in that I bet. Too bad Im not into washroom sex, but thats another issue. Again, READ HER SIGNALS. She will GIVE you WHAT YOU NEED to fuck her, if you are OBSERVANT. If she needs rapport, or more partying, or more romance, there are WAYS to key into it. Examples: -whats your name? = rapport -lets go over here (isolates herself for you) = cockiness/partyguy/alpha/sex -neutral talk with sexual bodylanguage, sexual tonality, etc = stay neutral, focus on BODYLANGUAGE / Gunwitch style -HB9.5+ chick touching you = a TEST where you have to say hands off the merchandise, since she is RE-VALIDATING herself.. this is for ELITE hot chicks These are just a FEW signals. Start keying into the signals chicks give you, and learn to ADAPT. MIDGAME / GET TOGETHER STUFF: When you get together with chicks, you can stuck in a fucking AFC TRAP. One of the big probs with get togethers, even after TIGHT pickups, is getting out of the AFC FRAME. This is a SERIOUS problem, that I STILL having a sticking point with. I know HOW to get out of it, but I cant actually do it 100% of the time. One of the problems with this medium (internet), is that we can convey LINES, and STRATEGIES, but we cant really convey ACTIONS and DELIVERY in the same level of detail. No matter HOW detailed my post is, its just DAMNED hard to convey this kind of thing. But what can I do?? Lets give it a SHOT :) The chick may be perceiving you as ALPHA and immediate-fuck worthy during the PU, but once shes had time to re-affirm her worth and fortitude between the PU and the get-together, shes placed you back into a BETA/AFC frame. Or maybe its not even that, but that you didnt blend attraction generating strategies with rapport building strategies. Or maybe shes a party-chick, who only likes to bang guys she just met either way. Theres TONS of reasons that shes slotted you AFC by the meet, but it doesnt MATTER, so long as you dig yourself OUT of that categorization. You may have even gotten a tongue-down at the meet, but when you get there for the meet-up, shes acting like she got back from charm- school. A few months ago, I had a chick tell me that its ON next time we meet (since the grocery store was closed and we couldnt get condoms late at night in Kingston). I call her to pick her up a few days later, and she wants to meet at the coffee shop instead of her house. We meet, and I try to move us to another venue (since Im gonna make up an excuse to isolate), and she REFUSES. Similarly, I had a chick who was implying go home together at the club. Since I usually dont like ONS from clubs, I declined, but said meet up for tomorrow. Next day she was all LOVING ME, but HOLDING OUT since she was playing The Rules style shit on me. This shit happens ALL THE TIME, when youre using solid ASF tactics to FORCE meetups. For me, instead of asking for a #, Ill set a MEET time and date right there. This is FAR less likely to get flakes than a # where I live, since its a smaller place and the chick KNOWS that Ill see her again and be pissed off, if she stands me up. Not to mention that I give her the I dont tolerate flaky people who are into a plan one minute, but arent cool and motivated enough to stick to it.. are you one of those people??? whole speil. So naturally, I dont get many flakes but I DO get this cold phenomenon on certain occasions. Overnight, it has turned from a fuck thing, to a AFC old fashioned date, where shes not being playful or touchy/feely, youre both kinda uncomfortable 1950s style, and the natural chemistry is AWOL. So what is the ANSWER??? Women are ADAPTABLE, and FLUID. They ADAPT to the frame that YOU set. -PERSONAL SIDE NOTE ON MIDGAME, AND DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO GO FOR THE JUGGULAR AND LAY HER RIGHT AWAY: This is the DILEMMA. This is the part I HATE. You may WANT a chick that will HOLD OUT for the first few dates, in order to JUSTIFY TO YOURSELF that the chick is QUALITY. The problem with this rationality the chick is ONLY holding out because of the FRAME that youre putting her in. The UNFORTUNATE reality for guys looking for a quality woman, is that a womans quality is NOT contingent on her sexual promiscuity (yep, sorry bros.. we have to base it on other stuff). The very large majority of EMOTIONALLY HEALTHY women will fuck for the right guy, within a couple hours of meeting him, should the opportunity for ISOLATION be structured (not always possible).
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145 Why do you think that chicks REFUSE to sleep in the same bed as a guy who theyre not sure of yet. Or even be alone with him??? This is the shit that Gunwitch keyed me into. Get isolation as SOON as possible, and since chicks are EMOTIONAL-STATE-BASED, they will be EASILY seduced when in isolation because of the lack of social consequences. Chicks KNOW that they want sex very bad, and they KNOW that if they dont have social consequences to help them keep their fortitude, theyll break down and do what they really want. So better just to get the GAMES out of the way, and try to nail her ASAP. If you dont want to, then at least get her back to your place, and in your bed, so that she KNOWS that you are an alpha male, and that you just DECIDED that you didnt want to yet, on YOUR TERMS. That way, shell at least register you as an exciting alpha male type, and not be TEMPTED in the future by those kind of guys, since in her head she believes she already has one. This is a HUGE prob with chicks. They will cheat with WAY less guilt than guys, because they RATIONALIZE that the beta-guy that shes with is LUCKY that she stays around, and that hes really really nice. For me, my word is BOND, and I wont cheat if I agreed to LTR. But as a guy I am LOGICAL. Its often actually EASIER to lay a chick with a BF, because you only have to convey that you are better than ONE GUY, as opposed to being AS GOOD as her concept of an fantasy IDEAL GUY. Point being dont fool yourself. Chicks are STATE BASED, and will most often FUCK when the right emotions/states/hormones go through her. Dont waste your time trying to structure a traditional relationship, because youll often get fucked over. Devise a set of FAST SCREENS, to test whether or not a chick is fuck-worthy within MINUTES of meeting her, so that you can just go for the lay ASAP. Its often your INITIAL INTUITIONS about a chick (when using good screens for what you want) that are MOST RELIABLE anyway. It took me a YEAR AND A HALF to figure out that my old AFC-LTR was a headcase, but using what I know now in terms of screens, I could have screened her within 2 minutes (using basic LSE tests and a cocky pickup style that LSE chicks cant stomach). So back to the topic of MID GAME, and SETTING THE FRAME. Women are adaptable and fluid. What does this MEAN??? Well when you roll up on the chick for the meet, and you detect that shes gone cold, you have to adapt by ASSERTING the frame that you want, for the duration of the interaction. If shes being difficult, do NOT try to LOGICALLY explain to her what youre doing. I remember when I first started ASF, I started EXPLAINING to a chick that I was meeting up with how all chicks would give it up for the right guy, and that she needed to get with the program, and shit like that. Or explaining why youre better than her boyfriend, or that this get-together really is a hookup and not just coffee like shes trying to say it is, or explaining WHY this was going to be a hookup and not a date, or explaining why you don’t spend $$$ on the first date (that last one is the most COMMON mistake of new PUAs verbally explaining why you wont spend $$$... hahah Ive done that, and its LAME ASS.. it will NEVER WORK). NEVER explain to the uncooperative chick what it is that you are doing. Just DO it. Make it just happen, despite the no-sex intentions that she had going in. Some basic strategies, on how to RE-ASSERT the hook-up/non-date frame: WHEN YOU SEE HER, INITIATE PLAYFUL KINO IMMEDIATELY: -run up and spin-hug her (credit no9) -roll up, take her right hand with your right hand, her left handwith your left hand (so your hands are x-crossed), and TWIRL her around -roll up, and shake hands, but pull your hand UP and TWIST your wrist, so she has to spin (credit Craig) -sneak up, and tap her wrong shoulder so she looks around for you.. then sort of bump her when s she sees you -steal something from her and make her wrestle you for it -flick something at her so she attacks you -mercy fight TRY TO TAKE HER TO AN EXCITING PLACE, THAT IS COST FREE.. NOT EVEN ONE CENT: -find a strip with sexy/outrageous clothes, and try them on and tease eachother and play-wrestle -meet her at a park, where you can play frisbee or rollerblade or iceskate, and you can tackle her -teach her one basic-simplistic mentalism illusion, go around FOOLING people with it -have a funny adventure together.. go around asking where you can find a cheap hotel as a joke (credit Dreamweaver I never actually tried this yet, but think it would be good for chicks with a CERTAIN type of outgoing personality) REMEMBER THAT TALKING ABOUT PROBLEMS IS NOT RAPPORT: Remember this ANALOGY if a chick is banging herself on the head with a HAMMER, and she is BLEEDING, and she says my head hurts, you can respond with either A) stop hitting yourself on the head with a hammer, and it will stop bleeding, or B) that sounds hard.. Im sure that youll find a way to make it stop hurting though.... ANYWAY, check THIS out.. - ALWAYS CHOOSE ANSWER B. -rapport is meant to establish a COMMON MODEL OF THE WORLD, NOT to establish you as her EMOTIONAL TAMPON. -NEVER try to get rapport with HER.. Keep ATTRACTING her, until SHE tries to get rapport. NEVER ask her questions about herself, until SHE intiates that conversation. Again, this is for HOT HSE chicks, NOT for LSE chicks, who you should just focus on telling them that they are trash, and that you wont judge them for it, so they should stick with YOU conforming to their self-loathing beliefs, etc etc.. -if she complains, BRIEFLY show some very light empathy, and CHANGE the subject BACK to attraction generating stuff (tickling, teasing, ANYTHING other than that crap).. AGAIN, NOT for LSE chicks or dumbass UGs, who you should just listen, tell them that theyre trash, and should stick with you.. thats ALL it takes for these LSE chicks.. NEVER LET THE DATE GO "LJBF-FEEL. IT ALWAYS HAS TO BE CHARGED IN SOME WAY. MINIMIZE QUIET-TIME: -try to avoid long drives before youve had sex, unless youre good at macking while driving -try to have her meet you somewhere, where you can start gaming her IMMEDIATELY
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146 -if youre just meeting her at a club, and she agrees to go home with you, dont let her get away from you or disengage her emotional states.. She will go back to her friends, be dissuaded, and flake. -if you pick her up at her house, attempt the NEWSPAPER INK CLOSE, explained later in this post. -the SECOND you see the interaction going QUIET or STALLING, tickle her, steal something, do ANYTHING to keep it charged at ALL COSTS. Stick your tongue out at her, -whatever-.. do SOMETHING -a GREAT strategy for when you STALL, is to use the awkward pause as a time to PHASE SHIFT. Just look DEEP into her eyes. Shell say what... whaaaaaat.., and you just look at her al confident and knowingly, then either project sexual state Gunwitch style, or run a phase shift ROUTINE. -as an absolute LAST RESORT, have some gimmicks prepared. AVOID THIS, but if its massively stalling, it can provide FODDER to neg her and tease her with, when she discloses certain things about herself throughout the course of the exercise. -**do things that CONFUSE her, such as saying she cant have you, and kissing her. Saying shes a DORK or DWEEB, and tickling her. USE FRACTIONATION TECHNIQUES: When you drop a mega-bomb pattern on her, step back and let the experience SOAK IN.. dont push her over the edge and make yourself come across UNGENUINE Constantly go BACK and FORTH be a STATE MANIPULATION MASTER.. a fucking PUPPET MASTER.. push her through states like a fucking PRO.. OBSERVE when shes at a boiling point, and do SOMETHING ELSE.. go back and forth, back and forth.. keep her on her toes.. dont be predictable and run a 2 hour patterning session, or 2 hours of C&F.. dont let yourself into a RUT of fluff talk.. go back and forth, left and right, up and down.. have STRATEGIES on how to do that.. MAKE IT IMPLICIT THAT SHE LOSES IF SHE PLAYS 'GAMES' - YOU DO NOT NEED HER. NOT STATED DIRECTLY, BUT MADE OBVIOUS: -if shes a party-girl type, then check out other chicks in front of her, without making any excuses for it. When she shit-tests you, DENY it in a FUNNY way, that is basically a shit-testing passing measure. It has to be FUNNY, and you dont take her accusations SERIOUSLY. -do funny things, like chatting up OTHER chicks making them LAUGH.. when you meet other chicks, do like 1000 little funny kisses on their hands.. mwa mwa mwa mwa mwa on some new chicks hand, so shell GIGGLE around you, and SOCIAL PROOF you for the chick youre with (for HSE chicks only).. Show her you are DESIRABLE, and have the ability to WALK. -Check HER out LIBERALLY, at points when its GOING WELL. So dont do it when shes still being uncooperative, but do it when shes starting to want you. Even check her out, and joke that she cant have you. -make it your TOP PRIORITY to enlist the help of PIVOTS, who can help you with particularly stubborn chicks.. Basically, what you want to do, is to do what the chicks who YOU wanted back your AFC days did to YOU, but in REVERSE. Have chicks that are ORBITERS, and who will do ANYTHING to keep your friendship. Talk to them like youre a FAG, but at the same time make them feel SAFE around you. Have female FRIENDS, who LOVE you and would do ANYTHING for you. When a chick is stubborn, have them roll up on you while youre out, and hug you and look all jealous at the chick that youre with. If you dont CURRENTLY have a pivot, then LJBF the next chick that you go out with, and start CULTIVATING a LEGIT friendship with her. You can also use her for CLUBS, so that when you PU chicks from clubs, they SAW direct EVIDENCE that she isnt the only chicks that you are in contact with. -if absolutely necessary use stuff, like CPowles shit about all my relationships start passionately to REFRAME the traditional-dating mentality. Make it clear that you want things NATURAL, and that you don’t appreciate society dictating your actions, and that you go in with NO AGENDA, and just let whatever happens happen.. does SHE have an agenda??? :) Follow this with tickling and such, to keep her IN STATE. Still, this is to be avoided, since it is PREFERABLE just to seem MYSTERIOUS and that you don't JUSTIFY yourself. Its actually better to just have a knowing look, and NOT REACT to her bullshit. Still, this doesnt always work, so fall back on these strategies. SET THE "YOU ARE IN CONTROL" FRAME, BY TAKING AWKWARD PAUSES, AND STARING AT HER DEEPLY, ETC: -dont ask her for her permission on ANYTHING.. if you are ALPHA shell appreciate it.. if youre BETA, shell TEST you on it, and you have to NOT REACT -at certain points, just sit there and LOOK at her.. let the ENDORPHINS run through both of you -strike while the iron is HOT.. NEVER pass up on a HOT MOMENT, or the chicks limbic brain will be DISENGAGED -take her places without telling her where youre going.. good, because when you bring her somewhere isolated, the PRECEDENT that you dont say anything will have been set. -Again, ALWAYS phase shift when the time is right.. NEVER be afraid to phase shift.. REMEMBER that is in IN FACT, -INAPPROPRIATE- and TACKY- not to phase shift when the time is right. GO IN FOR THE KILL WHEN SHE IS PRIMED OR RISK LOSING ALL YOUR PROGRESS. HAVE FUN WHILE USING THESE SORTS OF TACTICS: -REMEMBER, that if using these tactics is not FUN for you, that you will come off as LAMEASS and INCONGRUENT. -this stuff is meant to be FUN to use, because chicks react positively to it.. if its not fun, then make it a PRIORITY to find a style that
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147 IS. -dont be a TRY-HARD, or chicks will DETECT it, and assume that you have an AGENDA, and that you are not GENUINE, which is a massive TURN OFF for them. SO REMEMBER: Keep the interaction TIGHT and CHARGED. Either focusing on attracting until phase shift, or attracting until she wants RAPPORT, giving that to her, and then phase shifting. Your goal is to get her to her BOILING POINT. Stick a fork in me, Im done. Using this kind of MENTALITY that Im NOT being screened by her, but rather just doing my own thing, I can almost ALWAYS get with a chick Im interacting with. The problem for ME, and my SP, is actually picking the chick up in the first place, so I can get a CLEAN SHOT at her. But so long as I have a CLEAR SHOT, I can use this kind of stuff to close no probs.. Thats why I was able to PU the Cosmo Model on the airplane. Because I had her ONE on ONE, on the plane. In a club, I doubt I could have gotten ANYWHERE, given my current skillsets. I can even get with my profs, my teaching assistants, and any chick that gets left alone with me for whatever reason. Because I EXPLOIT having a CLEAR SHOT, since being ALONE together FORCES her to live in ONE of our frames. Since my frame is DOMINANT, she will be sucked in MINE. The KEY, is to keep it in YOUR FRAME. Do NOT succumb to the DATING FRAME, or you will 99% NOT close the chick that night (or even that month). You should SENSE the dating frame when its occurring, by her Im not sure yet composure, and sort of evaluating / NOT swept off her feet thing, often evident by lack of kino and her not leaning into you. You should always be doing SOMETHING to bring yourself closer to your goal. Teasing, touching, subtly demonstrating your excellence, connecting deeply in rapport, projecting a sexual state, leading, playing hard to get, confusing, playfighting, conspiring together, stimulating, pausing awkwardly to show your absolute comfort in your own reality, having fun, etc etc etc.. SOMETHING that is moving you to the goal. Eventually, when youre GOOD, youll do these things NATURALLY, without much thought. Im PART WAY there, so I still have to do them CONSCIOUSLY oftentimes. But a lot of them I just do NATURALLY now. Now if you are a HARDCORE SKILLED PUA, you could even take them outfor dinner and PAY FOR IT, and STILL get laid.. Just so long as you keep YOUR frame the whole time. This makes it MUCH more difficult, but so long as you keep YOUR frame (as described above), the chick will ADAPT to whats put out, and still do what you want. DICTATE the frame, and the chick will ADAPT to it. You RESULTS will be dictated by what you PUT OUT THERE. Suck the chick into YOUR reality, and she will be more inclined to adapt to YOUR frame. Remember that chicks ADAPT, and that you are FUCKING UP if things arent moving forward in one way or another. At the same time, having fun IS moving things forward, so dont be PARANOID that youre not. Having fun isnt something that you FAKE. Its something that you DO. Put out the RIGHT frame, and shell be into DIRTY SEX, and THREESOMES, and SEXUAL CONNECTIONS, and all sorts of EROTIC type shit.. Put out the WRONG frame, and shell be into SCREENING you and DATING and NINETEEN-FIFTIES type shit. She will ADAPT to what you put out, so put out the RIGHT vibe. She will APPRECIATE it. TD: Rapport Sequencing: How I often run rapport After I convey value, I move to building rapport.. This is like a coal-train that has to be fueled.. I pump them more and more with rapport.. However, unlike conveying higher-value, I try to EASE her into it. This results in not coming off as one of those guys who wants to be "deep" *all the time*, and disarms any thoughts that she has that I'm messing with her, since the convo builds and builds.. It's very natural that way, and I also enjoy it more myself. Initiate playful kino, non-stop, so that the kino boundary is SET as NORMAL. Normalize the kino, or even play the kiss-game variation early in the C&F phase of the sarge (not relating to this post, as this is the earlier stuff). 1) light rapport 2) medium rapport 3) heavy rapport LIGHT RAPPORT: -short vital stats thread (name/age/work/school/background) -upbeat stories (friends / cute anecdotes / feel good stories / jokes / humour / show that you can be easy going) -fun reads such as Ring Finger pattern, if done more as a routine than a nuclear pattern (RF pattern can also be a nuclear bomb used in heavy rapport, if done don-juanish, not just out of fun-interest) MEDIUM RAPPORT: -childhood regressions, how they felt -finding commonalities -exploring philosophies -CUBE -insecurities / vulnerabilities HEAVY RAPPORT: -YES Ladder -PREV (pre-researched EV, triusms, etc.see separate post) -rather than E.V., I study the female psyche, and use the 'truisms' idea to discuss ideas that convey that I am the perfect man.. I am not like other guys, and convey that the problems that they had in past relationships won't happen with me, through the 'truisms' discussion -Instant connection pattern / transition to Love vs. Attraction pattern -STACK and associate types of connections.. create massive yes- ladder, and then get her saying 'yes, yes, yes' to all your comments about connections, until you can draw the similarity between PHYSICAL and EMOTIONAL connections -REFRAME physical connections as simply a DIFFERENT brand of connection, but still a *LEGITIMATE* connection. -natural woman pattern -implicit idea that you and her are *ON* comes across, playful kino escalates -SEDUCE.
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148 **Now if I can't close the deal right there (logistical), then I REWIND and go back to LIGHT RAPPORT. This is VERY important, because if you leave her as your last conversation being all "deep" and shit, then she feels weirded out by it since she feels like she has to RE-INITIATE this mentally- draining deep convo the next time that she sees you. So the solution is to go back to just fluff talk for a few minutes before parting ways, so that she that it is natural when you see eachother again.
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RAPPORT – AUTOPILOT RESPONSE SOME THOUGHTS (SKIP IF YOU WANT CONTENT): If you want to develop a master skillset, try to go out at least 4 nights a week. The other 3 use for all your day2s and phone work. Allocate 3-4 hours per day to this, and don’t slack with afterbar food and waiting in lineups. Otherwise 3 hours becomes 8, and you won’t have time to live the rest of your life. Try to find a wing who you like that you can debrief with and share constructive criticism with during post-game debrief. Write down all your best lines and post like a madman so that you’ll internalize all your best moves. Get a small digital camera so you can periodically videotape yourself in set and see how you come across. Think about the subtle details of how you come across, not just the material. Consider what you’d think of yourself, if the two of you were to meet. :) Because of extensive field work, my game has continued to improve at a phenomenal rate. My skillset is very noticably stronger from last month, and last month is was stronger than the month before. Guys who saw me 3 months ago wouldn’t believe the difference. It is very noticable. I’m smoother and more laid back. I’m faster on my feet and my situational reaction times and repertoire of tools has improved. I am at the top of my game right now, but with the stuff I’m working on I’ll look back in 6 months and wonder how I even got by with the skillset I have right now. I have rapport and connection sequencing that I’m working out, that will make it as automatic as my attraction game. I’m testing and re-testing various different sequencing, and going out day and night. Anyway, here is the latest thing I’ve been doing, that has increased my potency in set. AUTOPILOT RAPPORT TRIGGERING: When you’re in set, you’re gaming the girls and you’re speaking and acting differently than how you’d act to your best friend. This is obvious - if you don’t, you won’t generate attraction. It’s not that kind of interaction. There’s a different energy to it. A platonic interaction usually yields a platonic response, because its autopilot. Sometimes a set goes bad, or sometimes you need to move it along for an extraction, or sometimes an obstacle gets freaked out by the level of IOIs her friend is giving out to someone she just met. Oftentimes, you just need to pump more buying temperature, and the problem corrects itself. Most guys make the mistake of trying to logically convince a girl to escalate when they’re met with resistance. For example, they’ll ask for a phone number, and she’ll say ‘no’. He’ll keep trying to get it. Or the same for a kiss or an extraction. “C’mon. C’mon. It’ll be fine”, etc etc.. This is inherently flawed, and goes against the current and only yields more resistance. Instead, back up a bit, and re-game. Pretend that the rejection never even happened. Don’t even acknowledge it. Act like you didn’t hear it, and move on to continue gaming. Pump buying temperature more, and then try again later. It will work. That’s why you need a repertoire of stories that you know will pump their state. The second you get resistance you just throw up more stories, and the girls get so giddy that their ASD drops. You guys have read stories about me pulling girls from their boyfriends, or last week climbing over a fence to pull a 2set. Obviously these kinds of things throw up resistance, but if you have the material to re-initiate state, you can reliably count on it to initiate state without worrying about contingencies. They forget what you tried, and because their emotions say “This feels good”, they just go with it. I always roll with more material, and cut off threads that aren’t helping me. I just plow through and ignore all resistance or social convention. My only goal “Initiate state. Initiate state. Initiate state. Escalate.” But at the same time, sometimes the girls catch on to this. You have attraction but trust has gone down because they can’t figure out how you’re doing it. Other times they get mad at you for something you said or for something that’s happening, and just gaming them more won’t work. Other times they get freaked out that you took them home too fast - whatever. The solution is to exploit their autopilot responses. Think to yourself, “If someone acts x-way towards them, how would they act? How can I act, to get them to react in a way that benefits me?” What I’ll do, is drop all game and go full rapport. This is a form of fractionation, but it goes deeper than that. For example, I’ll pull a set back to my house, and they’ll start freaking out (because I did it too fast, and didn’t play a solid game). They’ll start freaking, and I’ll just say “Hey, what’s up guys. You guys are awesome, I’m glad we met and got to hang out. I’m thinking of going to bed actually, but I had an awesome time tonight. Do you guys like this place?” Or anything. It doesn’t matter. The point is that I drop all game and just act normal. Also, if its not penetrating, I’ll say “Yeah, I’m having such an awesome time tonight. You guys look a little freaked out, and really I want to hang with you tommorow, so I think you guys should go so that we can hang out later. You guys were all having fun before but you’re not totally comfortable right now so we could just catch up later.” Oftentimes, the girls see that you know the deal, and they’ll get totally comfortable. Like you’re addressing the negative emotions that they’re getting, and they’ll just totally open up. Also, I’ll sometimes use reality pacing shit. Like I’ll open a set, and they’ll look freaked out that some random dude is just talking to them. So I back up a foot or two, and say “Oh woops. I’m just totally chatty right now because I’m waiting for my friends. It’s like all weird though..” (and I’ll make hand motions showing personal spacing between us, to imply like I know they felt like I was infringing). I don’t do this in an apologizing way whatsoever. It isn’t an apology. It’s totally neutral, like how friends talk to eachother, so the
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150 WORDS are not congruent with social projection. Like an apology would have certain vocal inflections that go with it. Certain ways you’d talk. But I do the reality pacing in a way where its like I’m talking about a cool painting that we’re both looking at. That way, on a logical level they can calm themselves down, but on an emotional level I’m not triggering any channels that lower my value or break attraction. What’s interesting, is that the girls will often bust out laughing (because their brains can’t process what’s happening and you’re releasing various emotions), and they start shooting IOIs. I’ll talk about this in some field reports. THE POINT: Recognize that certain social behaviours will yield very specific social responses. Ignore social convention and don’t be afraid to say or do things that make NO SENSE whatsoever in an interaction. Focus only on getting the response that you want, and flipping the switch that will yield the autopilot response. This is no different than saying to a girl “We should only be friends” and then kissing/biting/sucking her neck. You’re saying one thing on a logical channel to disarm resistance, but on an emotional channel you’re doing things to increase her state. The same goes for wacking her with straight friendly rapport type vocal inflections and facial expressions, while addressing legit concerns of creepiness. Then immediately SWAPPING back to attract game as soon as the emotional clog has been removed and continue the pickup as per normal procedure. This shit is kind of obscure, so I’ll post some FRs on it at some point.
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KINO TESTS An interesting phenomenon is that when you touch girls who like you, they always go out of their way to touch back.. It seems to be some sort of subconscious mating mechanism.. When I go around the club high-fiving chicks, the ones who want me will ALWAYS try to clasp my hand and keep me there.. I have literally gone up to a chick, high-fived her, and when she clasped my hand I started tonguing her down (before I’ve even said one word to her).. This has happened a few times now. If I caveman a chick, she’ll tickle me back and shit like that. I pulled a go-go dancer from Guvernment one night with Twentysix, Papa, and No9, just by tickling this chick (It was too loud to talk, so I said “fuck this!” and just started going caveman on every chick that passed me, until I pulled). She tickled back, and knowing that the kino test had been POSITIVE, I just literally DRAGGED her out of the club, barely haven spoken a word to her. Literally, I tickled and DRAGGED her from the club. Her friends weren’t there obviously (massive warehouse club). She loved it. Point is though, how did I know I could get away with it? Or the insta-tongue-downs? Just by KINO TESTS. When I do kino opener, sometimes I’ll roll up on girls and ask a quick question, then say “you’re my new best friend” and wrap my arms around her.. if she’s digging me she’ll almost always wrap her arm back around me, even if she’s in shock for a second and has to do it after when its not really timed properly.. Chicks will also do weird things, like if you hold her hands, and turn around and drop your hands, she’ll keep her hands RIGHT THERE in the hopes that you’ll re-initiate the kino. Have you ever been in tightly packed car beside a chick, and she gets out for a sec, but you stay PERFECTLY STILL in hopes that she’ll come back to that position? Or maybe you had your leg against hers in a lecture class, and she got up to go to the washroom for a minute. You kept your leg right there in the hopes that it would go back in place.. (never does either dammit!) This is the kind of stuff I’m talking about. Another good test is to clasp hands mercy fight style, and then lower them waist level and see if she keeps it going. Or butting heads softly/gently, and see if she leans in or not. ***A really interesting thing that I’ve also noticed is girls UNWILLINGNESS to displace themselves physically in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER until they are into you (usually attraction, but sometimes also with deep rapport). So basically, you may notice stuff like if you try to do the spin-maneuvre on a chick who thinks badly of you, she’ll refuse to spin. If you say to a chick “your arms are crossed.. you look uptight”, and she isn’t attracted yet, she’ll REFUSE to uncross them.. Literally, she’ll keep saying “I’m cold” and she won’t uncross them for ANYTHING. Same thing when you suggest moving venues. If they don’t like you, it will NOT happen. Chicks just won’t displace themselves for guys they don’t like. If you try to make a physical move too early in the sarge, you have fucked up the sequence, and the sarge often ends. HOWEVER, sometimes girls will mumble shit like “not yet”, or they might decline a #close or something, but STILL keep flirting and talking to you. That seems to be a subconscious way of saying “I’m not wet enough yet, but if you keep sarging me I may be there soon”.
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KINO ESCALATION This shit I’ve known a long time, but just watching Mystery in action again last weekend I was paying particular attention to it, because I wanted to have a really clear cut second opinion before I posted about it. Kino escalation is something that’s key to pickups. As noted in the past, I don’t like pushy kino, because girls lockup as a result and it telegraphs too much interest. Rather, I use it as a reward, which I think is so important. In the past, I’ve used no kino whatsoever, and relied on verbal gaming to get them to kino ME, and then reciprocated as a reward for things they did. This got them in a frame where they were chasing me. Like a little doggie left home alone, who has to push the “feed me” button. Pavlovian conditioning. After hanging out with Commander Zap in London, he mentioned to me “I’d be in kino by now”. I thought I’d give it a try and post back some results. What I’ve been doing is using what girls would find to be FUN KINO, in order to escalate. So for example, I’ll put out my hands palms up, and then pull her in. I always pull HER in, rather than invade her personal space (props Mys). I also never use invasive kino, like placing my fingers in her line of sight which will make her flinch. If my hands go into her facial area, I backup with one foot so that it gives the illusion of comfort. My buddy always says you can always stroke the rabbit to calm it before you snap its neck.. :) “FUN kino” is like kino that she’ll like, but can justify to herself aren’t sexual even though they are. She’ll THINK they’re not, until its too late. So anyway, my favourite types of “fun kino” are like (most of these I learned from CHICKS): • • • • • • • • •
getting her to scratch your back, and then scratch hers. So like you hug and then go “ummm, baby scratch my back for a sec” and then scratch hers also. put your fingers at the back of her wasteline, and then run them up with walking fingers HARD against her back, all the way up to her neck and then grab her traps (muscles connecting her neck to her shoulders) and massage them down (this is honestly one of my best moves, so if you don’t get it post because I use this non-stop) hand massaging biting (as a funny joke) hair pulling at the back and pull her neck back and do a joke bite. hair stroking, or head massaging encorporate mini-cold-reads into a massage like “hey this is tense.. this means that you’re x-mini-cold-read”, or doing actual REAL cold reads off of things you’re doing to her physically. if she’s sitting on a chair, sit on the floor facing her and hug her knees and rest your head on her lap. If isolated, you could later choose to pull her down and lock legs around eachothers waists. if sitting, get her to lean back against you between your legs in a V-shape (so she’s in between the V). This gives you massive maneuvrability to breath into her ears or rub your nose on her neck or play with her hair or even braid it or something.
***IN ALL CASES, BE THE ONE TO END IT FIRST*** ***CONTINUALLY SHOW WILLINGNESS TO DISCONTINUE AND RE-INITIATE OR BAIT HER TO RE-INITIATE SHORTLY AFTER*** That will make her take you seriously, since she was getting gradual rewards, rather than you obviously TRYING TO SEDUCE HER. Girls can always tell when you’re trying to seduce them, rather than just chilling and enjoying the interaction and seeing where it goes in a natural/genuine way.
KEY is that in solid game we use tonguedowns and makeouts as a COMFORT BUILDER. This goes back to why I first said that you have to go “rapport” (now I call it comfort building) after you go C&F. If you go pure C&F, the chick will flake on you if you don’t lay her same night. The reason is that she is not COMFORTABLE hanging with you for a day2 if you went pure C&F. Why? It’s all related to BUYING TEMPERATURE. Girls feel uncomfortable meeting agian, because they’re scared that you’ll take the same liberties with them when their volume knob was up, but now they’ve come out of state and its down, but 99% of guys don’t understand that they need to turn it back up before they can get back to where they were at the initial venue. Girls will even show up for get-togethers with guys they aren’t THAT attracted to, just because they’re SOCIAL. The main cause of flaking for PUAs is DISCOMFORT. This is because guy’s attraction mechanism is like a light switch - on or off - binary - 0 or 1. For girls its like a VOLUME KNOB. It goes up slowly, and they’ll PERMIT more escalation as the volume knob goes up. I use the last paragraph as a ROUTINE, except that I SWITCH the guys and girls part, and say that I need “comfort and trust and connection before I can concede to a girl that I’m attracted to, and for my friends to approve also, so please slow down and be patient or I’m going to go dance with my wingman”... This is a GREAT routine IMO, because it shows in a humorous way that you understand girls and their attraction mechanisms and that I won’t violate them by escalating too quickly so she can feel free to get all emotional since I won’t abuse of it -> ummmm yeah.. :) I really like the concept of basically just explaining buying temperature and
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153 girlcode to girls as a routine, but in a funny way, because they enjoy it and it tells them things about themselves. But most importantly, it lets them know that you understand women, and that you’re “in the know” So anyway, back to comfort building. As IJJJJI recently posted (THANKS for this because guys keep emailing me about this and I hadn’t thought of a such a good way to describe it), comfort building is not making the rest of the pickup BORING. It’s just ADDING A DIMENSION, which in this case is comfort. Yes, you drop the C&F stuff where you won’t give her your real name or where you’re shit testing the fuck out of her, but you don’t drop the charge of the interaction. You’re still cocky and you’re still funny, you’re just not being a fucking dick who would be incongruent if he were to want her # and to meet up again. And of course you’re adding the DIMENSION of comfort, so that she can logically backwards rationalize the feelings that she has as a result of your C&F. Kissing IS comfort building because the FOCUS of comfort building is you want the girl to feel comfortable seeing you again. If you’ve had physical contact, then the girl understands that you have PHYSICAL COMPATIBILITY, so she doesn’t have to feel nervous about the first kiss when she meets again. Basically girls flake most often NOT because they aren’t attracted enough, but because they just don’t want the emotion of discomfort. If you’ve ever #closed a superhottie who you didn’t have the best rapport with, and felt nervous to call her, THIS is the feeling that I’m talking about. Except that GIRLS won’t actually push through it, because they follow their emotions whereas guys are more inclined to push through fear to get to the goalline. So upping kino is great, but only in a way where its NON-PLAYER KINO. ***NON-PLAYER-KINO*** I don’t know/care if thats a good term (probably not), but I just want to focus on it to distinguish fool’s mate “get her horny enough to leave” kino, that the “club makeout guys” use, and the kino that actual cool trustworthy classy potential boyfriend type guys use. I don’t know fully how to explain the difference in text, but just using common sense. So the program is she does something good, you escalate kino. For example, hold her hands. See if she’s comfortable. KEEP REINITIATING this until she’s comfortable. Like keep trying to get her comfortable with one level, then disengage, then re-engage a level higher. Get her comfortable with that, and continue. Use freeze-outs to punish for unwillingness to get with the program. That means FAKING LOCKUP. Then when she re-initiates, try again. Keep doing this progressively all the way to the lay, also using full takeaways and trying again later as a plan-B. Anyway, alot of rambly content here, but hopefully something of use can be derived from it.
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CAVEMANNING, BODYLANGUAGE, AND PUA CYCLES If any of you guys remember back to this time last year when I posted “Operation Mayhem” stuff, you’ll recall that I was huge on cavemanning. Actually I spent about a month or two straight learning how to walk up on girls I hadn’t even spoken to, and start making out with them and cavemanning them. It was funny, and worked well on college. If you subcommunicate the right things (bodylanguage, tonality, and the reactions of people around you), you can get away with this stuff no problem. It’s funny shit. Nowadays I have actually dropped caveman from my repetoire and find that its kind of amateur. I think that its a cycle. There’s many cycles in PUA development, and here are a few: 123-
AFC: spineless emotional tampon, uses friendship as emotional blackmail in hopes to get some ass RAFC: not afraid anymore to convey desires as a man, doesn’t supplicate anymore PUA: conveys active disinterest, tries to push girls away or even into the friendship zone
Funny, how (1)and (3) are so SIMILAR, and yet in (1) the girl RUNS from you and in (3) the girl the girl frantically CHASES you like a desperate chick-AFC. Likewise with routines, as CRAIGSD220 said when I was in San Diego: 1234-
AFC: asks “what’s your name” and tries to qualify himself in all his boring logical conversations EARLYRAFC: uses routines as something better to talk about LATERAFC: gets good at having great natural conversations, and the routines are now detectably canned PUA: gets so good, that the routines are like NUCLEAR AMMO in the already super tight conversation
Anyway, the same went with cavemanning. It was direct, and was an improvement, but now I find that I’m working to SURPASS the best natural/confident PUAs in the venue, and hit my own level. The cool guys in the club aren’t afraid to go for it, but the coolEST guys in the club have SO MUCH on their hands that they are DISINTERESTED in anything short of the BEST. And even the snobbiest HB10 is always afraid that she’s not the best, which is why active disinterest and negs work. For guys who believe that HB10s can pickup on this game and aren’t impressed by it, they haven’t seen a top PUA in action. Active disinterest works for a variety of reasons, among which are that its a NATURAL mechanism that girls have to sexually validate themselves at ALL TIMES. For guys who have been indirect for a while, and had the girls begging to be with them, and went for rapport only to find the girls RAN, this is the validation mechanism at work. In many cases, the SECOND the girl is sexually re-validated, you are BLOWN OUT. Girls need to be sexual validation at all times, because on an emotional level they know that if they lost that, they would not survive. (haa, not actually true, but its how they FEEL) This is the SCREENING vs. CHASING mentality at work also. It changes the mental processes, same as in SALES. Anyway, having laid that down, I want to write up a bit on cavemanning and powerful bodylanguage. CAVEMANNING & KINO: Something that I realized is really key in my game is that I give girls the opportunity to INITIATE kino, rather than being the one to initiate it myself. **KINO IS AN IOI There are several reasons that people in the community adopted KINO as a tactic. Among them were studies which stated: • •
a sample group watching several photographs were asked to determine who was the alpha in each picture, and they always picked the guy who was taking up the space of the other guy (like he was touching his shoulder or something). So KINO conveys alphaness. in a library, a clerk touched the hands of people one day as she would hand back their library cards, and on the day she’d touch people, a higher percentage of people would report back a pleasant interaction. So KINO generates good feelings.
Now to me there is a problem with this, as it correlates to MY PERSONAL game. I can’t speak for other guys’ game, but this is how it correlates to my style. GIVING A GIRL KINO IS AN IOI. When a girl touches you, you know that she somewhat wants you. So when you touch a girl, you are coming off like you want her. The jig is up - she knows you want her. Again, this is a CERTAIN TYPE of kino, not all types. Playful kino or pushing her away is not what I’m talking about here. Also there are guys I’ve met who are just SO CONGRUENT with kino, that it does NOT come off as wanting something, and it works for them well. So again this is why I say repeatedly that this is for MY PERSONAL style, and that this is the result that I get, while others may get a different result. Now for guys who are coming from a position of being AFCs, again, learning to apply KINO is CYCLICAL.
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155 I remember when I first read the manuals on this board, and they said things like “initiate kino..” or “you ARE in kino, aren’t you dumbass?” and cool shit like that. This helped me a LOT at first, because back then I was so pathetically beta that the IDEA of touching a woman that I wasn’t dating already was TERRIFYING. I remember when I first started touching girls when I’d talk to them, I’d get a rush of excitement from it because I couldn’t believe I was getting away with it. Like I’d brush a girl’s eyelash off her face, and I thought I was James Bond or something. So this is something all new guys have to go through. Getting physically and sexually comfortable with themselves and other people. But at this point, I’m realizing more and more that when you look around in a club, EVERY DUDE IN THERE IS GIVING KINO. By giving a girl KINO, you’re throwing yourself into the subcategory of guys who lean in and touch without the girl earning it. The venue is filled up with drunken guys all over, and it can come across not as confident, but as BOLD (aka: drunk or just venuerelated-confidence) That said, KINO is a HUGE part of my game. Particularly, 123456-
caveman as a DECLOGGER a reward for impressing me kino PINGING (discussed in a recent post I wrote) a playful C&F routine, like pushing her away or spins or high-5s or thumb wrestling something I can use on the FAT OBSTACLES to keep them happy and ignore the target escalation in LATE GAME and phase shifting 1)
CAVEMAN AS A DECLOGGER In game, any error that you follow up with EMOTIONAL RELEVANCE is immediately forgiven. For example, if you approach, that can be an IOI to the chick. But if you open well, you’re in ANYWAY. Likewise, if she gets angry at you, but you answer with something C&F, its forgiven. CAVEMAN is the SAME. For example, I may hold back KINO from a girl for a LONG TIME. This causes her endorphins and chemicals to BUILD AND BUILD. REMEMBER that when you neg or tease a girl, and she kinos you, *SHE IS TRYING TO FUCKING TOOL YOUR DUMB AFC ASS* Not only is she re-validated instantly if you kino back.. There’s more to it. If you kino her back, the emotional chemicals that you shot through her get DISPLACED and then feel normal again. This is like when have sex or snuggle with a chick. You keep CHANGING POSITIONS and it feels more intense and better. SAME as why we get bored of sex with the same chicks over and over. We can’t get the emotions and chemicals from it anymore, because we are DE-SENSITIZED. If you have sex with your girl 3 times a day for a week, you won’t enjoy it as much as if you don’t see her for a week and then fuck her. It’s all chemical shit. So for girls, you see them touching eachother alot. They intuitively understand emotional reactions and they are displacing eachothers emotions. It’s all pretty ridiculous from our perspective, but to them it all makes perfect sense. Remember that KINO has this context, and that there is alot being subcommunicated with the act of touching. DE-CLOGGING WITH CAVEMAN. Say that a girl is in state, but you just CAN’T seem to escalate. She just isn’t biting on the active disinterest stuff. But at the same time, you KNOW that she’s in state. What to do? Solution - CAVEMAN HER ASS! :) The reason is that if she has enough emotional chemicals built up in her, when you caveman her it will be the BEST feeling of her entire life. She won’t stop it, and then she’ll BACKWARDS RATIONALIZE that she wanted it. I’ve had girls I slept with tell me that when I forced them to kiss me, it was the most sexual thing that they’ve ever had done to them. haa, from an average looking 5’9 fucking EX-DWEEB.. NICE. But why? Because I played on her states effectively. So this is all buying temperature and escalation related. Cavemanning is something I use to DECLOG a pipeline that isn’t flowing properly. I ATTEMPT all other measures FIRST, but if it isn’t working for me then I just go caveman, and progress the pickup from there. You see this in John Wayne movies, where the girl is freaking out, and he pins her to the wall and starts kissing her. She struggles and struggles, and then let’s go and just falls in love with him again and everything is FINE. haaa, those motherfuckers KNEW how to interact with women on an emotional level back then, before the women’s movement came in and fucked us all up. This isn’t sexist either. Women LOVE guys who do this. It doesn’t mean disrespect women. It means that sometimes they want you to help them emotionally, and not annoy them with over-explanation that has no relevance to them. If the chick HONESTLY still pushes for logic, then fine. But until she’s made it CLEAR, I assume its emotional help that she wants, from a guy who she’s sexually involved with (aka: I’m not her BUDDY)
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KINO AS A REWARD: Now given that kino is also something that shoots her with a displacement of chemicals, I also will give her little shots as rewards, to get her into Pavlovian conditioning mode. This is PUNISHMENT/REWARD type stuff. If she does something that is obviously in attempt to impress me, I go “OMG” and grab her hands. Watch as she looks like you just fed her a doggy-treat. Yeah, I’m a bastard for this, but the chick
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156 really like it. Likewise, I use freeze-outs. It’s all emotional related. I’m just pumping them through states. That’s ALL I care about. So if a girl tries to impress you, consider shooting her a little doggy treat (kino) as a reward. Don’t let it linger though. Then continue the pickup. 3)
KINO PINGING: Kino pinging is also something that escalates. It’s like little “synching” shots that you give eachother. You use it on EMOTIONAL HIGH POINTS, and you’ll notice that girls look like they’re massively enfatuated with you when you do this.
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PLAYFUL KINO: I use PLAYFUL KINO to reap the SAME REWARDS as standard kino, but without giving away that I’m interested. Playful kino conveys that you’re sexually comfortable and confident to impose on other peoples’ personal space, but WITHOUT giving the girl an undeniably concrete IOI. So IMO, it sort of has the best of both worlds, and its also fun for girls and great in group sets.
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FAT OBSTACLES: Sometimes I hug and kiss the peer group, to keep them entertained and in love with me. This is less common, but I’ve done it and its worked. ‘nuff said.
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LATE GAME ESCALATION: Girls take on average 4-7 hours to get to a lay-ready buying temperature. At THIS POINT I’m definetely using KINO to the max. Why? Because they’re READY FOR IT.
Thoughts on KINO: For girls, getting KINO’d by guys can feel really CREEPY. Think to when a huge motherfucker touched you or grabbed you in the past, and he was so physically imposing that it kind of vexed you out. This is how it feels for girls with guys they don’t trust yet. A huge physically imposing force, making them feel vulnerable. Now at the same time, SOME GIRLS LOVE THIS. They GET OFF on this feeling. So use common sense and don’t take everything in this post dogmatically, because I haven’t had time to cover every angle.
POWERFUL BODYLANGUAGE: To me, I think that the key word here is UNHESITANT. Let me think of some examples from the top of my head. AT A BAR: GUY1: Sees girls up at the bar. He goes up and orders a drink. He sits there and looks over at them once or twice. Then he opens. GUY2: Sees girls up at the bar. Goes up on a good angle, doesn’t lean in or face them too much, and opens. He FALSE-TIME CONSTRAINTS and sits down, and continues the pickup. In the CONTINGENCY that there is no seat available, he KNOWS he can’t just stand there, so he kino-pings the hot girl with his hand (this is a trick, they NEVER decline a kino-ping if you’re doing well), and gets her to reach out his hand, then pulls her from her chair and sits on it and laughs at her playfully. He lets her sit on his lap AFTER she qualifies herself to him. AT THE COUCHES OR TABLE: GUY1: Walks around thinking what to say. He leans down for the girls to hear him, and stands there talking in an uncomfortable position. GUY2: Walks up sideways like he’s about to leave, opens. He then either ways for THEM to ask HIM a question, and THEN sits down as if it was an invitation, OR he does a FALSE-TIME-CONSTRAINT, sits and continues gaming. Notice that in ALL CASES, the FALSE TIME CONSTRAINT is what allows you to DISARM the emotion of “is he going to stay forever”, and also gets them thinking of ways to make you STAY. The key to powerful bodylanguage, IMO, not hesitating, and not being afraid to impose on people’s personal space, as long as its in a tactful NON-BOLD way. (ie: not in a way that you’re obviously TRYING too hard to be alpha, whe you’re not). GIRLS DETECT PREMEDITATED APPROACHES A MILE AWAY. AVOID THIS B JUST LOOKING SPONTANEOUS, AND FALSE-TIME-CONTRAINING. USE MYSTERY’S 3-SECOND
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GETTING HER TO INITIATE KINO: Girls LOVE seducing guys, and if you guys haven’t realized it yet, MOST sex that occurs is initiated by GIRLS. Think back to all your AFC relationships. Usually the girl got interested in you, and then eventually after fumbling for long enough you went out and things went from there. Likewise in a club, the goodlooking guys roll in the club, girls giggle and get hyper around them, and it goes from there. SEDUCTION IS MORE COMMONLY DONE BY WOMEN. This is because they are more COMFORTABLE with that. So the key is to leave yourself out as BAIT, and get them to SEDUCE YOU. That doesn’t mean don’t lead. What it means is to ALTERNATE between getting her to game you as much as possible, and then leading her at times where its needed. For me, I don’t try to KINO girls into horniness early in the game. I try to VERBALLY GAME them into EMOTIONAL AROUSAL, so that they’ll try to kino ME, in order to re-displace all the emotions I gave them. I tease them and give them a LITTLE BIT of kino to keep them coming back for more, but mostly I just game them verbally. Then, when it comes time to extract, I throw out my arm for THEM to take it. KEY: Rather than grabbing a girls’ arm, just throw out yours for HER to take it. If she’s at buying temperature, she’ll grab it like its a kid grabbing a candy-bar. Notice that you can use stuff like high-5s as KINO-PING-TESTS. If a girl is at high buying temperature, and you “high-5” her, she’ll practically EXPLODE trying to high-5 you. It will be like the most ridiculously enthusiastic high-5 of her life. The same goes for just placing your hands out PALMS UP, and then waiting for her to put her hands on yours. So for the punishment/reward stuff, rather than grabbing HER, I just throw out my hands palms up, and she grabs THEM. Then I squeeze, and she squeezes back all GIDDY AS HELL. Then I let go, or decide to hold on, depending on her state. In terms of powerful bodylanguage and LEADING, you game her verbally, get her totally emotionally aroused, and then throw out an OPPORTUNITY for her to kino you. It’s just like you initiating kino, but she’s COMFORTABLE with this approach. She will LOVE this. It conveys that you won’t make her uncomfortable at any point, and that you won’t be like 99% of all other guys who are pushy and break her state by escalating without testing the waters first. Girls LOVE sex, but they want to feel comfortable. This is one of the major reasons for flaking. Guys don’t “get” buying temperature and escalation. So a girl kisses a guy in a club, but doesn’t want to meet up with him again the next day because she knows that he’ll LOGICALLY take the same physical-liberties with her that he did the night before. Like, she LIKES the guy, but she feels worried that he’ll think that because they made-out on the dance floor that he’ll try to make out with her the second he sees her, without escalating her emotional arousal first. So in terms of leading, just game, wait for the signal of buying temperature (maybe her qualifying herself, often other shit also), and then give a KINO-OP to her. At the same time, this is in CONTRAST to “caveman as a de-clogger”. I may be planning to pull a girl from the club, and I jut out my arm for her to take but she doesn’t do it. What do I do? Either I re-game a bit (if I think that’s necessary), or I recognize it as something that won’t be overcome with verbal game, and I go CAVEMAN DRAG STYLE. MANY girls NEED to be cavemanned out of a club. They NEED this logical de-clogging. Still, primary modus operandi is game her, provide kino opportunity for her, and then lead and escalate. GAME = social value, emotionally arouse, pass tests, trust, escalate, phase shift to sexual, close.
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ROUTINE THEORY Routines/tactics have RANGES. There are certain levels of arousal that a routine works best at. When internalizing a new peice, I "RANGE" it. That is my process. I'll say to Papa, "I'm ranging x-routine". First sarge, I try it at x-buying-temperature. Second sarge, I'll try it at y-buying-temperature. Third, another one. I try it early, I try it late. I see after several sarges how soon and how late I can run it. Where is it ideally situated. This is not a TIME variation, because it can take different girls different amounts of time to reach a buying temperature. By doing this, I am reducing fielding time drastically. I get the same level of intuition on a peice of material that would take most guys months to get, because I'm consciously testing it (aka "ranging" it). How do I recognize something subtle like buying temperature level, though? There's no way to readily verbally describe it. There is only... ....FIELD EXPERIENCE. This is why I'm able to venue change girls so rapidly, remove them from alphamales, or extract them from their groups. I can recogonize when they are at that level instantly, because I RANGED those acts, so I know immediately the second that they are ready. Like an oven timer going off..... "bing" E.g. HB: “you are lying to me” AFC: “no, I’m not... I wouldn’t lie to you.. why am I lying to you?” (notice that he accepts frame at end) Level 1: Insecure Reaction Result: HB senses insecurity and suspects you are Beta, possible Eject, or you will have to work to make up for it Yes and not only that, but more importantly (IME) is that she shut down your game by forcing you into a logical frame instead of an emotional one. GAME = stimulating a girls emotions, thus disengaging logic, thus breaking dow her ability to stop you from escalating. LOGIC = Anti-Game, thus she comes out of state DEFENDING YOURSELF = Logic Level 2: Overly Anti-supplicative Reaction Result: HB Senses insecurity, suspects you are Beta or worse Psycho, possible Eject Yes I noticed that also. Girls fear betas and feel uncomfortable around them not because they are of lower status necessarily, but also because they know that they take the interaction TOO SERIOUSLY. Like, they'll go home and think about it and take it the wrong way and misinterpret everything to have deeper significance. Girls are comfortable around alphas generally because they know that when you say "You're my new GF" its FUN, and that you'll forget about her 5 minutes later if nothing comes of it, anyway. Level 3: NO Reaction – Result: HB senses indifference, Alpha quality, has NO impact on sarge Again, to me its not exclusively about being alpha. It's that indifference doesn't give her the opportunity to shut your game down with logic. However it still IS about being alpha, in the sense that its about social value. Act like someone of social value (generally an "alpha" anyway), and you'll subcommunicate/telegraph that you were worth seeing, and that she made a mistake by blowing you off. I really like not answering girls (I do this ALL THE TIME) and ignoring what they say, and generally talking over them.
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159 What most guys don't know (even on this board), is that girls are so ridiculously suseptible to the frames that you throw at them, that you could distract them from virtually anything within seconds. I can tell a girl "I'm running a pickup workshop. This is my student. Student-X, I'm going to make out with this girl within 3 minutes. She's locked up right now, as you can see by x,y,z. Give me 3 minutes. Then I'll blow her off, and go tongue down a few more girls, to show you how its done." The girl will say "WTF did you just say? Are you kidding me?" I'll reply "hahhaa, I was just kidding.. hey get this (routine, mini-cold-read, future-adventures-projections, C&F-misinterpretations, etc etc). Start doing playful pushaways, get her pushing towards me all close, triangular gazing and then push away, she comes back, and TONGUEDOWN. Or I say "Student-X, watch how she's touching me when I make her emotional, to try to get me to touch her back so that she can displace the endorphins I'm shooting into her, and bring herself out of state. I'll even tell her to stop touching me, and she'll do it more and more. She won't be able to stop herself, its reflex." Again, RIGHT to the chick. She's like "Dude, WTF did you say", and I'm like "Hey, pay attention. I said I want to adopt you.. You're going to be my new little.. OMG you're so cute, I'm going to pack you in my suitcase and wrap you up in bubble wrap, so you'll be all squishy and cuddling, and I'm going to bring you back to Los Angeles with me. We're going to go shopping, and I'll have you on my arm like this, and EVERY GIRL IN THE PLACE will be JEALOUS of you.." She's like "OMG that's so awesome! I love you so much! blah blah" and starts touching me instantly. I say "Hey, you're my little sister.. Hands off the merchandise, that's 30 bucks reduced rates for little sisters", and she touches me more and more. Then I laugh at her and stop the pickup and blatantly remind her that I just told her I what I was about to do it. She's like "AAAAAAAAH!! WTF ARE YOU DOING TO ME???" It's all frame setting. You can PLOW girls' frames so easily. Not talking is another way to do this. You just IGNORE what she said, and then its "Follow the shiny thing girls.. Look, its a shiny thing!.. Follow it!" She instantly falls out of her frame and into yours. It all makes sense, because her emotions are saying "This is good". Her logic is DISENGAGED enough to ignore what's previously given her a bad emotion, in exchange for the more pleasant one (or in reality, to be more specific, the new attachment that you've given the emotion, since really love and hate are similar chemical reactions, but she tags it differently) Often, in deep comfort building, I'll have girls on my lap or leaning back on me or in close, and they'll say some shit like "You're too good at this.. You do this to girls all the time, don't you?" I just don't answer. I look at them, and don't answer. Then I ease my forehead to her head, and she reciprocates, and tonguedown. Boom, shit test passed. As you said, you don't even have to answer. You can IGNORE a shit-test, and if your frame is stronger, she'll forget that she even said it. The PUA just pretends the HB didn’t shit test him, doesn’t say anything / do anything. This is nice, because it is EASY to do. IMHO I passed a lot of shit tests in my first year of PU, just because I Level 4: Skillful Shit Test Passing Result: HB gets more attracted and Sarge PROGRESSES Result: She is unable to shut your game down, and use logic to put the breaks on her state of emotional arousal (which she tends to do just prior to hitting a higher buying temperature). OPENING/ ATTRACTION - Agreement and C&F response e.g. “Yeah, why is it that little powerpuffs like you like that so much?” - Emotion pump e.g. Tickle her, hit her, - Agreement and emotion pump e.g. “Yeah… oh but baby I loooooveee you sooo much.” RAPPORT - Aggressive reframe of shit test under your frame - Freeze-out SEDUCTION and POST LAY - Cavemaning - Freeze-out - Aggressive reframe of shit test under your frame Good summary. Also, I've noticed that cavemanning is typically useful to escalate a sarge ONLY in certain cases. For example, I've done entire sarges start to lay doing ONLY caveman. This is typical for girls of low social value, like girls over 30, party girls, or drunk girls.
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160 However, in other cases, I'll use caveman very strategically. For example, I'll only use it if I know that what I'll FOLLOW UP the cavemanning with is emotionally arousing enough to make her FORGET that I cavemanned her. Like with LMR, when she's back at your house but won't kiss. So you grab her hair back and FORCE it on her. You KNOW that with 5-6 hours that you've been pushing her through emotional states already, that the physical displacement of endorphins that the kiss will cause, will definetely have such a strong effect on her that she'll ignore that you cavemanned her. KEY TO ESCALATION = EMOTIONS. If you escalate, and make her laugh, she'll let you. If you escalate, and make her feel really good, she'll let you. The emotions that followed up the logical VIOLATION (ie: Why did this guy sit down at my table? Why is this guy pulling my arm out of the club? Why is this guy I just met shoving his hand down my pants?), must be powerful enough to disarm the logic. You sit down and she wonders "WTF', but say something insanely funny, and she thinks 'I want him to stay'. You start to finger her, she says no, but as she's saying it it feels so good that she says to keep going. All the way, she's backwards rationalizing. Formula = follow up something that telegraphs interest with something emotional. DISARM RESISTANCE TO ESCALATION WITH EMOTION.
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NEW ROUTINES (BREAKDOWN AND BUILDING) Routines are SO important, IMO. Good routines are integral to PU’ing groups of chicks. Anybody who tells me that they are pulling HB8+ chicks from groups without decent routines/gimmicks/games, I have to admit I am skeptical of (with exceptions, naturally). Routines have to have: • A HOOK • BUILD CURIOUSITY/INTRUIGUE • SOCIAL DYNAMICS / UNKNOWN • CONVEY PERSONALITY (or provide something to hold her attention in between personality conveying routines) • ENGAGE HER -(there are more elements, but lets keep it simple.. if someone wants to mention another key element, go ahead) Let’s break down the spells routine from the old www.mysterymethod.com site: DO YOU THINK SPELLS WORK? **the hook.. gets interest MY FRIEND, HE’S ALWAYS FINDING REASONS TO BREAK UP WITH GIRLS.. YOU KNOW, LIKE SEINFELD BLAH BLAH.. **social dynamics.. HE GETS THIS NEW GIRLFRIEND.. THEY’RE WATCHING A MOVIE ON THE COUCH, AND THEY KISS.. BUT HE DUMPS HER **relationships/social dynamics THE NEXT DAY, HE FINDS THIS THING UNDER THE COUCH **intrigue buildup ITS LIKE A SWEDE SATCHEL, WITH PARSLEY TYPE STUFF INSIDE, AND A FEATHER WRAPPED AROUND IT, TIED TOGETHER BY A LEATHER STRING.. AND ALL THIS WAX DRIPPED ALL OVER IT **the unknown, intrigue SO ANYWAY, A FEW DAYS LATER, WE’RE AT THE INCENTS STORE, BUYING INCENTS FOR MY LITTLE SISTER.. AND MY FRIEND ASKS THE GUY, “WHAT IS THIS” **personality conveyance “I have a little sister, I’m safe” HE CALLS OUT THE OTHER WORKER, AND HE’S THIS CRAZY LOOKING GUY.. YOU KNOW, BALD HEAD, GOATEE, ALL THAT.. **intrigue, suspense HE SAYS “LOVESPELL” .... LIKE ITS NOTHING YOU KNOW.. JUST “LOVESPELL” ALL CASUAL **intrigue, humour ANYWAY, WE TAKE OFF.. BUT NEXT THING YOU KNOW, I HAVEN’T SEEN MY FRIEND IN MONTHS.. HE’S ALL WITH THIS GIRL LIKE 24/7.. **social dynamics, gets them thinking of passionate relationships blah blah SO THE QUESTION IS: WAS IT THE SPELL, OR WAS IT PSYCHOLOGICAL??? **engages them (this is most extremely important)
NOW, this week I want to come up with more routines. I promise that as soon as I get time, I WILL. Tonight on the chat board, I asked resident mASF madster WHAM to spew any random ramblings to see if we could get some RAW material for new routines. (btw, a great place to look for raw material would be in “The Art of Seduction” by Robert Greene, or “Nancy Friday”, and I heard the Ripleys believe it or not site but I haven’t checked it) Here are some WACK things that he said.. we could build off of these. Wham, if you are reading, go ahead and post more. If you’re replying to the thread, post anything even if you feel that it is STUPID, and I will build off of it and tighten it by this weekend (I’m pretty busy until then, but may prior to that if I have time).
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162 Here are some that I took from the conversations with various guys. ***collegedrunkgirls.com (we could use this either in a C&F way, or better yet, in a ROUTINE that has the elements discussed above.. like a story, etc etc) ***colours (how colours engage the senses.. this could be similar to the “how close is such and such to your heart.. point” routine that CBull and Style were posting about.. it doesn’t need props, but you could use them.. it could also be a GAME.. also one of my PHD buddies does Philosophy of Colour, which apparently is very fascinating.. I will look into this, to see if anything interesting is in that.. I dunno if Spirit, or FinalD, or Commander Zap and other resident genius’ are familiar with Philosophy of Colour, but its some kind of cognitive philosophy of the mind thing, that is very esoteric) ***bodylanguage (similar to Kooper’s ‘guess the dancemove’ game.. but we could build off of this) Here are WHAM’s mad ramblings - very weird (I told him to go nuts and say the first things that came into his head), but may stimulate the imagination: ***I found a frog in the park today I tried to catch it but it kept slipping around When I finally caught it, I gave it a kiss and it didn’t turn into a princess if I kiss a princess, will it turn into a frog? (C&F style, needs alot of change I think) ***I saw a bird I thought it was a dodo bird a plane hit it it fell on this hot chick the hot chick was a shemale she offered it to my friend to share it for lunch (weird, but the idea of it has the necessary elements.. needs a total overhaul, way too fucked up, but spurs your mind to think of other possibilities) ***why do cats always land on their feet notice that toast always sounds butterside up so if you strap a cat onto a slice of toast, and throw it off the roof, what side does it land on (maybe too corny, I’m not sure.. but the IDEA of connecting TWO things to throw her can make a routine) ***curveballs are so hard to catch, that’s why i play pool i’ve gotten hit in the face with a poolball though (not sure about this one) ***want to buy my baby? its soft and sweet and tenderly unique they buy healthy babies for upwards of $500,000 a piece but only from the best looking parents i have a plan to make you a millionaire so if we collaborate this is NOT A SCAM (OK, the start of this is too fucking weird, but the “THIS IS NOT A SCAM” punchline said with TOTALLY funny C&F tonality could totally crack her up.. More experienced PUAs could transition this no prob, GM style, but I’m not sure if everyone here could or not.. I’d recommend taking off the first two lines)
Anyway, we need RAW fuel for NEW routines.. We want fucking CLASSICS, and I will FIELD TEST them if I like them, and report back.
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HABITS LEAD TO ROUTINE GENERATION for me, the majority of my routines were invented on the spot improv - IN FIELD just by chatting chicks, and they gave a great reaction to something that I said.. so picture it like this: I’m about to start sarging, and I’ll say to my wingman (Eddy, Twentysix, Papa, Superslicka, No9, Mystery, etc etc) “dude, what fun shit has happened in the last few days?”, and then start running through my mind what I’ve been up to in the past few days or how I’m feeling about anything in particular.. then I’ll think “what funny or cocky things have I heard lately?” I’ll just think about that for a minute or two, and then start sarging.. just talk about what’s on your mind, that fits in a category of stuff that will hit girls on an emotional level: • C&F/jerk routines make chicks go “oh! JERK! He’s so hot!” • puppydog routines make chicks go “aaaawww.. he’s so cute!” • intrigue routines get intrigue • gimmicks/magic/games get attention, build higher value • don juanish routines make chicks feel romanced • rapport based routines make chicks feel comfortable and trusting around you (very important) So you just sprinkle them in as your intuition/experience tells you that they’re needed, like you’re boiling a stew. These routines are sprinkled in AS NEEDED, IF and ONLY IF they’re needed.. if you can PU off of pure rapport and GWM-phase shifting, then this stuff will overqualify you. MANY chicks will view you as having higher value, just because you approached confidently and didn’t appear to be trying too hard. If she already likes you right off the approach, and you proceed to manipulate her emotions too competently, she’ll assume “Player”, and even though she’ll be wetter than wet, she still won’t go for the close. I’ve even had girls blurt out “I’m not going to sleep with you!!!” out of NOWHERE, just because I was pumping them through states so fast, that they can’t think straight. I’ll get chicks who remember me by name months after 2 minutes of flirting where I wasn’t even sarging. The other day, my buddy was in the movie store and heard these chicks I flirted with for 5 minutes in the St. Laurent mall two weeks ago saying “remember that TylerDurden guy from last week, with the tall boots.. OMG that guy was sooo hot.. oh I wish he’d come back”.. and by my recollection, these were girls who started giggling and turned away from me, when I was flirting with them.. The reason being that I was TOO FAST at putting them in state, so I snapped the line by reeling it in too fast and they couldn’t take it. Even though it was validating to hear that, I still left with D.I.H (dick in hand).. So what you’ll get are girls who LOVE you, but won’t let you close, because they KNOW that you’re too good to be genuine. They know that you’re FAKE, or at least that you have laid so many chicks that they wouldn’t feel special. Of course with PARTY CHICKS this is FANTASTIC and they LOVE/APPRECIATE a guy who will do this, and use them and throw them to the side of the road, but the majority of chicks I want aren’t party chicks. Also, a big thing for me is that the SECOND I see or hear something funny, I walk over to the nearest chick and try saying it to her. Like with the “C&F lines from movie Shanghai Knights” post.. I saw the movie, and internalized the lines immediately.. I do this all the time. I’m not a routines based PUA, but I have a set response to EVERY situation that I could ever be in. Whatever the girls say, I have a better answer. If they say “are you well off financially?” I say “yeah I am.. but I won’t be for long, because my penis reduction surgery is going to clean me out..” (MadDash).. if they say “what’s your name” I say “guess.. Brad Pitt.. I’m just trapped in an ugly guy’s body.. I’m trying to bust out of it”.. If I don’t have a better answer, I immediately say “WTF?”, and go straight to my wingmen or ASF to ask what I could have said that was better.. That’s rare nowadays though, because I understand the STRUCTURE of a good/better answer, and I can make it up on the spot. So I’ll have set stuff that I know will get chicks to isolate themselves, or to make them not flake, or to pass shit tests.. WHATEVER. I’ll also have routines for all of the above criteria.. but these change practically every other week.. I get sick of routines after around a couple weeks of use, and the new stuff from my life starts getting incorporated. Have you read any of Juggler’s Archive at all? He talks about MAKING STATEMENTS and getting rapport. This, and GUNWITCH METHOD are basically the CORE of your sarge. Routines and C&F are just to gain initial attraction or acceptance from a group.. or to elicit a desired emotional response from a sarge that isn’t as warm as you’d like. The only reason that I post alot of routines and C&F is because its something that I’m very good at, and because GWM and Juggler have already discussed the more important stuff at LENGTH, so it wouldn’t be new material for me to post that I’m doing the same stuff as they are (I don’t want the board to keep going in circles, so I usually just post stuff that is new) But sometimes I wonder if it leaves the impression that phase shift and rapport are not the most important parts of the sarge, when really they are. hmmm.. I dunno. Anyway there’s an archive of all of my old posts under www.fastseduction.com/archives (click ‘gzip archives’).. so you can find all of it in there..
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164 Just remember though, that you can make up TONS of new routines every day that you’re in field, just by thinking about your life, and extracting the events/thoughts/convotopics that would get a desired emotional response from a chick.
ROUTINE / OPENER CURVE THE ROUTINE/OPENER CURVE: 1-
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You try a brand new routine or opener. It falls flat. Then you TIGHTEN it by using it on TWENTY different girls. It tightens and tightens, until it is TIGHT. Now you have a tight routine to use in a sarge. To get the desired reaction from a routine typically takes me between five and thirty botched sarges (now that I’m better, I can afford fuckups and still hold the sarge, but in the past I’d typically lose it). Then after x-number of lost sarges, the routine is now tight. The routines fall FLAT. You’ve used it SO MANY TIMES that you literally CAN’T STAND THE SOUND OF YOUR OWN VOICE USING THE ROUTINE, and you feel like an idiot using it. You get sick of the same stupid assed responses, and don’t look enthusiastic by them anymore. You come off incongruent or fake or whatever, and your routine fucks up your sarges. You DROP the routine, and you CHANGE back to OLD routines that you haven’t used for a few months, and then all of a sudden they are working AWESOME. Better than even when you had originally used them, because you have both the mastered DELIVERY and the renewed ENTHUSIASM. You use these until you begin to find them boring again, and then you revert BACK to the routines you DROPPED.
5-20 uses: shit 20-300 uses: very tight 300+ uses: goes to crap, due to utter lack of enthusiasm SWITCH TO OLD ROUTINES: 300-600: very tight 600+: goes to crap SWITCH BACK TO ROUTINES YOU DROPPED: 300-600: very tight 600+: you’re sick of them again SWITCH BACK ROUTINES YET AGAIN: 900-1100: very tight again 1100+: crap again etc etc etc etc etc......... Also, you learn NEW routines that are posted HERE, and then sometimes just drop going back to your old ones. But if you don’t have enough of a new stock that you’re ENTHUSIASTIC for, you just go back to old ones and they’re AS GOOD AS NEW. KEY here is that when you go back to old material that you thought sucked and your new shit was better, you find that the old stuff WAS good, since you now have a RENEWED ENTHUSIASM for it. And yes, for keyboard jockeys this will all seem very weird. “Holy shit, how many sarges does this guy do???” For guys in field, this should be a very recognizable phenomenon that they’ve experienced.
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THE ROUTINE CURVE IN PUA DEVELOPMENT 123-
As a newbie, routines help you tremendously. You have no clue what to say to a woman, so you can use routines as a crutch. Now you can at least say SOMETHING, and know that if she responds poorly that its your bodylanguage and tonality, NOT the words since they were field tested by others. As an intermediate, routines fuck you up. Why? Because you now know the STRUCTURE of what holds a woman’s or group’s attention, and you’re running along with a GREAT convo, and then you bust in this routine that seems overly STRAINED and OUT OF PLACE. You’re relying on the OUTCOME of that particular routine, when in fact you didn’t even need it. As a PUA, routines now HELP you again. Why? Because you’re so tight that you don’t make fuckups like coming off poorly (very often hopefully), and the routines are designed to get you to way-points in the sarge (elicit certain reactions or states).
LINES FOR LOCKEDUP CHICKS 1) 2) 3) 4) 5)
are you like this with everybody, or just people cooler than you? whoa.. you guys are like the mean cool kids from high school. OK I guess that names are out of the question.. alright, I’ll call you #1 and you #2.. #2, please tell #1 that she has a white thingy sticking out of her ear, and that nobody is going to talk to her tonight because its really nasty.. #1, please tell #2 that there is a charm school opening on x-street, and that she qualifies for instant admission. whoa.. you guys are like unapproachable total A-Crowd.. you guys are fake.. this isn’t genuine.. you’re just acting like this because its club time.. I don’t think that you treat people like this during the day.. this fake.. be genuine.
For guys who fear rejection, or guys who just want a good comeback: PUA: hey guys.. get this.. HBS: get lost! (or turn their backs on you or whatever) PUA: Oh my god.. you guys are so cute! You’re just like those evil cool kids in those eighties popularity movies! Hey there goes Molly Ringwald! I’m gonna go catch up with her guys.. Nice meeting you! (make it look uncanned, like you just thought of it right then and there.. also don’t look emotionally affected by it.. re-game them by merging groups once you have better social proof)
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THE ANOMOLY EFFECT More no-sleep ramblings from TylerDurden.. even more abstract now, so probably incomprehensible (will review this tommorow morning).. THE ANOMOLY EFFECT: The effect which is the result of taking SPECIFIC STRATEGIES into the field, that are not genuinely part of your personality, and implementing them WITHOUT implementing the NATURAL elements that someone who NATURALLY used them would have.
A QUICK ANALOGY: In Australia, when bunny rabbits were let loose, they covered the entire country-side because there were no NATURAL PREDATORS. This is because a FOREIGN element was introduced, and there were no NATURAL CHECKS to deal with it (IOW, there were no rabbit predators to eat the little bunny rabbits and keep their population in check) Using modern cropping techniques based in genetic engineering, modern farmers can run the SAME crop 3 times per year, instead of different crops each trimester as is the natural way. As a result, BUGS INFILTRATE. Since there is the SAME PLANT growing ALL YEAR, they can multiply more effectively than if a different plant was introduced every 4 months. So their ideal habitat is always there, and they can just multiply and multiply. THESE ARE ANOMOLIES THAT ARE THE RESULT OF NON-NATURAL INTRODUCTION OF VARIOUS ELEMENTS.
HOW THIS RELATES TO PICKUP: When you intentionally learn a new technique, you might be inclined to implement it in an EXAGGERATED fashion. 1)
An example of this is COCKY/FUNNY. C&F is designed to attract girls, but does little to gain rapport in many cases. THE RESULT: A pure C&F sarge will yield you a chick that will fuck you RIGHT THERE, but won’t return your friggin’ phone calls a day later. Actually fuck that.. a MINUTE later.. (the other night, using a PURE C&F sarge (because of a time-constraint), 26 and I had girls walking out of the club, and they were TOTALLY into the idea - arm-in-arm with us all smiling and saying they wanted to, but then FLAKED on the insta-date just cause we left for ONE MINUTE to handle coat check) Recall my sarge of the chick with her date from late December. I did PURE C&F, and she wanted to bang me in the BATHROOM while her date was sitting in the other end of the club. She was THAT HORNY, even though I did NOTHING but C&F ballbusting for 15 minutes. Then, later on when we got in touch, she FLAKED. (this may also be because I made her take me skiing, but who knows). This is a VERY COMMON result of a pure C&F sarge. The SECOND you leave, she comes out of state, and BOOM, no interest in pursuing the guy who she just made out with within 5 minutes of meeting.
2)
MYSTERY METHOD: You learn to become LARGER THAN LIFE.. You learn to project MYSTERY and INTRIGUE.. If you’re doing MM properly, you have people flocking around you, and everyone is wondering ‘WHO IS THIS GUY???’ As a result, the chick will become massively intrigued with you.. But VERY OFTEN, you get cases where you try to #close the chick, and she’ll do ABSOLUTELY BIZARRE SHIT.. An example was when Mystery sarged this stripper, and he tries to #close. She declines, and starts CRYING.. LITERALLY CRYING.. she doesn’t want him to leave.. “don’t leave.. please don’t leave.. I’m sooo confused..” He puts his hat on her head, and she starts saying that she feels the room spinning. She keeps hovering around him, crying, and giving all these IOIs LEFT AND RIGHT.. she is SO INTO HIM its RIDICULOUS, but won’t let him #close her.. “i’m so confused.. I’m so confused.. I’ve never met anyone like you..” (all this while she is hugging him and begging him not to leave and shit.. it was VERY sexual, but she wouldn’t let him close) Having done alot of work to improve my MM, I’m actually starting to get results like this on odd occassions.. I’ll sarge a chick, and she’ll decline further contact. She’ll let me kiss her, and all that shit, but she FREAKS OUT when I try to #close her.. She is thinking WHY ME??? WHY ME??? I sarged this hottie waitress in front of Paps and Dreamweaver, and she declines my invite to be my “new girlfriend”.. but yet she keeps coming back to the table AGAIN and AGAIN.. she begs me to chat her after my dinner, and won’t leave me alone.. but yet, she WILL NOT see me again.. she is FREAKED OUT, but will still KISS ME and do ANYTHIGN I WANT.. I bet I could have nailed her right at her work, but yet she is so freaked out that she just can’t figure out what is going on..
These are ANOMOLIES of MODELLING a particular element of a successful PUAs style. 1) 2)
A natural C&F type guy would be likely to also have rapport building skills and such.. so he wouldn’t have the problem of instaflake once the chick comes out of state. A genuine celebrity might also have certain rapport building skills..
But when we EMULATE stuff like DYD and MM, we don’t NATURALLY include the RAPPORT BUILDING, and we LOSE THE CONNECTION.
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167 The ANSWER then is to backtrack and BUILD RAPPORT with chicks, once you have successfully attracted them using DYD or MM tactics. The ANSWER is to REWIND and get a GENUINE CONNECTION with the chick, once you’ve attracted her using your techniques. Get a GENUINE connection that you GENUINELY FEEL, and she’ll want to see you again because you’re FRIENDS. (unless she’s a party girl, who won’t date most guys anyway since she just wants ONS, so just give her what she wants if you’re into that) Otherwise, you suffer from BIZARRE ANOMOLIES, where chicks WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU, but give you WEIRD resistance down the line. It’s a result of emulating PARTS, but not ALL of a particular successful approach. Anomolies.
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HIGH DRAMA STATE CHANGES I was hanging with Style (aka CPowles) last weekend, bitching about how girls can change state so quickly. One thing that he said that really stood out to me was: “Most girls that we game are totally into us within seconds. At the same time, they can totally hate us for saying one wrong thing. But if we accept that they love us within seconds, we have to accept that they can hate us with the same degree of extremity”. (paraphrased) That’s the thing. You can be gaming a girl, and out of nowhere she just starts disliking you. I remember back last week, I had something really deflating happen to me. This really got to me. I actually wrote a long post about it on my school computer, but it was deleted due to a technical problem. Sickboy007 and I gamed up these two fun girls a few weeks back, while he was up visiting with me in Kingston (at the campus club). Nothing really came of it, but they thought we were cool. I see them again and they open me. I chat up my blondie (who looks like Trista from “The Bachelorette”), and she’s really into me. It’s really on. Like REALLY on. She loves me. Like its not that C&F type attraction, where she swats you and giggles. It’s like full doggy dinner bowl look, where she’s thinking about having your children. So I’m about 2-3 hours into the set at this point, on top of the 45 minutes I’d run with SB007. It’s starting to hit into midgame at this point, and I’m just comfort building. The kino is really reciprocal, and its really great. I’m really liking her, because whenever a girl really likes me not just as a C&F guy, but as a person, I have a real soft spot for it. I say to her, “You know what.. You make me feel really good.. I want to make you feel like that also.. I’m going to treat you like a princess”. She’s like “Really? OMG, that’s so awesome.. I really want to see you again..” I say “Yeah.. I’m definetely going to.. I know you don’t deserve it, but I’ll do it anyway..” This was supposed to be tongue and cheek. A fucking JOKE. It’s a field tested joke at that, that I use all the time in order to diffuse girls who realize that they really don’t deserve it, but figure that since they make me feel good that I’ll do the same in spite of their LSE, etc etc. But this girl freaks. She’s like “What?? You think I’m a SLUT???” and she loses state. It’s OVER. I try joking with her, and running all my turn-around material. I have piles of this stuff that I’ll use. Everything from Style’s stuff with the whole “I grew up with sisters and we tease eachother as a sign of affection”, to C&F stuff, to sincere apology which I’ll sometimes use if I’m deep into rapport. Nope. Nada. Nothing. She hates me now. Fucking hates me. Does it matter that she’s hung out with me and we’re having a great time for the last few hours? Nope. Girls are like cats. You pet them for hours and they love you. But you pat them the wrong way ONE TIME and give them one bad emotion, and they jump off your lap and don’t come back, and totally forget about how good you were making eachother feel for the hour before. (This is another pretty decent playful routine I’ll run, btw, when girls get mad at me, which I start with “Ooops.. Shit, I just generated a bad emotion in you, didn’t I?”) Style told me that he had a similar reaction when he was on a date with a girl from the personals (he did a personal adds experiment, apparently), and he used a false time constraint. False time constraints are useful even on dates, because they reduce pressure. But this girl, out of nowhere, says “I can’t be with you. You’re too social. I don’t go out and meet up with friends everynight like you do.” IE, he has just overqualified himself, only by using a false time constraint. And boom, she doesn’t like him anymore, even though she was loving him up to that point. We were joking around also, at how funny it is that both of us lost both of these girls by using stuff that wasn’t even TRUE. haa, what a good add just to be yourself! But really these things have gotten us in so many times, that’s not a good way to look at it. Still, its pretty ironic. I’ve also had girls realize out of the blue that they’re not qualified, based on the most ridiculous shit. Like I was 5 hours in with a girl that I extracted from a club, on a night that I was dressed fairly generic. She was about a 7.5 (decently hot, not outstanding), and she was really cool. At the same time though, she wasn’t that confident with herself, and I could tell. So we’re snuggling together in the restaurant, and she notices the boots I’m wearing. She’s like “Wow, those are intense.. Can I see?” She pulls up the legs of my jeans and sees that I’m wearing my rockstar boots. Out of nowhere, she says “You really have alot of confidence to wear those. You really get alot of girls I bet. Why are you even hanging with me? My life is boring”. BOOM! GAME OVER! She says she has to go, and starts THROWING money at me to get rid of me. She gives me like almost 100$ worth of restaurant and cab fare, and takes off. She won’t return my calls or see me again. And this girl had been making plans with me about how she wants me to take her skiing, and how this is the first real connection she’s felt in a long time, etc etc. This is deep in, with a good amount of comfort/rapport/tonguedown, etc etc. Again, we go back to the high drama intense state changes. Her brain is in a highly active processing state, where she’s rapidly computing “Is this guy the goods or not?” And the second her emotions tell her “Nope”, she immediately loses all friendship and interest with you.
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169 I mean this shit HURTS, yo! Like I actually get my feelings hurt from this.. :) I’m kind of laughing while I type this, but its actually TRUE! I’ll be in 6-7 hours with some of these girls, and I feel like they’re kind of my friends. And then out of nowhere, one wrong move, and POOF, BYE BYE.. The reason, of course, is that I’m effectively flipping the switches of these girls at such a high speed. This is something that alot of people don’t understand about pickup. There are specific switches that you have to flip in a girl before she’ll sleep with you. Most guys take weeks or months to flip these switches. I can do it in about 7 hours. So these girls are in high drama, high state, high emotions. And one wrong move and I’m TOAST! Some of the ways I deal with it, I’ve listed above. Style’s “teasing as affection” bit. The “girls are like cats” playful joking. Also, I’ll often just befriend the peergroup and hang with them for a while, until she cools off. At that point, I’ll just continue the pickup like nothing happened. Likewise, a sincere apology followed by some hilarious C&F can work. The thing is, sometimes these things don’t work because her brain picks up on the pattern that you’re being playful as a supplicative thing. Like the girl all of a sudden can just tell that you’re being playful because you’re trying to manipulate her emotions. And at that point, she’s usually shut down for good. Also, going back to RJ speed seduction type stuff, sometimes I’ll key into something that is a real emotional anchour to her, and I’ll just bring it up out of nowhere, and she’ll melt. Really I have no perfect solution for this, but wanted to post about it because its something that’s interested me lately.
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DISSECTING SHIT TEST PASSING MEASURES OK some guys still aren’t getting this, so a little bit of review. The term “shit test” is a blanket term for several things that can happen. As far as I know, they all revolve around the chick trying to break her own state. I’m not sure if its subconscious or intentional, or if they consciousless try to cause trouble because something on a biological/subconscious level compels them to do so (same way that we’re compelled to PU and close chicks). Some people theorize that its a way of constantly testing the male to see if he’s alpha, or something to that effect. Anyway, the point is that the ONLY ways to pass a shit test are to PREVENT her from breaking her own state. During the course of the pickup and relationship, the chick will try to RESIST by intentionally breaking HER OWN STATE. It’s almost hard to believe that they even enjoy sex as much as us, when they do shit like this.. But really, they just don’t want to get sexed by losers, so I don’t blame them. OK, so all ways to pass a shit test revolve around the same thing: PREVENTING THE CHICK FROM BREAKING HER OWN STATE. So let’s look back at my old post on this, just in case you guys can’t remember it. If you remember it, then skip down to the next section: Options: How to pass a shit test
1)
2) 3) 4) 5) 6) 7)
DYD Style: The answer she wants, followed by something sarcastic. HB: “Where were you last night”, PUA: “At home all night thinking about you........... but then I got bored and called over 10 strippers”.... this way is VERY consistent, because it plays on her EMOTIONS. It DISARMS her anger initially - with the answer she wants, but SAVES you from being a bitch by following with sarcasm. 50’s movie style (like in John Wayne films): FUCK HER RIGHT THERE _H_A_R_D_, or kiss her etc.. VERY effective method. Imitate her tonality, facial animations, and bodylanguage. HB: “Where-were-you-last-night”, PUA: “With-my-other-girl-friend-last-night” (good to follow with a kiss right there) Withdraw: If its THAT BAD of an infraction, just withdraw. This can convey that you have other GFs or can at least get them. ie: Although I LIKE you, I don’t need you, and you are replacable. Push her through more states: Just ignore the comment, and bust out some ASF stuff (patterns, stories, etc) to put her into the state you want her in. Utter sarcasm: Stick your tongue out at her, and go pppffftttt... and start tickling her.... etc NOT A GOOD WAY: Hit her. I would personally NEVER hit a chick for ANY reason, but I am posting this for TECHNICALITY, on the account that I am trying to push a certain point. (and unfortunately, yes, certain girls -often LSE-stay with guys who hit them, and it works to pass the shit test.. very sad phenomenon)
Notice that all of these ways DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE her shit test directly. They just play on her EMOTIONS. DIRECTLY answering a shit test will FAIL YOU EVERY TIME. A direct answer pisses her off MORE, whether she realizes it or not.
OK now to the meat of this post. When the chicks SHIT TEST you, you can only pass it by preventing them from breaking their own state. They do this shit to me ALL THE TIME. They TRY SO HARD to break their state, so that they can resist your advances. They’ll do shit like: • • • • • • • • • • • • •
“are you a player?” “I bet you’ve done this with hundreds of girls” “where were you last night?” “is that your pickupline??? do you plan this???” -or- “did you bring that notepad just for this gimmick to PU girls??” “you’re funny” -or- “you’re so confident” (tough to field cause you can’t tell if they’re serious or possibly questioning your intentions) “We’re going to have sex” (when chicks go GM on you, ANY variation.. “you’re hot” etc) “We’re NOT going to have sex” “I’m fat” “What do you do for a living?” “How old are you?” “You’re too young” “What’s your sign?” “What are you taking at school?”
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“Don’t blame the dog/kid/whatever” “blah blah blah” (chick talks TOO MUCH, and you are supplicating by listening)
Alright, so let’s break these down.. Some of these I remember learning from CPowles and others: ST: “are you a pleyer” WHY: She’s trying to make you EXPLAIN yourself, which she KNOWS will aggrevate her - as ALL logical answers do - so she can put up more LMR. A1: “don’t hate the player, hate the game” A2: “what is it about players that turn you on so much?” A3: “yeah, I play sport” A4: “players play with people’s emotions and isn’t genuine” (turn it around on her so that she’s accusing you of faking your whole interaction, to make her feel bad) EFFECT: A1 is funny, gets her laughing and breaks upset state. A2 is cocky and turns her on. A3 highlights the stupidity of the question. A4 puts down the problems of the chick who is maybe really shy, and is seriously scared (librians archetypes, etc) ST: “I bet you’ve done this with hundreds of girls” WHY: Same reason as above. A: “I’ve done it with thousands” EFFECT: Shows cockiness, turns her on more. Shows her that you won’t bend to her shit tests. ST: “where were you last night?” WHY: She is trying to work A1: “I stayed at home thinking about you.. But then I got bored and hired 10 strippers” A2: “chillin’ with your sister” EFFECT: A1 is a BEAUTIFUL way of fielding shit tests. It plays her emotions, because what it does is gives her the answer she WANTS which calms her down, and a COCKY/FUNNY answer to make her get turned on and laughing BEFORE she can realize that what you were saying was bullshit. A2 shows her you won’t take her shit, C&F, turns her on. ST: “is that your pickupline??? do you plan this???” -or- “did you bring that notepad just for this gimmick to PU girls??” WHY: She is trying to block you from picking her up, testing your wit. A: “yeah, and I even planned to meet a girl with (x-neg that was said EARLIER on in the sarge) (yeah, I even planned to meet a powerpuff girl tonight / yeah, I even planned to meet a girl with stuff in her teeth tonight / yeah I even planned to meet a girl with cute bunny rabbit teeth tonight / yeah I even planned to meet a girl with lint on her shirt tonight.... etc etc etc WHICHEVER neg you used) EFFECT: Shows her that you’re smarter than her, and makes her question look ridiculous. ST: “you’re funny” -or- “you’re so confident” WHY: This is TOUGH to field because you can’t tell if its serious or not. Just field it as a shit test because it cracks her up either way with your C&Fness. A: “what is it about funny guys that turns you on so much?” EFFECT: C&F, shows you’re alpha.. funny line.. funny guys are smart. ST: “we’re going to have sex” or “you’re hot” WHY: When chicks go GM its because they are hyper-obnoxious attention whores. A: “respect” (said slyly, CPowles classic) EFFECT: Show that you’re not the type to get all desperate and takes the compliments seriously. ALSO, show that you don’t get UPSET by the comments either. It shows complete disregard to her obnoxiousness, and is FUNNY (not insulting) at the same time. ST: “we’re not going to have sex tonight” WHY: She may want it to “just happen” and is feeling too much like its an obvious pickup that would make her slutiness obvious. She is also testing to see your reaction, do you want her ONLY for sex, etc.. She’s also trying to break her own state, as in ALL shit tests. A: “who said anything about sex? mmmmmmmmmm... guess you’ve got something on your mind ;)” EFFECT: Shows you’re funny, and RELAXED... also cocky therefore masculine. ST: “I’m fat” WHY: Testing to see if you’re a beta pacifier type lame-ass. A1: “You’re enormous” A2: “mmmmmm... more cushion for the pushin’” A3: “J-Lo is in the house” (for “my ass is fat”) A4: “You’re cuddly like winnie the pooh... ooooooo” (grab her, tickle her) A5: “Look out Rosie!” (rosie o’donnel) EFFECT: Highlights the ridiculousness of her comments, shows that you don’t supplicate, cocky therefore alpha. ST: “What do you do for a living?” WHY: She is demonstrating that she can SCREEN or QUALIFY you.
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172 A1: “I clone humans” A2: “I produce (x-trait of hers) fetish porn.. I’m looking for new actresses” (break into Kooper C&F frames, and pretend that you’re a pimp and she’s your latest girl) A3: “Guess” (HOOP THEORY, make her jump through the hoop first before you tell her) EFFECT: Demonstrates to her that you will NOT be screened. Demonstrates alphaness, because it subtley says “I’m here to sex you, not support you, so it doesn’t matter” ST: “How old are you?” WHY: She is qualifying you. A1: “Guess” (hoop theory, and my answer of choice because age is SOMEWHAT important sometimes) A2: x-ridiculous age EFFECT: Shows her that you will not be qualified, or are so confident that even if you ignore her stupid qualifications, you’re confident that you’ll fuck her anyway. ST: “You’re too young” WHY: Trying to qualify you, trying to push you back, trying to break her own state. A1: “yeah.. I know.. I crawled out of my crib, stole my big brother’s ID, and snuck in here.. does anyone have any diapers??????” (look around FRANTICALLY) A2: “don’t worry.. like.. I won’t hold it against you.. I’m not like that” (said with sympathy) EFFECT: Makes her laugh, prevents her from putting up resistant emotions. ST: “What’s your sign” WHY: Qualifying you based on ARBITRARY RIDICULOUS shit. A1: “Guess” (HOOP THEORY) EFFECT: Shows her that you will play her game, but she has to play yours as well. You’re still equals, and you’ll screen her based on her GUESSING abilities, guessing an arbitrary thing. ‘If you will screen me on something arbitrary, I’ll do it to you’ ST: “What are you taking at school?” WHY: Possibly screening you for income A1: “Cotton blending.. mmm.. this shirt looks like 85% cotton” (grabbing her shirt, stroking her playfully) A2: “human cloning” A3: “OK, seriously, you can’t tell this to ANYONE.. promise??? ok, seriously?? OK, I know this sounds weird, but I’m actually taking courses on how to shoot porn” .. wait for her to think you’re serious, and start laughing at her.. Good only for HB9+ usually. EFFECT: A1 is playful and fun.. A2&3 show her that you will not be qualified. ST: “Don’t blame the dog/kid/whatever” (assuming you DID fuckup, and ACTUALLY said something mean.. I’m talking STICKY situations here, where you actually fucked up) WHY: She is trying to upset herself, because she has de A: That dog is STUPID!! hahha.. ok you’re right” (then KISS her) EFFECT: Shows her “I am STILL the man, but will admit I fucked up”.. At this point, you may have said something so stupid that you can’t cover it with C&F, so PROTOCOL is to PUSH further by re-enforcing with alpha statements that are FUNNY, but then admitting she’s right.. You kiss her as a REWARD for showing you. ST: “blah blah blah” (chick talks TOO MUCH, and you are supplicating by listening) WHY: If you listen, you are her girlfriend. A: Do you have an off switch.. (mock hit her, then kiss her) EFFECT: Shows you won’t be a drama queen, controls her emotions with first a mock-hit (bring her DOWN) and then a kiss (bring her UP).. Fucks with her emotions, makes you unpredictable, turns her on.
Notice that ALL of these involve the chick subconsiously/consciously trying to BREAK HER OWN STATE. But by pumping her with a DIFFERENT emotion (humour, C&F/alphaness/therfore turning her on, tickling her, kissing her/passion, etc) you PREVENT her from breaking her own state. You are DERAILING her screening process, therefore getting into the golden gates. They always try to prevent themselves from getting laid by you. REVEL in it. Because all shit tests are ACTUALLY OPPORTUNITIES. If you’re being tested, its a good sign, because it SHOWS that you have ENGAGED her reproductive screening process. Do you think that HBs sit around shit testing RANDOM BUMS OFF THE STREET??? NO. They only do it to guys just like YOU. So be HAPPY that they shit test you, because if they didn’t, then you are in SERIOUS trouble! :) Remember, ANY logical answer shows beta-ness, and therefore will make her MORE upset. Have you ever seen a guy start explaining himself to a chick and have her LIKE it??????? RARELY. Only if its a SERIOUS incident, and EVEN THEN chicks are so chick-ish that they often don’t like it. Hope that’s helpful. Try to keep it in mind.
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173 One last IMPORTANT ONE. I forgot, but when a SUPER HOT chick tries touching you, that is a SHIT TEST. You may THINK that its an IOI. NOPE. If you’re using negs and C&F ballbusting, they ALWAYS try to touch you to get you to like them so they can VALIDATE their insecurity. The answer to being touched by a chick: “Hands off the merchandise! That’ll cost you 30$” or as the song playing ends “if you want me to stay for another song, I need 20$.. You can’t touch me but I can touch you.. I’m sorry, but its not my rules” (IOW, like you’re giving her a lap-dance) When a really hot chick tries touching you TOO EARLY (like it may not be appropriate yet) NEVER act eager unless you are DAMNED sure that it means something. She’s getting AROUSED by what you’re doing, and wants to BREAK HER OWN STATE by touching you so that you’ll get eager, which subconsciously she KNOWS will turn her off.
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SHIT TEST PASSING COMPETENCY Repetition builds a field intuition and eventually you can feel what is the perfect response to every situation. Routines/tactics have RANGES. There are certain levels of arousal that a routine works best at. When internalizing a new peice, I “RANGE” it. That is my process. I’ll say to Papa, “I’m ranging x-routine”. First sarge, I try it at x-buying-temperature. Second sarge, I’ll try it at y-buying-temperature. Third, another one. I try it early, I try it late. I see after several sarges how soon and how late I can run it. Where is it ideally situated. This is not a TIME variation, because it can take different girls different amounts of time to reach a buying temperature. By doing this, I am reducing fielding time drastically. I get the same level of intuition on a peice of material that would take most guys months to get, because I’m consciously testing it (aka “ranging” it). How do I recognize something subtle like buying temperature level, though? There’s no way to readily verbally describe it. There is only... ....FIELD EXPERIENCE. This is why I’m able to venue change girls so rapidly, remove them from alphamales, or extract them from their groups. I can recogonize when they are at that level instantly, because I RANGED those acts, so I know immediately the second that they are ready. Like an oven timer going off..... “bing” E.g. HB: “you are lying to me” AFC: “no, I’m not... I wouldn’t lie to you.. why am I lying to you?” (notice that he accepts frame at end) Level 1: Insecure Reaction Result: HB senses insecurity and suspects you are Beta, possible Eject, or you will have to work to make up for it Yes and not only that, but more importantly (IME) is that she shut down your game by forcing you into a logical frame instead of an emotional one. GAME = stimulating a girls emotions, thus disengaging logic, thus breaking dow her ability to stop you from escalating. LOGIC = Anti-Game, thus she comes out of state DEFENDING YOURSELF = Logic Level 2: Overly Anti-supplicative Reaction Result: HB Senses insecurity, suspects you are Beta or worse Psycho, possible Eject, or Yes I noticed that also. Girls fear betas and feel uncomfortable around them not because they are of lower status necessarily, but also because they know that they take the interaction TOO SERIOUSLY. Like, they’ll go home and think about it and take it the wrong way and misinterpret everything to have deeper significance. Girls are comfortable around alphas generally because they know that when you say “You’re my new GF” its FUN, and that you’ll forget about her 5 minutes later if nothing comes of it, anyway. Level 3: NO Reaction – Result: HB senses indifference, Alpha quality, has NO impact on sarge Again, to me its not exclusively about being alpha. It’s that indifference doesn’t give her the opportunity to shut your game down with logic. However it still IS about being alpha, in the sense that its about social value. Act like someone of social value (generally an “alpha” anyway), and you’ll subcommunicate/telegraph that you were worth seeing, and that she made a mistake by blowing you off. I really like not answering girls (I do this ALL THE TIME) and ignoring what they say, and generally talking over them. What most guys don’t know (even on this board), is that girls are so ridiculously suseptible to the frames that you throw at them, that you could distract them from virtually anything within seconds. I can tell a girl “I’m running a pickup workshop. This is my student. Student-X, I’m going to make out with this girl within 3 minutes. She’s locked up right now, as you can see by x,y,z. Give me 3 minutes. Then I’ll blow her off, and go tongue down a few more girls, to show you how its done.”
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175 The girl will say “WTF did you just say? Are you kidding me?” I’ll reply “hahhaa, I was just kidding.. hey get this (routine, mini-cold-read, future-adventures-projections, C&F-misinterpretations, etc etc). Start doing playful pushaways, get her pushing towards me all close, triangular gazing and then push away, she comes back, and TONGUEDOWN. Or I say “Student-X, watch how she’s touching me when I make her emotional, to try to get me to touch her back so that she can displace the endorphins I’m shooting into her, and bring herself out of state. I’ll even tell her to stop touching me, and she’ll do it more and more. She won’t be able to stop herself, its reflex.” Again, RIGHT to the chick. She’s like “Dude, WTF did you say”, and I’m like “Hey, pay attention. I said I want to adopt you.. You’re going to be my new little.. OMG you’re so cute, I’m going to pack you in my suitcase and wrap you up in bubble wrap, so you’ll be all squishy and cuddling, and I’m going to bring you back to Los Angeles with me. We’re going to go shopping, and I’ll have you on my arm like this, and EVERY GIRL IN THE PLACE will be JEALOUS of you..” She’s like “OMG that’s so awesome! I love you so much! blah blah” and starts touching me instantly. I say “Hey, you’re my little sister.. Hands off the merchandise, that’s 30 bucks reduced rates for little sisters”, and she touches me more and more. Then I laugh at her and stop the pickup and blatantly remind her that I just told her I what I was about to do it. She’s like “AAAAAAAAH!! WTF ARE YOU DOING TO ME???” It’s all frame setting. You can PLOW girls’ frames so easily. Not talking is another way to do this. You just IGNORE what she said, and then its “Follow the shiny thing girls.. Look, its a shiny thing!.. Follow it!” She instantly falls out of her frame and into yours. It all makes sense, because her emotions are saying “This is good”. Her logic is DISENGAGED enough to ignore what’s previously given her a bad emotion, in exchange for the more pleasant one (or in reality, to be more specific, the new attachment that you’ve given the emotion, since really love and hate are similar chemical reactions, but she tags it differently) Often, in deep comfortbuilding, I’ll have girls on my lap or leaning back on me or in close, and they’ll say some shit like “You’re too good at this.. You do this to girls all the time, don’t you?” I just don’t answer. I look at them, and don’t answer. Then I ease my forehead to her head, and she reciprocates, and tonguedown. Boom, shit test passed. As you said, you don’t even have to answer. You can IGNORE a shit-test, and if your frame is stronger, she’ll forget that she even said it. The PUA just pretends the HB didn’t shit test him, doesn’t say anything / do anything. This is nice, because it is EASY to do. IMHO I passed a lot of shit tests in my first year of PU, just because I Yes, good stuff man. E.g. HB: “I was going to meet you, but then BLAH BLAH bullshit ‘justification’” PUA: (Silence – like a freeze out) HB: “But we could meet tomorrow… can we meet tomorrow?” I like this. I’d change it by even mumbling some incoherent stuff about another topic after a few seconds of freeze out, so it doesn’t sound like you’re speechless from being mad or upset. This is like a flakey HB10 would do to you. Level 4: Skillful Shit Test Passing Result: HB gets more attracted and Sarge PROGRESSES Result: She is unable to shut your game down, and use logic to put the breaks on her state of emotional arousal (which she tends to do just prior to hitting a higher buying temperature).
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176 OPENING/ ATTRACTION •
Agreement and C&F response e.g. “Yeah, why is it that little powerpuffs like you like that so much?” • Emotion pump e.g. Tickle her, hit her, •
Agreement and emotion pump e.g. “Yeah… oh but baby I loooooveee you sooo much.”
RAPPORT • Aggressive reframe of shit test under your frame •
Freeze-out
SEDUCTION and POST LAY • • • test
Cavemaning Freeze-out Aggressive reframe of shit under your frame
Hope you guys find this helpful... AC
Good summary. Also, I’ve noticed that cavemanning is typically useful to escalate a sarge ONLY in certain cases. For example, I’ve done entire sarges start to lay doing ONLY caveman. This is typical for girls of low social value, like girls over 30, party girls, or drunk girls. However, in other cases, I’ll use caveman very strategically. For example, I’ll only use it if I know that what I’ll FOLLOW UP the cavemanning with is emotionally arousing enough to make her FORGET that I cavemanned her. Like with LMR, when she’s back at your house but won’t kiss. So you grab her hair back and FORCE it on her. You KNOW that with 5-6 hours that you’ve been pushing her through emotional states already, that the physical displacement of endorphins that the kiss will cause, will definetely have such a strong effect on her that she’ll ignore that you cavemanned her.
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SEXUAL PREDATOR MISINTERPRETATION Here’s some more stuff that I’ve been into lately.. I find this stuff is pretty funny, so hopefully some guys can derive some use out of it. If I had to teach guy game in under 10 minutes, I guess that this is probably what I’d talk about (along with the more important points from the 25 points of not appearing needy, because if you appear needy you’re usually blown out.. So say not the whole list, but at least not to peck in, or be too eager to touch or ask questions or have weird manneurisms that look desperate). The method: Show that girls are sexual predators, and then while chatting, keep going back to showing them why what they’re doing is just designed to take advantage of you. That’s it. Necessary props: Badboy(croatian), Style, Kooper, and David D.. I stole and meshed together a bunch of ideas from them, and tinkered to turned into a linear system for keeping girls chasing you from start to lay. It’s pretty basic.. Do it however you want. Here’s how I personally do it, but there’s a inifinite ways, within the frame itself.
Step 1: EXPANDED SEXUAL PREDATOR ROUTINE: Lay a STRONG humour anchour. They have to be laughing out of their minds, so that you can keep re-using the callback humour through out the pickup. “You know what? I can’t even trust you guys. Girls are predators. Girls are SEXUAL predators! Guys think that they seduce women and have all this power. Yeah right! Girls choose. They choose. The guys just dangle themselves in front of them thinking that they made it happen, but they don’t realize that its the girl who chose THEM. Girls are predators.. They hold the cards.. Examine the evidence. First, when a guy gets mad at his girlfriend, can he strap on his bitch boots, shove up his pushup bra, do up his hair and makeup, and head out to the bar and pull a girl home in under five minutes? Yeah right! It’s GIRLS. YOU GUYS have the power to do that, not guys! (wait while girls laugh).. What percentage of guys can do that? Look at them (point at guys).. They’re leaning in and touching, making the girls all uncomfortable, but some of the girls like them anyway.. But the guys THINK its that they were aggressive.. So what, like 5% of guys TOPS can do what 100% of girls can do. Second, girls are the only gender with one organ designed for NOTHING ELSE but sexual pleasure. (wait while girls laugh) And on that organ, there are ten times more nerve endings than anything a guy has. (wait while girls laugh) That’s why, when GIRLS have sex, they go (put hands onto hair, and do the following very convincingly, like Meg Ryan “When Harry met Sally” style) “uhhhhhh.... oooohhh.... uhhhhhhh..” (wait while girls laugh hysterically screaming their heads off) IDEALLY, THE ROUTINE IS SUPPOSED TO DO THE FOLLOWING: • • • • • • • • •
sets a humour anchour that can be re-used to keep them giggling throughout the duration of the pickup gives you fodder to do “busting them on their manneurisms” stuff.. You can now tease them on their actions, and tease them on what they say, showing that its all designed to take advantage of you provides a Kooper-style C&F roleplaying frame, for them to play in, that results in them seducing you makes the obstacles/peergroup love you, because they think you’re really fun, and it makes them trust you with their friend that you won’t be pushy establishes a frame that girls are meant to seduce guys, and its normal/cool/fun conveys that you know the deal about social interaction conveys that you know not to make girls feel uncomfortable by being pushy or trying to “seduce” conveys that you probably ARE one of the 5% of guys who can pull a girl home, because just implying that you know what’s wrong with other guys’ approaches, suggests that you know how to do it right mindfucks her into a frame where she’s becoming more sexually aggressive
STEP 2 - MISINTERPRETING THEM AS TRYING TO PREY ON YOU: Point out real IOIs (there will be a lot), as well as MISINTERPRETING things that are not IOIs, in order to mess with girls in the set who are not as into you. -(point) “Hey, you just licked your lips! (back off like you’re scared”) •
“Hey, you’re touching me.. Hands off the merchandise.. I’m just trying to talk to you.. I just want to talk, and you’re just SITTING THERE WAITING for me to talk so I can feel ready for you, and you’re not even listening to what I’m really saying... You’re just biding your time until I feel comfortable with you.” • “Hey, stop giggling at me.. It’s making me feel really good.. Stop it.. Stop being so attracted to me” (this must be in deep attraction, or sounds lame.. if its in deep attraction, it makes her REALIZE that she’s attracted” • “Hey! YOU’RE ATTRACTED TO ME! STOP IT! I JUST WANT TO TALK, STOP BEING SUCH A PREDATOR!” •
“Hey! You guys think its all fun and games.. Like you can just do this, and everything will be FINE.. But you probably didn’t even know about the hidden damage you’re doing.. Did you know that 99% of all colleged aged males who get date raped commit suicide within 1 year? Did you know that when you’re taking advantage of a guy for your own pleasure that he walks
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around depressed and alone for the rest of his life! I don’t want this to happen to me! Stop it! No no no, now you’re licking your lips again.. Stop stop stop (engaging the group, so you’re saying stop to everyone in the group individually).. Help!” For girls who aren’t as attracted in the set: “Hey, you’re leaning away but your knees are pointing at me.. You’re trickier than your friends.. You’re trying to go in under the radar but your knees are giving it away... OK she’s scaring me the most..”
STEP 3 - JUST CONVEYING PERSONALITY SO THE GIRLS GET TO KNOW YOU, QUALIFYING YOUR TARGET, BUT ALL THE WHILE RE-INITIATING STATE WITH CALLBACK HUMOUR: The idea is that you’re running a normal pickup, but using callback humour and the cocky & playful roleplaying stuff. So this gives you the maneuvrability to run a nice normal conversation, but keeping the interaction charged with this stuff. •
Use “reverse-EV” type stuff, so that she’s finding out positive things about you and building trust. The whole pickup lasts usually around 4-7 hours, start to lay. You’re supposed to be conveying personality during this time. The accusing-them thing is something you do as their state drops, or when you see a good opening to do so. It’s not the entire method, since just teasing won’t get you laid except by party girls. With party girls, just tease the fuck out of them, that’s it. • Qualify her to you, and every time you act impressed lean in, and then say “wait a minute.. what are you doing.. I can’t talk to you anymore, you’re trouble” •
Ask her arbitrary questions about herself, and then pretend like you’re hitting buying temperature, but then cutting it off because you’re afraid that she’ll take advantage of that. “PUA: What’s your sign? HB: Libra. PUA: OMG I love you (take hands).... Wait, I can’t talk to you anymore.. You’re trouble.. Go away (push her away and turn your back on her and face her friends and say “she’s trouble”)” • If she does something really impressive, pretend like you freaked out and hit high buying temperature, and jump in and kiss her, then go “aaaah.... what are you doing to me???” and turn around and move away from her like you’re scared that she manipulated you to do that. • Condition her (like Pavlov’s dogs) to keep doing things that will seduce you. She’ll grab you, etc.. Reward her with kino, or whatever. But then also run away when she escalates it too much. Mindfuck her into trying to seduce you. The girls seem to think that this is really fun, because they feel safe and on their terms, and also they seem to find it a turn-on. Bear in mind, you’re coming in super-confident (you opened them, you held court in the set), so its obvious that you have alot going for you. STEP 4 - LAY LOGISTICS: • • •
• •
Start acting possibly convinced. Her friends will start trying to convince you to stay, and they’ll start qualifying your target saying that “she’s safe PUA.. don’t worry.. you can trust her.. go with her..” etc etc.. When you walk home together, don’t be too eager to keep the joke going. At the same time, when you get her home, walk past your bedroom, and one last time say “Hey! See this is exactly what I’m talking about.. Wait in the TV room..” Then, grab your blankets, and run into the TV room.. Throw them on her like its all funny and jump on the couch in a way that makes her laugh (humour disarms escalation to pickups.. if you escalate a pickup, but make the girl laugh while you’re doing it, she’ll backwards rationalize that she wanted you to escalate). Then say “C’mere c’mere c’mere.... its cold its cold its cold...” (in a funny way so she laughs that you’re basically putting her in a very comprimising position). Once she’s on top of you, STOP TALKING.. It starts getting heavy.. Breathing starts synchronizing.. You’re breathing in her ear maybe and fingers are interlocked and you’re getting closer.. Then say “uhhh ohhh.. mmmm... ummm.. this is OK I think... uh oh..” and start kissing her. Take it from there.. If the joke is still working (it may be SO PLAYED by this point, but if it is STILL WORKING), feel free to make liberal use of callback humour to disarm any last minute resistance (misinterpret her LMR as her just trying to get you more comfortable)
**NOTE: If the joke has become PLAYED, then don’t insist on pursuing it. The whole frame/routine is always good, but don’t be routine dependent and insist on pursuing it. If its fading a little bit, just move onto something else. If its working consistently the entire time, then keep using it. Just common sense.
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ENVIRONMENTAL STATE BREAKERS Here’s something I’ve known for a long time, and been meaning to post about. If any of you guys recall the field report where I almost slept with that big fat chick that I met at the homecoming block parties on my campus, that was what reminded me of this. Just going back over it, what happened was that I met this girl in the backyard of the party, and started getting it on with her pretty hard within about 3 minutes. It was dark, and I couldn’t tell how big she was. OUCH. So we get back towards the house (I’m isolating her for full close because she lives in one of the houses), and we get into the light where I realize that she’s too big and not even as pretty as I originally thought. Now at this point, after close to an hour of foreplay, you’d THINK that I would just go for it anyway. But nope, there was no way. But in hindsight, what REALLY made it not happen? Well to me, more than anything, it was that when we went from OUTSIDE to INSIDE, the environment was so different that it literally BROKE MY STATE. Even WEIRDER though, was that once I got inside with the girl, I actually noticed that even SHE didn’t really want it as much anymore. At first I thought that it was because she could sense the disgust on my face. But in reality, now that I think about it, I think that she actually lost state because of: • • •
change in lighting change in sound (from music and partying to absolute quiet) change in the level that we were talking at
Had we moved, say, to a shed or something in the backyard, she might have gotten me to have sex with her, because my state would have been there and I would have thought “aaaah, fuck it.. sex is sex” The reason I say that is that although I was turned off when we got towards the house, and I could see that she wasn’t hot, I was STILL in state. But once I got inside, I was TOTALLY turned off (thank god), and SO WAS SHE. I noticed the SAME with Twentysix last week, when I was visiting with him in Toronto. There was a HB7 and a HB6. We pulled them from the club back to their house. The girls literally said “we want sex” - they weren’t even slutty - they were just college girls who could tell that we were decent guys, and after a debrief apparently the only guys who came up to them and just had fun and didn’t hit on them. They were even bitching that they’d had condoms in the house for 3 months, and that even though they were in college they hadn’t had the chance to use them, and their friends kept getting laid and not them and they were sick of it. Blah blah.. funny shit. Anyway, I’ve never yet had sex with any girl under a hot 7, but I was willing to jump on the sword to allow for Twentysix to hookup with this 7 because he lives in Toronto and he could have made her a GF. The thing was though, once I got back to her house, and the excitement of the club was gone, AGAIN I just couldn’t do it. I took her downstairs and took her shirt off, but then I got LMR and lockup and called it off. I told her to chill out and talked babytalk to her until she fell asleep. hahaha, this girl woke up the next morning with her shirt off, and not having fucked me. I was long gone. So where am I going with this? Girls get the same thing. Bigtime. When you pull a girl from a loud club, within seconds it can go from: •
you two are yelling at eachother over the noise, listening to music, getting hyped from the crowd, being in a warm environment
to •
dead quiet, dark parking lot, two of you talk and SOUND different, nobody is around, fantasy cognitive dissonance environment of the club is gone
It KILLS buying temperature. Now I find that many girls you pull are semi-drunk, and they won’t usually notice it. But if their buzz fades, they may call it off. Also, you see some of them coming out of state if you have to drive them back to their house, because you can’t keep up the act on the car ride. In a taxi its different, because you can makeout the whole way home. One thing that I’ll do is that when we’re leaving the club, I’ll say shit like “The music will be gone in a second.. this will be weird, this will be weird..”, so that they’ll realize it before it happens. Also key, is that I always try to isolate my girl, or bring her group, OUTSIDE. That way, we can talk at a normal volume and see eachother in a normal context. That, IMO, reduces flaking, because its not as weird when you call her the next day. Of course instant-date builds comfort also, because she sees that you’re fun to hang around outside a club context. ANOTHER state breaker though, that’s even WEIRDER is VOICE TONE. Like I’ve had girls who I was talking to in one voice tone, and when I switched it up they’ve said “What are you doing? Why are you talking like that?” And then they drop state, and I have to go back to my old voice tone to re-initiate it. You can see problems with this when you try to phase shift too early, and you slow down your speech but the girl just gets bored because her buying temperature wasn’t stabalized yet. Also, you see it with the hardcore C&F ballbusting, when you try to build connection. You just lose attention instantly.
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180 I know that DConstrukt (Lounge/Cliff’sList), Style, Toecutter, and others are really good at running their game at an energy level where when they switch gears, its not that abrupt, and doesn’t cause state loss as easily. For me, I’ve experimented with both very high and very low energy levels in my game. I’ve found that high energy is MUCH better for running sets, but also much higher flake ratio, because once you phone them you can’t keep up that energy level. Also, her response to that energy level had to be built with time, and when you phone its too INCONGRUENT when you act initially normal. Voice tone is a MAJOR way of getting girls into state though. The more fun you act (not sexual) the more excited they get. They get REALLY aroused from guys in clubs who are just fun not sexual, because they’re already horny because of the club environment, and they’re suppressing it, but when you’re fun they can’t help it. For me, in the past 2 months, I’ve been practising a really LOW KEY game. I’ve lost SHITLOADS of sets as a result, but my flaking has gone way down. Also my trust levels are higher. I’ve FINALLY got it down in the past 2 weeks. This way, I can phone girls up and its totally congruent with how I acted on Day1. What’s also interesting to me, is that girls start to PICKUP on what you’ve been doing to put them in state. And the second the REALIZE what you were doing, and pickup on the pattern, it stops working. Like if you used alot of C&F, but keep it up later, it can literally just NOT WORK. That’s why we use punishment/reward, and just pure freeze outs, which ALWAYS work no matter where you are in the game, assuming you’ve past the hook point. To me, its fascinating to try to rebuild states, or to initiate them in the first place, using my game. I can control girls states like no other - its ridiculous. When I’m gaming a girl, there is NO THOUGHT as to my ego or anything. It’s purely trying to solve a puzzle of how to escalate her states. This sort of stuff is a key peice of that puzzle for me. Anyway, I hope this stuff is conveyed over the internet. I know 80% of guys on here don’t even get the context, because their game isn’t at a point where they can build states for an extended period of time just yet. But for other guys who play the game regularly, this stuff will all ring true.
• • • • • • • • • • • •
STATE BREAKERS: music temperature lighting crowd size intoxication levels voice tone change in energy level recognition of what you’ve been doing to put her in state (her realizing its not “just happening”) peer group intervention cell phone (I’ve lost girls when their boyfriends call) a bad image association (bringing up or teasing her on a sore topic) her inadvertantly doing things that force you to chase, therefore killing your status in her eyes -*circumstances* that force you to chase, like a fight breaking out or someone puking or a fire alarm, and you get split up, but have to go find her to reinitiate, and then she realizes you weren’t as hard to get as you seemed
Any of these things can break state instantly, and kill the pickup.
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CHECKLIST FOR GAME PLAN OK, the BIG QUESTION: When you sarge girls, what is your GAMEPLAN? Do you just start asking them questions and shit like that, or do you go in with a neutral false opinion opener, and just start BLABBING AWAY? Because most guys from ASF that I meet who don’t have success start asking girls questions, and trying to get rapport with THEM. They open girls with “where did you get that”, and “what does that mean”, and “how do you get to x-location”, and “look at that thing on the wall”... shit like that, which I’ve personally never seen work CONSISTENTLY real life in field. Do you use stuff to INTRIGUE them or crack them up? What sort of stuff do you say? How do you convey HIGHER VALUE? How do you create DRAMA in your approach? Do you make them HATE you first, and THEN like you, to create more drama? Do you convey an attractive personality? Do you convey sexuality? Do you convey that you are the prize, by being C&F? Do you use PUNISHMENT/REWARD by turning your back on them to tease that you’ll leave? QUESTION: HAVE YOU EVER TURNED YOUR BACK ON A CHICK????? If you haven’t tried that, then you’re missing out, because I do it almost EVERY sarge. The key to getting really good is to just go in and talk 80%/20% initially, until the chick starts asking you your name and shit like that, and then going 50%/50% rapport/genuine/get-to-know-eachother from that point.. Also, don’t face them.. however much she is facing you, be facing a little less towards her, no matter WHAT. If she can’t hear you in a club, do NOT lean in to her. Keep talking, and either accept that she’ll leave, or make her lean in. Have you ever read the “How to actually PU for real” thing from before? Have you tried ALL of those openers and sequences? What HAVE you tried? What can you tell us that’s CONCRETE from your 300+ sarges, that we can analyze to help you?
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SEDUCE IN THE RIGHT VENUE QUESTION: A PUA with an impressive socially proofed job meets a girl. When should he convey this? A1: Early in the pickup, so that she’s interested and stays attentive to him. OR: A2: Late in the game. In fact, he drops it when he has her alone in the bedroom INTUITIVELY, we say EARLY, because once she’s in the bedroom she’s already had, right? Let’s consider in this thread a different focus. IN RESPONSE TO SEVERAL THREADS LATELY OF “SHE WAS ATTRACTED, BUT WHY DIDN’T I LAY HER?” (Paris, ZombieX, and others) Typical wrong thinking in the community - same thing that screwed me over for a long long time (you can dig up my old fuckup reports from my archive.. Read “Barfuckup part II” I think in my archived posts). Guys will argue this, but they’re flat wrong. Not to be an arrogant prick by saying “this is fact..” But honestly THIS IS FACT! :) I’ve been testing this for months now, and so has Mys and 26. If you’re a PUA, then to lay a girl, what do you need? Just to get her alone. That’s it. Any PUA can seduce pretty much most chicks that he has alone - obviously with exceptions, but in general its not difficult. So you’re trying to get her to agree to be alone with you HOW? Right now, its by getting her HORNY, and you THINK that she’ll agree to be alone with you on that account. You THINK that the way to get a chick alone is to get her HORNY enough that she’ll agree to it, when that’s NOT THE CASE. ***ASF-FALLACY: Premise1: Getting girls aroused makes them want to be around you. Premise2: Keeping them aroused keeps them around you. Conclusion: To get them to be alone with you, get them really really aroused. •
This works CONSISTENTLY.
W-R-O-N-G. ***TRUTH: Premise1: Getting girls aroused makes them want to be around you. Premise2: Exploiting the time that attraction buys you, to then establish rapport and trust will also keep them around you. It will keep the girls there just as well as if you’d hammered away at attraction, but this way they’re willing to LEAVE with you because you’re friends, and they don’t FEAR that they’ll succumb to your advances, and refuse out of antislut defense. Premise3: Most girls aged 18-23 are not willing to DELIBERATELY sleep with a guy that they just met REGARDLESS OF THEIR ATTRACTION TO HIM, unless they are either party-chicks or else in a “party-chick mentality” for whatever reason (vacation, spring break, rebound, you have some massive esoteric sex fantasy element, etc). If you plan to build a solid game, then you cannot DEPEND on these circumstances. IOW: NO you are not such a Don Juan that most girls will be so drunk off of the arousal you’ve generated, that they’ll leave the club with you knowing full well that you’ll likely seduce them. Even if they were that drunk off infatuation, it would have likely worn off in the car ride home. The times its happened were most often FOOL’S MATE. CONCLUSION: Most girls will not leave a public gathering with a guy for the intentional purpose of sleeping with him. Although they are aroused at the time, and would sleep with him if he had the ability to snap his fingers and make everyone in the public gathering VANISH, the fact is that this cannot happen, and most girls, DESPITE BEING AROUSED, will NOT leave the gathering out of sheer AROUSAL. Guys fool’s mate girls all the time, thinking that this is the way. They’ll REPORT BACK in a field report on how they did it, when they haven’t reported the zillions of times it didn’t work. In fact, the consistent way to pull girls from clubs all the time is this: • • • • •
To get her wanting to hang out with you at your place or hers, a good way is to be having fun, and to be in rapport. Except the irony is that a chick usually won’t BOTHER taking the time to get to know you (get rapport), unless there’s first some attraction. This creates the FALLACY in guys’ minds that whenever a chick is initially attracted, he has to keep PUSHING ATTRACTION in order to lay her - since it DID work on several occassions. INSTEAD, get attraction, JUST ENOUGH to get her to initiate rapport, and then get rapport with her. Don’t PUSH attraction. Get JUST ENOUGH for the two of you to have fun together, and then invite her somewhere isolated to continue the spontaneous fun.
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Get her to hang out with you either that night (frame it as “let’s be spontaneous”, which you can set traps early for that), and then SEDUCE HER IN THE PROPER LOCATION. THE BAR IS NOT THE PLACE FOR SEDUCTION.
(sorry, but so much wrong thinking on ASF for so long). • Just make friends in the bar, and get her alone. Seduce her when you have her ALONE. This is massively field tested, and has been working consistently. Give it a try, I hope it helps. Guys won’t like this post, because it will contradict what they’ve been doing for years. For me, it was easy to accept because I’m an ASF newbie, so I didn’t have bad habits engrained over years. The plain facts are that no PUA here can produce results contrary to what I’ve written, IN FIELD on HB9+ chicks on a consistent basis. While on the other hand, there’s no prob for any socially intelligent person to get rapport with very hot chicks in clubs, and getting them alone so they can do their thing. Yes, we’ve all gotten chicks all wet and horny in the clubs and gotten them to leave with us. It’s ain’t rocket science and it DOES happen every night with different chicks in any given club. But this focus is WAY more consistent, and is also good because it allows you to net the hottest HBs, who may not have given you the chance to seduce them in the club. Also it doesn’t require you to KEEP them HORNY on the drive home. Much much better focus. Give it a shot. Guys will post that what I’m saying is wrong, but I’ll likely not reply. They’re wrong, and they can’t produce these results in field. The ONLY other way is to mix rapport and attraction, which can be done effectively. Guys will also post back “you don’t need to DIVIDE rapport and attraction.. the two can be MIXED” That is FINE for some guys, but many PUAs can get girls wetter than wet within about 1-2 minutes. If I want to play fool’s mate, I can have girls so wet in under 2 minutes that they freak out or cry or totally lose it. This isn’t hard for field-experienced PUAs, though it sounds bizarre and impossible to alot of guys who haven’t seen it and can’t grasp the context. So YES attraction and rapport is divided. If you think its not, then you either don’t have the attraction abilities to move attraction that quickly, or you have a slower style. If you have a slower style then that’s FINE, but THIS POST is under a model that I’m working under, which means that I have to know when to pull back and when to unleash. So if YOUR model is different, then post under a unrelated thread about your particular model. But if you’re using THIS model, then this stuff is KEY. In conclusion, if your game is TIGHT, then why not just focus on getting her alone AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, and holding back your big guns for when you have her alone. Then sex her right then and there. Instead of this bullshit like keeping her in state for the 25 minute car ride home, etc etc etc.. which all this AVOIDS. For example, you can read old field reports of mine where I pump the chicks with C&F, and we get up to go to leave (with whatever pre-supposition usually, even though its obvious). Then if I keep it up as we walk to my car, we leave together - and its fully on. But if things stale for even a second, BOOM they flake. Like even on my way to the car, cause they come out of state. I think “TD&26 vs. dumb club chicks” might have been an old report like that, but I’m not sure. Alright, so the BIG QUESTION: How to get the chicks to leave with you without the whole sex intent thing. Obviously this is very counter-intuitive. The thing is, that you’re STILL kind of gaming them, but in a way where you’re not getting them so wet so fast. Even though you’re focusing on rapport&fun (especially fun in college, but rapport elsewhere I’d say), you’ve still conveyed that you are an attractive guy EARLY ON, when you used attraction to get her attention in the first place. **So you are in the FRAME of being an ATTRACTIVE GUY, who is simply not GAMING her at THIS EXACT MOMENT. You want to come off like a guy who is more than capable of getting her all wet, but who is COOL ENOUGH to not do it right then and there, because he’s not “slime” (as girls would say). So she has the INTEREST to stay with you, but minus the whole playerhater shit. The girl will STILL leave with you (or offer up a #, with intent to see you again) on account that you ARE attractive..... EXCEPT, she won’t get BUYER’S REMORSE by doing DUMB SHIT THAT GIRLS DO WHEN THEY’RE SUPER HORNY... ! Get it? :) When you get girls all hot and wet in the club... dude, I KNOW you know what I’m talking about, just from your posts. The chicks do all this slutty shit, and they REGRET it when they come out of state. Even if its just GRIND you, or just show too many IOIs which embaresses them later when they think back on how obvious they were about it. So instead, don’t LET them do the shit that they’ll regret, by FIRST getting into the DESIRABLE GUY FRAME to get them chatting, but then just hang with them and have FUN chilling out or whatever and getting to know eachother. STILL though, get to know eachother in a way where you’re still the money shit, not showing all your cards or whatever and not being needy (AoS style, I guess to some extent).
So the chick leaves the club thinking “This guy is money.. I’d like to see him again”
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184 As OPPOSED to: “fuck that guy got me so wet.. I must have looked like such a slut” Which DUDE, let me TELL YOU man...... there’s something alot of guys INCLUDING MYSELF forget alot of the time -> Girls get horny ALL THE TIME by guys they don’t want to fuck. Girls are such little emotional beings that this shit happens non-stop, and its NO BIG DEAL to them.. As ex-AFCs we’re all HAPPY when we get girls horny because we’re FLATTERED. Our PAST INSECURITIES makes it feel like a personal validating victory whenever a girl shows us IOIs. But now its time to GET PAST that, and realize that its so easy that its a JOKE to get girls horny, and focus is for us to get LAID. (obviously this is for more advanced guys, not newbies, but still its a good direction to start into for anyone) So getting them all wet in the club means JACK SHIT, unless they’re PARTY CHICKS (or in “party-chick mentality” like I said above, which is perfectly fine if she’s a party chick) Point is, get them wet, but PREVENT them from doing anything that will make them get BUYER’S REMORSE. For me, I used to get girls having threeway makeout sessions, grabbing my dick, fingering them, getting it on in the bathroom, etc etc etc... but it only went full-monty if the chick was a PARTY CHICK.. The “normal” chicks would hate me for it later.. Even though they couldn’t blame me, they’d associate me with all these BAD EMOTIONS.. Why? Because all of a sudden I’ve become a REMINDER of their INNER-SLUT.. :) And that’s NOT JUST for when they’d do SUPER slutty shit. Even if they’d just get super-wet, and not do anything physically slutty, they’d STILL get buyers remorse for letting a guy who’s maybe a 7 in looks, get them all wet when they’re like HB9s. Just on account that they FELT that wet, even without DOING ANYTHING about it, they STILL get buyer’s remorse. Have you ever had a great time with a chick in a club, and seen her at a mall or school later, and she acts all distant? This is what I’m talking about. So now I’m COMPARTMENTALIZED as a CLUB-GUY. And dude, you KNOW that chicks go out to club to make-out with guys and all that shit, cause they GET OFF on the prospect of WINDOW SHOPPING, even though they’re showing up with no intention to BUY. Sure they do SOMETIMES. But realistically, how many chicks have you laid SAME NIGHT using the “get them horny in the club” method? As in HOW CONSISTENT? Yeah we’ve ALL done this for the longest time. But I’m talking a CONSISTENT way to hookup with new girls from public gatherings, and not just with easier targets (IOW: FOOL’S MATE, and NO I don’t think that there’s a problem with this analogy, because we’re not calling the PUA a fool, we’re just using CHESS METAPHOR, so no need to get sensitive about it). Anyway test it out. If you learn to work it like this, you’ll literally lay practically every chick that ever likes you. I mean literally dude, you’ll bat .1000 - almost every girl that takes any interest in you, you’ll lay. Why? Because they have NO REASON to object to being alone with you, and you can just game them ALONE and sex them RIGHT THERE. After all, you didn’t push her right? You didn’t get her all wet or anything. But you’re a fun and attractive guy, and you invited her to come hang with you back at your pad. They have no reason to object, because you gave them no reason to believe that you’d wind up having sex. OF COURSE WHAT SHE DOESN’T KNOW IS THAT YOU ARE STRATEGIC, AND YOU WERE HOLDING BACK YOUR ARSENAL FOR LATER, WHICH IS IN-CON-FUCKING-CEIVABLE TO CHICKS THAT A GUY COULD BE THIS STRATEGIC, SO THEY NEVER SEE IT COMING. >something.. ok this is just >speculation on my part because >the reality you describe is un >recognizable to me. Actually this was pretty good speculation, but it happens not to be the reason.. Still, I could see where you’d get that. But nope. The key thing here is that this way just makes WAY more sense, and is getting WAY better results. Currently the lay guides, SS, DYD, or any other system doesn’t focus on this stuff.. It’s very counter-intuitive to hold back. But we’re trying to get a better focus. Anyway, just play with the frame dude. I’m sure you’ll get it (its field tested, it works).. Report back and let me know. MORE - *VERY IMPORTANT SHIT*** (this took a while to figure out for fact and review of sarge to lay results): Kissing in public is FINE as a RAPPORT TACTIC, not an ATTRACT TACTIC. So IOW, if you’re kissing her to get her so horny she’ll leave the club to sex you, she’d better be a party-chick or else you’re in trouble. But if its like the two of you are just getting really close, and its a way of establishing physical compatability and trust, then its GREAT. This is the definitive answer to back when I posted about “Not kiss closing in clubs”, last December/January. The key is that its fine IF AND ONLY IF it doesn’t cause buyer’s remorse, which in rapport it shouldn’t. (again, for party chicks its fine to sex them whenever/whereever, but I’m talking normal chicks in this post) NORMAL CHICKS:
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185 Kissing as rapport tactic in club = GOOD (shows physical compatability, physical rapport, etc) Kissing as attract tactic in club = BAD (buyers remorse) Kissing as attract tactic at home/car/hotel = GOOD (sex her right there)
PARTY CHICKS: Kissing as rapport tactic in club = N/A (party chicks don’t need or often even WANT rapport, so not much rapport should be occuring, or she’ll get turned off and LJBF you at best) Kissing as attract tactic in club = GOOD (get her into party-mode, since she’s a party-chick she won’t fight it and she’ll leave with you) Kissing as attract tactic at home/car/hotel = GOOD(obviously)
Also Proto, I agree with your format. I did this for the longest time, but now I can sense a party chick from a normal chick within seconds, so I follow protocol based on that these days. Still, its good protocol, I agree, particularly for the old model. As for the other guys who are into public sex (fucking chicks in bathrooms and all that), that’s pretty cool that you guys like that and its pretty funny.. It’s not really my thing, so I’m just going to focus on this stuff.
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GETTING COMFORTABLE SO YOU CAN WORK A big mistake I see a lot of guys making is not sitting the girls down or getting them somewhere comfortable where they can work. They’ll often try to game up the girls in areas with people-traffic, or where they’re standing and not leaning against anything. I can’t see this being very effective because the girls aren’t comfortable and neither are you. Also, because you’re standing for so long, it conveys a bit too much interest, just in the sense of “why is this dude who is supposedly the prize standing in this uncomfortable place for so long just to chat me when I haven’t even done anything to convey value to him yet?” (obviously they don’t think this exact line). In every set, I’ll want to get them seated ASAP. I’ll often hit them on a high point of a story and start backing up. I’ll back up onto the seat, and talk louder (like I walk backwards as I talk, just really smooth). Usually they’ll follow because they’re liking the emotions they’re getting from the stories. If they don’t, I motion my hands to wave them over slightly, or tease them to come over. I want to be leaning against a wall where there is no traffic, or preferably seated but the first is fine if there’s no seating around. Likewise, in loud clubs, if its too loud to go too long, I’ll blurt out “Have you ever been CUBE’ed before? It’s awesome. I ask you five questions and you’ll get back info about yourself that not even your friends knew. It’s awesome, you have to see it.” (I oversell it to move them to the couch). Personally I think its lame to offer gimmicks like that without them earning it, but I think its even worse to have to stand there in a uncomfortably loud area, and I just want them seated ASAP. I think its also key that you’re CUBE’ing her to amuse yourself to see the results, rather than to impress her in anyway. So I’ll sit them down and often times I won’t even do it, or I’ll run it and then run backwards on my regular program and continue from there. I think its interesting that the only difference between you meeting a girl who could even become your girlfriend, or not, is just that you got her logistically comfortable ASAP, so that her ASD wouldn’t go up or anything due to you gaming her so extensively in an uncomfortable location. Of course, just moving them around the room and venue changing is great also. I do seated preferably though, because I can work in closer and phase shift, or just build comfort effectively in a location where I can really work. Anyway, I know this sounds subtle, but it really makes the difference between things going well and not going anywhere at all.
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HOW TO FUCK A WOMAN WHO WANTS TO BE FUCKED BY COOLJOE I’ve been on ASF for almost a year now. Looking back on my experiences, I realize that the most useful advice I’ve gotten here is not about how to attract girls, but how to fuck girls once they are already attracted to you. That’s what this post is about: This is a summary of the most basic, non-controversial ASF advice on how to fuck women who are attracted to you. It should be especially helpful for those who are new here. First, a word on attraction. ASF teaches many good techniques for making women feel attracted to you. When done properly, negs, patterns, C&F/GM/MM routines, pAImAI, projecting sexual state, and push-pull screening are all powerful tools for building attraction. However, when done the wrong way or at the wrong time, these techniques can make you seem bizarre and can derail your social interactions. You should use them if they work for you, but most normal guys don’t need any of these techniques to attract women. If you go out and do the things you enjoy in life, and you’re around other people a lot, you will encounter plenty of women who are attracted to you. The problem is that most guys don’t know how to recognize when a woman is showing signs of attraction, or how to fuck her when she does. These are things you can learn on ASF that every man should know, but most do not. In addition to using this material yourself, you can teach parts of this stuff to your friends, without even mentioning that you learned it on ASF, and have a significant impact on their success with women too. Almost all of these ideas came from TFM or other posters. What I have done is to synthesize the stuff that has had the greatest impact on my own game. I hope people find it useful...
Outline
A. How to fuck a woman who wants you to fuck her 1. 2. 3. 4.
Recognize IOIs Isolate Escalate kino Take her home and fuck her
B. How to avoid common stumbling blocks 1. Don’t supplicate 2. Pass shit tests
A. How to fuck a woman who wants you to fuck her
1. Recognize IOIs When a woman is attracted to you, she will demonstrate it in ways that are quite obvious if you know what to look for. She will do this by giving Indicators of Interest (IOIs). Common IOIs include: • • • • • • •
Complimenting you. Touching you. Pointing out something the two of you have in common. Choosing to be with you, instead of with her friends or somewhere else. Smiling and playing with her hair while she talks to you. Asking for your name (after you have met and talked for a while). Offering to hold something for you, get something for you, or some other nice gesture.
Once a women has given you two or three of these IOIs, that means she wants you to fuck her! Women love sex and are constantly communicating to men that they want to fuck, but most men are totally ignorant of this, since they do not understand how women communicate and do not know how to recognize and interpret IOIs. If a woman does not give you IOIs, or, worse, gives indicators that she is uninterested (finds excuses to be away from you, looks away when you talk, etc.), that means she does not want to fuck you. In some cases you can turn around this lack of interest, either with social proof from other women or with other attraction-building techniques, but it is usually a waste of time to try to fuck a girl who does not want to fuck you. Just move on and find one that does. One warning about IOIs... If it is a woman’s job to be nice to you, for example, she is a waitress or a stripper, you should not interpret her everyday job performance as an IOI. For example, if a waitress offers to refill your water glass, that is not an IOI. On
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188 the other hand, if the two of you chat for a while, then she smiles and says “I’m really glad you came in here today and I got to meet you,” that is probably an IOI. Also, in some rare cases women give fake IOIs. These appear to be normal IOIs (or exaggerated IOIs), but her real goal is to manipulate you into doing something for her, instead of to have sex with you. This is pretty rare, though, and you shouldn’t worry about it. As long as you follow the rest of the advice below, she will quickly realize that you cannot be manipulated, and will either leave or will become genuinely attracted to you.
2. Isolate Once a woman has given you two or three IOIs, you should isolate her as soon as possible. It is almost impossible to build the connection necessary to have sex when you’re around a group of people. There are several reasons for this. First, other people are likely to distract her and break her sexual state. Also, if her friends are around, they might get jealous and make her feel guilty for wanting to fuck you. Finally, when it comes time to escalate kino, she might not feel comfortable kissing or touching you in front of other people. So you need to isolate her. It is usually easy to isolate a girl who is attracted to you. If you have met her in a bar or club, you can invite her to go sit with you in another section of the bar, away from her and your friends. You can also invite her to go to another nearby bar or coffee shop with you, or if she mentions any other nearby location, you can offer to take her there. It is best to isolate her right away instead of messing around with phone numbers. However, if it is impossible for the two of you to leave the group, you can get her phone number and plan to meet up some other time. This meeting should be something casual, like getting drinks or coffee, and should never be a group date or any other situation where the two of you are distracted by other people. If she is giving you massive IOIs, and seems ready for sex right away, you should invite her over to your place or somewhere else you can fuck her.
3. Escalate kino In order to fuck you, and woman has to feel very comfortable touching you. The way you make her feel comfortable is by gradually increasing the amount of kino (touching) between the two of you, always gauging her response to tell when she is ready to go further. If she reacts with tension or withdrawal, she feels uncomfortable and you need to back up, but if she seems relaxed an comfortable when you touch her, or returns your kino by touching you, then you can keep going. There are various stages of kino you should take a woman through. As soon as she gives you a couple of IOIs, you can start doing light kino like touching her on the shoulder. If this goes well, you can move to touching more sensitive areas like her hands, her lower back, or her legs (if you are sitting down). Once you get to this stage, it is time to kiss her. Most guys make too big a deal out of kissing. Once a girl has given IOIs and let you isolate her and do some light kino, kissing her is easy. Start with a little peck on her cheek or her neck. Back up and give her time to react. Then give her another little peck. In the unlikely case that she objects strongly or seems tense, you have gone too far. If she gives a more playful objection like “Do you always kiss girls right after you meet them?” it is just a shit test (see below). Pass the shit test and keep going. Escalate until you are making out. Make out for a while and have fun. Once you have been making out for twenty to thirty minutes, you can try to take her home and fuck her. If she won’t go, just keep making out with her and try again later. Be very sensual, lick her neck, kiss her lips, and play with her hair. Women get really horny from this stuff.
4. Take her home and fuck her Once you have been making out with a girl for a while, or she is giving you massive IOIs, it is time to take her home and fuck her. When you invite her to your home, it is important that you provide an innocent excuse for her to go. This can be something simple like, “Would you like to come over and hang out for a while?” or “Do you want to come over and have a drink at my apartment?” You can also invite her over to look at something like pictures from a vacation you went on, your rock collection, or whatever. It doesn’t really matter what excuse you use. If she’s ready to fuck you, she’ll agree. A common misconception is that when a guy uses an excuse like this he is being deceptive and “tricking” a woman into going to his apartment so he can “take advantage” of her. This is bullshit. All you are doing is providing an innocent excuse for her to go home with you without feeling like a slut. It would be crude if you came right out and said, “Let’s go home and fuck.” The whole idea of tricking women into going back to your apartment is ridiculous. If you bring a girl to your apartment before she has communicated through IOIs and kino that she is ready to fuck, she is not going to automatically have sex with you just because she is in your apartment. You have to build the necessary connection first, so she wants to fuck you, then invite her over. Once she is in your apartment, don’t rush things. A good rule of thumb is to kiss her for at least twenty minutes before taking her shirt off or anything else like that. If she objects to something you try, back up, and try again in about ten minutes. If she continues to object, or seems really uncomfortable, you should send her home (in a nice way). If you don’t fuck her the first time you get her to your apartment, it is probably going to take several more meets since you lose some of your alpha status, but sometimes there is nothing you can do about that. In truth, ASF advice is of limited use once you get her to your bedroom. You do not want to be thinking about tactics or techniques at lay time. The key is to stay very sensual and sexual, and get her so horny that she is dying to fuck you. At this point, you should both be in a highly sexual state, and let instinct take over.
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189 B. How to avoid common stumbling blocks
1. Don’t supplicate These two sections discuss common stumbling blocks that can prevent you from getting laid. The first is supplication. It is pathetic how deeply ingrained the concept of male supplication is in Western culture. Rock lyrics teach kids that “Girls don’t like boys, girls like cars and money.” (Newsflash: Women love men. When is the last time you saw an article on cars in Cosmo magazine?) Hollywood churns out nauseating romantic comedies in which the supplicating beta male “nice guy” gets the woman in the end. Medieval legends tell of knights fighting fire-breathing dragons just so they can marry a hot chick who got locked in a tower. History books say that Sir Walter Raleigh threw his cape down in the mud so some uppity bitch wouldn’t get her shoes dirty. The list goes on. No wonder most men think the way to get a woman to like you is by complimenting her, buying her things, doing her favors, and otherwise supplicating to her. The truth is the exact opposite. Supplication makes you unattractive. Garbage “pickup lines” like “Your father must have been a thief, because he stole the stars and put them in your eyes” and “Let me check the tag on your shirt to see if you were made in heaven” are just about the worst thing you could say to a woman you want to fuck. Buying girls drinks or any other gift before you fuck her is also a bad idea. Women want to fuck powerful, confident, alpha males who have their pick of sex partners. Buying a girl gifts or complimenting her excessively communicates that you are a weak beta male, desperate for sex, and with nothing to offer but money and insincere praise. You should never take a woman out to a fancy dinner, or any other expensive date, before having sex with her. No matter what your true motivations, she will think that you are trying to impress her, which makes you look like a weak, supplicating beta male. Your pre-sex meets with girls should be for casual activities like coffee or drinks, and you should let her pay her share if she offers. You should never buy her flowers before fucking her, and even after fucking her, only on rare occasions. Do not pretend to be interested in a long-term committed relationship if that is not what you want. It is a common myth that players “trick” women into having sex with them by pretending to be interested in marriage when all they really want is sex. The truth is that only a pathetic, supplicating beta male would try something like that. You should not be ashamed of your desires as a man. Women are attracted to alpha males who confidently and honestly communicate what they are looking for. Women like to fuck too. Finally, one of the most pathetic forms of supplication is continuing to show interest in a woman who is not showing interest in you. If a girl does not return your phone calls, or comes up with excuses not to meet up with you, do not keep calling her or inviting her to do things with you. If she is not interested in you, do not waste your time with her. Continuing to express interest only makes you look more unattractive and desperate. Move on. While you should avoid supplication, this doesn’t mean you have to be a jerk. You should not insult women or otherwise mistreat them. You can even do nice things, as long as you do them for the right reason. If the two of you are having fun together, and you feel like getting a drink and buying her one too, it’s okay to offer. Then let her get the next round, just like you would with your buddies. It is not okay, however, to buy her a drink in the hopes that this will impress her and she will sleep with you. (Women can tell the difference.) Likewise, if she is being nice to you, and you feel like giving her a sincere compliment, it’s okay to do so. But it is not okay to walk up to a girl and tell her she is beautiful, before she has shown any sign of interest, in the hopes that this will somehow make her like you. Be sparing with your compliments, and if she fails to show appreciation by smiling or thanking you, don’t give her any more.
2. Pass shit tests Women categorize men into two groups. The first is weak, beta males, who make good “friends” or possibly good providers, i.e., boyfriends or husbands who provide money and security but not good sex. The second group is powerful alpha males, who are good for sex. If you supplicate to a woman, she will assume you are a beta male. But even if you do not, she will probably give you “shit tests” to see whether you respond like an alpha or beta male. Here are the three most common shit tests, along with sample beta and alpha responses to them: Shit Test One (beta response) Her: I have a boyfriend. You: Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize... Well, maybe we can just be friends. Shit Test One (alpha response) Her: I have a boyfriend. You: I have a boyfriend too. And you know what he told me before I went out tonight? He said, “If you meet someone exciting, have a good time! I don’t want to hold you back.” I think it’s wonderful that he is so open like that, don’t you? (said in a playful tone) Shit Test Two (beta response) Her: I’m not having sex with you tonight. You: Fine, then I’m leaving! (gets angry and storms off) Shit Test Two (alpha response) Her: I’m not having sex with you tonight. You: Who said I wanted to have sex with you? Please, just because we’re having
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190 drinks together doesn’t mean you’re getting lucky. Stop trying to rush me into something I’m not ready for! (said in a playful tone) Shit Test Three (beta response) Her: Are you a player? / How many women have you done this with? / etc. You: Oh no, I’m not a player. I never do this kind of thing. Shit Test Three (alpha response) Her: Are you a player? / How many women have you done this with? / etc. You: Yo yo yo, I’m a true playa, dawg. / I lost count around 10,000 / (otherwise escalate in a cocky-funny way that yes, you are more of a player than Wilt Chamberlain) These three shit tests are so common that you absolutely must be prepared for them. But women also give a whole range of other shit tests that you cannot predict, so it is important to understand the principles behind how to respond to a shit test. The first thing to realize is that shit tests are exactly that. They are bullshit. She is fucking with you to see how you respond, kind of like athletes joke around with each other in the locker room after a game. Do not treat shit tests as logical questions or objections. If your boss at work says, “We cannot continue this project because the costs are too high,” that is a serious objection and you better respond in a logical way. (This is true even if your boss is a woman. Women are capable of being logical at work, just not in personal relationships.) On the other hand, if a girl you are going to fuck says, “I don’t think we’re right for each other because we have nothing in common,” do not start struggling to think of things you have in common. Give a witty response if you have one, or just smile and say, “Yep, we’re complete opposites!” Then continue as before, without worrying about her bullshit objections. In addition to avoiding logical responses, you also want to avoid apologizing or getting angry. Apologizing for some bullshit complaint she makes shows that you are weak, and getting angry shows that your self-image is so fragile that you place a lot of weight on her opinion of you. Stay light-hearted. If you have a witty response to her shit test, that is best. Otherwise, you can ignore it, or brush it off. They key is not to act like you care too much. You should be aware that it is sometimes difficult to distinguish a shit test from a legitimate objection. For example, if you invite a woman to your apartment and she says, “I don’t know you well enough,” a good response is “What do want to know about me?” That is a witty way to brush off her objection. But if she continues to go on about not feeling like she knows you, it could mean that instead of this being a shit test, you really need to spend more time building rapport with her so she feels comfortable fucking you. It’s a judgment call. When a woman gives you a shit test, you should consider this a good sign, since it means she is thinking about fucking you and wants to make sure you are alpha. However, if a girl gets out of control and gives you more than, say, five shit tests in a short period, at that point she’s just being a bitch, and you probably want to move on to another girl. ****RESPONSE BY TYLER**** Very nice post man. I’m quoting the whole thing for guys that are reading my archive (hope you don’t mind dude). Definetely field applied material man. Awesome. A few side comments, just to add to it: • • •
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Beware the exception to the rule -> girls who prefer validation to sex. Some girls become interested as a direct result you of appearing disinterested. As soon as you show interest, you’re blown out. Very playful shit test passing stuff, that is specific to girls who clearly want you. They don’t slam her into screening mode, so she’s still chasing, but yet aren’t slamming her either, breaking her state (girls can be sensitive to any harsh treatment, when they’ve shown you interest). Good distinction between laying a hard to get 10, and normal game. On this board we post alot on how to get the hardest girls, but if you use these tactics on girls that want you, you will blow them out. You will appear either overqualified, or insecure/sexually-unaware that you need to keep using sexual subcommunications, when she clearly already wants you. Game is build to make value adjustments, and to increase emotional arousal. If this is already the case, you need not “game”. This post focuses on how to play the scenario, and not making the common mistakes that will blow you out (this happens all the time). I’d offer only one expansion on the post, which is that although a girl is clearly into you, her friends may STILL block her come extraction time. At the same time though, wasting time disarming friends who were already cool with her leaving with you can also blow you out. Being perceptive of who she’s with is all it takes (take a quick glance), and if you see them looking upset at what’s going on (“oh, Suzie is out of control again because she’s drunk.. we have to save her”), consider possibly disarming them. At the same time, just because they’re upset doesn’t mean they’ll put a stop to it. Make the call and act.
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NOTES ON TONGUEDOWNS There were some guys confused over how to convert attraction/trust into tonguedowns/phaseshifting, etc.. particularly within the C&F context. Aside from GWM (which I think is the best laid out description of a phase shift), here are a few comments that mesh well with the C&F frame. This stuff is useful for fool’s mate (if you want to get it on alot in the venue, and extract her based on horniness), or for solid game you be the one to stop it and say “wew.. OK that’s enough” before she can, so she still takes you seriously - not as a “club makeout guy”. The reason I mention that is that if you don’t extract same night, sometimes non-party girls will be less inclined to meet up day2, with guys who they acted “not like themselves” around the night before. For me, I find that the more “real” and “true to her real self” a girl is the night you meet, the less likely she to flake, because she doesn’t feel weird having to live up to a personality that only exists inside of a club. Then you get her act like that later when she’s alone and its too late. Anyway, guys have different tactics. Here’s the stuff that I like to use. If guys have other ones, I’d love to hear them. A few moves: 1) Shoulder push / back turn around move: When she’s giggling hard, say “go away” or “stop making me fall in love with you” or “awff!... (or) ooohh!..”, etc etc (depending on what the frame of your ongoing C&F stuff is), and do the following: Push her right shoulder with your right hand, and then turn away to your left. It’s the same as a standard “turn your back on her”, except that you push her away then do it. The move here is that you’re pushing her with your right hand, and turning to your left, so its a natural movement (when you push her with your right hand, your body turns left), and she is also pushed in the direction where she’s still semi-facing you because of how you pushed her, so she’ll be inclined to jump back on you. What will happen (if you used it as a CraigSD220 style C&F Accentuator, where you use it at a point of high giggliness so she’s not logical), is that she’ll jump back on you reflexively. This is like a magnet. You push, she’ll start grabbing you. It’s very similar to a stripper giving a lap dance, rubbing her breasts in the guys’ face, and then pushing him back in his chair. Like she’s SO CLOSE, but then she pushes him back. Or how they do it with their foot. They get so close, and then kick him back in his chair. Like they’ll grab the guy’s tie, and pull him close... then push him away. 2) Kino-ping escalation moves: Girls will start increasing buying temperature (logic is being disengaged), and it will be obvious. They will do things like hitting you. This is kino-pinging, and it escalates attraction. Basically, either way until she hits you (its a tap, not hard) or pushes you, and then push her back. She’ll usually push back harder. Or, OTOH, if you sense that she’ll bite, do it to her first, and she’ll push back. Something that I’ve noticed is that you want to be the one to end the kino-pinging first. Sense the escalation, as she pings more enthusiastically, and if it drops then you stop first and turn around to move away from her. Again, stripper style shit. Very high sexual subcommunications going on with this kind of stuff. It’s the kind of stuff that most girls wished that guys knew, and the kind of stuff that gets them aroused fast. My girlfriend and I still do this stuff before we have sex, and it decreases physical foreplay time drastically. Of course, another word for this is “playful”. 3) Moving closer in move: As you keep pushing her away, she’ll be trying to get closer and closer. Keep pushing her away, but she’ll try to get closer to you progressively. Start talking like forehead to forehead, both smiling and its very sexual, moving back and forth a bit, pulling back but she keeps the contact, and then you push forward. Keep up the STRIPPER frame of “you can’t have me even though I’m so close and baiting you, blah blah”. So maybe you’ve pushed her away, with “hands off the merchandise, that’ll be 30 bucks” type stuff, or just pushing her away with the whole she’s a sexual predator type frame. She’s trying to get closer and closer to you, and you start smiling pushing her away with your head or nose. Turn away once in a while, and she’ll keep trying to come back. For an example, watch a good stripper in action, you’ll see how they do it. Good strippers are very good at sexual subcommunication.
4) Triangular gazing + go in close + head tilt + takeaway move: If you’re not familiar with “triangular gazing”, I think its a very important concept. www.google.com “triangular gazing”, or read the first chapter in Leil Lowdes “How to make anyone fall in love with you” (HORRIBLE book for game, but has great stuff on EC,
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192 triangular gazing, and useful stuff for the QUALIFY phase of a PU.. the whole book is basically how to qualify, so if that’s an SP then there could be useful info). As for the takeaway thing, go in close, triangular gaze so she’s licking her lips, tilt your head, go in, and push her away. More stripper style stuff. Ramping attraction. 5)Physical push/pull: With stuff like the spin-kiss, you can spin her and pull her in, and then push her away. Or place your hands out palms up (she’ll ALWAYS take them if she’s into you), and then pull her in close, and tilt head, smile, look down at her lips, and push her away. Or try taking one step back with one foot, placing your arms in the air slowly (so she doesn’t flinch) and open your fingers so she can interlock them. If she’s into you, she’ll place her hands in the air and interlock her fingers with yours (if you are at a place in your game where you don’t get this reaction, then I’d suggest that you are either too eager, not playful enough, or not increasing buying temperature enough, because if a girl is into you then it should be an automatic reaction that if you place your hands out for her to take them, that she does.. same goes for jutting out your arm for her to take it so you can extract). So once she has her hands in the air with yours, and fingers interlocked, drop your hands in 180 half circles so they’re down at the bottom now, and pull her in. If she says “what’s this?” say (credit Mys) “that’s the subtext (or subtitles, whatever).. we’re not supposed to talk about it..” Then pull her in close, and push her away.
6) Cheek Move (from Croatian Badboy): If you go in for tonguedown, and she dodges, run kisses off to the side of her mouth, like 5-10 from the side of her mouth, up to her ear, and then BACK to her lips. (make sense? this is hard to describe in text) 7) Keeping power position line, pre-emptively stealing her validation frame (also from Croatian Badboy): For some girls, once they kissed you they stop wanting you because they’ve gotten the validation that you stole from them with the C&F stuff. To keep it, try “You know, its not you.. I just like the feeling I get from this.. It makes me feel re-validated from a mean girl who used me before.. like you’re trying to do now.. go away, stop trying to make me fall in love with you.. blah blah” type stuff.
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CONVERTING C&F INTO TOUNGUEDOWN There were some guys confused over how to convert attraction/trust into tonguedowns/phaseshifting, etc.. particularly within the C&F context. Aside from GWM (which I think is the best laid out description of a phase shift), here are a few comments that mesh well with the C&F frame. This stuff is useful for fool's mate (if you want to get it on alot in the venue, and extract her based on horniness), or for solid game you be the one to stop it and say "wew.. OK that's enough" before she can, so she still takes you seriously - not as a "club makeout guy". The reason I mention that is that if you don't extract same night, sometimes non-party girls will be less inclined to meet up day2, with guys who they acted "not like themselves" around the night before. For me, I find that the more "real" and "true to her real self" a girl is the night you meet, the less likely she to flake, because she doesn't feel weird having to live up to a personality that only exists inside of a club. Then you get her act like that later when she's alone and its too late. Anyway, guys have different tactics. Here's the stuff that I like to use. If guys have other ones, I'd love to hear them. A few moves: 1) Shoulder push / back turn around move: When she's giggling hard, say "go away" or "stop making me fall in love with you" or "awff!... (or) ooohh!..", etc etc (depending on what the frame of your ongoing C&F stuff is), and do the following: Push her right shoulder with your right hand, and then turn away to your left. It's the same as a standard "turn your back on her", except that you push her away then do it. The move here is that you're pushing her with your right hand, and turning to your left, so its a natural movement (when you push her with your right hand, your body turns left), and she is also pushed in the direction where she's still semi-facing you because of how you pushed her, so she'll be inclined to jump back on you. What will happen (if you used it as a CraigSD220 style C&F Accentuator, where you use it at a point of high giggliness so she's not logical), is that she'll jump back on you reflexively. This is like a magnet. You push, she'll start grabbing you. It's very similar to a stripper giving a lap dance, rubbing her breasts in the guys' face, and then pushing him back in his chair. Like she's SO CLOSE, but then she pushes him back. Or how they do it with their foot. They get so close, and then kick him back in his chair. Like they'll grab the guy's tie, and pull him close... then push him away. 2) Kino-ping escalation moves: Girls will start increasing buying temperature (logic is being disengaged), and it will be obvious. They will do things like hitting you. This is kino-pinging, and it escalates attraction. Basically, either way until she hits you (its a tap, not hard) or pushes you, and then push her back. She'll usually push back harder. Or, OTOH, if you sense that she'll bite, do it to her first, and she'll push back. Something that I've noticed is that you want to be the one to end the kino-pinging first. Sense the escalation, as she pings more enthusiastically, and if it drops then you stop first and turn around to move away from her. Again, stripper style shit. Very high sexual subcommunications going on with this kind of stuff. It's the kind of stuff that most girls wished that guys knew, and the kind of stuff that gets them aroused fast. My girlfriend and I still do this stuff before we have sex, and it decreases physical foreplay time drastically. Of course, another word for this is "playful". 3) Moving closer in move: As you keep pushing her away, she'll be trying to get closer and closer. Keep pushing her away, but she'll try to get closer to you progressively. Start talking like forehead to forehead, both smiling and its very sexual, moving back and forth a bit, pulling back but she keeps the contact, and then you push forward. Keep up the STRIPPER frame of "you can't have me even though I'm so close and baiting you, blah blah". So maybe you've pushed her away, with "hands off the merchandise, that'll be 30 bucks" type stuff, or just pushing her away with the whole she's a sexual predator type frame. She's trying to get closer and closer to you, and you start smiling pushing her away with your head or nose. Turn away once in a while, and she'll keep trying to come back. For an example, watch a good stripper in action, you'll see how they do it. Good strippers are very good at sexual subcommunication. 4) Triangular gazing + go in close + head tilt + takeaway move:
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194 If you're not familiar with "triangular gazing", I think its a very important concept. www.google.com "triangular gazing", or read the first chapter in Leil Lowdes "How to make anyone fall in love with you" (HORRIBLE book for game, but has great stuff on EC, triangular gazing, and useful stuff for the QUALIFY phase of a PU.. the whole book is basically how to qualify, so if that's an SP then there could be useful info). As for the takeaway thing, go in close, triangular gaze so she's licking her lips, tilt your head, go in, and push her away. More stripper style stuff. Ramping attraction. 5)Physical push/pull: With stuff like the spin-kiss, you can spin her and pull her in, and then push her away. Or place your hands out palms up (she'll ALWAYS take them if she's into you), and then pull her in close, and tilt head, smile, look down at her lips, and push her away. Or try taking one step back with one foot, placing your arms in the air slowly (so she doesn't flinch) and open your fingers so she can interlock them. If she's into you, she'll place her hands in the air and interlock her fingers with yours (if you are at a place in your game where you don't get this reaction, then I'd suggest that you are either too eager, not playful enough, or not increasing buying temperature enough, because if a girl is into you then it should be an automatic reaction that if you place your hands out for her to take them, that she does.. same goes for jutting out your arm for her to take it so you can extract). So once she has her hands in the air with yours, and fingers interlocked, drop your hands in 180 half circles so they're down at the bottom now, and pull her in. If she says "what's this?" say (credit Mys) "that's the subtext (or subtitles, whatever).. we're not supposed to talk about it.." Then pull her in close, and push her away. 6) Cheek Move (from Croatian Badboy): If you go in for tonguedown, and she dodges, run kisses off to the side of her mouth, like 5-10 from the side of her mouth, up to her ear, and then BACK to her lips. (make sense? this is hard to describe in text) 7) Keeping power position line, pre-emptively stealing her validation frame (also from Croatian Badboy): For some girls, once they kissed you they stop wanting you because they've gotten the validation that you stole from them with the C&F stuff. To keep it, try "You know, its not you.. I just like the feeling I get from this.. It makes me feel re-validated from a mean girl who used me before.. like you're trying to do now.. go away, stop trying to make me fall in love with you.. blah blah" type stuff.
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AFTER KISS CLOSING This is after TWO MONTHS clubbing experience, and NO MORE. My word on this is NOT FIELD TESTED enough to draw CONCRETE conclusions. These are just my impressions at THIS TIME, and may CHANGE. OK, here’s where I got this from: My club game was originally so weak, it was sub-AFC no doubt. Then, as I improved, I’d start kiss-closing more regularly. Now in my mind, I thought “a kiss close is GUARANTEED non-flake, because the chick has to JUSTIFY having kissed you”.. This was my strong belief, because in STREET SARGING, when you kiss a chick within 20 minutes, she FALLS IN LOVE WITH YOU. What happened next, though, was that I got a bunch of FLAKES. I couldn’t BELIEVE IT. I’d never been clubbing before, but I just couldn’t believe that chicks would actually FLAKE on a guy who they had such good chemistry with as to make out with in under 20 minutes. I was like “WTF IS THIS SHIT??? THESE CHICKS ARE USING ME!!” If anyone recalls the fuckup report from Montreal, where the chick keeps kissing me and groping me, but won’t let me close - THAT was when I first started having THESE THOUGHTS. It was Wall_Street reply to me in that post, that CHANGED MY GAME so much. After Wall_Street’s reply, my strategy CHANGED, to NO KISS CLOSE. The idea is this: • •
chicks LOVE foreplay many chicks LOVE making out with different guys, EVERY WEEKEND
I realized this when chatting one of my pivots. I was talking about how I kiss-closed these chicks using all this STRATEGY, and she LAUGHED AT ME. She was like “hahha.. if you wanna make out with a chick, just go up and make out.. kissing a club chick is nothing to brag about.. as if you used all this STRATEGY.. I make out with different guys EVERY WEEKEND.. you know what?? so does x-girl, y-girl, z-girl (ALL who I thought were INNOCENT).. you think you’re so smart, but I bet these girls won’t talk to you the next day.. they GOT what they WANTED.. the ONLY guys who I’ll hookup with down the line if I met them in a club, are the ones who I had a REAL connection with, and didn’t just grope eachother like animals the whole night.. if I kiss a guy I know its just a club-thing” I was like “WTF is this shit??????” Of course, listening to a chick is usually NOT GOOD.. But in this particular case, what she said CONFORMED to the model of what I’d EXPERIENCED. It all made perfect sense to me, so I thought I’d FIELD TEST a non-kissclose club game. So from THEN ON, I used the “HANDS OFF THE MERCHANDISE” line, and REFUSED all kiss-closes. I focused on FIRST building attraction, and SECOND building rapport. I started getting girls CHASING me, and wondering “WHO THE FUCK IS THIS GUY WHO WON’T LET ME TOUCH OR KISS HIM???” They’d chase and chase, and try to # close ME. I was like “HOLY SHIT, I had a chick # close **ME**.. WTF is going on here??? I didn’t think this was POSSIBLE..” And ALL of them wouldn’t flake. They’d LOVE me, and show up ON TIME, and all that shit. The only FLAW with this, is that you PASS on MANY one-night-stand opportunities. Since Twentysix nor I are INTERESTED in one night stand with club hoes, this method works PERFECT. Twentysix has YET to kiss-close in a club (other than the kiss-game which is not the same), and he gets dates ALL THE TIME, with remarkably LOW flake-ratio. My THEORY (as it is NOT field tested enough, and still just a THEORY), is that when you kiss-close, you SLOT yourself into the S-UB-C-A-T-E-G-O-R-Y of guys that the chick USES as kissy-face-buddies every weekend. My THEORY is that kissing in a CLUB, is NOT ALPHA, because SO MANY Beta-males are CAPABLE of it, and do it REGULARLY. My THEORY is that it is MORE ALPHA to make her WANT YOU SO BAD (as well as all the chicks AROUND her), and then tell her that she can’t have you unless its during the DAYTIME, since you aren’t interested in LITTLE FROLLICKY CLUB HOES. This could come across like you’re banging too many chicks ALREADY, or that you have STANDARDS, or WHATEVER. I dunno, its still a THEORY. The ONLY way, is the way that COMMANDER ZAP suggested, which is to get DEEP RAPPORT and go BEYOND IT. For me, when I kiss-close now, I go into DAMAGE CONTROL. ALL I am thinking is how to FRAME this as NOT just a club-thing, and that it DOES deserve to be CONTINUED. I talk about how I don’t want to meet, and get her to convince me. Then I talk about how maybe she IS right, and we shouldn’t let SOCIAL RESTRICTIONS dictate that a club hookup isn’t a REAL connection, just because people STEREOTYPE it like that. Again, NOT THOROUGHLY FIELD TESTED YET. Probably more field tested than 90% of what goes around the board, but STILL not field tested enough. I’d like guys to THINK about it and to give me your THOUGHTS, but not to take it seriously just yet. It needs more testing by somebody with BETTER club game than mine. Now for guys like Mystery and Style, this shit may not apply, because their game is SO TIGHT. For for the intermediate level guys, it may be something to consider. All that I can report is that it WORKS for Twentysix and I.
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DISARMING LMR 1. Steal her frame: If you think she’s getting worried, stop BEFORE HER, and say things like, “You know, I’m getting the feeling that we should pause for a moment and talk” or comment on how it’s all going so fast for you. 2. The classic, that is in all the recent lay reports: Keep agreeing, but moving forward and pacing. “You’re right, I shouldn’t be unbuttoning your pants right now” “Its so bad I’m making you feel so good” 3. Riker’s Three Rules (do you use these? do you have a good script for them?) 4. Mystery turn-off: In bed, if she won’t let you do something twice, respond casually-without anger. Turn on light, turn off music, watch a cartoon. If she asks what’s up, say, “Ever since I was a kid, the idea of ‘no’ has been the biggest turn-off. I just lose everthing. It’s really no problem-we can just be friends. I don’t want to.” If you want, you can tell a story here about how in sixth grade a friend taught you a trick, and you went to a girl in class and said, “I bet I can make your breats move without touching them.” Then you bobbled them, and said “I lose.” You got into such big trouble, the principle even hit you and then suspeneded you and called your parents. So you really respect boundaries now, and when a girl says no, you assume that she means no, and just shut down. It’s no big deal. That’s just the way you are. Now, after this, either she will come to you and reinitiate or you can come to her. Try even being direct: if, for example, she won’t take off her shirt, say, “Get onyour knees...lift your arms” and just take off her shirt If you get rejection a second time, say, “I’m an adult—either we’re going to be happy, maybe even have sex, or we can play chess.” It is scary to do this, but at least in America, I’ve never found it not to work. Try experimenting by just turning off and rolling over when you get resistance, you’ll see that she will return to you. 5. I HAVE NOT USED THIS ONE YET. IT IS NEW. FROM CLIFF’S FRIEND DAVID. BUT IT IS ALSO GENIUS. Early in the relationship,he asks the HB about what her rules are, he gets her to ratify that she is spontaneous, that she follows her feelings, etc. He is laying traps so that if she resists later, she is then in the position of contradicting what she has already told you. Then, when facing LMR, he will say, “Excuse me, I didn’t get a copy.” HB: What? PUA: A copy of your rules. Fax them to me and I’ll decide if I want to see you again.” Then you trigger the traps you have set: “I thought you were spontaneous. I thought you did what you wanted. Were you lying to me?” Other traps involve getting her to ratify that she’s her own indpendent person, and not dependent on family and friends for decisions, and that you won’t judge each other by past experiences with anyone else. Yes, they want sex with you. But, you have to first take care of that internal anti-slut defense voice they have. So you develop a pretext that they can use to convince that anti-slut voice that it’s okay. Make a list of your PRETEXTS. Then seed them into the conversation early, before she’s DDB. That way, it seems only natural to go back to your place to HEAR THAT CD or BORROW THAT BOOK or GET THAT TAROT READING or PLAY WITH YOUR KITTENS or SMOKE THAT PCP or whatever you’ve got going on.
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MORE ON DISARMING LMR aight.. Here’s the dizzy-dizeeels on LMR.. This is true shit yo! LMR: If you get REAL-LMR, its probably cause you don’t have sufficient rapport. (OR you are a LAMEASS with ZERO attraction, cause chicks dig sex, and they probably wouldn’t have ISOLATED themselves with you unless they were attracted, so the DEFICIENCY is RAPPORT/TRUST.. again, unless you are SUCH a lame-ass that it wouldn’t have even OCCURED to the chick that you’d try anything, in which case none of this or anything else applies, cause you have alot of work to do on fundamentals) If you’ve got TOKEN LMR, then its just some shit you’ve gotta forget about.. read Maniac_High’s nMP for dat tight shit.. LMR-TACTICS (mys): 1) agree, up foreplay 2) freezeout 3) Riker’s 3 rules
1) agree, up foreplay: CHICK: we shouldn’t be doing this.. PUA: you’re right.. we shouldn’t be doing this.. (then continue with foreplay).. WHY? Read MANIAC_HIGH’s 2 BRAINS THEORY.. The chick’s logical brain is telling her “don’t be a slut”.. if you answer with AGREEMENT, it DISENGAGES the chick’s logical brain, and her body takes over.. and her body is LIKING it, cause the endorphins and shit she’s getting are fucken’ SWEET.. 2) THE FREEZEOUT EXPLAINED: Wanna get FROZEN OUT?? Trust me, go do this shit, and you’ll FEEL what its like. Hit up the local strip club and get a LAP DANCE.. I got one of these in Toronto last year at this place called “THE BRASS RAIL”, and the chick was all up in my shit.. feeling me up.. all that shit.. Then she said “song’s over.. want another dance?” I said “nope”, and she GETS UP, TURNS AROUND, and WALKS AWAY.. she won’t even answer my questions or make small talk or even look me in the eye.. TOTAL FREEZE OUT. Check this out to see how its done. MONEY SHIT. Those strippers have it down TIGHT. I felt like shit.. I didn’t even want another dance, but I was feeling like “hey, at least talk to me as we walk out.. you’re being so cold! WTF is this???” Seriously, as lame as it was (I was AFC, leave me alone!) it actually made me feel BAD.. like REALLY BAD.. I could feel it.. WHY? Cause that stripper-ho FROZE MY ASS OUT.. She did FULL TAKEAWAY of ALL attention.. BANNED from the garden of eden.. bye-bye TD you little bitch.. you don’t do what I want, you’re FROZEN OUT.. Want back into the golden gates then PAY UP you mark-bitch! So how do we use this shit on chicks IN REVERSE?? Oh man, this shit is EASY.. and its fucken EFFECTIVE.. If you already tried just agreeing and upping foreplay, and she’s still saying ‘no’ (even though she’s in your house), then its FREEZE OUT TIME. That’s like what Mystery says when he plays checkers. You just go watch TV, and she’ll come over after a minute of two like “what’s wrong” (hahah like WTF do you think??? I’m a GUY) KEYS: • •
don’t make affectionate eye-contact with her (think back to when you let someone down how they looked at you to be passive aggressive) change your tone so she no longer gets affectionate tone
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show disinterested bodylanguage (think back to like when you tried to pickup really hot chicks in clubs when you roll in on them with no social proof.. what does their bodylanguage look like?) stiff body when she touches you.. show discomfort with her touching you without saying it (think to when your girlfriend pissed you off, and you decided to punish her.. and she came over and pouted but you wouldn’t be nice to her)
Then if she starts kissing you again, just get it on on the couch and try to stick it in her there before moving her, cause if you directly just pick her up back to the bed she’ll come out of state.. REMEMBER this shit is all STATE-BASED.. TIME the freezeout CORRECTLY.. this is hard to explain over the internet, but once you’ve tried freezing out like 5-10 chicks you’ll have the hang of it like a sixth sense..
3) RIKERS 3 RULES: I first thought this shit was stupid, but then I tried it and its pure $$$.. Riker’s rules are: 1) I always wear a condom. 2) This is something that we BOTH want to do. 3) We won’t look back on this tommorow with any regrets. Now after it worked on this one chick who was putting up the mad-LMRzzz I broke it down to myself on why it worked. See, I figure that it addresses ALL the chick’s concerns.. 1) = addresses: she won’t have STDs (and you don’t have them cause you ALWAYS use condoms, so even if she’s just making you it doesn’t matter since you always use them), and won’t get her pregnant 2) = addresses: (besides the embedded command which I don’t give a shit about that) its a CHOICE.. like its a sort of FRAME.. it makes it more ‘mature’, like consenting-adults kind of thing.. “its something we both want”.. its kinda got that ring to it.. its “under control” 3) = addresses: anti-slut-defense.. chicks are worried they’ll REGRET it.. but framed like this, its all good.. you’re also kinda IMPLYING that you won’t ditch her ass the next day, even though you never said it.. TIMING: The timing between the freeze-out and the Rikers 3 rules is key.. If you do the freezeout, the chick will usually come over to the couch and all that shit.. so you’ve gotta play it JUST RIGHT.. Cause she’ll come over to the couch, all in this “i just wanna talk” mood.. JUST LIKE when I just wanted the stripper to talk to me as we walked out of the booth.. I didn’t really want another dance, but I just wanted SOME attention from the person who I had a perceived bond with in my head.. So when you freeze the chick out, she comes back and really just wants to talk.. Not really so much to fuck, necessarily.. But if you ASSUME THE SALE, and just run the Riker’s 3 rules as sort of the first thing you say as you start stroking her, then: 1- she is STUCK in the sex frame.. no sex = freezeout continues 2- rather than just trying YET AGAIN to fuck her, you’re ADDRESSING WHAT WAS PREVENTING IT before continuing to push her.. So anyway, this shit is all just timing... DO NOT break out the BIG GUNS without trying #1 (agree, continue foreplay) FIRST.. LIKEWISE, if the chick comes over to the couch and starts unzipping your pants, don’t bust out the Riker’s shit.. But she’s only gonna go down HARD, then bust out all three with PROPER TIMING, and its RARE that a chick who dug you enough to isolate herself with you will not want to have sex. Just remember though, that like I wrote up top, RAPPORT is the KEY LMR-destroyer. So avoid ALL THIS if you can through SOLID GAME.
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AFTERBAR LATENIGHT FOOLS MATING TECH I talk about solid game a lot in my posts, because it interests me and because its what's necessary to avoid the player trap for the rest of our lives. But at the same time, I do fool's mates (same night lays within around 3-5 hours) weekly. Lately, its been nightly. Our routine is that if we don't pull, we go down to the all night diner and pull girls out. The difference between this and a normal set, is that you have to convince the girls to come home with you within about 10 minutes of meeting them. Sounds tricky, but really its quite easy. This is how I have done fool's mates several times a week, for the last while. It's my personal style that is getting me these results, and other guys have their own styles. A few guidelines for how I personally do it: -don't worry about Qualification phase stuff.. just PLOW them with high octane C&F material, so they become so disassociative that they can't think straight. Use the little sisters stuff, neighbours stuff (btw, addition to neighbours routine is to say you'll come over and borrow eggs or sugar), PVC Devil outfit, best friends, Taco Bell feed the world to save them from terrorism, South Park Routine, you and I would not get along, etc etc etc... -oversell something you have at your house.. "we're going to check out x-thing.. its AWESOME.. its SO COOL.. you HAVE TO SEE IT.." Oversell the fuck out of it, to disarm ASD. Do this on high points. -Use drunken pull style routines. Let her walk ahead, and then grab her and pull her back. Tickle her. Pick her up over your shoulder. Make stupid animal noises right in her face so she's giggling. Like as in "oink oink.. moooo.. ruff ruff... MEEEEOWWW.." Yell funny stuff at her accusing her of things.. Say "you're funny", and "you are super fiesty" over and over.. "you're little player girls.. go away player girls.." Talk in gibberish right into their ears in funny ways. Make C&F roleplays that make no sense at all, like you're mischievous little muschins.. Keep her laughing for the 10 minutes it will take you to get her home or to your car. -walk in french armlock, which is easy to get because you already said she's your little sister and you'd walk arm in arm down the street in NYC, and every girl would be jealous of her. -if they freak out, either go full rapport mode and say "Hey, if you're not feeling totally comfortable, I'll catch you later.. its all cool... totally, its all cool.." or just pump more buying temperature, or do freeze outs and withdraw rapport and go dead silent. OK, now what will happen is that the girls become very disassociative from this. The second one girl is ready to go, just pull her right there and your wing's girl will have to come along for the ride. Tell your girl to scream at her to come, and to not let her ruin the fun the two of you will have because the thing you're doing is AWESOME. And they'll get back to your place, and now you have to let them calm down. This sucks, because you have played improper game by pumping them up so much. Keep the stimulation going, but slow it down more and more. Then regulate it back down to normal, but keep the interaction charged in the same way that you would on a day2. I find the absolute best way to calm girls down without losing state is to go into teaching style IVDs. Like I teach girls the trust-test, or Cs vs Us, or Style's EV, or anything about social dynamics like how to tell if someone is lying or why people interaction in different ways because of different stimulus', or the CUBE, or palmreading if you know it (I don't yet, but want to start using Toecutter's Palmreading routine). From there, you can start getting her qualifying herself to you, by talking about shit that you hate about girls. I'll post a separate thread on this. Then get her talking both with the CURIOUSITY frame that I posted about early, or just plowing stories and making her tell you her stories. Use 1 minute high octane stories spurratically, every five or ten minutes to ensure that the buying temp stays pumped. By high stories, I mean stuff like the badass kid story, that you would normally use early in a set to get them all giggly. About 15 minutes in, you'll usually make out. I do this by sitting beside her, and continually keeping eye contact and pushing in for the kiss closer and closer. I also pull back on high notes especially if she says something wrong and I bust her on it. I also pull back if I'm just thinking about something intense, so she can FEEL that I am not sold on her yet. I go in for the kiss eventually, and if they won't give it I'll either force it by saying "Shhhh.. hey.. shhhh..". I also sometimes try and so long as she doesn't move away from me, I continually do triangular gazing, and playfully accuse her of trying to make me lose focus (as in she's turning me on) until eventually we make out. This is so key. I continually throw out stuff I don't like when girls do, so they qualify themselves to me that they aren't like that, and to convey that I have standards. I also disagree with some things that they are saying, in a way where its easy for them to change their position. So in other words, I disagree with it in a way that they can clarify that I really think what they think. This conveys that I was willing to disagree, even though we didn't actually disagree. I have a digital camera, which is what I use for bedroom extraction. I say "Check this out" and bring them in and show them the pictures, some of which include HOT ex-girlfriends of mine to intimidate them. From there its standard late game, which I have posted about at length in other posts. Anyway, this is a basic formula that I use repeatedly to pull girls at latenight. I hope you guys get good mileage out of it.
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BOYFRIEND DESTROYER I see that some of the PUAs of the group have been putting out some interesting material lately (BREAKBEAT GOLD CLUBBING, and GUNWITCH’s new stuff that I am proofreading right now for grammar), and I appreciated this stuff and I felt compelled to put out some of my good stuff, to follow suit. Thinking about my situation this week with my ex-GF, and how I will certainly be doing some BFdestroying very soon, I thought that the bros. might be interested in having a look at my potent and thoroughly field tested BFdestroying techniques. (I’d better get some good replies on that email help I asked for guys, its actually important to me). I want to add, that I see nothing wrong in attempting to BFdestroy a relationship, because it can hardly be a good relationship if some dude she just met was so easily able to break it up. In the case of a marriage with young children, however, I might not be inclined to use this stuff. Comments always welcome. My potent BF Destroying routine, in all its evil glory: I have used this for 5 years, and seen if work effectively for both myself and for friends who ask me to BFdestroy on chicks that they want to get with. I have seen this work on all forms of commitment (marriage, engaged, BF/GF, FB that she’s attached to). This stuff is more geared towards prompting an actual breakup, than a ONS (though its worked WELL for ONS also in -manycases). I’ve read MrSEX4uNYC’s stuff on that, and its all you need. So if you’re just trying to make yourself sexually available to commited chicks who you sense want you anyway, this stuff is hardly necessary. In that case, just do a ctrl-f search for “boyfriend” in NYC’s archive, and you’re golden. For HBs in satisfying relationships (ie: getting sexed well, getting emotional nurturing, guy is challenging yet fair) that is your only option, as no amount of BFdestroying will do shit.
Background - a few things to remember: 1) 2) 3) 4)
5)
6)
When BFdestroying you walk a tightrope between evoking too many bad feelings and having them anchoured to you, and getting the chick to want to dump her BF. Don’t forget that your end goal is to f-close, not to break her up for some other dude to enjoy. It is preferable that you don’t make it appear that you want her to dump her boyfriend. Rather, make the idea appear to be something from within her (more of a Socratic thing, than a direct thing). While BFdestroying, you must direct the convo. to make her prompt you to tell her how you would treat a woman. Make her work it out of you, because she’s worked up, and wants to know if she’s got a fair deal or not. You must REFRAME all behaviour to appear like insecure nice guy behaviour. Even behaviour that -WE- as ASFers would use on girls (such as not agreeing to LTR) is to be REFRAMED as being nice guy behaviour, as someone who is too afraid to be decisive and go for what they really want, since they are too afraid that they will lose it once they’ve been emotionally vulnerable (as will be explained below). All behaviour can be REFRAMED. By making the guy look like a “NICE GUY”, you are making him the most sexually unappealing guy conceivable. Once you’ve done this, there is NOTHING that he can do to get back into her good books, as you’ve put him into a predicament where anything that he does will be interpreted by his GF as being insecure. So, if he’s too distant, and he makes up for it by buying her flowers -> he’s insecure. If he’s too needy, and he makes up for it by getting a life -> he’s insecure. You are trying to DIFFUSE his outer glossy shell, and give the girl a window into his inner workings, so that he no longer appears “mysterious” in any way. You make her understand him so well, that she likes him more as a person, but no longer has any sexual desire for him. Rather than re-explaining EVing, I’ll just quote some MrSEX4uNYC archive, to give the basic frame that you’re working with WHILE you are using the stuff that I’m mentioning. Without using this at the same time, my shit is USELESS: “A major point though is that if her relationship to her boyfriend was so good, what is she doing sitting out for coffee with you? This does not need to be stated by you. It is obvious. Your job is to find out what SHE wants from you and how you plan to demonstrate that you can provide it to her through your stories about yourself. Of course you need lots of stories about yourself dealing with women in the same fashion that she likes to be handles herself. This stuff seeps in and makes her think of you as “her type” without you even complimenting her once.” (MrSEX4uNYC)
The tactic: What you’re looking to do here is tear the guy down to a NICE GUY, while making it look like you’re actually STICKING UP FOR HIM! Your goal is to make him one of those guys that a girl would go out on a date with, like as a person, and feel bad for having to LJBF at the end of the night when he tries to kiss her at the door. So how do you do that? Almost invariably, LTRs have certain problems (which any of you who’ve had LTRs are morbidly familiar with): • • • • • • •
jealousy related spats (KEY) neediness failure to commit or being too distant abusive behaviour (be it physical or mental) psychological withdrawal, to gain certainty in the relationship (ie: in LTRs each party will withdraw to see if the other will pursue periodically, to assure themselves that the LTR is solid.. this is dimestore psychology, and easily observable in any relationship) being irresponsible (not holding up share of chores, etc.) not being assertive in bed (KEY)
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being into S&M and other stuff in bed, that the girl thinks is too far out getting angry/frustrated when he initiates sex, and girl is not in the mood (KEY) being too predictable, not passionate
OK, there are some basic ones. I will now break these down to show you how I would roughly respond to any of these complaints, in a way that I appear to be sticking up for the BF, but am inadvertantly BFdestroying him. This is not the sum total of the routine, but simply the raw fuel that you are employing, while using standard ASF kino/bodylanguage/tonality etc. Remember, that you may not necessarily want to start escalating your sexual state, until she is convinced that her BF is lame-ass, otherwise she may potentially realize that you are trying to pull one over on her. This is not the rule, but simply something to be considered based on your evaluation of the circumstance. Jealousy: “You have to understand that this guy really appreciates you, because you’re probably the best girl that he ever got, or ever will get. I know that... you care about this guy (maybe sp)... but there’s just a certain equilibrium where if you’ve done this guy a favour by being with him and he’s not equipped to handle it, since he knows that he’ll never get a girl like you again if he walks out, that he’s just constantly frustrated and panicked that you’ll leave. It’s not his fault. Neediness: “You’ve got to understand that for this guy you are his entire world. He cares about you so much, that everything else in the world is meaningless to him. You are his only source of pleasure, and without you he knows that...he’s nothing. You can’t blame him, he just doesn’t have anything else going for him, so he needs you.” Failure to commit: “It’s not that this guy doesn’t love you. He does. Its just that deep down he has a fear that... you’re too good for him... and that you’ll realize it and be like, you know....you just have to dump this guy.... and then he’ll be left emotionally destroyed because he made himself vulnerable. Yes yes I know that you wouldn’t do that to him, but its just that with (x,y,z into consideration - bring up imbalance struck earlier in the convo) he knows that you could get other guys (SP)...like me...I just think that he’s not an emotionally secure person, and you’ve gotta cut him some slack.” Abusive behaviour: “It’s not that this guy doesn’t love you. Its that he loves you too much, and just can’t handle it. He’s not emotionally available, and because he knows that you’re the best he’s ever had, he can’t handle all of these things that he’s going through emotionally. All his life he probably wasn’t very good with women, and women weren’t interested in him.. So now that he’s got this girl, he doesn’t know how to handle it. (plus use the he doesn’t want to be emotionally vulnerable, because he’s such a loser ass that he can’t handle it as per above etc.) Periodic Psychological Withdrawal: “(use combinations from material I’ve written.. Rather than downplaying it for the perfectly normal behaviour that it is, magnify it by making it appear to be a sign of insecurity, that is typically displayed when nice guys who can’t get girls get stuck into a relationship with a girl that is too good for them)” Being Irresponsible: “Its not that this guy doesn’t -want- to do these things. Its just that he’s so overwhelmed by all of the things that are going on, that he just can’t keep up these responsibilities. Yes yes, I know that x,y,z aren’t that much, but he’s not in an emotionally healthy place right now, and he just can’t handle it (you mirror this against yourself, the image of a REAL/STRONG/COMPETENT man, basically trying to make him seem like a little boy)” Not being assertive in bed (THIS IS KEY, AND IS VERY OFTEN THE BEST ONE TO USE - VERY COMMON) “It’s not that he doesn’t want to excite you. It’s just that he’s so overwhelmed being with a girl like you, that he’s not equipped to handle your sexual needs. It’s like the typical case of the rich daughter who marries the labourer. At first the labourer is so exstatic to have this gorgeous girl (point to her) wanting him.. But in the end, he cheats on her with some white trash mullet haired girl, because he knows that that’s who he really belongs with, and that’s who makes him feel good about himself. You shouldn’t hold his lack of assertiveness in bed against him, because its just a reflection of his insecurity. With the right girl, any guy can be a stud in the sack .. its not hard, you just have to take CONTROL (perhaps show some controlling kino here, to get her turned on).” then transition to some HOT sex talk, where you inadvertantly spill how much you need to take control in bed. Guy into weird stuff in bed (S&M etc) when she hates it: “It’s not that this guy doesn’t love you.. Its just that he uses these things to objectify you, because he knows that he’s never had a girl like you, and probably never will once you’re gone.. so he doesn’t want to “make love”, because he doesn’t want to make himself emotionally vulnerable to you.. but he still wants sex, so he has to turn it into a perverse game, to keep his insecurities from overwhelming him” Guy gets angry when he initiates sex and she’s not interested (ANOTHER KEY ONE TO PECK AT.. VERY COMMON) “The thing is, that this guy loves you, and he’s just exasperated that.... he’s completely impotent to turn you on.. he just can’t turn you on, and he knows that, so he gets frustrated.. Its like when you want to have sex...withme.....its like, I know that its your job to get the girl turned on. Girls need a man who knows that they want, and how to get it. When a girl says ‘no’, but at the same time she loves this guy (sp), it often means please turn me on more.. please, I want you to be more attentive to me.. (this totally mindfucks the girl, as it is an EXTREMELY COMMON part of the LTR cycle, that once sex becomes stagnant -> foreplay nearly ceases. Because chemically women are addicted to OXITOCINS which are released by touch, and it is more testosterone that they get from sex, most women will hate sex once it degrades to a lack of foreplay. However, most LTRs have this problem, so you must exploit it.. I’m ceasely amazed by how much girls in LTRs PERK RIGHT UP the second that you imply that you’re attentive even in LTRs)
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202 Being too predictable, not passionate: “Its not that this guy doesn’t love you. He does. Its just that he’s so comfortable with you now.. and feels so close to you, that you’re more like a sister to him.. Like a special sister, but someone who he doesn’t feel that he has to do all these things for anymore, because your relationship is so secure and so predictable.. there’s no need for all that excitement, because he knows that nothing will change.. Some guys deal with true love that way.. I dunno, for me, I think that if you really love someone, you have to do x,y,z (established earlier in convo) to keep it fresh. Like if you are really a real man who loves his woman, you have to do x,y,z to keep it fresh. But really, its not that he doesn’t love you, its just that he loves you so much that he doesn’t see the need.” ***So, remember that you are focusing on destroying the guy’s sexual appeal, by making him seem too familiar, and easy to understand. People generally get ‘one-itis’ for those who are challenging and hard to understand. By making the BF seem both easy to understand, and very insecure/nice/beta in the meantime, the relationship will likely not last the week. Just remember not to be the LJBF who counsels her on her problems. Instead, you are constantly getting her worked up by doing the EVing that MrSEX4uNYC discusses in his archive. Ideally, she must be getting both turned off the guy by what you’re doing, and getting turned on by YOU, and the conversation NATURALLY LEADS TO HOW YOU ARE DIFFERENT, AND -IDEAL- FOR WHAT SHE WANTS. The natural flow of conversation must indirectly lead to exposing your highly desirable qualities. She is getting turned on by the DIRECT CONTRAST between you and her boyfriend. You do not offer your qualities directly, but highlight them by pointing out that you understand where her BFs negative qualities are insecure. Getting her to beg you to tell her how you treat women is all the better, and if it is going well can likely be expected. Act reluctant to tell her if necessary, though not to the extent that you are sending an SOI that her getting with you is not a program that you’re down with. Once you have her worked up, use standard ASF material to move in, and its a done deal. *********ADD TO BF DESTROYING********* 1) Never prod the HB that you’re PUing to talk about her BF. 2) Ideally, it should come up as LMR, while you’re beginning to apply kino. If you are the kind of PUA who pries for these facts about her relationship status, you are probably not doing things quite right (IMHO). 3) When it does come up (ie. “take your hand off my tit, I have a BF!” ... lol, well not quite, but you get the drift) that is the time to address it. Your sarge should always be moving forward, BFdestruction is a temporary pause, but don’t make it the essence of the sarge. 3b) Now, sometimes it comes up before you have applied kino. Read LOVEDROP’s fucking MINDBLOWING 8 reasons that she mentions BF, from the ASF FAQ. Keep those in mind, as they must always be considered. Addressing the BF issue is sometimes a mistake, as she may want to fuck you regardless. So don’t get ASF-infooverload. Keep her mind away from the topic, until you can’t avoid it. Then use this stuff. 4) As I mentioned, you MUST be careful not to fall into therapist LJBF zone. I have fucked up here many times in the past. Sometimes, I have wound up convincing the HB, but getting her kinda pissed at me. Winning the battle, losing the war :( ... BUT, then a few months later, she wants it from me.. so who knows. But, I don’t think that this is ideal for FAST seduction. 5) If she doesn’t have any probs with her BF, this stuff is probably not going to break her up with him. Sorry. In a FRESH LTR, there’s usually little hope of breaking up any girl with any sense of class (I know, social labels, but you see what I mean.. contrasting white trash girls, who will fuck any alpha guy). 6) Most LTRs, however, do have these problems. So, try to use the “I’m sticking up for you BF” style, to get it to come up, should it be necessary. Key in on her smallest comment, and peak her interest by doing the indirect CONTRASTING of your alphaness to his betaness thing that I mentioned in the post. The key is to make her work it out of you, with an offhanded comment that peaks her interest. 7) This stuff is good (fieldtested), but its not foolproof. It’s something for your arsenal, but not the be-all-end-all. Try topping it off with an RJ BFdestroyer... I haven’t tried that yet, but who knows? MORE BOREFRIEND DESTOYER SHIT Actually before I start, as the bros have always said, the VERY BEST Boyfriend Destroyer is just to SEDUCE HER and FUCK HER. So this stuff is just extra ammunition. BACKGROUND/THEORY: girls may have all these rules and games they play, but at the end of they day they will cheat FASTER and with LESS GUILT then men do. Me, if I’m in an long term relationship, my word is BOND. I will cheat for NOTHING, because I won’t abuse of a trust. But a chick, YEAH RIGHT!! :)..... From what I can tell after reading some of my pivot’s Feminist Lit, its often based on RESENTMENT for NEEDING support from their beta/provider guy. There are exceptional women of course, but I’m making sweeping generalizations here since this is an internet-post. chicks have this weird thing, where they separate beta/provider with alpha/seducer.. So the majority of them (statistically) are with beta/provider archetypes. If you present yourself as a the kind of guy who is just the fantasy or whatever, she’ll cheat. It’s like girls who have boyfriends - they’ll almost ALWAYS get it on with another girl if the opportunity arises and they’re curious, because its a FANTASY and not cheating.. my old pre-ASF LTR who I stole from her boyfriend - I elicited from her that she likes ROUGH DOMINANT SEX.. So when I had her alone, I started upping kino and dominating her.. She cheated NO QUESTION, and complained about how its just “NOT FAIR” that her boyfriend who she loves so much just can’t do what I could.. She had NO GUILT, and even was affectionate with him in front of
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203 me the next day. Eventually she cracked and became my LTR, even though she HATED me as a person since I gave her so little attention, but was simply to drawn to me. (this she told me after we broke up) SHE COMES FROM THE FRAME THAT HER BETA NICEGUY BOYFRIEND IS “LUCKY” THAT SHE WOULD STAY WITH HIM, AND THAT HE SHOULD BE “APPRECIATIVE” THAT SHE GETS HER FANTASIES TAKEN CARE OF WITHOUT HER DUMPING HIM ALL TOGETHER “HE’S REALLY NICE, AND HE LOVES ME.”
TACTICS/PRACTICAL: alright, the BEST SHIT for presenting yourself as her FANTASY basically plays off where my old BFDestroyer material left off.. 1) Go to the bookstore, and skim through the book NANCY FRIDAY “MY SECRET GARDEN”. This is PRIMO FODDER to get your mind wrapped around how FUCKED UP the repressed female sexuality is. Just do it. NOW. :) (seriously though, its wicked fodder, just check it out, its a cheap book and not long) Be warned that this book is seriously fucked up, and may change your perspective on women if you’ve never encountered anything similar before. When EDDY reads it, he’ll freak out and yell “WTF.. WTF???” and THROW the book across the room in DISGUST.. He’s thrown that damned book like 30 times since buying it. 2) When you’re with chicks, play it up like you UNDERSTAND and are NON-JUDGEMENTAL to their desires. Do this SUBTLEY, or you will come off try-hard or needy or attention-whore. As you can read in “The Sexual Key”, women are drawn to insights about their inner potentials and hidden depths. So when you discuss this, they are FASCINATED, because its the same effect as palmreading or the CUBE. You are telling them things about THEMSELVES, so its very SIMILAR to a COLD READING. 3)
Some wicked fodder includes routines like (I got the base for these ideas from other people, but do them in my own style):
BEING IN TOUCH WITH YOUR TRUE BISEXUAL NATURE ROUTINE: “its fascinating though.. because people in society have so many hangups (“hangups” is a WICKED word, btw, when discussing sexuality. USE IT, it is PRIMO SHIT) about all this different shit.. like they’re trying to categorize people and all that.. its funny, like, these psychologists.. they this incredible study where it was like, they took pornography, and showed it to men and women.. and they showed them 3 things 1men and men having sex 2men and women having sex 3women and women having sex Now then gay men of course liked the man on man. And the straight guys liked the men with women, and of course they liked the chicks with chicks too (they’ll shit test you for this, and you make NO EXCUSES for liking woman on woman porn.. you just slyly smile and keep going).. But what was most fascinating, was women....... of course women liked watching intimacy between a woman and a man.. but what was surprising was that 80% of women also felt aroused by watching a woman with another woman (girls will all go “yeah I could see that” - except uptight girls usually)... So the thing is, its not really whether or not women are bisexual or like “DYKES” or some label like that.. but its more like... you know.. the inner essence of the woman is just THERE.. and its HOW IN TOUCH she is with it, and how AWARE of it she is that’s the variable..” (another great aspect of this, is that if they sense your PUA vibe, they know that you can provide a 3-some for them, while their beta AFC BF cannot PU girls to participate in that with them) WOMEN ARE SO OPPRESSED BY SOCIETY, AND ARE SO CONFUSED - RAPE FANTASY ROUTINE: “(INSERT A VARIATION OF NATURAL WOMAN PATTERN HERE, BUT A SHORTER VERSION THAT JUST CUTS TO THE MEAT).. so the thing is, its like, girls can sometimes just have fantasies like that are totally different from what they -really- want, but still maybe wish that their guys could go with them.. Like there’s just so many constraints imposed by society.. and its like, alot of girls can have fantasies about “being taken”.. sortoff almost like rape fantasies, where its like not necessarily some scary creepy guy, and obviously they don’t want that to actually happen.. but like, just that fantasy about “being taken” and having it totally not in your own control, and it just excites you so much because its just so different than the same thing as always... like you really don’t want it, but you’re just so taken away by the whole feeling and experience of it.. and its like, some guys they recognize that and just totally can give their girlfriends those fantasies by just being ADVENTUROUS and MORE EXCITING.. just like totally enacting GETTING IN TOUCH with their girlfriends fantasies, and finding out just what it is that they are.. and totally connecting on a more intimate level, because they understand eachothers desires more, and just totally connect through exploration of the depths of their sexualities..” PAYING THEM FOR SEX ROUTINE: All girls LOVE the idea of being paid for sex, no matter how much they say they dont’. Use KOOPER COCKY FUNNY FRAMES and say that you’re a PIMP, that the other girls in the set are your hoes and they should rate eachother’s hoe ratings, and say what you’re going to make them do.. It’s ROLE PLAYING, so they may be inclined to cheat on their BFs because it fits that fantasy, and its all roleplaying anyway.
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204 So, basically, show them that you’re more WITH IT, and have less HANGUPS, than their BORING NONADVENTUROUS boyfriend has, and that if they get with you, you won’t JUDGE THEM, and that you’ll actually UNDERSTAND and CONNECT with them. Since the MAJORITY of LTRs have GARBAGE REPETITIVE SEX, they’ll crack from this on a consistent basis. Again, like the old BF blaster shit I wrote, this basically just gets INSIDE THEIR HEADS, and contrasts you with their boyfriends FLAWS. Keep pumping them with C&F, which is the archetype of the male highschool popular boy / quarterback, etc.. They’ll see that you’re what they NEED sexually, and you’re IN. :) MORE BOYFRIEND DESTROYING – EXAMPLES 1) I’m at the bar with Manifestis, and we’re just chilling going around high fiving people and clicking drinks.. chatting up everyone, especially guys about the SuperBowl in SanDiego and all that, ignoring their chicks kinda.. the girls finally start coming over to us, trying to get our attention.. One chick rolls up on me and initiates me by touching the leather strap with fake bullets that I have around my arm (I am all peacocked as usual now).. “hands off the merchandise!”.. she starts saying its sexy, and could be a belt for Alley McBeal... “oh, you like girls??? we’ll team up and help eachother pickup chicks tonight then..” .... She is laughing and all that, but I eject her to keep playing the hard to get shit that we’re field testing tonight.. She comes up on me later and starts holding my hands and all that.. I brush my face up to hers, and she is rubbing my arm.. I leave again.. At the end of the night, she’s with her FIANCEE, and they are walking kinda to leave.. She breaks off from him, and CRAWLS through the crowd PRETENDING to be trying leave, even though its the least efficient way, and her fiancee is wondering why the fuck she did this.. She rolls up on me, and asks me my name.. Now because I have AI (approach invitation), this means NO GAME WHATSOEVER.. just neutral chat ala gunwitch, since she’s in sexual state.. Here I use my latest BF Destroying techniques.. she asks me if I’m gay (NUMBER ONE IOI WHEN PEACOCKING IS IF THE CHICK WANTS TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE GAY).. I say that I’m into ANYTHING (not true btw), and do my bi-sexual-is-normal routine.. she tells me that she’s into girls, and her fiancee doesn’t know.. she even has sex sometimes with the chick she’s with.. ME: your problem is that you need a man that can help you to find other chicks to be with.. HER: I know, but he’s just such a nice guy.. ME: he is.. its not his fault.. he wants to do his best for you.. I think that you should definetely marry him, cause he’s such a nice guy.. its not his fault that he can’t find girls for you, he’s just so insecure around a woman like you, and he knows that he won’t get better.. she’s he’s afraid to open up to you.. HER: I never realized that.. OMG you’re right.. ME: imagine if you had a man who could find other girls for you, because you just knew that he was so in touch with his sexuality that girls would be drawn to him, and you could explore all of those hidden potentials.. HER: you are the most sexual man I have ever met.. I NEED you to meet me tonight after my fiancee goes to sleep.. Here Manifestis is occupying the fiancee, who now has his arms wrapped around her, but can’t here the convo cause she’s facing me and not him, and the music is blanketing our convo so he can’t hear it.. Manifestis chats him up, while I make out with his fiancee while he is holding from behind.. (what a SCANDELOUS ASS HO!!) Anyway, we’re doing PU this week to get Manifestis up to speed, so I made a meet close that I already flaked on.. Meanwhile other chicks were approaching, and kissing me and hugging me.. This other chick who I approached earlier came and sat next to me, drawing guys in to social proof herself, but kept looking over at me non-stop.. Her older brother was there, and earlier had tried to CB me.. HIM: I’m her older brother.. ME: OK, I guess I’ll leave then.. HIM: no no its not like that homie.. I’m not like that.. damn, I never realized I was like that.. you seem like a great guy.. So now he’s telling her to get with me and shit.. funny shit.. good technique maybe (needs more testing of course).. She’s getting jealous from the other chick kissing me and hugging me and shit, while Manifestis is just chilling social proofing us, and cracking up (he’s very good at mingling for sure.. much better than I am) WHY are chicks approaching me on this night, and not others in the past?? I’m DOING something here.. but you have read careful to see it.. I post almost always only FRs where I personally learned something, since ASF is my personal PU journal.. 1-look at the takeaways, and the contrast between staying in set as opposed to mingling.. 2-look at how I created a TEAM UP world with her “we’ll PU chicks together” 3-look at how I played hard to get “hands off the merchandise” 4-look at how I disarmed the brother with the “I’ll leave then” direct line 5-look at how I did NOT use ANY game when I spotted AI (this is a crucial revelation, that many don’t understand and overgame as a result) 6-look at how I was able to kiss the guy’s fiancee, while he’s HUGGING her, by having Manifestis occupy him, and by drawing her in with the BF Destroyer stuff (is posting an FR where a technique is used considered a repost?? I didn’t think so, as far as I knew) 7-look how we used social proof to make the other girl jealous and keep looking over, and how by doing the mingling we had people coming to us.. True, nothing insane or anything.. but do most FRs here have more content than that? Do I have a higher standard to live up to? What if there wasn’t anything to criticize? This was very different for me, because the entire DYNAMIC of the club-sarge was different than the usual SETS. Totally different style. Remember I haven’t done club sarging for more than a couple months now, and hadn’t been into a club to sarge EVER in my life before that. So to me, this stuff is revelatory. To me, making chicks APPROACH ME is something worth posting.. I wasn’t posting “I’m hot stuff, look at me getting approached”.. I was posting HOW I got them to do that.. I’d written that I wasn’t done writing the FR yet, and that I had to leaven and couldn’t complete it.. Least you could have done was gone after me on a post where it was completed! :)
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HANDLING AMOGS A few good ones if you want to cause some trouble :) 1) “whoa.. dude, you remind me so much of the most popular guy from my high school.. like the captain of the football team guy, who beats up all the nerds..” 2) “whoa.. dude, you’re like a total alpha male.. yeah, I’m serious.. I watched this show on TV describing alpha males.. you totally fit the bill.” 3) “dude.. you’re a pretty cool guy.. you know, I’m just saying that you’re cool.. you’re just a cool guy” (in a way where he can’t tell if you’re serious, so he has to say “thanks”, but doesn’t quite know how to react) You’ll find that you get amazing results from these first three for several reasons: •
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this is a mind-fuck called “LABELLING”... its like if I told a gangster rapper “hey, you’re like the ‘fuck-guy’.. you like to say ‘fuck’ all the time.. that’s so cool.... ‘fuuuuck guuuuuy.. what’s up!” The gangster rapper would feel like “WTF.. is that bad?” and stop using the word ‘fuck’ around me as a result. It’s basically designed to get him CONSTANTLY CONSCIOUS of his actions, to trip him up. it shows that you understand his behaviour, and that the more he acts like that, the more he shows you that YOU ARE RIGHT, making YOU the alpha.
More good ones: 4) FROM LOVEDROP: Ask AMOG if he can handle doing shots. Offer to purchase. Go to bar. Order 3 shots of Coca-Cola and 3 shots of Jaegermeister. (They look identical.) Bring shots back....quickly do Coke shots one after the other. Worst case, if he wants to buy the next round, you do a few shots....but then you get another round. Now he’s had 9 shots :-) He WILL capitulate in front of everyone. “Ok dude, that’s enough, you win, I can’t handle any more.” It’s great. You will be the alpha, and he will be vomiting in the bathroom all night. This is FIELD TESTED. o===3 5) Wait until the guy leaves the group, and say: “OK guys.. you wanna see something FUNNY AS FUCK.. alright, when AMOG gets back, I’m going to tell the LAMEST joke.. and the punchline will be JELLO... when I say the punchline, all of us are gonna break out laughing, and if he laughs then we laugh at HIM.. (guy comes back).. there’s a priest, a rabbi, and a muslim spiritual guy all in a boat.. and its sinking.. so the rabbi jumps out and says “God will save me..”.. and he drowns.. DROWNS, like DEAD he DROWNS.. then the muslim spiritual guy jumps out and says “God will save me”.. same thing, he DROWNS.. dammit he DROWNS.. so the priest gets up, looks at the sky, and says....................... JELLO” Everyone starts laughing, and the AMOG laughs also.. Then you all laugh at AMOG, and he’s de-AMOG-ified.
BEFRIENDING GUYS: If you are a 23 year old frat guy like me, this is how you befriend guys.. older guys, I dunno. For example, if you want to open a set that has a guy in it, to get to your target, here are things to talk about to guys. (as opposed to using something like the “Spells routine”, which guys will think is fucked up and boring). Mystery tells me this all the time, and its definetely true - “when you own the men, you own the women.. when you own the women, you own the men..” So if you can get good at chatting guys in clubs, and good at gaining acceptance from them, their chicks will dig you and you can often exploit that. 1) CONTRA ROUTINE: PUA: dude, you’ll never guess what I played today.. WTF, C-O-N-T-R-A.... fucking SWEET..... up up down down left right left right B A B A select start.... ooooooh yeah dude,. that’s the fucking SHIIIIT.. dude I had the SPREAD GUN, I was like fucking up the alien wall shit... it was fucking NUTS.. 2) CHINESE MULLET ROUTINE: PUA: dude, today I took my chinese buddy, who had long hair, and we fucking buzzed him fucking STRAIGHT-UP.. we cut down here (hand motions) and here.. and BOXED it all up here.. and left it all long back here.. and cut the sideburns all squared up high like this.. and dude, we put in .............. RACING STRIPES!!! Like Vanilla Ice.. it was the fucking SHIT... 3) GREMLIN CAR STEREO ROUTINE: PUA: bro, just outside this fucking OLD SCHOOL GREMLIN rolled by.. it was fucking OLD SCHOOL SHIT dude.. it had this MASSIVE car stereo in it, like big
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206 bass SUBS in the back, and it was fucking PUMPING.. the whole car was vibrating like “dummmmmmmm dummmmmmmm”
Any more good ones (to put down, or to befriend) would be appreciated. What are some great ways to befriend and get rapport with GUYS fast? Any thoughts? I’ve never been great at this, although what I’ve posted is tested and works very well. •
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Just stopped by, and thought I could post something. I don’t have time to get into all that stuff Jlaix was on about (too long), but here’s some other stuff I’ve been up to lately that I thought was pretty funny. I learned most of this stuff in Europe, while trying to steal sets from guys and preventing them from stealing sets from me. The guys here are not pushovers like most guys I meet in North America. Many have game. This is field tested probably hundreds of times. AMOG: How do you guys know eachother? PUA: Her? I fucked her. (Girl will go “aaaaaaaaah... hahahahah, I did NOT!!! But she’ll hit you and be giggling and start crawling all over you...). AMOG: Hey, this is a nice girl. PUA: Her.. she’s a slut.. (Again, girl will start going “nooooo!” while giggling her ass off and crawling on you.. this is very deflating to the guy trying to cut in) NOTE: Trying the above 2 was actually kinda weird for me. I was like “fuck, I can’t say this”. But I’d seen the European naturals use it on me a few times, so I thought “fuck it, I’ll use it”. I use it all the time now, including just bringing it up like “actually guys, you know her and I know eachother.. know how? I fucked her..” The girls freak out and giggle and grab you and get hyper. The key though is that you have to do it when they’re already at high buying temperature. Like similar to CraigSD220’s C&F Accentuators. You do it to add punch to something else that already got them laughing. AMOG: Hey girls whats up (or whatever) PUA: Hey dude dude (putting hands up like you give up).. I will pay you a HUNDRED dollars right now, to take these girls away from me. (Girls will go “no no no... we love you PUA.. noooooo” and giggle and crawl on you.. Again, immediately deflating to the guy) AMOG: Hey girls what’s up (or whatever) PUA: Dude, OMG that shirt is AWESOME.. I had one just like it in highschool, it fucking rocks man.. Having a good time in London man.. It’s awesome huh? Dude you’re like the coolest guy I met all night.. (patting him on the shoulder).. AMOG: (showing signs that he wants to fight) PUA: hahah, dude, are you like trying to pick a fight with me? hahahha.. ok ok hold up hold up.. wait a sec, we’ll do even better.. first... we’ll have an armwrestling competition.. then second.. we’ll do one armed pushups.. and last..... POSE-DOWN!! (then you start flexing and go “ladies?”, and they start saying how you’re so strong, and the AMOG looks like a tool.. you’re tooling him, by making him seem like he’s trying too hard to impress the girls by showing them superiority). AMOG: Hey man.. keep talking.. no no, let’s hear your pitch man.. pick these girls up man, you’re doing awesome. PUA: Hey, you know I’ve gotta try to impress you COOL (x-city, x-dressed, x-whateverquality) guys.. You guys fucking ROCK. (cut him down on whatever limited amount of knowledge you have of him, even if its not relevant whatsoever, he’ll feel uncomfortable and his bodylanguage will show it) AMOG: (starts touching you to show dominance) PUA: hahhaha, DUUUUDE, I’m not into guys man... dude, there’s club-gay-whatever over there man.. hands off the merchandise buddy (girls laugh at him, then he starts qualifying himself to you that he’s not gay) AMOG: (gets in your face) PUA: (don’t answer.. just SIT there quiet.. the more he says stuff to you, the more he’s TRYING.. talking too long without an answer is QUALIFYING yourself.. so if he keeps trying to out-alpha you, and you don’t answer, eventually he looks beta because he tried too hard to get your attention.. another trick is to make “let’s get out of here” girlcode with your eyes to the girls (mimmick what they do to eachother when you do a bad set), and they’ll leave with you) AMOG: (gets in your face) PUA: dude, you’re an alphamale.. AMOG: what’s that..
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207 PUA: you know, like the leader of the pack.. you call the shots.. you can put your hands on guys you don’t know, cause you’re alpha.. (fucks up his whole ‘look cool’ game, because you’ve characterized all his manneurisms, so anything he does to look alpha makes him appear to be qualifying himself too you.. if he continues, just say “see... alphamale.. whoa tiger, I can’t mess”)
Also more tactics.. Once you get the guy to qualify himself to you in any way (like he tries to make friends), rather than being nice, IMMEDIATELY cut him out of the circle. Just cut him out. You’ll notice trying to SHUT YOUR GAME DOWN by bombarding you with logical questions. They’ll start pummeling you with logical stuff, so that you have to answer him the girls fall out of state. For me I found the solution was just to say “hey man, don’t get all scientific on me.. we’re here to have fun..” and then immediately start gaming the girls again. btw, if I’m out with any of my GFs at a club, and another guy hits on them, I use the same tactics on AMOGS to stop them. When you cut him out of the circle, he’ll either leave (too deflated), or he’ll try to grab your shoulder and say something like “don’t turn your back on me”. From there, the girls think he’s creepy, so you say “hey guys, this dude is creepy.. are you friends with this guy?? did YOU bring this guy here?” The girls will say “no no no, we don’t know him”, and you say “OK, let’s get out of here”, and put out your arms for them to grab. Then walk away with the girls on your arms, and if you want (I do this alot) turn around and have them both kiss you on the cheek and wave the AMOG goodbye.
Also, you can USE the AMOG’s WORK for yourself. Like he lines ‘em up, you knock ‘em down. This is something I do alot. I let a guy pick a girl up and increase her buying temperature, then I go in and outalpha him, say he’s creepy to the girls, and then remove them from him. The girls are already aroused, so they are still in state based on what the AMOG did. I can do this like maybe on 90% of sets I approach where a natural AMOG has gotten far with a girl. I think a dude I know “Stephane” recently posted about this on Cliff’s List regarding a sarge we did. Basically, I just make the friends of the girl who is getting gamed on by the AMOG like me. Like, they want me, but they know they’re not qualified but their friend is. Then I say “Hey I want to meet your friend so much, but that touchy grabby lean in guy is all over her.. is she just being nice, or does she really like guys who lean in and touch and do all the ‘whats your name’ fake ungenuine stuff?” The UGs are invariably like “no no, we hate guys like that.. that’s why we love you so much blah blah”, and then you get the FRIENDS to literally REMOVE the hottie that you want from the AMOG who is conveniently heating her up for you and saving you the hassle. Hoboken wrote: 1.What would you do if you are with a chick and she is not yet into you and a AMOG upsurps you..would your tactics work then or is there another method? 2.What about guys that say nothing to you and then put there arm around the HB you are sarging or hold her hand? 3.Does Ben do the same thing for anti AMOG?
TD SAYS: Thanks man. 1) At this point, my game is based around the assumption that all girls I approach will be into me, unless I made an error. If they’re not though, I suppose I’d probably try to exploit the alphamale as something I could use to convey higher value in front of the girl, and hope that she sticks around to watch. 2) I’d say “wow, you guys are so cute.. you look like brother and sister..” 3) As for Ben, one thing that’s frustered me is that I never get a chance to sarge with the guy. We’re always split up in groups. Same with Papa for the last few months. It sucks. They’re my close friends, but we never get to sarge together. My main wing right now is Sickboy007.
Michael wrote: In case it’s not already obvious, I just wanted to say that if YOU “started up” with HIM and interrupted him with his HB(s) and so thereby started the “attack” on this AMOG, and if THEN he starts to show that he will fight, it would be risky as hell to do the same tactic of making fun of him, etc.
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208 TD SAYS: Yeah totally man. For me though, I don’t worry about that. Papa pointed out to me that we look at a mixed gender set and analyze one of two choices. 1) If they CAME with the set (they’re there “together”) then its NEUTRALIZE. 2) If they’re just meeting them that night, then its BLOW THEM OUT. So if the guys are with the girls, I cut them down, until THEY are chasing rapport with ME. Then I make friends. But if they don’t know the girls before now, I just roll in and literally PLOW them with my better tonality blitzkrieg-style. My tonality is specially geared towards cutting through noise in clubs. I talk from the diaphragm, and it cuts over all other noise while not appearing that I’m yelling. Girls are like deer in the headlight around it, which is why I’m able to cut over all other talking. I find that often while I’m gaming sets, girls from around the area will start coming over to check me out, because they hear the voice cutting over everything, even though it doesn’t sound like I’m actually YELLING. They say weird shit like “I like your voice”.. It just sounds like I’m talking, but its cutting over all music/talking/noise. I also have inflexions in my voice that I learned from meeting the best guys, that come across playful and cut out the guys immediately. The key here is PATTERN BREAKING. For example, we all have patterns. If I go to shake hands with you, but then I cut you off just as I’m about to shake it, you’ll be STUNNED for a second. This is a natural response. So this goes for false opinion openers.. (pattern-breakers in ‘*’): “Hey guys, I need a female opinion.. do girls think that the rockstar David Bowie is hot? short pause, not long enough for them to answer, my friends little sister just got a poster of David Bowie.. That is an OLD MAN.. he is OLD.. do YOU like old men??? • “guys” breaks pattern of them being called “girls”, and disarms • “need” disarms asking permission.. rather than setting their brain on a “can I get” train of thought, where her thought process has to DECIDE whether or not to reply, you just say you “need” it, so she has to listen • do “girls” think that, implies that you don’t care what SHE in particular thinks, and you are just using her as a SPECIMEN for a female opinion • the short pause, just too short for her to answer, allows you to barrel through and cut over all her thought processes and those of the guys.. she then BACKWARDS RATIONALIZES that because she’s been chatting you for 2 minutes, that you’re in a conversation, and doesn’t resist it • “do YOU like old men” is an accusation.. it gets her buying temperature up, because you’re accusing her of things, which conveys you as authoritative, and gets her into a qualifying frame.
IJJJI wrote: You acknowledge him too much. IGNORE him until the HB you talk to start to notice him. At this moment he will come off as TRYING to get into your set (trying=beta).
Thanks for the input man. Actually you and I are on the EXACT same wave length here, but I failed to explain things thoroughly so good clarification. Check over the part where I wrote to actually just not to talk to the alpha, to bait him to keep talking to you. Where I wrote “just sit there and say nothing, or even make “let’s go” girl eye code. What I do is use silence to blow the guy out. If he acknowledges ME while I won’t acknowledge HIM, he qualifies himself by still paying attention to me, and is blown out. As for acknowledging him too much, I actually DISREGARD the alphas until they try to cut in. I de-value them by treating them like they don’t exist, but if they get in my way aggressively (which is what most of the post was referring to, since its Europe out here), then I cut them down with the aforementioned tactics. Still man, very good clarification, because like with boyfriend destroyers where guys will say “How do you get the boyfriend to come up in convo?”, its like “dude, this is TROUBLE SHOOTING.. preferably, you don’t want it to come up at all”. The out-alpha stuff is for when its unavoidable - common out here in Europe.
IJJJI WROTE: Okokok.. but TD, you left out the one AMOG that poses a real problem. Its the one who goes straight up to the HB you are talking to and NEG her, while totally ignoring you. What are you supposed to do if he gets HB’s attention and continue ignoring you??
Haaa.. dude, you definetely do this stuff also.. Yes man, in Lester Square we get these guys. The key is to go FURTHER than they do.. Good that you brought this up also, I forgot about these, and they’re common. Examples: AMOG: You know I already fucked these girls. PUA: haa... oh man, I hope you doubled up! GROSS!
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209 AMOG: hey guys.. PUA: Hey.. know how I know these girls.. I fucked them.. AMOG: haa.. then you got sloppy seconds buddy.. gross! PUA: hahaha.. oh dude, you KNOW I doubled up on these girls.. hahaha AMOG: look at these little brats (or whatever teasing or neg) PUA: yeah man, these girls tried to fuck me all night.. AMOG: they tried to fuck YOU? hahha, these girls ARE sluts! PUA: dude, you have NO CLUE.. these girls just did (whatever thing you can MISINTERPRET) THIS I LEARNED FROM CROATIAN BADBOY (IMO the best PUA in the scene in all Europe, taught me this stuff.. he’s not known on mASF, but well known in the European scene and the Lounge.. He did post stuff here though on how he fucked the “Miss Croatia” competition winners and other celebs he fucked, which you guys may remember) Look at the double binds Badboy is using here: AMOG: hey look at these little brats (or whatever teasing) BADBOY: hey man.. do you have a girlfriend? either: AMOG: yes.. BADBOY: girls.. what do you think of a guy who goes out and leaves his girlfriend all alone.. is that nice? HBS: nooooo... or: AMOG: no... (he now looks bad for having no girlfriend) BADBOY: man, you have to be nice to girls.. you have to by them drinks and flowers and call them 10 times a day.. girls, you like guys who treat you nice right (they HAVE to say yes, even though they don’t.. also, by saying it in a way that makes nice guys sound LAME, he’s highlighting that he’s not like that, but is TOOLING the AMOG all the while) For guys who have less game: AMOG: flowers/drinks/compliments/even just approaching BADBOY: girls.. go to him.. he is nice.. he will buy you whatever you want, and call TEN TIMES A DAY.. no no.. a HUNDRED TIMES A DAY.. he will WORSHIP YOU..
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QUICK AMOG TACTICS I used this twice last night. When lameass AMOGs try to approach your set, you smile and say “Dude, she just broke up with her boyfriend”, and raise your eyebrows like ‘go for it’, kind of thing. They girls are like “SHUT UP! I DID NOT!!” and jump on you and start hitting you. It’s funny shit. One thing Dreamweaver pointed out to me, was that if you make suggestions about the girl doing things with the AMOG, that she is not at the buying temperature to be ready for, its an out-alpha, since she isn’t ready for that, she’ll squirm at the thought of it. The dude will see it, and feel deflated. Also: TUG OF WAR If you are playing tug of war with another player, and he has her, DO NOT try to REASON with the chick to go with you. Literally just spit more game at her, right in front of the AMOG. Some people aren’t clear on this obviously, as I realized seeing Twentysix get his girl that wanted him fucking bad, go home with another guy, after he left her with too long of a takeaway. He was FULL IN with this girl. Fully on, greenlight for full monty. But he ditched her for 45 minutes and some goodlooking natural scooped her up. She even begged me to help her find him, but I didn’t know where he was at. By the time he came back, she was leaving with AMOG. He could he gotten her back by telling loud stories at her, and doing DHVs. She would have been interested, and would have ditched AMOG. But he lost. Lesson learned. I’ve learned this one the hard way MANY times. You do this by literally smurfing the AMOG out of your reality. You just plow the girls, until they jump off of him, onto you. If he says anything, just laugh at him, or drop an AMOG blaster line on him, and then continue like you don’t even know he’s anything more than a 5 year old kid. Then say “Check this out. This is awesome. C’mere”, and pull her away from the AMOG. She’ll protest because she wants to fuck AMOG, but you just pretend you didn’t hear, and rush her away from him. You can also grab another set of UGs and tell them to go meet your best friend, the AMOG, and that you’ll be right back. This may distract him long enough to get her away from him. Her buying temperature will be fully primed, so you can extract and lay. This is field tested many times. I love this kind of stuff. If he persists, poke him and call him cute and shit like that, and KEEP going with the DHVs and stories. Then say he’s weird, and pull her home. Should AMOG really persist, your last resort is to say “Dude, go get a helmet and some crayons and go to the corner and keep yourself busy.” Variations are to tell him what to draw like “Dude, draw me pictures of that cool Tommy Hilfiger shirt, so I can go buy one.. It fucking rocks man, go draw it.”, or the variation where you get him to go for rapport with you and then you break it. Like “Dude, OK seriously I was kidding around before and I’m not trying to mess with you. But I actually have like the best intuition for you, and I want you to hear it. Do you want to hear it?” When he says ‘yeah’, then tell him what to do. Most guys won’t fall for this, but if you detect he will, he looks doubly stupid for taking you seriously, and he’ll be deflated instantly. This backfires if he declines, in which case you fully shut him out and never address him again unless its to say “Dude, why are you talking to me. You’re fucking weird man.”
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MORE AMOG TACTICS Just stopped by, and thought I could post something. I don’t have time to get into all that stuff Jlaix was on about (too long), but here’s some other stuff I’ve been up to lately that I thought was pretty funny. I learned most of this stuff in Europe, while trying to steal sets from guys and preventing them from stealing sets from me. The guys here are not pushovers like most guys I meet in North America. Many have game. This is field tested probably hundreds of times. AMOG: How do you guys know eachother? PUA: Her? I fucked her. (Girl will go “aaaaaaaaah... hahahahah, I did NOT!!! But she’ll hit you and be giggling and start crawling all over you...). AMOG: Hey, this is a nice girl. PUA: Her.. she’s a slut.. (Again, girl will start going “nooooo!” while giggling her ass off and crawling on you.. this is very deflating to the guy trying to cut in) NOTE: Trying the above 2 was actually kinda weird for me. I was like “fuck, I can’t say this”. But I’d seen the European naturals use it on me a few times, so I thought “fuck it, I’ll use it”. I use it all the time now, including just bringing it up like “actually guys, you know her and I know eachother.. know how? I fucked her..” The girls freak out and giggle and grab you and get hyper. The key though is that you have to do it when they’re already at high buying temperature. Like similar to CraigSD220’s C&F Accentuators. You do it to add punch to something else that already got them laughing. AMOG: Hey girls whats up (or whatever) PUA: Hey dude dude (putting hands up like you give up).. I will pay you a HUNDRED dollars right now, to take these girls away from me. (Girls will go “no no no... we love you PUA.. noooooo” and giggle and crawl on you.. Again, immediately deflating to the guy) AMOG: Hey girls what’s up (or whatever) PUA: Dude, OMG that shirt is AWESOME.. I had one just like it in highschool, it fucking rocks man.. Having a good time in London man.. It’s awesome huh? Dude you’re like the coolest guy I met all night.. (patting him on the shoulder).. AMOG: (showing signs that he wants to fight) PUA: hahah, dude, are you like trying to pick a fight with me? hahahha.. ok ok hold up hold up.. wait a sec, we’ll do even better.. first... we’ll have an armwrestling competition.. then second.. we’ll do one armed pushups.. and last..... POSE-DOWN!! (then you start flexing and go “ladies?”, and they start saying how you’re so strong, and the AMOG looks like a tool.. you’re tooling him, by making him seem like he’s trying too hard to impress the girls by showing them superiority). AMOG: Hey man.. keep talking.. no no, let’s hear your pitch man.. pick these girls up man, you’re doing awesome. PUA: Hey, you know I’ve gotta try to impress you COOL (x-city, x-dressed, x-whateverquality) guys.. You guys fucking ROCK. (cut him down on whatever limited amount of knowledge you have of him, even if its not relevant whatsoever, he’ll feel uncomfortable and his bodylanguage will show it) AMOG: (starts touching you to show dominance) PUA: hahhaha, DUUUUDE, I’m not into guys man... dude, there’s club-gay-whatever over there man.. hands off the merchandise buddy (girls laugh at him, then he starts qualifying himself to you that he’s not gay) AMOG: (gets in your face) PUA: (don’t answer.. just SIT there quiet.. the more he says stuff to you, the more he’s TRYING.. talking too long without an answer is QUALIFYING yourself.. so if he keeps trying to out-alpha you, and you don’t answer, eventually he looks beta because he tried too hard to get your attention.. another trick is
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212 to make “let’s get out of here” girlcode with your eyes to the girls (mimmick what they do to eachother when you do a bad set), and they’ll leave with you) AMOG: (gets in your face) PUA: dude, you’re an alphamale.. AMOG: what’s that.. PUA: you know, like the leader of the pack.. you call the shots.. you can put your hands on guys you don’t know, cause you’re alpha.. (fucks up his whole ‘look cool’ game, because you’ve characterized all his manneurisms, so anything he does to look alpha makes him appear to be qualifying himself too you.. if he continues, just say “see... alphamale.. whoa tiger, I can’t mess”)
Also more tactics.. Once you get the guy to qualify himself to you in any way (like he tries to make friends), rather than being nice, IMMEDIATELY cut him out of the circle. Just cut him out. You’ll notice trying to SHUT YOUR GAME DOWN by bombarding you with logical questions. They’ll start pummeling you with logical stuff, so that you have to answer him the girls fall out of state. For me I found the solution was just to say “hey man, don’t get all scientific on me.. we’re here to have fun..” and then immediately start gaming the girls again. btw, if I’m out with any of my GFs at a club, and another guy hits on them, I use the same tactics on AMOGS to stop them. When you cut him out of the circle, he’ll either leave (too deflated), or he’ll try to grab your shoulder and say something like “don’t turn your back on me”. From there, the girls think he’s creepy, so you say “hey guys, this dude is creepy.. are you friends with this guy?? did YOU bring this guy here?” The girls will say “no no no, we don’t know him”, and you say “OK, let’s get out of here”, and put out your arms for them to grab. Then walk away with the girls on your arms, and if you want (I do this alot) turn around and have them both kiss you on the cheek and wave the AMOG goodbye.
Also, you can USE the AMOG’s WORK for yourself. Like he lines ‘em up, you knock ‘em down. This is something I do alot. I let a guy pick a girl up and increase her buying temperature, then I go in and outalpha him, say he’s creepy to the girls, and then remove them from him. The girls are already aroused, so they are still in state based on what the AMOG did. I can do this like maybe on 90% of sets I approach where a natural AMOG has gotten far with a girl. I think a dude I know “Stephane” recently posted about this on Cliff’s List regarding a sarge we did. Basically, I just make the friends of the girl who is getting gamed on by the AMOG like me. Like, they want me, but they know they’re not qualified but their friend is. Then I say “Hey I want to meet your friend so much, but that touchy grabby lean in guy is all over her.. is she just being nice, or does she really like guys who lean in and touch and do all the ‘whats your name’ fake ungenuine stuff?” The UGs are invariably like “no no, we hate guys like that.. that’s why we love you so much blah blah”, and then you get the FRIENDS to literally REMOVE the hottie that you want from the AMOG who is conveniently heating her up for you and saving you the hassle. Spanky wrote: I’m being very greedy/arrogant here, but can you copy and paste it from the mystery lounge for us? Hope you still catch this message... -TD SAYS: I am still demo’ing it live to the top community guys - something that travelling has afforded me the opportunity to do - and trying to understand all of the complexities. I’m going back to school soon and won’t have time to post if my workload is too heavy, but I’ll post it once its better refined.
Hoboken wrote: 1.What would you do if you are with a chick and she is not yet into you and a AMOG upsurps you..would your tactics work then or is there another method? 2.What about guys that say nothing to you and then put there arm around the HB you are sarging or hold her hand? 3.Does Ben do the same thing for anti AMOG?
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213 TD SAYS: Thanks man. 1) At this point, my game is based around the assumption that all girls I approach will be into me, unless I made an error. If they’re not though, I suppose I’d probably try to exploit the alphamale as something I could use to convey higher value in front of the girl, and hope that she sticks around to watch. 2) I’d say “wow, you guys are so cute.. you look like brother and sister..” 3) As for Ben, one thing that’s frustered me is that I never get a chance to sarge with the guy. We’re always split up in groups. Same with Papa for the last few months. It sucks. They’re my close friends, but we never get to sarge together. My main wing right now is Sickboy007.
Michael wrote: In case it’s not already obvious, I just wanted to say that if YOU “started up” with HIM and interrupted him with his HB(s) and so thereby started the “attack” on this AMOG, and if THEN he starts to show that he will fight, it would be risky as hell to do the same tactic of making fun of him, etc.
TD SAYS: Yeah totally man. For me though, I don’t worry about that. Papa pointed out to me that we look at a mixed gender set and analyze one of two choices. 1) If they CAME with the set (they’re there “together”) then its NEUTRALIZE. 2) If they’re just meeting them that night, then its BLOW THEM OUT. So if the guys are with the girls, I cut them down, until THEY are chasing rapport with ME. Then I make friends. But if they don’t know the girls before now, I just roll in and literally PLOW them with my better tonality blitzkrieg-style. My tonality is specially geared towards cutting through noise in clubs. I talk from the diaphragm, and it cuts over all other noise while not appearing that I’m yelling. Girls are like deer in the headlight around it, which is why I’m able to cut over all other talking. I find that often while I’m gaming sets, girls from around the area will start coming over to check me out, because they hear the voice cutting over everything, even though it doesn’t sound like I’m actually YELLING. They say weird shit like “I like your voice”.. It just sounds like I’m talking, but its cutting over all music/talking/noise. I also have inflexions in my voice that I learned from meeting the best guys, that come across playful and cut out the guys immediately. The key here is PATTERN BREAKING. For example, we all have patterns. If I go to shake hands with you, but then I cut you off just as I’m about to shake it, you’ll be STUNNED for a second. This is a natural response. So this goes for false opinion openers.. (pattern-breakers in ‘*’): “Hey guys, I need a female opinion.. do girls think that the rockstar David Bowie is hot? short pause, not long enough for them to answer, my friends little sister just got a poster of David Bowie.. That is an OLD MAN.. he is OLD.. do YOU like old men??? • “guys” breaks pattern of them being called “girls”, and disarms • “need” disarms asking permission.. rather than setting their brain on a “can I get” train of thought, where her thought process has to DECIDE whether or not to reply, you just say you “need” it, so she has to listen • do “girls” think that, implies that you don’t care what SHE in particular thinks, and you are just using her as a SPECIMEN for a female opinion • the short pause, just too short for her to answer, allows you to barrel through and cut over all her thought processes and those of the guys.. she then BACKWARDS RATIONALIZES that because she’s been chatting you for 2 minutes, that you’re in a conversation, and doesn’t resist it • “do YOU like old men” is an accusation.. it gets her buying temperature up, because you’re accusing her of things, which conveys you as authoritative, and gets her into a qualifying frame.
IJJJI wrote: You acknowledge him too much. IGNORE him until the HB you talk to start to notice him. At this moment he will come off as TRYING to get into your set
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214 (trying=beta).
Thanks for the input man. Actually you and I are on the EXACT same wave length here, but I failed to explain things thoroughly so good clarification. Check over the part where I wrote to actually just not to talk to the alpha, to bait him to keep talking to you. Where I wrote “just sit there and say nothing, or even make “let’s go” girl eye code. What I do is use silence to blow the guy out. If he acknowledges ME while I won’t acknowledge HIM, he qualifies himself by still paying attention to me, and is blown out. As for acknowledging him too much, I actually DISREGARD the alphas until they try to cut in. I de-value them by treating them like they don’t exist, but if they get in my way aggressively (which is what most of the post was referring to, since its Europe out here), then I cut them down with the aforementioned tactics. Still man, very good clarification, because like with boyfriend destroyers where guys will say “How do you get the boyfriend to come up in convo?”, its like “dude, this is TROUBLE SHOOTING.. preferably, you don’t want it to come up at all”. The out-alpha stuff is for when its unavoidable - common out here in Europe.
IJJJI WROTE: Okokok.. but TD, you left out the one AMOG that poses a real problem. Its the one who goes straight up to the HB you are talking to and NEG her, while totally ignoring you. What are you supposed to do if he gets HB’s attention and continue ignoring you??
Haaa.. dude, you definetely do this stuff also.. Yes man, in Lester Square we get these guys. The key is to go FURTHER than they do.. Good that you brought this up also, I forgot about these, and they’re common. Examples: AMOG: You know I already fucked these girls. PUA: haa... oh man, I hope you doubled up! GROSS! AMOG: hey guys.. PUA: Hey.. know how I know these girls.. I fucked them.. AMOG: haa.. then you got sloppy seconds buddy.. gross! PUA: hahaha.. oh dude, you KNOW I doubled up on these girls.. hahaha AMOG: look at these little brats (or whatever teasing or neg) PUA: yeah man, these girls tried to fuck me all night.. AMOG: they tried to fuck YOU? hahha, these girls ARE sluts! PUA: dude, you have NO CLUE.. these girls just did (whatever thing you can MISINTERPRET) THIS I LEARNED FROM CROATIAN BADBOY (IMO the best PUA in the scene in all Europe, taught me this stuff.. he’s not known on mASF, but well known in the European scene and the Lounge.. He did post stuff here though on how he fucked the “Miss Croatia” competition winners and other celebs he fucked, which you guys may remember) Look at the double binds Badboy is using here: AMOG: hey look at these little brats (or whatever teasing) BADBOY: hey man.. do you have a girlfriend? either: AMOG: yes.. BADBOY: girls.. what do you think of a guy who goes out and leaves his girlfriend all alone.. is that nice?
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215 HBS: nooooo... or: AMOG: no... (he now looks bad for having no girlfriend) BADBOY: man, you have to be nice to girls.. you have to by them drinks and flowers and call them 10 times a day.. girls, you like guys who treat you nice right (they HAVE to say yes, even though they don’t.. also, by saying it in a way that makes nice guys sound LAME, he’s highlighting that he’s not like that, but is TOOLING the AMOG all the while) For guys who have less game: AMOG: flowers/drinks/compliments/even just approaching BADBOY: girls.. go to him.. he is nice.. he will buy you whatever you want, and call TEN TIMES A DAY.. no no.. a HUNDRED TIMES A DAY.. he will WORSHIP YOU.. Thanks Craig. That reminds of me the classic “Hey, when I’m talking to you I’ll point my finger at you” from your Elimidate. I used that tonight and the HB10 was all over it. One addition that I forgot about. Sickboy007 and I were gaming a 2 set from this HUGE 6’6 black guy. Once he looked ready to knock us down, Sickboy007 goes Sickboy007: Dude, have you ever seen Fight Club.. Have you ever seen Fight Club?? AMOG: umm yeah.. Sickboy007: OK dude, dude.. “I want you to HIT ME, AS HARD AS YOU CAN”... hit me.. hit me... AMOG: (looking like WTF?) Sickboy007: whoa whoa whoa.. actually dude, DO NOT hit me.. with those arms, man you’d KILL ME.. seriously man, don’t don’t.. look at this guy, WTF was I thinking??? (use at your own risk.. :)... ) Also, I get alot of AMOGs here knowing the frame, so I have to take it further: AMOG: Is that design on your shirt a sphinkter? Man, you’re going to need somebody to protect you mate, you’re going to have all the guys into you.. (yes I actually got this, and that was a cool shirt but he still found a way to diss it, and to be honest it was a good diss) PUA: Dude, that’s why I rolled up on you.. I need YOU man.. help me, please man.. dude, I look at you, and I just KNOW that you were born to protect my sphinkter OR: AMOG: Is that design on your shirt a sphinkter? Man, you’re going to need somebody to protect you mate, you’re going to have all the guys into you.. PUA: hahah man you are SO FUNNY.. man, you’re the best comedian.. dude, honestly, I like you man.. you’re awesome.. you don’t have to be funny for me to like you.. AMOG: hey you fucking ginger-minger.. (I’m considered bad looking out here, because red-head guys are apparently unattractive in Britain - gingerminger means ugly redhead guy.. for guys who are fat, short, etc, guys will fall back on a CRUTCH and hit you with something
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216 sensitive to try to get you to flinch.. after getting burned on this a few times, I figured the formula, again, is to point out the GAP between what they actually ARE what what they PROJECT.. PUA: whoa you’re like the best verbal sparring partner ever.. that was so original man.. you’re SO COOL.. ladies, is this guy not the coolest?? Guy, I can’t roll with you, I’ll pay you a hundred dollars to take these ladies from me right now.. ....saw some more tonight. I’m walking home (first day back at school, btw) and some dude is pissing on the wall. AMOG: its fucking huge, huh? TD: yeah dude, I almost swooned. He’s surprised obviously (this guy was pretty alpha actually). He keeps walking, probably thinking of how to out-alpha me. AMOG: swooned huh? hahah man you’re such a JOKER. (I LIKE this one, calling guys a “joker” if they nail you with a good one.. like the implication is that he’s the insecure type to use humour to gain acceptance) TD: yeah man... you know I’ve got to impress.. (standard come back for guys who imply I’m trying to impress them with any of the “nice shirt” or “you’re awesome” type stuff) AMOG: haa, I AM impressed man.. (still trying to top me here) TD: guy, without my fans..... (I raise my hands to finish the sentence.. notice that in out-alphaing, you don’t use alot of well thought out sentences.. its like even giving well thought out answers is too much.. this is like from JAP Busting posts where I answer “why did you ask me this” simply with “....I’m talking” (with a funny face like “WTF is she thinking asking me this.. ) Then I do freeze out and turn my back on him. If he attempts to re-initiate, he’s outalpha’ed, so must give up.. Also, if a guy answers with something too well thought out, I just smirk and go “whoa dude, that’s pretty scientific” and immediately turn my back and freeze him out.. As usual, if he tries to get me to turn around by grabbing me, I run the “whoa dude, Club-477 (gay club here) is down there.. hands off the merchandise buddy, and if he replies I keep saying “man I’m not gay.. stop trying man, I’m not gay”).
I think another variation of this could be if a guy really burns you, you could say: PUA: haaa, GUY, hahah.. man, I can’t keep up with you buddy, while I’m out you’re like at home thinking this stuff up.. guy you are a JOKER man.. P.S.: For the record, I think that this whole thing is fucking lame. I’m just glad that I understand it now. I remember being back in high-school and having these assholes using shit like this on me, and I have to say that just understanding the format well enough to be able to out-alpha anyone is awesome (combined obviously with that I can remove their chicks from them, if not totally then at least get them obviously wanting to within around 1 minute which the AMOGS fucking hate). I think that the main benefit is that you never have to feel like somebody in a public gathering is going to make you feel like shit or embaress you, because you can cut them down faster and harder than anything that they can do to you. The thing I really like about AMOG tactics actually, now that I’m back in North America and don’t have to use them much, is that you at least UNDERSTAND the FRAME that these guys are using. So you have the CONFIDENCE that if something comes up for ANY reason, you can slam people hard. It gives you the confidence to go into mixed sets and to dress outrageous. I’ve really found that ever since I got down the AMOG blasters, my confidence has been up at a max level. Understanding the frame also has insights in terms of social dynamics in general. Like not qualifying yourself, etc.. Lastly, and most importantly I guess, is that I PEPPER this stuff in, combined with BEFRIENDING, so that the guy is sort of insecure a bit, and thus becomes VERY open to me befriending him, almost in the same way that chicks are open to rapport after C&F. So befriending sets with guys becomes so much easier, just understanding the frame in general. Like I had this black dude roll up on me and say about my bright silver shoes that I occassionally wear (that are I think are cool, btw, and gets me thinking to type up a new peacocking posts) “man, I should wear those shoes.. I’d look like a million dollars”.. and I’m like “dude. a million dollars? C’mon man, don’t sell yourself short.. You’d look like a TRILLION dollars.. You’re the fucking shit man, c’mon”
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217 This guy was a black L.A. player, and he knew instantly that I was a player also. He was all “what’s up man” and brought me into a room where he was fucking 3 chicks (he was a MAJOR player) and hooked me up with them. Like literally he served up the blondie to me like - “fuck her” (this after I gamed them up a bit with mini-cold reads and pushed them away). I had to leave for workshop, so told them I’d come back, and then the next day while I was on my way out of the hotel, they approached me and gave me their phone #s, because the black dude accomplishment intro’d me. All this, just because I knew the AMOG stuff and made a good impression.
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SUBTLE EXAMPLE OF AMOG STUFF I was just heading off to the club, but thought about something that happened to me last night on the topic of AMOGs. To me, this is really important stuff, although maybe nobody will get it or maybe its more obvious to them so its redundant. Anywayz.... I’m sitting at one of the computers in my student center, and I see an AMOG from the other night. I had been working a 2set, and he’d come into the set. One thing I love to do when an AMOG enters the set, is this really simple coin snatch trick that I learned from Mystery (he actually learned it from a dude at the Guvernment club / www.theguvernment.com, my favourite club in Toronto, whose girlfriend he was stealing, but this guy showed him the trick so he lost interest in the girl and just learned it). I can’t post it because its Mystery’s (him and Style are sticky about that stuff, whereas I just post all my shit because if I get caught in a repeat I just think its funny), but really this doesn’t matter. The idea is just learn ANY BASIC TRICK. Then you can use this kind of tactic. Just learn anything. The coin thing isn’t even magic. It’s just a dumb trick that happens to be field tested and shown to work extremely well. But you can use bar bets or ANYTHING. So anyway, what I’ll do is that the AMOG will enter the set and the girls will start chatting him because they know him. But I’ll say “Dude dude dude, CHECK THIS OUT.. Alright, hold your hand out.” and do the trick on him. Now what this accomplishes, is that you’re OWNING the guy right in front of the girls. Rather than sitting there like a puppydog, hoping that the girls will come back to you, you just take over the set by demonstrating something to him, where he’s having to take directions from you in order to see it. Also important is that on occassion the alpha will know what’s happening, and just not agree to do it. Most guys will back down from this, but instead I just CUT HIM OUT OF REALITY. I say something dismissive like “Cool dude, its OK to be shy man, I was like that before too.. anyway HBwhatever, check this out, its AWESOME”, with HIGH ENERGY because girls are drawn to that, and then you can blow him out of the set because the girls focus on you and there’s nothing he can do about it. If he’s a member of the set (close friend or whatever), then later on say “Dude, I’m just chilling man.. Just shooting the shit.. I didn’t mean to fuck with you.. What’s your name, man?” and because of SOCIAL PRESSURE, he’ll supplicate you and actually be receptive to your attempts to get rapport with him, because inside he feels what you’ve done to his status, and he just wants a quick-fix to regain it. So if you stroke his ego just a BIT, he’ll now RESPECT you and befriend you. Even help you. But do this later, AFTER you’ve blown him out, when he’s sitting there like a pouting puppydog. The thing is, and this is IMPORTANT, is that these AMOGs have natural tendencies to still fuck you over, and make it look like you’re qualifying yourself. In this case, the guy just thought that I was cool, and social proofed me to the girls (who invited me out to the club tonight, actually). But typically, they’ll do this like this: EXAMPLES: You’re showing people pictures. He’ll come in and yell out “WICKED! Pictures! Awesome man, its like a little show. Show me your little show, man! This is awesome stuff! Man, these girls are loving this shit. (grabs them from you) Hey girls, check these out!” Like they do what I remember I once called “USURPING THE GLORY”, in an old alpha post I wrote. Actually I’m just remembering that post now. It’s funny how this stuff evolves, because that very post (I think it was called “10 Alpha Behaviours - for breakbeat, so DAFS if interested) was the first post where I was sitting down and trying to figure out what the fuck these big annoying fuckers were doing to maintain their alpha status all the time. Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah, last night. I see this guy with a girl. He decides that he’s going to outalpha me in a friendly way, to build value to his girlfriend. He stops beside me at the computer, with this girl on his arm, and says “Hey check out this guy’s little trick. It’s the bomb. He can grab a coin out of your hand in like 1 second. Show her the shit man. Show her.” Alphas always try to do this stupid shit. I think its funny, because this guy obviously has no idea what he’s dealing with. So he puts out his hand to make me do it on him. I stand up and smirk, and then put out my hand for his girl to be the one I do it on. Right there, I’m now disobeying him, smirking at him like I’m not even saying much to him other than just being dismissive, and controlling the set the way I want it done. Immediately she touches me and shows IOIs. I say “For you man, I’d do anything. I met this guy last night, and he was the shit. I just KNEW I had to impress him”. Then I put my hand on his shoulder while I say this. He says “Yeah, check this out!”, like in this sort of alpha way that I can’t really explain on the internet, but he’s trying to like redirect the set. But I cut him off just as the last word “out” is coming out of his mouth, and I’m like “Dude, SSHHH.. This requires concentration. Stay still.” Then I run the trick, and she freaks out. Then I IMMEDIATELY start pumelling her with game, right in front of her guy. She’s touching me, giving IOIs, and I’m pushing her onto him. She tells me where she works (on campus), and qualifies herself to me by saying who her friends are (they’re the “cool” girls, who I’m better friends with than her), and you can tell that the interest is there. I actually LIKE this alpha guy, and he’s not a bad guy. So I don’t further attempt to steal his girl from him, because I feel validated at this point, and generally don’t want to cause problems in my small social circle at school. But he put me in the position where I could have, and I used his dumbass out-alpha attempts to pummel him with shit he didn’t expect.
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219 The moral here is that you need to OWN THE SET. Have DHVs ready that GUYS will like, so that you can own them, the second that they arrive. Anyway, this struck me as funny, and a good isolated example of something that almost every night that I go out. It’s subtle subcommunication, that girls respond to immediately. In fact, its a great way to convey value fast. Owning the men in a group.
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APPROACHING CHICKS WITH BF’S / DATES PU’ING A CHICK WHILE SHE’S WITH HER BOYFRIEND OR DATE - by fucking asshole inconsiderate womanizing bastard TylerDurden.. :) I guarantee its just as easy to attract a chick on a date or who is with her BF, as it is to attract a chick alone.. The problem, though, is CLOSING the chick.. I’ve successfully PU’ed several girls right in front of their boyfriends.. I’ve posted FRs on it, a good one from late December you can find in my old posts.. The chick from December even isolated herself with me, and tried to get me to fuck her in the bathroom of the club (WTF?!?!), while her BF was waiting for us to come back. You do it by approaching the guy, ignoring the girl, and teasing the fuck out of her.. the guy is disarmed, because he thinks “hahaha, this dude obviously has no chance with my chick, because he just called her a powerpuff girl.. he’ll never catch up with me, after all the roses and drinks I bought her..” Now that one chick SUGGESTED isolation on her own accord, and so her date had no choice but to say yes.. especially after I’d dissed her up so bad in his mind (really I just teased the hell out of her, which she totally loved).. MORE mini-FRs just to encourage you that this can be done: While in Pacific Beach with Manifestis, I made out with a chick while she was snuggling in the arms of her boyfriend, while Manifestis talked to him from a backwards angle and his neck was turned.. I could feel the boyfriend’s arms against my stomach while I made out with his girlfriend.. weird shit. In NYC, one of the students at MM workshop asked me to PU this chick with her BF.. He went and opened, and I teased the fuck out of the chick, and ran the A-Crowd routine on her by saying that her BOYFRIEND was in the A-Crowd with me, but that she wasn’t.. the dude high-fived me, and I ran the Gay-Cockblock routine (I’ll try to post this) where I say that I’m gay and that my wingman is my boyfriend, and to not touch him or I’ll get jealous and leave to go dance.. (chicks LOVE this routine, and it disarms guys since they’d NEVER think that chicks would like guys who say that they’re gay C&F style).. so I start kissing the chick, and the guy FREAKS OUT.. then Mystery comes in and does magic for the guy and he calms down, and it was cool.. AGAIN though, problems CLOSING.. Attracting is NO PROB, but CLOSING is harder.. But just TRY.. chat the guy, diss up the chick with negs and teases like crazy, and OBLIQUELY tell the guy COOL things about yourself so that the chick will over hear.. it looks like you’re just CHATTING and being SOCIAL, but you’re really obliquely conveying higher value to the chick, and teasing/negging/challenging/qualifying her, to get her all turned on. Again, teasing the girl while ignoring her and chatting the dude: 1) 2)
disarms the dude attracts the girl
Remember, sit or stand FACING the guy. • • • • • •
ACrowd routine, say guy is in A_Crowd with you gay cockblock routine call chick powerpuff girl call chick badgirl say “wait your turn.. is she always like this?” to the guy she’ll qualify herself to you, then say “is she trying to impress me?? does she really have that??”
All this DISARMS the guy, while ATTRACTING the girl.. Then just say “dude.. I think I fucking MAD pissed off your girl.. look, I’ll give her a palm reading under that light over there, just to give her some special attention, so she doesn’t like totally freak out.. cool?” I don’t even like palm-reading for my style, but I’ll use it as an excuse to isolate the chick, no doubt. Then meet-close her in isolation (unless you think she’ll run and escape out of the club with you, which has happened to me).. don’t try to #close, since she might LIVE with the dude.. OR, if you have a Sony Cliee, you can let her secretly punch in her # by first teasing her, and then FINALLY after she BEGS, showing her the digital photo routine after you showed her BF first, and prompting the phone# thing to come up.. take a chance, and see if she’ll enter it.. say “are you cool enough to be in here?” So hopefully these are encouraging stories, and you’ll post some FRs of your own about chicks you picked up in front of their boyfriends.. Good luck with it, and I think you have a good attitude for rising to the fun challenge. Think of it as LESS intimidating to approach a girl with a boyfriend, since obviously NOBODY would do something like that if their intention was to pickup. Personally I think its alot of fun to do this, because I can remember a year ago when I was scared to even approach a lone chick.. and now I can PU them right off a boyfriend.. fun shit.
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COUPLES ON DATES This is a LOT easier than it seems. Use the GUY as a MEDIUM to convey your personality to LIBERALLY. See, by having the guy right there you can: • • • •
open EASIER, since you are talking to a GUY neg her while talk to him (“wait your turn! is she always like this???”) show that you can handle yourself with other guys very well, out alpha him in a respectable way tell the guy ANYTHING that your TARGET would find interesting, and its NOT to her.. You’re not trying to impress her, you’re just talking
So there are clear advantages. It may not be EASIER, but there are advantages that you can EXPLOIT nonetheless. A big one, then, is that once you start chatting the chick (after C&F ballbusting her, negging her, and FINALLY after she’s EARNED some attention by saying something COMPELLING), you have to hold the guy off. One way to do that is to tell the guy that he reminds you of a certain celeb (credit Mys). Say “James.... er, sorry I keep wanting to call you James” (from whatever rockband you know personally,.... ha!) Also, the KEY is that while you’re talking to her, say to the guy “does she always do this??? she’s lying, does she really have that??? is she just impressing me???” This lowers his guard, and negs her at the same time. It’s also FLIRTING (as explained in the high-impact description in the thread below this one). But since he’s likely AFC, he NEVER sees it coming. So your C&F ballbusting her serves TWO purposes. 1) 2)
To DISARM the guy To ATTRACT the girl
Anyway, the only hard part is isolating or closing. Both times I’ve successfully done it, I just attracted the girl until she WANTED to be isolated and the guy couldn’t object since I’d shown him so much respect, and lowered any RATIONAL suspicions. But maybe there’s ways to contact close without him getting pissed, which I’ll figure out later (or someone could suggest one).
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TUG OF WAR – THE ULTIMATE PUA BATTLE Here’s how it goes down: The girl hits full buying temperature. Maybe you did it. Maybe another natural player did it. Maybe her boyfriend pissed her off and de-validated her. Maybe she’s on vacation, and she decides she wants it. Whatever the way, she’s decided she wants sex TONIGHT, and somebody is going to get it. You see this in Leceister Square in London England. The girls get hit on all night. The guys hitting on them are getting blown out left and right. But yet, at the same time, their buying temperature is escalating and escalating. And as we all know, buying temperature is TRANSFERABLE. You can literally walk up to a girl who is being picked up by a player, blow him out, and pull the girl and hook up with her within 45 minutes. I’ve done it in front of audiences, while they sit there jaw dropped. It appears that I’ve done something inconceivable, when in fact what I’ve done it stupidly easy, just as long as you have a bit of balls. In nighttime social environments, pickup is all about FOLLOW THE SHINY THING GIRLS.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW IT.. FOLLOW THE SHINY THING.. ITS GOING OVER HERE.. :) That’s a metaphor I first got from Toecutter I think, and its funny as hell because its true. In clubs, girls are like little kittens in a prairie, jumping from one stimulus to the next. Chase the butterfly little kitten.. chase it.. chase it.. no wait, a leaf.. chase it.. no wait!, a bird... chaaaaase it.... Girls in clubs, its the same shit. Dance.... Dance.... Drink.. Drink.... No wait! Lights! Music!!! Guys hitting on us... We’re listening to them... They’re fun.... No wait! They’re players... Runnn awaaaaaay!!!! Wait, its my BEST FRIEND... I LOVE HER... HUG MY BEST FRIEND!!! GRIND HER!!!! God, how do I deal with this shit on a nightly basis? It’s like they’re on crack. Do you guys see this shit? They see their friends and they run up and scream and hug eachother? At clubs, most girls look like mindless stimulation seeking zombies. When I run workshops, I call this “the girl is about to pop”. What that means is that you’ll be running the set, but one of them can’t quite hear you or isn’t fully interested. And you see her eyes wandering, and she’s looking around the club. It’s like “This isn’t stimulating enough.. Zombie needs more stimulation.. Seek stimulation.. Find it.. Maintain buying temperature.. Zombie LIKES buying temperature... dancing.. .dancing is buying temperature.... Zombie likes dancing... Let’s go dance.. Zombie needs zombie friends to come with zombie, so zombie is safe...” GUYS.... - LET’S - GO - DANCE!!! And POOF, your set is GONE. Your target girl could have LOVED you, but the second her friends say “Let’s go dance”, it is fucking OVER. I’ll see one of the girls looking around, seeking out other stimulation, and I’ll blurt out to my wing “dude, that one’s about to pop”, and then its “Hey! Show’s over here!”, to the chick (like from my “How to take the fuck over a set” post I wrote a few weeks ago). Anyway, getting back to the topic of tug of war, this is the shit I see all the time. The girl hits buying temperature, and now its whoever has the biggest shiny thing that will fuck her that night. I’ll have girls telling me they love me and asking where I’m going after the club closes, and then some other dude will move in, and she’ll ignore me and act like I don’t exist. Literally, she’ll just cut me out of her reality. Then I’ll go in and blow the guy out, and he’ll leave, and then the girl will be my best friend again. Bros, this is the harsh world of pickup. It’s a cold cruel world... :) This shit reminds me of rams butting heads on the mating ground. It’s fucking crazy some of the shit I’ve seen and done. In Las Vegas, I took this girl away from a guy who’d been gaming her all night. I was macking out with her and she’s all over me. She says she wants to go home with me and that the guy she’s with is a chump (even though she is clearly into him, but she just likes me more now, since I opened her even though the guy was right there). We go to leave the casino, and her friend wants to back in for one last second and say bye to the guys. The guy I took her from grabs her back chats her for a few minutes, and next thing you know he walks her around the casino for the next 45 minutes while I sit there waiting like a puppydog.. FUCK, so CLOSE.. Like I had them at the cab stand, and now I’m back in here by myself??? My girl comes back and says she can’t go home with me anymore, while I see the guy smiling that he’s got her now. I go off to the side, over to the friend and say that I’m gay, and that I want my girl (her best friend) to be my new best friend and to take her shopping tommorow morning. “Can I stay over?” She believes it, and cockblocks the guy who was about to pull the girl that we were fighting over, and we all go home together. The girl hates me, but her buying temperature is up and she needs sex. Oh yeah, did I mention that she was engaged? Anyway, she’s fucking hot as hell, I’m there, she’s there, and boom, its a done deal. This was hard core tug of war. The same thing I did in Montreal, when I gamed up this set until they’re ready to go home with me and my wing (while the students watch this go down), but then I have to leave to continue the workshop because its too early in the night, so I leave. Meanwhile some natural french player guys move in and start making out with these girls within about 3 minutes! Why? Because the girls buying temperature is up, and these guys can sense it and they exploit it.
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223 Now these girls want to leave with these 2 french player dudes. So I go in with Stephane (of Cliff’s List fame), and I make best friends with the two girls and tell them that I love their friend because I love them, and that I want to be best friends with them and that I we’ll all be happy together, blah blah.. The girls cockblock the player guys and tell their friends all to go back to my house (incidentally its Cliff’s house from Cliff’s List, who I’m staying with). Our targets keep trying to go back with the French player guys, but I just cockblock the shit out of them by continually whispering into the obstacles ears that I need help from them. In this case there was a fuckup which I talked about in another post. Either way, the French guys were jaw-dropped when we waved, winked, and laughed at them, as we took away their girls. I’ve done this SO MANY times. I’ll see a girl who’s ready to be pulled, and I just go befriend the obstacles. The obstacles know that their friend is going to sleep with SOMEBODY, so they do what it takes to make sure that somebody is me. This is hardcore tug of war. You can see it outside clubs at closing times. Accounts are being worked out. Guys are chatting the girls they grinded with all night, trying to get them to “go to the afterbar” or “go eat” with them. That’s how the pull always goes down. It’s first to go eat or party more or do drugs or drink at a house or hotel, and one thing leads to another. JLaix uses “We’re going to Club Jeffy”. Same type of shit. I’ve also lost alot of tug of war battles in my day. Of course this is because I’ll go into the battle even in spite of knowing that my odds are poor. I do it just for the education. The other night in Kingston I had this girl ready to leave with me. I also had a date that night with a hotter girl, and ditched this girl at around 11pm. Twentysix was visiting me in Kingston, and we drove over to the girls house, but I realized that I’d forgotten the address. FUCK. So I go back to the club. Surprise, surprise....... The girl is grinding and making out with some new guy, about to go home with him. Of course, its because I upped her buying temperature FOR the guy. FACK!!! So I get the friends of the girl to drag her off of him for me. Now she’s all up on me. She’s mine. But I leave for the bathroom for a minute, and I come back and watch the dude who was grinding with her pull her home and fuck her (I found out the next day, because I befriended the friends and called them). Likewise, I was in Whistler Blackcomb, in British Columbia last weekend. For guys who don’t know what that is, its one of the top ski resorts in the world. Fucking AMAZING place to go. Totally amazing experience. So we ski all day, and go clubbing at night. Twentysix and I had gamed up this 2set the night previous, and had a day2 planned with them at one of the bars on the resort. We show up 2 hours late, and these 2 player guys have moved in on our girls. I underestimate them, because our girls run up to us. I figure they’re some lameasses. They weren’t good looking or big or anything. I say to my girls “Let’s get out of here”, and they’re ready to leave. Out of nowhere, the player guy walks in and says “Let’s go do kareoke”. I laugh at him internally, because I think he’s AFC. But then I notice something. It’s subtle, but its clearly there. He’s not leaning in. He’s not looking needy. He’s directing her what to do. He’s alpha. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKK - He’s a player and I misread the play. Despite being about to leave with us, I watch this guy walk in and outalpha me (I sat there indifferent because I couldn’t CONCEIVE that this guy could be a player), and take my girls from me. We all go to the next club together, and he has her and I’m looking lame for following along. Twentysix’s girl likes him though, and is deciding between this guys’ friend and Twentysix. Twentysix’s competition isn’t too bad, so he blows him out. But the girl tells me “HB decided yesterday after meeting you guys that she was going to get laid tonight. And you guys just came too late.” Twentysix runs the typical routine that we run when this happens, where one girl is ON but the other girl isn’t. He tells his girl that if her friend isn’t going to make it fun for me that he’ll just leave. His girl begs her friend to hook up with me, but the player guy has me by the balls. I actually learned a SHITLOAD from watching this guy work, which I’ve since encorporated into my game to great effect. So Twentysix games up some other girl who he NEARLY pulls (a super cute blondie, much hotter than his girl), and both girls go home and fuck these two new guys who blew me out. FUCK FUCK FUCK... I go home alone that night. The same way that many guys have gone home alone because of me. OUCH, I know how it feels now... ahhahaa, its all a game anyway, so I there’s winners and losers. I’ll be a winner again, and I’m sure I’ll lose alot of them too. For me, when I see its GAME ON with the tug of war, I have key tool’s at my disposal: 1) Unlike 99% of natural players, I know that the key to the target is her peergroup. I befriend the obstacles and bring them ALL home together. I literally TELL DIRECTLY to the obstacles to pull her friends off the competing players, because I like and want to date her friend so that way we can all be a happy family. 2) I’m willing to sit in set and just chat the obstacles, while the players up the target’s buying temperature for me, and I wait for the perfect time to make my move. 3) Out-alpha tactics, posted in “Some AMOG tactics” post I did a while back. 4) Social proof and jealousy. Unlike most players, I can walk into adjacent sets and blow them up, right in front of the girl I want. 5) Tell the obstacles that I’m gay, and worried about the target, and that I want to be her new gay best friend and take her shopping, and I want to save her from that guy. Then the friends push the girl on me and leave her alone with me, and the target has no idea what I’ve told the friends. In cases where the target hear’s that I told the friends that I was gay, I just say either that I was joking, and then makeout and hookup with the target, or I say they’re wrong, or they never said it.. Whatever. 6) I throw up the BIGGER SHINY THING.. I’ll do a magic trick (I rarely use them, but I’ll use them and make the competing guy player be the guy I do the trick on).. I have this one where I snatch a coin out of the guys’ hand, that’s not really magic that I learned at an MM Workshop. It’s basic, but it works because you OWN the guy in front of the girl. I also just plow them with stories or bring over other girls and introduce them, and then tell the pawn-girls I brought over to chat the guy, and then take my girl back. Again, notice that I NEVER give up. If I see a girl with her buying
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224 temperature up, I LOVE the challenge of competing against other players. You see this in Leceister Square in London at the end of EVERY Friday and Saturday night. The girls are walking around totally in state, and the player guys are coming up to them one by one until one of them pulls them. Crazy shit. Anyway, this is a fun thing that I like to do, and I know most other PUAs aren’t doing this stuff. I really encourage you guys to have no fear of approaching even 1guy/1girl two sets, and taking the girls. You’d be surprised how often the two barely know eachother. Also, if you EVER and I mean EVER see natural players gaming up girls, never be afraid to go in and open ONLY the girls. How do you know if its natural players? Hahaha, well, I hate to say this, but 9 times out of 10, if the girls look like they’re having a good time (ie: they’re giggly or touching the guy alot), then its a pickup, NOT a boyfriend with his longterm girlfriend. Why? Because girls aren’t having fun if they’re with their LTR. They usually only have fun with players. haaa, sad but true. So if you see girls all giddy, then its probably a pickup, and you can easily swoop in and play a little tug of war with the other PUAs. It’s fun, and I often make friends with the other natural PUAs who I’m competing against. In fact some of my friends I’ve met in the field are players whose girls I’ve taken home right from them, earned their respect, and now we hang out. I have a ton more to say on this topic also, which maybe I’ll post someday or in addition to this. Tug of war is something I do all the time, and I encourage you guys to give it a shot because its WAY easier than it looks. It looks tough, but if you just use the principles you learn from ASF, you’ll find its in fact very easy. Just ignore the social situation, and PLOW THEM FUCK OUT OF THE GIRLS WITH ROUTINES right in front of the guys. Easy shit, and great for ONS.
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LOCKUP Field tested alot in the past 2 weeks, and is working unexpectedly well so far.. What I’ve been doing is recognizing when a girl in the set isn’t into it or locking up, and saying early on “she’s not into this.. I don’t want to be one of those guys.... I don’t want to split up your group”.. Then back off a bit, or do backturns. Sometimes I’ll even say, “she’s just going to drag you off in a minute anyway, and I don’t want you guys to be split up..”, which when she does try to drag her off, you just say “see.. she’s the drag away girl.. you’re going to leave now..”, which the chick knows that she’ll come off like she can’t think for herself if she leaves now that you showed you recognize it, so she stays and blows off the CB. Also, you can say “your friend is locked up..” HB responds what? Then say, “yeah.. my little sister was telling me that when she meets guys that she’s not totally comfortable around yet, and they start asking questions or come off like they want something, she kind of freezes up and she can’t move or give proper answers.. see look” and then go “high-5” to the locked up chick, and of course she won’t give it back, which technically is ridiculous.. then laugh at bit, and say “see! she’s locked up.. :)” The locked up chick will often start laughing, because she realizes that she can’t move (common in clubs, especially when winging with newbies), she’ll either laugh, or your target will laugh and social proof you. Often the girls that are showing IOIs to start grabbing their friend whose locking up, and saying shit like “hey, they’re cool.. these guys are awesome.. blah blah” Social proofs you, until they unlock and you bring them into the set. Also, if you’re running 2sets with a wing, and your chick is liking you but your wing’s chick isn’t liking him, use your leverage to get your wing in with his chick, by getting your chick to social proof him “no Sue, this guys cool.. I like him, he’s cool..” Especially since if he loses her, you’re probably fucked also. I’ve been using this with newbies who wing with me, and its what’s allowed me all the pulls lately even though I’m winging with newer who in the past would have blown me out. Tonight results (used on every set): Every proper set I ran ended either with the girl offering up the # without me asking, or offering to leave with me. Literally, every single one - like no exaggeration. Of course I’m in Ft. Lauterdale Florida, which is probably the easiest turf I’ve ever seen.
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HOW TO TAKE THE FUCK OVER A SET In group sets, you always see some of the girls who aren’t paying full attention, starting to “let’s go dance” you. I can always sense it as it comes. You can see the one of the girls starting to look around a bit....... She’s looking towards the dance floor....... She’s not listening to you even though her friends are.............. “LET’S GO DANCE”, and POOF the whole set leaves. To me, I TAKE THE FUCK OVER every set. I take it by the balls and OWN the set. The reason I write that in such a testosteron-ish melodramatic way, is that so many guys don’t take the fucking set over. They let the set run them, they don’t run the set. For me, there are things I do to take a set. 1) “SHOW’S OVER HERE” That is the money fucking line for girls who aren’t paying attention. Tap her on the shoulder lightly, and go “Hey.. Show’s over here”, and then look immediately away from her and smirk to her friends, and keep going. It’s very dismissive, and funny as fuck. I know it doesn’t sound that funny in text, but just try it on a set and watch them bust out laughing. I will CONSTANTLY and REPEATEDLY say “shows is over here” to the chicks as they look away. PLOW THROUGH. Just keep on the gameplan, and IGNORE them basically. 2) “ARE YOU MULTITASKING ME?” Haa, I learned that from this supremely socially proofed super cool gay dude on my campus. He doesn’t take bullshit from anybody (he’s the most popular person on my entire campus). He’s chatting me, and there are girls tugging on me left and right. He’s like “Tyler, are you multitasking me”, and he just walks off. It was fucking pimp, even if it was from a gay dude. 3) “YOU GUYS ARE LIKE LITTLE KITTENS IN A PRAIRIE, JUMPING FROM ONE STIMULUS TO THE NEXT.. OH LOOK, ITS A BUTTERFLY.. NO WAY, A BIRD!!! NO WAIT... A LEAF!!!!” Then laugh at them for being retarded. 4) BEAT THEM TO THE PUNCH. Alright, this is weird, but if that damned OUTKAST “HEY YA” song comes on, I just say scream to your friend and run like hell to the dancefloor. Why do I say this? Because that fucking song always fucks up my set. I can have a girl making out with me, and that song comes on and she books it to the dancefloor without even saying ‘bye’, and then later accuses me of leaving her. WTF¿!?! So to pre-emptively counter-strike this bullshit, Twentysix and I just started doing it to them FIRST, before they can do it to us. So we do that, and the girls laugh at it, and then we make fun of them for being about to do it to us. For future readers of this archive, there’s always some hot new song that fucks you over in set. So just do that for whatever song it is. 5) CALL THEM ON THEIR BULLSHIT BODYLANGUAGE. If I’m rolling up on a set sitting down at a bar, and they don’t turn around when I pull up a chair, I’ll call them on it. I’ll say shit like “Right now, if someone were to look, it would look like I’m one of those lame guys trying to get your attention, because you’re turned away from me. I want to chat you guys for a sec, but if you’re not going to turn around, I’m leaving right now to go hang with my friends. 6) SAY YOU HATE THEM WHEN YOU RE-ENGAGE. If they leave mid-set, always re-engage them by saying you hate them. They’ll apologize for leaving. This is also useful for when some contingency breaks apart your set, like a bar fight or someone puking, etc. 7) COMMENT ON ALL NON-FAVOURABLE BODYLANGUAGE. If a friend is locked up, say “She thinks I’m weird”. The girls will freak and giggle that you could read their bodylanguage and lockup. 8) CALL THE PEERGROUP FOR BLOCKING YOU. I’ll say “Are you the jealous drag away friend? Honestly, I’m trying to chat this girl because she’s the first girl I’ve met in a club that I liked in a while, but honestly I’m leaving now because of you, since I know that if I don’t get along with a girls friends, its all pointless, because you’ll fuck it up on me after I leave and negative girl eyecode her. Why are you acting like this?” I also say shit like “WTF??? Are you about to let’s-just-go-dance me? Or we’re-going-to-the-bathroom-ing me??? I haven’t had that since I was 19.. WTF???” 9) PLOW THEM WITH TONALITY THAT ENGAGES THE GROUP. I project so fucking loud, the entire group must listen. I constantly engage the whole set, looking at
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227 every girl. If you don’t do this, you will NEVER pull from groups consistently. You must engage the entire group. 10) IGNORE THEIR THREADS, AND DON’T LET THEM STALE THEIR OWN SET. Girls will go into their own threads, and start their own conversations, mid set. Cut them off. Pretend you didn’t hear. If they direct their own convo logical, they’ll BORE THEMSELVES out of state. Stick to your gameplan, and RUN THE SET, DO NOT LET THE SET RUN YOU. I have to laugh at all the KJ’s who have no clue, that will think or write “That’s terrible.. It won’t work.. blah blah.. They’ll think you’re obnoxious”, when in reality, if you don’t do this in a club, you’re fucked. That is the reality of clubs.
RULES AND UNDERSTANDINGS: Clubs are STIMULUS venues for girls. They go their and are like ZOMBIES jumping from one stimulus to the next. BE THE NEXT STIMULUS. In danceclubs, BE FLAKIER AND LESS ATTENTIVE THAN THEM. Make it look like you’re going to leave or get distracted by all the pretty lights and music. Be like a chick. Don’t say ‘hi’ or acknowledge the chicks if you see them later. This isn’t so much the case in lounge, but whenever re-initiating, never forget that they STILL are NOT your friends. You must re-initiate them with something stimulating, or you’re blown out. SIT with the chick ASAP. GET COMFORTABLE IN THE SET. Girls can tell instantly when you’re being an entertainment monkey. If the set is seated, DO NOT bend over and try to get their attention. STAND UP STRAIGHT, say the first sentence of your opener, and then 30-second false time constrain and sit and IMMEDIATELY jump into more of the opener or material. More important, is that so many guys I see never get into proper kino. What I mean, is that you want to be sitting at a bar stool, with her standing in between your legs with her hands on yours (your hands are palms up). You can kino-ping and also throw her hands away periodically. The TRUST-TEST will allow you to constantly take her hands, without her getting ASD. Get her on the couch, or on your lap, or SOMEWHERE COMFY that you can WORK. TAKE OVER THE SET, don’t be a loser who stands there in the middle of the club, too afraid to take charge and move the pickup somewhere comfy. Have fun - play the game.
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228 In group sets, you always see some of the girls who aren’t paying full attention, starting to “let’s go dance” you. I can always sense it as it comes. You can see the one of the girls starting to look around a bit....... She’s looking towards the dance floor....... She’s not listening to you even though her friends are.............. “LET’S GO DANCE”, and POOF the whole set leaves. To me, I TAKE THE FUCK OVER every set. I take it by the balls and OWN the set. The reason I write that in such a testosteron-ish melodramatic way, is that so many guys don’t take the fucking set over. They let the set run them, they don’t run the set. For me, there are things I do to take a set. 1)
“SHOW’S OVER HERE” That is the money fucking line for girls who aren’t paying attention. Tap her on the shoulder lightly, and go “Hey.. Show’s over here”, and then look immediately away from her and smirk to her friends, and keep going. It’s very dismissive, and funny as fuck. I know it doesn’t sound that funny in text, but just try it on a set and watch them bust out laughing. I will CONSTANTLY and REPEATEDLY say “shows is over here” to the chicks as they look away. PLOW THROUGH. Just keep on the gameplan, and IGNORE them basically.
2)
“ARE YOU MULTITASKING ME?” Haa, I learned that from this supremely socially proofed super cool gay dude on my campus. He doesn’t take bullshit from anybody (he’s the most popular person on my entire campus). He’s chatting me, and there are girls tugging on me left and right. He’s like “Tyler, are you multitasking me”, and he just walks off. It was fucking pimp, even if it was from a gay dude.
3)
“YOU GUYS ARE LIKE LITTLE KITTENS IN A PRAIRIE, JUMPING FROM ONE STIMULUS TO THE NEXT.. OH LOOK, ITS A BUTTERFLY.. NO WAY, A BIRD!!! NO WAIT... A LEAF!!!!” Then laugh at them for being retarded.
4)
BEAT THEM TO THE PUNCH. Alright, this is weird, but if that damned OUTKAST “HEY YA” song comes on, I just say scream to your friend and run like hell to the dancefloor. Why do I say this? Because that fucking song always fucks up my set. I can have a girl making out with me, and that song comes on and she books it to the dancefloor without even saying ‘bye’, and then later accuses me of leaving her. WTF¿!?! So to pre-emptively counter-strike this bullshit, Twentysix and I just started doing it to them FIRST, before they can do it to us. So we do that, and the girls laugh at it, and then we make fun of them for being about to do it to us. For future readers of this archive, there’s always some hot new song that fucks you over in set. So just do that for whatever song it is.
5)
CALL THEM ON THEIR BULLSHIT BODYLANGUAGE. If I’m rolling up on a set sitting down at a bar, and they don’t turn around when I pull up a chair, I’ll call them on it. I’ll say shit like “Right now, if someone were to look, it would look like I’m one of those lame guys trying to get your attention, because you’re turned away from me. I want to chat you guys for a sec, but if you’re not going to turn around, I’m leaving right now to go hang with my friends. 6) SAY YOU HATE THEM WHEN YOU RE-ENGAGE. If they leave mid-set, always re-engage them by saying you hate them. They’ll apologize for leaving. This is also useful for when some contingency breaks apart your set, like a bar fight or someone puking, etc. 7) 8)
COMMENT ON ALL NON-FAVOURABLE BODYLANGUAGE. If a friend is locked up, say “She thinks I’m weird”. The girls will freak and giggle that you could read their bodylanguage and lockup. CALL THE PEERGROUP FOR BLOCKING YOU. I’ll say “Are you the jealous drag away friend? Honestly, I’m trying to chat this girl because she’s the first girl I’ve met in a club that I liked in a while, but honestly I’m leaving now because of you, since I know that if I don’t get along with a girls friends, its all pointless, because you’ll fuck it up on me after I leave and negative girl eyecode her. Why are you acting like this?” I also say shit like “WTF??? Are you about to let’s-just-go-dance me? Or we’re-going-to-the-bathroom-ing me??? I haven’t had that since I was 19.. WTF???”
9)
PLOW THEM WITH TONALITY THAT ENGAGES THE GROUP. I project so fucking loud, the entire group must listen. I constantly engage the whole set, looking at every girl. If you don’t do this, you will NEVER pull from groups consistently. You must engage the entire group. 10) IGNORE THEIR THREADS, AND DON’T LET THEM STALE THEIR OWN SET. Girls will go into their own threads, and start their own conversations, mid set. Cut them off. Pretend you didn’t hear. If they direct their own convo logical, they’ll BORE THEMSELVES out of state. Stick to your gameplan, and RUN THE SET, DO NOT LET THE SET RUN YOU. I have to laugh at all the KJ’s who have no clue, that will think or write “That’s terrible.. It won’t work.. blah blah.. They’ll think you’re obnoxious”, when in reality, if you don’t do this in a club, you’re fucked. That is the reality of clubs.
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229 RULES AND UNDERSTANDINGS: Clubs are STIMULUS venues for girls. They go their and are like ZOMBIES jumping from one stimulus to the next. BE THE NEXT STIMULUS. In danceclubs, BE FLAKIER AND LESS ATTENTIVE THAN THEM. Make it look like you’re going to leave or get distracted by all the pretty lights and music. Be like a chick. Don’t say ‘hi’ or acknowledge the chicks if you see them later. This isn’t so much the case in lounge, but whenever re-initiating, never forget that they STILL are NOT your friends. You must re-initiate them with something stimulating, or you’re blown out. SIT with the chick ASAP. GET COMFORTABLE IN THE SET. Girls can tell instantly when you’re being an entertainment monkey. If the set is seated, DO NOT bend over and try to get their attention. STAND UP STRAIGHT, say the first sentence of your opener, and then 30-second false time constrain and sit and IMMEDIATELY jump into more of the opener or material. More important, is that so many guys I see never get into proper kino. What I mean, is that you want to be sitting at a bar stool, with her standing in between your legs with her hands on yours (your hands are palms up). You can kino-ping and also throw her hands away periodically. The TRUST-TEST will allow you to constantly take her hands, without her getting ASD. Get her on the couch, or on your lap, or SOMEWHERE COMFY that you can WORK. TAKE OVER THE SET, don’t be a loser who stands there in the middle of the club, too afraid to take charge and move the pickup somewhere comfy. Have fun - play the game.
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DOWNPLAYING GIRLS HAVING FITS: “OK big truck, gear down” “OK snuggle monkey is needing her cuddles.. Whose turn is it?” “You’re cute. I like you (then IMMEDIATE backturn and walk off into another set)” FROM JLAIX: “OK funhaters can’t play.. are you a fun hater?” CANNED OPENERS •
if you don’t feel GOOD about the canned opener, it will bomb. Right now, I’ve used most of my canned openers so many times, that they literally won’t open anymore. Back when I first used the ‘Ricki Lake’, I thought it was HILARIOUS.. I was like “hahah this is the SHIT.. tricking girls into thinking I’m on TV just to initiate PUs”.. But after doing it literally 200-300 times, I got so fedup with it that it simply WILL NOT OPEN. So if he feels that way RIGHT AWAY, then it probably will have the same effect. • a canned opener is NOT supposed to be your 100% go-to opener. It’s what you use when you see a chick, follow 3s-rule and walk up, and can’t think of anything spontaneous. IMO, its better to not violate 3s-rule and use a canned opener, than to sit there for a minute or two thinking of how to open. If you’re GOOD at improv, then you have no need for canned openers. I’m decent at it, but I prefer the tried-and-tested canned opener most of the time.. If my improv skills improve, I may drop them altogether. • Nobody ever said that strawberry fields and other games were meant to attract. It’s GROUP THEORY. They get you SOCIAL PROOF, or provide an EXCUSE to isolate. Other than that, you can use them as an excuse to continue a convo later on (IOW, to #close her), or maybe to use as a more fascinating convo topic than “my car drives fast, and I work at IBM”.. So use them as BAIT, not as attractors. Canned stuff is excellent either for specific purposes (groups, isolations, etc), or for guys who aren’t skilled at either closing via projecting sexual state, or closing via conversational skills of the highest calibre (or perhaps they do have convo skills, but they can’t use them in the presence of gorgeous women). Canned openers that you LIKE can be great in certain situations because they allow you to focus on the HOW and not the WHAT.. they allow you to use your precious processor time to worry about HOW you are saying it as well as watch her response. Have opener and a first routine that the opener can lead into. Have 2 or 3 more routines to move into automatically. That way you can just go in and unleash the beast. Canned routines are canned because they are TRIED and TESTED. You need not always use this stuff, but HAVE it in case you NEED it. In a sarge, you are trying to get from point A to point B as efficiently as possible. PU’s can be made to have a loose STRUCTURE. If you are too COMMITED to that structure then you will LOSE OUT on many occassions. But if you find a model that has worked for you (inevitable if you sarge regularly) then you can try following it again at certain junctures or if certain situations arise. If you know that a particular story will be very likely to put a girl into a state that you can close her, then that may work as a nice closing routine. Who here can call the evolution phase kiss close not a good routine for club PUs?? One discrepancy on this board about routines is that people have different DEFINITIONS of routines. Its important to specify what you’re talking about -> OTHER people’s stuff, or YOUR stuff. I use mostly MY stuff that isn’t posted here, but I do use SOME stuff from other people if I happen to like it. Typically, I’ll enjoy a new opener around 100 times, and then it is DEAD. Incidentally, I need some new canned openers right now.
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BUSTING GIRLS ON THEIR MANNERISMS I’m always fucking around with new shit, and here’s the latest routine I like pulling on girls in clubs or public gatherings, to get the ball rolling - busting them on their manneurisms. The idea is that I steal their frame, and show them that I know what they’re up to. This seems to work well because: • • • •
they laugh hysterically at it, so it starts getting them into state they can’t as easily use their best defenses, because they’ll look like they’re feeding into what you expect of them (same idea as trapsetting - they act bitchy “oh, you guys ARE badgirls”) you show that you know the game, and therefore you have IMPLICIT social proof, because you obviously have met alot of girls in your day you give them alot of comfort, because it shows that you understand alot how they feel and what they’re going through while you game them
CHICK MANNEURISMS: 1) 2) 3) 4) 5)
Saying they have to go to the bathroom, and blowing you off, when you say something wrong. Looking at eachother constantly (“girlcode”) while you game them. Saying “hey, we’re Lesbians.. she’s my girlfriend, leave her alone” Dragging the friends away, while one of them is at buying temperature and sort of reaches back like she doesn’t want to go while the CB drags her off. In a 2set, one girl is interested in the one of the guys, but the other isn’t, so she leaves so her friend isn’t lonely.
ROUTINES: 1) 2)
3)
4)
5)
When a girl says something you can misinterpret as being bad, you say “ummm.. I have to go to the bathroom”. When the girls look at eachother, say “Hey, ummmm is that girlcode?! You know me and my friend have a code too.. Watch”.. Then, say “look, you keep doing it!” (point at their two faces) What happens is that by you SAYING it, they’ll look at eachother out of reflex, and then realize you’re right (giggle hysterically). Then, you say “you know we have our own GUY CODE”, and every time they say something, you and your wing look all shocked at eachother simultaneously. They’ll laugh at this also. Drop it, but then LATER on, to get a laugh from them, you can do it again. Say “hey.. umm this is my BOYFRIEND.. leave him alone” Girls know this frame, and they know they use it all the time on guys they don’t like, so they’ll laugh their heads off. (Of course your friends will wonder WTF you’re doing, false disqualifying yourself like this.. I noticed some guys post back “TD tells chicks he’s gay”, and I worry that guys will go out and act on this based on a third party interpretation). So faking being gay is COCKY-FUNNY, not REAL. It’s meant to be PLAYFULLY pushing them away (push/pull). If one of the friends is about to drag her friend away, say “hey, you’re the drag away girl.. you know I’m the drag away guy”, and then DRAG your wing off, while he looks like a deer in the headlights, and reaches his hand out to the girlset while you drag him off. Just drag him a few feet until the girls laugh their heads off, and then come back..Congrats, the CB loves you, and you’re still in the set. In a 2set, if your chick loves you, but your wingman’s chick isn’t digging him (coincidentally usually the uglier chick, who is pissed at her friend hitting buying temperature too quickly), say to your chick “hey.. you’re awesome, but my friend is getting bored cause your friend isn’t being open with him.. I don’t want him to be all alone so we’re going to go”. If she likes you, she’ll start social proofing your wing, saying “he’s cool.. he’s cool..” and making her friend get into your wing. This way, you don’t get blown out of the set. The set should split into 2 conversations at this point, and you’re both IN if you don’t fuck it up.
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CALLING CLUB GIRLS ON BEING UNGENUINE Sets that have only hot girls and no UGs or guys to open off of must be MERGED and not opened directly. Just get 2 HB7s on your arms, and roll into the set of hotties with them. Then tell the 2 HB7s to get their hands off of you, and that they have no chance with you.. Look at the group of HB9s and say “pffft... women.. anyway, get this..” If the HB7s get pissed off and ask why you brought them there then, act like you have no idea WTF they’re talking about, and turn your back on them the SAME way that the HB9s would turn their back on you. So IOW, don’t argue with the HB7s. Yep, its a sad world when this would turn chicks on, but it does, so don’t question it. Also, be careful not to be facing towards chicks when you open them. Have bodylanguage that looks disinterested, in order to disarm them. A final tactic that if you haven’t read I’d really check out (I love this shit), is what I’ve been doing lately... Check the “Frame Setting” post in “advanced”. What I do now, is literally CALL CHICKS OUT for being FAKE and INGENUINE. I’ll tease them for being fake, and that I think that most people are nice once you get to know them, and that they probably would NEVER act like this during the daytime.. Point out that if they think that guys in the club are that bad, then why do they go there??? Just to dance?? Also, that you understand that alot of guys get bold from alcohol and approach in incompetent/ingenuine ways, but that its bad if they’re going to let the bad guys ruin the GENUINE guys, and that they’re letting THEMSELVES become UNGENUINE people. NOBODY likes to be called fake and not genuine, so call them out on it. Do this in a FUN way, NOT argumentative. Look unbothered, and ALPHA. You may not lay them, but they’ll chat you for a while, and you can pawn the HB9s on another set for social proof. NO MORE VALUE CONVEYING AFTER VENUE CHANGE ONCE VENUE CHANGE TAKES PLACE, THERE IS NO FURTHER VALUE CONVEYING. She’s CHOSEN you, and now if you’re quiet, she’ll act like a GUY trying to game on a chick. The quiet will just attract her MORE, cause she’ll be worried that its not still ON (since you’re not trying super hard the way that 99% of guys do when they’re moving venues or back home). That means that you’ve already gotten full attraction, and now you’re in rapport. If she busts on you, or ignores you, you do simple punishment/reward. Most chicks don’t leave a club with you unless they biologically want you (you give them the excuse by not over-gaming in the club, and full seducing in the right isolated venue later on). Once we were at the party, the chicks already knew that we’d sarged 3 sets prior to them (like an hour worth of sarging that they saw, with girls giggling and all that), including some very snobby exclusive JAPs and a set of supermodels looking like they were going to run after us while we were all leaving together. They knew we were the shit. By continuing to sarge, it would have fucked HBJAP’s state. The solution to venue changes, including parties, is to just sit there and look TOTALLY COMFORTABLE WITH YOURSELF. Not trying to socialize or anything like that, it doesn’t matter. They’ve ALREADY CHOSEN YOU, so you can ONLY FUCK IT UP. I speak from many many BOTCHED post-club instant-dates, where I’d sarge at the next venue and botch it. I’d go home alone scratching my head like “WTF happened?” This shit never happens anymore though. Why? Cause these days I don’t worry about conveying more value, but trust the value I’ve built, and tend to just sit there, and wait them out. I find that chicks will always take me home if I do it like that. SAME goes for while you’re EN ROUTE while you switch venues. Don’t try to chat them the whole walk/drive. Just walk with your wing, and have your own convo. You’ll NEVER succeed in gaming them enough to keep them in state while you’re WALKING. It’s not realistic. Instead, TRUST the game that you laid in the club, and just walk to the next venue without trying TOO HARD. If talk happens, FINE. But don’t push for it. They’ve CHOSEN YOU, so anything you do is more likely to fuck it up than it is to help (especially if they’ve already chosen you on a biological level). Just wait until they’re alone, and THEN do your thing. Careful here though. Use PUNISHMENT/REWARD once she’s chosen you, and you’re in rapport. Don’t use C&F comebacks or shit test passing measures. PURE punishment/reward. David D says “attraction is not a choice”. Remember that. If she’s attracted, just use punishment/reward, don’t try to continue attracting her. Good feedback, cause it gave me the chance to address these issues. You’re on pretty much the exact page I was on about 3 months ago, but since I’ve done it this way its gotten full results. Give it a shot man, you won’t regret it. Just re-read the post on push/pull that I just recently wrote, and use the stuff about bodylanguage push/pull, which is the ESSENCE of punishment/reward (IOW, when they shit test, don’t diffuse it with C&F, but just punish through withdrawal of attention). Basically, when you’re in a club where by virtue of BEING THERE you’re socially proofed, there’s an entirely DIFFERENT way of doing things. Normally we go: • • •
attraction (because in a club, she won’t give you the time of day without it) rapport close
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233 But in socially proofed scenes -> that means anything where just by virtue of being there you’re pre-cool, its: • rapport • intrigue (through rapport, she becomes intrigued with you via commality, and Swingcat is standing over my shoulder right now blabbing this to me as I type this, and he lives here :)... ) • • •
attraction (via ignoring her with pushaways) qualify close
Push her away, then go to her friend, then push her friend away, then go back.. etc etc. Do alot of backturns and all that good shit.. Moving in like you’ll kiss her, and pushing her off. You guys can see that the difference here is that you don’t want to come in ball busting, because you already have value PRIOR to approaching. At the club tonight I chatted some 9s or 10s (semantics blah blah, they’re model calibre) and they’d be all cool with me even if I was just like “hi”. Not going to happen in most scenes, but because the fact I could get into a club like this, they ASSUME that I must be somebody, and they’re willing to give me a chance. It’s like in a ‘normal’ club, if I’d socially proofed the entire place, and I’d opened the hot sets, in these clubs you have IMPLICIT social proof, so its not as necessary in some respects (of course social proof is always good, so whatever) Anyway, I’m not claiming expertise, but that seems to be the way that the scene works here.
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TURNING AROUND A SET Sometimes I find myself in a position where the girls are pissed off in the set. It’s usually either because I accidentally took something too far, or more often because the girls won’t let me into the set, so I’ll say something to piss them off, so that I can start drama and get into the set down the line. I was just thinking to post about this, because I had a great turn around last night while I was out. It was a great night, btw. I picked up a Playboy magazine model in front of her boyfriend. She chased me for my # after an hour set. Then we pulled another set of hotties home that we took from two big black dudes. A magazine reporter watched the whole thing go down even back to the house, so I guess the report will be in the Rolling Stone at some point. The funny thing was though, I felt like the turnaround I ran earlier in the night was more interesting than any of this. It was just really well executed, and got me out of a nasty situation. The other stuff is cool but its stuff I’ve had down for a while. This is something I’ve more been working on. My friend PlayboyLA and I were in a 2girl/1guy three set, and PlayboyLA was running the CsvsUs routine. He negged the girl on having a U-shaped jaw, and she freaked out. She claimed to workout at the same gym as Christina Aguilera (I’m in LA right now), and apparently she hates her with a passion. She freaks out, and yells “Fuck off. Leave now. Turn around and get out of here. Fuck off.” He laughs it off, and again, she says “Fuck off. Go.” So this is obviously not a great situation. But it can be turned around, and where there’s problem there’s opportunity. In this case, they get more emotional, so when you turn it around, the drama you caused will just heat things up. Here’s how I did it: First, PlayboyLA and I just look at eachother and start laughing. Like we’re congruent with it. We think its funny. Then I turn to her and say “Man, if I wasn’t going right now, I’d adopt you as my new little sister. You could definetely roll with me in New York. You are totally New York. You could be my bodyguard. It would be like you know those boxer puppets from the eighties, where you press the two little triggers and they punch backwards like this (I do it). You’d be like that, but with your foot, like kicking guys in the nuts, like this (I make funny kick moves). There’d be a path of destruction, like with guys all hunched over that you fucked up. You know what though? You and I would not get along. You know why? We’re too similar. You wouldn’t take my shit, and I wouldn’t take your shit.” Then she starts laughing, but she’s still kind of pissed. She’s cracking though. Immediately, I follow with “You know, I’m so sorry. We’re total dicks sometimes. People think we’re dicks sometimes, because we’re always fucking around. We like you guys. Sorry for being dicks.” I say this sincere, but from a position of authority. Like my vocal tonality isn’t seeking approval in any way. Then I follow it up with a field tested funny story (in this case, the bad ass kids story).
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TURNAROUND STRUCTURE: Don’t acknowledge that she’s even pissed. Don’t show any facial expressions of reaction to her bullshit. Laugh it off, but in a way where you’re not laughing to cover up discomfort. Like you think she’s almost joking or teasing. This is important, because if she thinks you realized she was serious, it’s natural psychology to be consistent to it and not let it go. Interpret it like she just qualified herself to you, in the way that she showed that she can stick up for herself. Do this in a funny way, using funny mini-cold-reads or future adventures projections. Give a brief sincere apology from a position of authority. Follow up immediately with something funny or intriguing to distract her. “Change her mood not her mind.”
I also really like Style’s line about “I grew up with sisters, and teasing was a form of affection”. Also useful here. Another concept I think is important is that when you heat up the situation, people will crave rapport. Like the way I befriend AMOGs is to turn up the heat on them, but then say “Dude, I’m joking around man. I’m not fucking with you. What’s up man?” The AMOGs immediately befriend me, because they felt the emotional/physiological heat of the interaction, and they want relief of discomfort. So the same goes with the girls. I don’t react or acknowledge the girls’ pissy behaviour, and then I heat it up a bit, and then I apologize.
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HOW TO PREDICT FLAKES Some of my PUA buddies from my IM have seen this. There’s some ADDITIONS at the bottom, so scroll down if you’re interested - I have “A-D-D-I-T-I-O-N-S” labelled where the new stuff starts. Warning: This post is kinda long and dense and boring, and if I saw it, I’d probably never read it.. :)
Kept saying that I’d write something on flakes. Haven’t had time to really cash out how I do it at length, but this is my basic viewpoint on flaking. I have a direct formula for avoiding flakes, which would take a LONG time to post (will at some point), but basically, it revolves around a very basic concept (which btw, was fully validated having seen Mystery in action IRL last weekend) I’m not exactly sure how to explain this over the internet, but I’ll try my best anyway. Basically, as we all know, girls operate on emotions/feelings/PMS/etc. :) So say that you pull off a really sweet sarge. It’s just the shit.. you kiss the girl.. all that.. whatever. You call her up, and you can’t figure why she flakes on you. Well the conclusion I finally came to was that the HIGH quality of the sarge is what fucked you up. She’s so EXCITED to meet you, that the andreneline she gets from it just scares her and makes her not want to. It’s just like these guys trying to get girls from the internet to meet them. The LONGER they wait to meet, the more the girl LIKES them as a person, but the more she FLAKES on meeting him, since the “will this guy be as great as he seems... what if it isn’t the same” nervousness makes her aprehensive, and she flakes. For GUYS, we don’t mind pushing through the awkwardness, because we want SEX ASAP... also, most of us have done all sorts of scary things in our lifetimes, and its no big deal. But chicks, they seem to get so excited and bent out of shape over it, they just flake. Like Mystery last weekend. Occassionally, he’d sarge chicks, they’d LOVE him (like NOTHING I’ve ever seen), and he’d try to #close them, and they’d freak out. But YET, they’d still follow him around like he’s GOD even after they said ‘no’. They’d be all confused, and start (LITERALLY) C-R-Y-I-N-G when he’d try to close them. They’d say shit like “I’m so freaked out.. the room is spinning.. I don’t know what to do..” That’s because his approach is based around landing ACTRESSES/MODELS/STRIPPERS as you all know. So THEY can take it, but regular hotties (hair dressers, waitresses, etc, all fuckworthy, but don’t have that status) get confused. “I like him so much... why am I scared to give him my # ?! I don’t know what to do!”..... seriously, you’d have to SEE it to BELIEVE it.. It’s just THAT fucked up. It bends reality man. They follow him around and don’t want to leave.. they take any shit he throws at them... but they start crying when they think he might like them, because they just can’t believe it.
Anyway, what’s my solution to all this? Well, for me, I found that if the sarge FELT (BOTH to me and her) very natural, then it would never flake. So if the sexual tension was high (maybe we even get it on a bit), and it was an AMAZING sarge, she’d flake later. But if it was a SOLID/DECENT sarge, but still felt VERY natural to meet again (no nervousness), then she’d want to meet for sure. So the key was that if I didn’t have the time to f_close her same day, I’d try to gear down the sarge a bit, to seem less Mystery-like (ie: I wouldn’t seem like an IMMORTAL GOD). Then I’d crank it up at the meet, when I DO have time to f_close. If I couldn’t manage that, then I knew I had to f_close it same day, or suffer the flake. Also, in the case of flakes, I took to just saying “It’s fine.... I thought about it, and I’m not looking for that kind of thing right now.. look, let’s just spend some time together at the mall later today, and we’ll just chill and hangout.. I’m seeing other people right now anyway” (playing it off like you have a “friendship connection” and shit like that). That tends to rewind them back to the more neutral and less flakey mindset, and then once they watch you sarge 15 HB8+ chicks at the mall, and start to feel more AT EASE around you (knowing you longer, and also seeing that you’re not LJBF material since they view you sexually watching you hookup other women) and then they’ll BEG you to be let back into the golden gates. IOW, use her for BAIT as a PIVOT, until you’ve spent enough time together to feel more comfortable. This is DIFFERENT from being a typical LJBF, since it doesn’t have the same “spineless loser who tries to be my friend to veil his desires” type connotations that LJBF is normally associated with. She still views you as alpha, and sexual, if you play your cards right. Then, you exploit the “we’re friends so we can hang out in my bedroom” to pattern her and close the deal at a later point. Now Mystery rightly pointed out to me that this is BACKWARDS, since you should have established social proof FIRST. But I just learned group theory last weekend (had NO group skills prior), so I wasn’t aware of it. Anyway, it could still work regardless of the circumstances, assuming you’re trying to damage control the situation (it would have to be for a chick that’s worth it obviously). Anyway, I’m really not sure how well I explained that, but I hope its helpful. You think I’m on point with this or no?
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236 A-D-D-I-T-I-O-N-S: There’s another PROBLEM that alot of guys here have. Basically, I’ve noticed a TREND on the board. What often happens, is that someone will go up on some chick, flirt it up with her for 20 minutes or so, and wonder, WHY DID THE CHICK FLAKE at the phonecall? Well its like this: People FLIRT all the time, but unless you have DEEP RAPPORT along with attraction, there’s little chance that the girl will want to continue it beyond that interaction. So, IOW, just because she enjoyed flirting for 20 minutes does NOT mean that she necessarily wants to go out. You should eventually develop a FLAKE-DAR for this shit. Basically, there’s a DIFFERENCE between a flirty interaction, where the chick just doesn’t want to say outright NO at your contact info request (since she had some brief fun chatting you), and an interaction where she’s genuinely LOOKING FORWARD to seeing you again. Now of course, its ALWAYS good to play the numbers and get a # in EVERY sarge. Often, the girl NEVER gets approached, and is happy to see you again SOLELY on that account. This happens more than you’d think, so ALWAYS go for the #close if you can’t f_close. (and even if you do f_close, get her number and her NAME so you can fuck her again E_D_D_Y!!!!) Anyway, the way I gauge it, is if -I- don’t feel nervous or in anyway unnatural seeing the girl again (ie: we had a genuine feeling of rapport that didn’t feel forced, ALONG with us potentially wanting to fuck) then there isn’t a flake. Have you ever had a PU where you kinda forced it, and even though you got alot of laughs and IOIs and such, you STILL didn’t really feel that you’d like to necessarily see the person again if it weren’t for the fact that you wanted to FUCK HER. That’s often a case where the chick will FLAKE on you. Have you ever flirted with some old senoir lady, and gone through the WHOLE PU process just as sort of a joke for fun. That’s FLIRTING. People do it ALL THE TIME. But you have to have a GENUINE of kind of feeling that you’d like to see eachother again if you don’t want a flake. What do you think the old granny you’re kidding around with, would do if you suddenly asked for her # right? And that’s ALSO the type of thing (to a much GREATER extremity) that you’re looking to avoid when you come on too SMOOTH or too good, etc. The girl may think (why does he want me? it must be just to fuck, since our type of rapport isn’t the kind where we’d meet up again just to see eachother) Why? Because although she may have wanted to fuck, she doesn’t feel that kind of rapport connection with you to JUSTIFY it to herself, ONCE YOU ARE GONE AND HER STATE IS BROKEN. *****So basically, the way that I feel it works, is that there are TWO common ways that a girl won’t flake: 1) She genuinely wants to see you again, ON TOP of potentially being attracted. (ie: it WASN’T just a flirty interaction, but also a potential connection or just naturally flowing type thing) 2) She’s a “slut” and knows you’ll fuck her, and has no qualms about that. (far LESS COMMON, IME) Primarily, however, its case -#1- that will prevent the BLUR, as MOST chicks aren’t that sexually liberated. (but you have to ADAPT if you sense that they ARE, or else they’ll flake too since they are only interested in a guy who will try to fuck them... and you may do this with an SOI if that’s the case) CONCLUSION: If it’s not the type of interaction that is likely to continue (IOW, the state she’s in likely stick even after you leave), you MUST PUSH FOR THE F_CLOSE RIGHT THEN AND THERE. **********ALSO***** I forgot to include this, but an EXCELLENT way to prevent the suspicious ASD’s from going up (ie: her not thinking that you just want to fuck her), is W_A_I_T until she does something to EARN you asking for her #. SO -> even if you plan to f_close SAME DAY, if she says something that you can tell she thinks is something that will impress you, ACT TOTALLY IMPRESSED. For example, a chick says to me, “I’m up for any dare.. I’ll totally do anything”... I say, “OMG, I LOVE chicks like that.. omg we’d have SO MUCH FUN TOGETHER.. hahahaha... we GOTTA hang out.. gimme your #” (incidentally I dare her to come sit beside me so I can game her, but that’s not related to this). Then you can STILL try to same day f_close, but even if you can’t, there’s more chance that she’ll think that you are interested in more than just sex (though she should still think you want sex, but her for her as well), and it disarms the ASD. Not to mention, people always want to cash in on what they think they earned.
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PHONE GAME I get a phone call from an ex-girlfriend that I'm still close with. We still hook-up, but I value her more as someone who I can talk to now. I think that may change when I stop travelling and I'm around more. For some reason, she's an anomaly who is very self aware of her tendencies. That is, as opposed to most girls I meet, who only offer useless socially conditioned rhetoric, whenever you ask them about male/female interaction. Over the course of the conversation, the topic of dating comes up. I ask, "What does it mean when you meet up with a guy, have a great time, maybe even kiss, but then when he calls you don't go out with him? Like you make up excuses and don't return his calls." She replies, "Well there's this guy, Chris, who I met the other night. I really liked him. I offered him my number. He called me the other night, and asked me to meet up. I told him 'You know what, I think I actually will. Let me call you back.' I really wanted to meet up. For some reason I never did though. The thing is, that I can feel the emotion that I felt when I gave him my number, at the time that we're talking on the phone. But the second we hang up, poof, it’s gone. Also, I actually have scheduling issues. It's not like this is someone who I'm already friends with, who I'd give priority to. This is some new person that I barely know. If he happens to catch me at the right time, I'd go out with him. But I won't take the time or go out of my way to return his calls. I don't call guys." I reply, "So theoretically, you're sufficiently attracted to this guy that under different circumstances you could have wound up sleeping with him. Or even gotten into a five year relationship, for all you know. But just because of ill luck in timing and because he actually believed that you'd call him back, now you'll never see him again. Is this weird to you at all?" She replies, "Nope. It makes perfect sense. I don't care either way, because I have guys available to me at all times so it's my last priority. That guy was cool and I thought he was cute, and maybe I'll see him again later or something. I also just give out my number to be social most of the time. It doesn't mean I have any intentions at all." I reply, "He could use that opportunity to continue the interaction to generate attraction down the line, no?" She replies, "It's happened before. Really I just don't want to meet new guys. I like being social when I'm out. But if I'm attracted to a guy, I'll probably flake on him. I've already slept with enough guys (she's nineteen years old, and has been with five guys), I don't want to sleep with anymore right now. When I was with my two friends hanging out at these guys' house, we made each other promise not to let each other do anything because the guys were cute." I reply, "OK that makes sense. What if he's really good looking? Does that make a difference? Also, do you think that when he calls it’s better for him to chat you for a while, so you can be reminded of why you gave him your number in the first place? Or should he just call and immediately try to make plans? Also, do you think it’s better to call you out on your bullshit in a funny way if you flake?" She answers, "Looks means nothing when it comes to that stuff. I know within seconds if I could or couldn't sleep with a guy. I knew within seconds that we'd have sex, the night that we met." I reply, "Are you serious? I don't think that my looks are on a level that you'd want to sleep with me the second you saw me." She replies, "True. But it’s in your energy. The way you come across. I can't explain it. As long as you're not morbidly disfigured your looks won't be the main thing I judge on. Girls all say they want looks, but they wind up with guys who aren't hot all the time. There's so many guys that I think are so hot, and I sit there waiting for them to talk and I'm all excited, and they're like "hi" with some stupid line, and they sound retarded and act weird. It's such a letdown, and most hot guys are like that." I reply, "Do you think the 25 point list I showed you has to do with that kind of stuff?" She replies, "Yes, definitely. Also stuff that you don't have in there, like just your voice and facial expressions." I reply, "OK, what about the other stuff with calling girls out on bratty behaviour? Like confronting her for flaking?" She replies, "Well if a guy tries to argue with me, I'll just hang up on him. He would have to do it in a totally funny way that doesn't make me upset or annoyed." I reply, "Last night, I call up this flaky girl, and say 'You're so annoying to get a hold of! It's so cute though, you're so confused and disorganized. It's like you're my bratty little sister. I don't even think I'm attracted to you anymore, I just want to take care of you and help you get organized like a big brother.'... Then she started giggling and said 'No no no.. I'll meet up with you, don't think of me like that!'.. Do you think that was a good approach?" She replies, "Yeah definitely. That was funny and if you did that to me, I'd be like "Oh yeah, well maybe I WILL meet up with you then!" I reply, "OK awesome. So do you think it’s good to talk for like 15 minutes to remind her of what she gave you her number in the first place, and then go for a meet?" She replies, "Probably longer than that actually. I'm not sure. For you maybe less time because you do this stuff. But most guys have no chance unless they're lucky because I'm either bored or looking for something at that point in time. I guess their best bet is to try to talk to me as much as possible, so I become friends with them." -----
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238 A few thoughts on this. First, guys will attribute flaking to a lack of attraction. I disagree with this line of thinking. Girls go into state, and forget about it down the line. In fact, most of what occurs while a girl’s buying temperature is escalated will be forgotten by the girl. They become disassociative and cognitive dissonance kicks in. Have you ever noticed that whatever drama happens the night you meet a girl will be forgotten if you wind up dating? It's because nothing that happens while she's in state counts to her. That's also why we don't bother worrying about whether or not a girl has a boyfriend. She becomes disassociative when she's attracted, so it’s not relevant to the interaction. That being the case, there are a few tendencies that guys in the scene have, that I think are wrong-headed: 1- Calling a girl on her bullshit for flaking in a way that isn't cute or fun, or in a way that sounds angry or like you actually care. In my experience, the only girls who respond to that are the types who respond to this sort of behaviour in general, which is a certain type of girl that is not the majority. 2- Putting the girl in a position where she has to call you back or its over. 3- Refusing to follow up with girls who don't make it easy to meet up with them again by, and thinking that you're somehow 'NEXTing' them. 4- Thinking that all value is strictly conveyed in person, and that it is a bad idea to talk for a long time on the phone because it makes you look needy. Not that you *need* to call long. But rather, call as long as you feel like. Calibrate so as to hang up before she gets bored, but enjoy the interaction as long as you want. It's just that much more comfort building, and is only taking you that much closer to the endzone. 5- Giving up if the girl stands you up, because you think she isn't attracted. For me, there are a few things that I'll do when it comes to the phone. First, if a girl flakes me, I'll tease her on it in a funny way. I never get angry or look genuinely upset about it. I never focus on reasoning with them logically. I also don't give up if a girl doesn't call back. At the same time, if they say they'll call back I'll say I don't get upset like I know they won't. I'll just say "OK cool." and give them the chance. But then if they don't call back when they said they would, I'll call back a bit later and just re-initiate the conversation as if I don't even remember that they didn't follow up. Now when it comes to the idea that "if a girl disrespects me I'll NEXT her", that isn't my frame at all. To me, you can't NEXT a girl who you haven't slept with. In my view, that's just her NEXT'ing you. It's only a girl that I'm already with that I'll do this to if she annoys me or crosses my boundaries. For a girl I haven't slept with yet though, I have a certain beliefs. She owes me nothing. It's all a game. No relationship or connection exists between us until we've been together physically, because she reserves the right to walk away at any point. I have no emotional ties to the interaction, and I have no ego about it. I just do what I think will work. I also believe that there is a fundamental problem with many of the social ideas about how often and when to call. For example, there exists an idea in society that waiting to call will create scarcity and value, as well as increase anticipation. To me this is very wrong thinking. Notice that it stems from the fact that 99% of pickups in society are SOCIAL CIRCLE pickups. So for that kind of phone number, you'd have probably had the tension building for weeks or months before the number was exchanged. Of course waiting is better – it’s been building for months. But for girls you met on a cold approach, that is not the case. I know what world the girls live in. They live in the same world that I do. The world where you meet tons of girls (in their case its guys), and tons of them like you and tons of them validate you. When I get home from a club, I literally cannot remember the names or faces of girls I met. To be more accurate, I literally barely remember the names or faces of the last three girls I had sex with. I just got off the phone with a girl that I was with less than twelve hours ago, and PlayboyLA and I had to think for five minutes about what her name was before I returned her call. And I LIKED that girl. I remember she was a hot brunette around my height, and seemed cool. But that's about it. For girls, it’s the same. They can barely remember anyone they meet, because they meet so many people. To make matters even worse, they become disassociative while they're in the club. Many of them have even had had a few drinks, but you couldn't tell. Of course, you can do daytime pickup. But regardless, the girls still have access to many other good looking alpha guys the second they want it. Most guys don't even realize that it is very rare that an attractive girl is not getting laid by one or more other guys. That's even when they're single. They're still sleeping with their ex-boyfriends, or some player on the side. It's not like a hot girl is NOT getting laid, anymore than you wouldn't be if you had the instant option. So when you're calling, they are about as motivated to meet up with you as you would be to drive across town to a good Italian restaurant, when you're eating a good bowl of Chinese right in front of you. Sure, the Italian would be great. But you have an unlimited Chinese buffet sitting right here. Why would you be bothered? The girls don't get that needy feeling that the guys get. They are always validated, because they've been in the club at least twice a week, getting validated by all the guys complimenting them and buying them drinks. When it comes to how I handle the phone, I don't worry that if I call back multiple times it will make me look bad. Because I have high social value, and don't subcommunicate any neediness, I can call as much as I want. In fact, I'll call two or three times in a row if she's not picking up, back to back. I'll call back whenever I feel like it, because it’s obvious that I'm amusing myself and that I
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239 don't really care. I could take it or leave it, and I'm just having fun. I'll call and shoot the shit, and then hassle her until she meets up. Whatever. I also combat excuses by adding in phone freezeouts, and following them with playful teasing and some semi-logical stuff like "Hey, come chill for a few minutes. If you're bored, take off and we'll catch up later." My bro Mystery (www.mysterymethod.com) also has a field tested routine about how its weird to barrel through the first awkward half hour of meeting someone new, but everyone you know you had to go through it with, so let's just barrel through it. My goal is to have the girl on the phone ASAP. I don't want them to have any time to forget that we have plans to meet up. I'll call girls' cellphones even as I'm leaving the club and going for afterbar food. I'll have pulled a girl from the club to an afterhours food place, and run off to the bathroom to call all my numbers, while my wing occupies our set (I have a habit of pulling a two set with my wing for same night, and take numbers from the choice girls in larger sets). Whether I reach them or not, I'll call them again as soon as I wake up the next afternoon, and get the ball rolling. I'm not thinking to make them wonder if I'll call or not, because I know they could care less. Not because they aren't attracted. Rather, because there are many attractive prospects on their plates, and regardless of my game, I'm one of many. The difference between me and them though, is that I'll get her and they won't, because I'll play it properly. If a girl stands me up, I'll call her and make fun of her for it. I'll hassle her to meet up. I'll say I'm still there and she had better get her ass down there, because she's my little sister and if she doesn't get down here I don't know what trouble she'll get into if she doesn't have me there to supervise her. I don't care either if she wants her friends to come or not. All of this means nothing to me. I just want to see her again, because I'll get her no matter what she throws at me. The difference between a day1 and a day2 is that she's there to see *me*. So she has no excuse not to come back somewhere private if we're spending time together. And from there I can escalate. So let's summarize. In my experience, I've found it best to get away from the idea that you're trying to make the girl fall in love with you before you hook up with her. Focus on just showing you're a cool guy who she has the potential to be attracted to, and then make it your only priority to see her again. Don't worry about your value over the phone. You can't wreck a sarge from over a phoneline. That makes no sense. If you're the kind of guy who she's attracted to, then just act congruent to that over the phone. Call her and get her accustomed and accepting that you're in her life now. Make plans, and if she is flaky don't worry about it, and be playfully persistent by chatting her more, not by talking non-stop about the flaking. Meet, have fun, connect, isolate.
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HOW TO GET 7’S AND 8’S CONSISTENTLY Tell them that they’re hot.... literally. My biggest problem with these girls flaking on me is that if they’re not 9s or 10s, they feel underqualified. So I thought I’d think outside the box and try qualifying them to me on their looks. As anyone in the field knows, most girls are cool enough people, but like most guys just aren’t good at CONVEYING it on the spot in a pressure social situation (like meeting a cool new guy). So they sit there, and have very little to say other than dumb situational shit (like most guy AFCs). So you wind up trying to pull them or take a #, and it seems totally incongruent, because they can’t figure out why this money attractive guy wants them, when they know he could get a 9 or 10. They’ve done nothing but sit there and laugh at your jokes, and they’re too stumped on what to say that would warrant you wanting to see them again. So what I’ve started doing (and this has worked so far), is just saying “wow, you are fucking cute.. I’m really attracted to your whole look (I may give a specific, and it may be more about their stereotype than a specific thing - tonight I say she had a “cool,together,tough girl thing going”), and I never meet girls like that..” On top of it, the pre-supposition should be there that you’re having a good time together, so its not completely ridiculous. What I do is push them away bigtime and run all my C&F and negs, but once they’ve shown alot of interest in me, I just tell them that I’m genuinely attracted to them, and then I run the elastic band snapback effect DRUNK-#CLOSE on them (even when they aren’t drunk), so they’ll convince me to call them. It works awesome so far, but we’ll see if its just an NYC thing (where I’m visiting right now). After all, they ARE still 7s or 8s, so its conceivable that you’d find them attractive. They’ve chased you, because you’ve shown zero interest. And a big one is that I C&F/neg the shit out of them, and then say “Heh, I’m kidding.. It’s just that I have to test you.. I think you’re really cute, and I have to see if you can take it.” So actually, I guess I’m qualifying them based on abilities to pass my tests also. Then I go for a bit of commonalities, and boom, its all done. This may likely be only something useful for guys who have very strong game already. I recommend it for guys who can run sets well, already. Make sure it comes across as genuine, and that you’re not a horny/needy guy, but rather just a dude who enjoyed her company, finds her attractive, and would like to hang with her again.
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PROCESS: Regular indirect approach, tease/neg/activedisinterest to get her chasing you Tell her that you were just testing her to see if she can take it, because she’s cute. Qualify her to you on her looks. Use the DRUNK#CLOSE to still show willingness to walk away, and to lead her to make the #close for you, so she’s still chasing and convincing you.
Give it a shot (like actually field test), and report back results. I’d love to hear back from guys who it both did and did not work for, since I’ve only started doing this, this week. I’ve been laid twice out of it (by also using the escalating tests thing with 1)bestfriends,2)trust,3)tension Tests all stacked in a row, and then using this), and also made out with probably 20 girls and gotten around 20 phone #s which many I’ve followed up on and have day2s planned.
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UG THEORY This may come off as satirical, which perhaps it partially is. But OTOH is IS ACTUALLY true. Alright, I'm absolutely positive that I've now cracked the code for enabling PUAs to get UGs (any girl under HB8) attracted to them. This will be useful either for guys who cannot find a non-substandard chick to get with in their vicinity but are addicted to sex, or for guys who are trying to get social proof with UGs prior to engaging WORTHY TARGETS (be it in bars, or for whatever reason, this is actually an EXCELLENT way to get social proof, before you SWITCH GEARS on your target) Or maybe guys who think its funny to attract UGs. One of the most common phenomenon that experienced PUAs have noticed is that they UGs hate them. David DeAngelo jokes about how he can't initiate chats with UGs without getting shot down, and most of the best PUAs I've met can't seem to find a way to chat with UGs. My thoughts on this, is that its because "likes" are typically attracted to "likes". Before ASF, I had no probs at all meeting and dating HB7s, but since I've studied to become a PUA they seem to really hate me. I seem to set off their LSE alarm. The SOLUTION, is to realize that if you are a PUA, chances are that you CONVEY VALUE to a HB7 just by gracing her with your presence! :).... Snobby, yep. But go test it and YOU'LL SEE. So as far as "likes" go, just look at many of the PUAs on our board: PRE-ASF: their attractiveness to a girl = 5-7 POST-ASF: their attractiveness to a girl = 8 -10 Now they've become the MALE EQUIVALENT of a HB8-10. IOW, they emit the AURA of a high quality guy. THE TECHNIQUE: When you roll up on an UG, instead of using any kind of fascinatingconvo/openers/techniques/patterns/games/C&F/ANYTHING, just say things such as: -"it is sure busy in this place" -"what is there that is interesting to do around here" -"I work as an accountant. It is pretty cool." -"it is so hot out lately. I like this weather." -"wow, it sure is late. I don't normally stay out this late" -"where do you work?" -"my cat is really cute. I miss my cat." This is to be said with MONOTONE INFLUXTION. Like you are a SERIOUS LOSER. The effect is that your PUA vibe will gel with your simulated loserness, and turn you back into your former HB7 equivalent self, therefore able to interact and engage with low calibre women once again!! I'VE CRACKED IT!! YES!!! I actually field tested this easily over 30 times now, and I DEMONSTRATED it to Twentysix and No9 at the club last night. I had the whole group of UGs crowded around me! I literally did it like I was HALF ASLEEP, and Twentysix and No9 were sitting around me laughing their heads off practically crying.. Meanwhile the UGs were absolutely enthralled. Twentysix field tested it right in the middle of a set, he's going along with his STRONG GAME, and right in the middle he goes "it-issure-busy-in-here-tonight" Chicks categories 1) Party chick who just wants a PURE cocky muthafucka, doesn't care about overqualification whatsoever.. just likes being degraded, so she can get wet from the higher value that you convey, and fucks you. PURE C&F/HIGHER VALUE 2) NEW CATEGORY: Party chicks who DO care to some extent when you overqualify yourself, but will LOSE INTEREST when you GO RAPPORT. So because rapport will lose their interest, but UG THEORY WILL NOT (since UG THEORY is not rapport, its different), we go: C&F/HIGHER VALUE, UG THEORY 3) "Normal chicks" who want higher value, but won't sleep with you without rapport. C&F/HIGHER VALUE, RAPPORT 4) Ugly chicks, who are intimidated by all higher value. UG THEORY, MAYBE RAPPORT BUT WHO THE FUCK WANTS TO FIND OUT SINCE THE ONLY REASON WE'RE USING UG-THEORY IS TO PAWN THEM FOR SOCIAL- PROOF.
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PICKING UP HIRED HOTTIES Here’s how I pickup staff. This is how I do it, maybe people have other ways. This is massively field tested, and I’ve dated alot of staffers in the past year. Mystery uses extremely similar stuff to this, which he also figured out himself. His staff game is probably second to none. The strip club stuff I learned from him, and haven’t successfully done yet myself within the strip club (its a tough skillset to come by, but I know I can do it with practise if I’m inclined). In my view, the strongest skillset is being able to pickup the staff. • • • • • • •
strippers waitresses hostesses shooter girls bartenders clothing store girls club talent (girls hired to look good in posh NYC/LA clubs)
Everyone here able to think of a few of these girls that they’d have liked to get with? They’re usually all HB9+ minimum, if the place has any class. These girls are hired for LOOKS.
2) 3)
PROBLEMS: massive time constraints - they’re on the job, no time to talk and gain rapport (you may get them into state, but it won’t be enough) they get hit on NON STOP they try to put you into THEIR frame, by SHIELDING themselves from men’s advances by using the “customer” frame
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SOLUTIONS: The most obvious is to arrive at the bar EARLY so that they will have more time to talk. Still, barring that, we have solutions.
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Convey value OBLIQUELY. That means that you must garner massive social proof in front of the hottie. Be the man of the room - sarge and get massive IOIs from the hottest chicks. Do this in front of the hired chick. This begs the question, “if you have other hotties, why do you care about the hired chick?.. Answer: Because the bar tenders, shooter girls, strippers, etc, are SICK FUCKING HOT! :) Anyway, don’t even THINK of approaching the hired chick until you have social proof that is visible, because you’re working under massive time constraint. Social proof is one of the FEW ways we have to convey value WHILE the girl is working, without directly using up the 5-10 minutes that we might have with her, which are really needed more for rapid fire rapport (since attraction can be established obliquely through the social proof) **EXCEPTION: In strip clubs, social proof with other strippers doesn’t count, because they just assume you’re a MARK. Get social proof with the DJ and the manager - or LARGE groups of other strippers where they’re visibly attracted BEYOND the massive amounts of FAKE IOIs that they’re hired to shoot out. Back on topic - Then, procedure is to run a fast and short attraction game, followed by RAPID FIRE ANTI-FLAKE tactics. I have a ton of these in my notes on my labtop (spastic ramblings part II is now written, and it is as fucked up as the first one.. the anti-flake material is buried within.. flaking is now solved, if anyone gets flakes it their CHOICE but its not something that has to happen unless we LET it, because it is now SoLVED) I don’t have time to post on this now, but the key is in the “SEDUCE IN THE RIGHT VENUE” frame. Use false-disqualifiers and spontaneous reframes “just having fun blah blah” to get her to a venue where you can game her PROPERLY. 2)
Yes, they get hit on non stop. But we’re PUAs. They’ve never even SEEN a PUA before on our level. Exploit the social proof PRIOR to approaching her, and she’ll hit on YOU to some extent. Use push/pull CAT THEORY type stuff as Mystery says. So don’t worry too much about that, but the important thing is.........
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STAY OUT OF HER FRAME. They’ll throw up all this shit at you about client relationship blah blah.. It’s all bullshit, they dream about getting picked up by one of the hot guys, every night they go out. When she tries to SOLICIT your ass for something (drink, lapdance, shooter, clothes, etc), don’t even acknowledge the question ->
CUT HER OFF......
CUT HER OFF..
CUT HER THE FUCK OFF.... :) SHOOTER GIRL: Would you like a drink? PUA: ha.. hey do girls think that David Bowie is hot?
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243 SHOOTER GIRL: Ummm yeah.. so would you like a drink.. PUA: (smirk, turn head for 2 seconds, look back): Get this, yesterday my little sister brings home this poster of David Bowie.. blah blah blah (game as you’d game a NORMAL CHICK) The key is to cut her off on her material, and start bringing her into YOUR reality (material, whatever). Don’t even ACKNOWLEDGE her frame with a response to it. PRETEND LIKE YOU DIDN’T HEAR IT, OR THAT YOU DID BUT YOU THINK ITS CUTE AND NOT WORTH RESPONDING TO (like you would to a 4 year old) Do you think situational stuff will work here? How about patterns? hahaha, NOPE, not usually. You’ve got to HOOK her out of the “my boss will get mad” mentality, so that she’s so wanting to talk to you that she says “well I’ll give him a second”, which leads to her forgetting where she’s at. Why? Because when you get a girl massively attracted she loses her ability to think straight, and will fuckup her work in order to give you the 5-10 minutes that you need in order to get a solid bridge to see her again (after work, or the next day). PUSH THEM AWAY: STRIPPER: wow.. that’s so cool about your little sister.. do you want a lap dance now? PUA: hah.. umm, hey you’d better run along and go make some money for your boss so he doesn’t get mad.. (plus the false disqualifier makes her more aroused as an added bonus) STRIPPER: he’s not my boss.. I work for myself, I’m not going anywhere.. SHOOTERGIRL: wow.. yeah you’re so right.. girls are definetely sexual predators.. hey so do you want a shooter? PUA: (turns head, goes back into his set/friends, 15-20 seconds pass, turns back to see her still sitting there little a little puppydog wanting a milkbone treat).. OMG, you’re still there? Oh don’t worry! You’ll sell your little drinks! OMG you’re so cute! Don’t worry keep trying, I know you’ll do it.. (hug her or pat her on the head and be really nice to her... don’t say this SARCASTIC, but say it like she’s your LITTLE SISTER and she’s CUTE.. be CAREFUL not to be CONDESCENDING too much.. use the David D “she my bratty little sister.. annoying, but I love her anyway so so much” type attitude.. hell, even SAY that line directly to her if you want) Point here is, cut them off. Don’t even ACKNOWLEDGE their frames. If they ask you for a lapdance or to buy a drink or shooter or clothes, DO-NOT-EVEN-ANSWER. DISENGAGE THEIR FRAME. This is counter-intuitive because it seems rude and whatnot. Girls are not guys. They don’t think in these frames. Just stick on your material, nothing situational whatsoever. Run game, suck them in, run quick-fire anti-flake tactics, get a solid bridge. Seduce in the right isolated venue, and reep the rewards. If you can learn this skillset, you have the (f)ind issue for HB9.5+ girls dealt with.
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DON’T BE THE CHEESY GUY I was just catching up on the latest posts, and was noticing something that I really think is a common mistake for guys coming to the community. That is, being the cheesy guy trying to get the girl turned on. In saying that, I’m not referring to being sexual or projecting a reality that girls are drawn into. Rather, I’m referring to tactics that guys may have the impression are getting the girl revved up, when in really its just making them look childish. Like something that I think a lot of guys don’t get is that girls are chatting you, and yes its important to get them into you - but its also equally important not to do anything stupid to disqualify yourself. It’s like when you’re talking to a girl, and she’ll be totally into you, but the second you talk about your house or car she instantly loses interest. Or you’ll tell her about how you beat somebody up, and she loses interest. Anything like that is visibly showing that you are trying to change her opinion of you in an artificial way. The same goes for unwitty innuendo or anything that cleverly gets her to do things she’s not choosing to do on her own. There’s a bit of a data fallacy though with pickup, because guys may do something and think it helped them, but really it only worked because of other reasons. For example, guys will beat eachother up in front of girls, and their girls will become more attracted. They’ll think “Aha! She likes me because I’m so tough for kicking that guys’ ass!” Really though, they’re not realizing that it was actually that their girlfriend likes insecure guys, and that’s what turned her on. Like for the same reasons you can get blown out of sets with 7s or with any girl who isn’t self confident, by using too much C&F or overgaming, you can attract her by acting insecure. Like these guys don’t even realize that the girls they got by fighting were attracted them because they lowered their own value, and it made the girl feel qualified. The same goes for guys who use excessive gropy kino, or who keep plowing the girls with tacky innuendo or with tricks to escalate. If you look, its the insecure girls who like this stuff, because the guys are subcommunicating that they couldn’t get the top girls, so these girls feel qualified to be with them. And that’s great - except when you’re trying to get with the top girls. Like I’ll see these guys rolling up on girls, acting all gropy and in their face, and running all these cheesy lines. And the girl is sort of tense, but she’s liking it because she feels qualified for the guy. So she sits there letting it go down, and you think to yourself “How is that working?” It’s not that this is solid game. It’s that the girls are just underqualified and are actually drawn to behaviour that lowers the guys’ value. Anyway, I guess what I’m saying is that guys will come into the scene and read up on T/T, and go out there and hit the field. And that’s awesome. But really, what gets girls isn’t visibly doing things to game her. That just disqualifies you. What gets girls is when you just roll in, and have an awesome convo, get her totally into you, and structure it from there either to instant date or see eachother when you have time. Waiting for the IOIs and escalating when the window opens. The second that the girl detects that what you’re doing is intended to hook up with her, you loose value instantly and she loses attraction. That isn’t the case with lesser girls. Many girls will find it a turn on because its a subcommunicative indicator that she is qualified for you. But for most guys, I think the thing that they could benefit from studying most is having a strong frame, and going in there looking like you’re not trying to alter her perception of you in any visible way, and that you’re just a chill guy having a good time talking to her. So long as you convey the right stuff during the convo, you’ll be fine. Many girls enjoy sex as much if not more than guys. So if you come across right, and don’t do anything to blow yourself out, you stand a great chance. btw, I don’t think this contradicts any known methods in the scene, be it DYD, MM, GWM, or SS. It’s applicable regardless or T/T. It’s just a general viewpoint to how you come across. It’s more about the vibe that you project. Anyway, that’s my 2c on some of the posts I’ve seen. I thinkits awesome that guys are going out and thinking about this stuff. And the same guys posting the cheesy stuff will still get results eventually, because they’re out in the field. So that’s fine. I’m just hoping to help them to progress a little faster, and of course to vent a bit.. :)
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DIFFERENT METHODS TO LOOK AT Tyler (realsocialdynamics.com): Being in the scene for a while now, I sometimes find myself a bit bored reading the same stuff about controlling your state and being confident and tactics to run game. I’d love to have some more high level discussions, with guys who are really pulling the top girls. I’ll get the ball rolling with some rough material I threw together on mASF, and next week I’ll post some strong material on ADVANCED PickUpArtist sticking points, that top guys will find useful (where as the newer guys really need to focus on the basics). I’d really encourage the other top PUAs to post what they do to pull the top girls, to keep the scene fresh, and to motivate the top guys to stay around and participate. Of course newer guys will be annoyed that it’s not useful for them. But so what? Advanced PUAs are people too! : ) Cliff’s Comment: I think one of the biggest problems the community has is that once guys get good at this, they often don’t have that much interest in the community and writing about what they are doing - they just go out and do it. Like, can you imagine Hugh Hefner posting a FR? I can’t say if the following analogy will apply (although TD is in a good position to confirm this), but I remember when I was younger and I took martial arts. The guys who spent extra time hanging around the school were eventually given the honour of instructing the new students. The thing that I noticed was that, here were these guys who were in my class and they were improving by leaps and bounds and it was mostly because of the teaching they were doing. They skyrocketed past myself and the others who were taking the same class time and pretty much practicing the same amount because they were able to see other’s mistakes and learn by teaching. So there can be major fringe benefits to teaching, and I expect this will apply to the PUA arts and sciences as well. Tyler continues: So, here are some rough notes I threw together for mASF. Feedback always appreciated. There are different ways to run sets. The classic MM way is to use intrigue based routines, like talking about relationships and the unknown, to captivate a set. By doing so, you can use active ignorance on the sets. Notice that the Mystery archive contains not so much C&F-teases, but rather, they contain SELF ESTEEM NEGS. Let’s look at the different types: A C&F NEG is like “You’re like my little sister” or “You’re like a little powerpuff girl” or “hands off the merchandise” or she’s “a sexual predator” or telling her to support you or to get lost. OTOH, a SELF ESTEEM NEG is like “That’s a nice dress. That’s really popular these days” or “A model? What, a hand model?” or “You have something on your face/teeth/hair.. Here” or “Your nose wiggles when you talk” or blowing your nose in front of her (like you don’t care enough to even hide it from her). Notice though, and this is very important, that the first type of C&F neg is actually YOU giving her an indicator of your interest in her. As guys, we’d think the opposite, because calling a hottie a powerpuff girl is showing her that we’re willing to walk away from her, and not seek her approval. Right? Nope. These things are actually sexual subcommunication. Like David DeAngelo says, they are the secret sub language of attraction that girls respond to. If a girl walks up to you and says that your shirt sucks, this is an IOI. We know this. Why? Because if a girl isn’t attracted to you, she won’t even acknowledge you, let alone tease you. Would a girl walk up to a 95 year old man in a wheelchair and tease him? Notice that if a girl does this, you can just tease her back - open, run game, and seduce. Girls open ME with negs and C&F all the time, and if I play along they gladly hook up with me (because they were obviously attracted, to have opened me - so I need only not screw it up). The same goes for girls. They know that when you use this stuff, you’re just using a classic European style game on them. Or maybe they don’t know it’s “classic Euro-style”.. : ) - but they know that it’s not that you really don’t want them, and that you’re being playful. The thing is, that’s FINE. So long as you meet the preconditions of social value, they’ll enjoy you gaming them well, and they’ll become attracted. The classic European style of “natural” game is similar to what I use (my version is just the European version on steroids, combined with other tactics thrown in). It’s flirting. Where you’re saying “get lost”, but really subcommunicating “I’m alpha, look at me sexually, I’m interested”). Well, this is sort of a sweeping generalization. You guys get the point, anyway. So the distinction here is: Classic European C&F natural style game: • • • • • • • • •
you can approach the target, so long as you hold the set’s attention so they don’t LJGD (let’s just go dance) you. if you have the social value (you are dressed cool for the scene, and you seem like a cool enough guy for her to ALLOW you to engage her in this sort of flirting, so she’s willing to take the time to verbally spar/flirt with you), then you can run this sort of game rather than befriending, you blow out and out-alpha AMOG the people around you, to up your status this is a great way to “fool’s mate/ONS” a chick, and it can also lead to more, but it generates attraction so quickly that you can have difficulty with buyer’s remorse, and you also have a harder time shifting to rapport/comfort/connection Classic MM style game: you avoid the target, and hold the target’s peer group with total intrigue they give you social proof because what you’re doing is intriguing, and this makes the target observe that you are socially proofed (you can also merge sets and get social proof prior to opening the desired set) you use self-esteem negs to lower the target’s self-esteem, and crave your attention to re-validate herself you can phase shift into rapport more easily, because the interaction wasn’t “out of control giggly party mode” you befriend the people around you, so they push the girl on you
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you don’t get as many ONS/fool’s mate, although you still get it - the two are just more conducive to their respective outcomes, but that DOES NOT mean that you won’t get both GFs and ONS with BOTH methods, so let’s please not see retarded posts down the line from KJs who think that pickup is this black and white, because it’s not! : )
Now I know that Mystery and Style use a more classic MM style, where as I use a more European natural game style. In fact, because we all hang out, we have started incorporating massive amounts of each other’s styles into our games, and made them stronger. I personally find that the European style game is harder to execute on the hardest targets, because if they’re hard 10s (models, strippers, and such), if you walk up and start going C&F, they’ll just ignore you. They don’t give a fuck. Why? Because even if you’re ten times cooler than the average guys, guess what? There are STILL a lot of very good looking, rich, socially proofed guys, who ALSO have your C&F type stuff down (they do it naturally), who will outgame you. At the same time, how OFTEN do you see a hard HB10? RARE. So I don’t focus on gaming them, although I CAN and know how. Still, it’s nice to know how to do it. Take when I was in Whistler BC, skiing at BlackComb with Papa and Twentysix and Alphamale. This was a month ago. I try to go C&F on this smoking hot HB10 waitress. I’m in my generic ski gear. She giggles a bit, but really I don’t want to mentally masturbate - it wasn’t really going anywhere. Then I sit down, and I think “She’s just not a giggly girl maybe”. haa, WRONG! I just couldn’t accept that Mr. Coolguy PUA that I am, wasn’t coming across good enough for her. The proof? Ten minutes later, the lead singer of the most popular Canadian rap group (Swollen Members, a cool group that will be mainstream in the U.S. probably next year) walks in. He ignores her. Haa! The dude doesn’t give a fuck. I personally know of at least 3 girls who have slept with this guy, that I’ve met while I’m out. This guy gets so much ass that he could care less about yet another HB10 trying to get with him. He just wants his beer and to chill with his friends after a long day of skiing. btw, I got a picture with him, and with Sum 41, and with The Black Eyed Peas recently. I use these in my photo routine now. I looked like a lame fan for asking for pics, but who cares - I wanted to build my photo routine. Anyway, this dude has the social value to play up the active disinterest, and get her chasing him. MAN, this girl was chasing him. Point is, if I would have just gone in there, and taken over all her friends and ignored her, I probably could have done the same (until the rap star rolled in I guess though!). But I went European style game, and I got her to giggle a bit and then lost her. This is what Mystery means when he says “A 10 must choose YOU. You cannot choose a 10.” In truth, alot of 10s are “soft” 10s, and you can game them straight up. But others, you need to play up the active disinterest, and takeover her social group and ignore her and lower her self esteem. KEY POINTS IN CONCLUSION: Most guys on this site have piles of C&F material, but lack in intrigue based material. Having the ability to hold a set WITHOUT relying on getting them all giggly with shocking C&F type stuff is something that most guys on here are lacking, and need to cultivate. I have alot of routines where I talk about fascinating studies that were done, or interesting things that I’ve seen that relate to the girls. I have cool bar bets and sh*t like that, or reflexology pieces, or cool pictures - all of which hold their attention. These things don’t have the girls freaking out giggling, which doesn’t make for as flashy of a pickup. BUT, it can make for a more solid game. Most importantly also, it gets the girl chasing you. One way to run a set is to entertain WITH your flirting. You can hold sets just by busting the whole set. The other way, you hold them with intrigue, and engage only the target girl with sexual subcommunication. Or in the classic MM way, you use active disinterest. She’s thinking “This guy is really cool, and he’s a bit C&F also so he’s alpha, but mostly he’s really cool and he’s not interested in me and my self esteem is down because of the embarrassing things he noticed.” As opposed to a straight up European style game, where you just plow the sh*t out of her buying temperature with piles of C&F, and going for the jugular in terms of ONS, and if she doesn’t bite that same night, you have little or no connection with her and will probably wind up with a flake for the day 2. At the same time, most of my game is a European based game, and I turn on the other stuff at different times. I use BOTH, and use them based on the type of girl and the condition. I’ve seen Mystery try to play solid game on girls that I know he could have ONS’ed, and lost her because she wasn’t down with getting to know someone at this time. At the same time, I’ll often turn great girls that could have been my girlfriends into party chicks that go mental, and then I lose them down the line either after a ONS or on the telephone. We all have our own sticking points to overcome, and everyone playing the game (in real life, not the Internet) has real sticking points and places that they could improve. Anyone who says that they don’t have sticking points is probably not really in the field. Guys might watch PUAs like Mystery or myself, and roll their eyes when we say that we have sticking points. But we do. Because what we consider to be top game not just what looks good to others. It’s what we know is possible OURSELVES. I’d encourage everyone to post about their sticking points (I saw Pheromone doing that recently, and I think people should follow that example), and focusing on filling in the gaps in their game. For guys who lack intrigue based material, I’d encourage you guys to seek it out, test it, and PLEASE post about it so I can steal it for my own sets! : ) That said, I’d like to talk about how straight European style game CAN be used to game on HB10s, as I use it myself. In elite scenes and whatnot. What I’m going to post here is fundamentally deep shit, but not many people here will probably understand it, so it will probably go poorly understood. Pretty much nobody on this board is even into this game. I post this more because future guys who read my archive may take interest in this topic, if they have access to these scenes (or go-getters like myself, who sought out these scenes for the adventure of it). One thing, btw, is that it’s EASIER to sleep with SHBs if you know how, than it is to sleep with 8s. So this game is worth learning.
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247 For the super HBs, you are playing a different game. There are value-prerequisites that you must fulfill prior to even gaming them. Your game literally won’t have an effect on them if you don’t meet these pre-requisites. That means a few things: • • •
having an image, where your clothing and what you say you are will be congruent (and what you say you are had better be fu*king good) actually acting like you’re better than them, in the sense that you don’t even fully engage them.. go to the clubs where the rich f*ckers hang out, and watch what they’re doing (the way they carry themselves, and the specific mannerisms that they have in verbal exchanges) have the kind of social proof where it doesn’t look like you gamed up other girls.. rather, it looks like you KNOW them from the club.
Now when it comes to super HB game, you aren’t even totally trying to pump their buying temperature, like you are with typical hotties. Rather, you’re trying to convey status, combined with active disinterest. You can still use your C&F and all of that, but you use it differently. ***KEY POINT: Typically, its better to go Attract, Comfort/Rapport, Seduce. Why is that so important? In short, the difference is that on a standard set you need to run attract game FIRST, because they won’t even ACKNOWLEDGE you if you haven’t attracted them. Try walking up to a girl and trying for rapport with her, before she’s attracted. She’ll yawn and walk away. “Great, yet another dweeb trying for rapport with me, when EVERYONE wants rapport with me because I’m gorgeous”. OTOH, if you just game her up and don’t try for rapport, she’ll start going for it. Now for elite social scenes (where the 10s are at) if you are IN already (as you are, just by virtue of being allowed access to the high profile venue), then you are able to just lay back, get in and build some intrigue via commonalities in their scene, and THEN shift into C&F / push-pull / attract routines, etc. For example, when you game up a set of standard hotties, you roll up and actively game them up. Like you’re doing the set, and you’re running your game, but it’s apparent that you are RUNNING GAME. That’s fine, so long as you run your game WELL. For SHBs, you roll in there with the mannerisms of a rich arrogant prick. oes that mean lots of negs? Nope. Does that mean lots of C&F? Nope. What it means is that you do things like ignore what she’s saying, and pay attention to other things that distract you. So for example, you neg by literally ignoring what she says, and combining it with WELL TIMED takeaways. Like you pay close attention, and then when she’s really trying to get to know you, you turn around and walk away a bit, so that she follows. his is a massively difficult skillset to acquire, that you can only learned through massive field practice and know-how. You really have to set the bait, so that when you hit a high point and you stop focusing on her, she is in DISBELIEF that you could be disinterested. You’re acting almost idiosyncratic, like Jim Morrison from The Doors or something like that, making her chase. She’ll either act AFC and try to follow you around and get your attention more (funny), or she’ll go back to her friends and try to pretend like she’s cooler than you, in which case you just take all of the friends’ attention so she’s back to square one, and then re-engage her later. Also, they’ll do sh*t like try to #close you, and you literally pretend that you didn’t hear it. This part is really funny, because she’ll try again later, and you say sh*t like “yeah sure” and then keep talking without actually getting your pen out, so that way she has to ask again later. Many SHBs that I game will ask me for my # 5-10 times before I actually give it to them. One realization that you will gain from this, is how lame YOU have looked in the past, when you tried to come up with all these “natural” ways of repeatedly going for the #. It’s so obvious when the girls do it, and it makes you realize how lame you looked in the past when you did it. You’ll actually see them asking for the #, and being a bit embarrassed when they don’t get it, and then dropping it for a bit, and bringing it up later the second they get an opening. F*cking funny to watch, because even though they had the opening, it’s still OBVIOUS that they waited for it, which makes it even more obvious that they want you because they’ve been waiting to pounce on the opening for this long. btw, as a side note, remember that you’ll need a day2 plan that is congruent to your image if you don’t pull same night. Key in this game is that you can get away with walking up without opinion openers. Like you can just walk up and say “Hey”, and literally sit there until they acknowledge you. Like you SIT THERE until they engage you, like it’s EXPECTED. Even if you sit there 20-30 seconds, with a look on your face like “WTF, say something, stupid little girl”. That’s because this is the kind of sh*t that rich f*ckers do. They don’t give a sh*t, because they get girls constantly. I remember being at a party in the Hollywood Hills with TheOne, and I started out my night by running opinion openers. Well, it went alright, but really the thing with that was that the other rich guys around me weren’t running this kind of stuff. Rather, the dudes were sitting around chatting AMONGST THEMSELVES (aka - NOT gaming sets), and when girls would pass they would make glib comments and then the girls would introduce themselves and sh*t like that, because they know that these guys are much higher value than them, DESPITE that they are SHBs. It’s the same at hard to get into clubs. Like you don’t need to game the girls. Value is ASSUMED, because you have access to the venue. Rather, you game it like how you would at a party with mutual friends. If you were at a party with mutual friends, you probably wouldn’t walk up to some chick that your buddy brought, and bust out opinion openers right away. Rather, you’d get to know her with ASSUMED RAPPORT, and then escalate to regular gaming later on. So with that in mind, you go: • •
introduce/rapport (using the attitudes mentioned above) intrigue by finding commonalities so she’s like “oh, this guy could have potential”, and more importantly, by having fascinating things to say about HER SCENE, and then fascinating things in general to get her interest -attract via C&F, active ignorance, negs, takeaways • close See, you can’t walk into these clubs and start “gaming”. It’s ineffective. The mere ACT of doing C&F and push/pull immediately is TRY-HARD, because the girls know what it is, and they know that the rich high status dudes wouldn’t be acting like this typically. ***But once you have ESTABLISHED the value pre-requisites, THEN you can start gaming, and their buying temperature will start getting pumped as would a normal type chick. Notice that your main challenge in this game isn’t learning more routines or better game. Rather, it’s learning how to act adopt the subtle subcommunication and mannerisms of people of high status. They act different. Go find your friends who went to private school, and go to one of their parties. You’ll see the sort of things I’m talking about. Watch, and learn. Drop the LAME parts, and keep the parts that will help you.
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248 Now this of course is a certain type of SHB. OTOH, if you’re doing strippers and such, you have a different kind of game to run. Again, with them, you don’t run typical game. You run “stripper game”. The only guy I’ve ever seen do this with consistent success is Mystery. He has routines that show that he’s “stripper boyfriend” material. The guy actually has hours and hours of routines on this, and he’ll walk right into the strip club and pull girls right out of it. Again, my game is in his range, but because I don’t SPECIALIZE in that type of girl, I can’t pull girls from strip clubs. If I put in the legwork for 2 months, I’d be able to do it also. The same goes for scenes in Miami South Beach, with clubs like SkyBar or Nikki Beach. When I went there, I had to adjust EVERYTHING in my game. I kept all the same attract material, but I had to change my mannerisms, clothing, and image. I’d love to go back there. So basically, what you can get from this, is that this is not just a game thing. Like all the programs out there will advertise that you can get ANY girl with the right game. Well this is true, but really you need the value pre-requisites also. So you need to learn the SUBTLETIES of these scenes. You need to learn the lingo. If you want models, you need to learn SPECIFIC knowledge that ONLY people in their scene would know. And you need to convey this in your stories. If you’re working the NYC scene, you need to know where the hottest A-List clubs are that ONLY the most socially proofed guys can get into, and then you need to spin routines where the girls FIGURE OUT FOR THEMSELVES that you have access to these places, without you directly qualifying yourself. Get it? Basically the elements are: • •
act like you’re at a party with mutual friends act higher than her by ignoring things that she says, and using body language to show disinterest at various KEY times when she’d expect the opposite, so she’ll chase -find some cool commonalities, by talking about detailed knowledge of her scene by spinning it with COOL stories so it comes across natural, not like you’re trying to prove that you’re in the scene -NOW escalate your normal C&F game and game the f*ck out of her and pump her buying temperature • seduce, or comfort build and seduce It’s an awesome game. Have fun with it. Seek out these scenes, and go play.
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WHO ARE YOU? OK, this is group theory here, mainly for clubs.. however, this stuff is still really important for lone girls, or daytime group sets. OK, what is MM (Mystery Method / Group Theory)? (btw, MM workshops are OVER.. no longer offered.. so this is not spam.. its just info that I hope will might be helpful for guys who are interested in sarging clubs) MM doesn’t focus on entertaining groups, and it doesn’t require you to turn all mystical and weird. The purpose of group theory is to convey attractive qualities to the target, OBLIQUELY through her friends. There are many advantages to this: 1) 2) 3)
social proof since you are conveying all of these cool things about yourself to guys, or ugly girls, the target hot girl doesn’t suspect that you’re trying to impress her.. you can convey massive value, without it coming off as try-hard or bragging you get to lower the girl’s self-esteem with negs, but since her friends are all grouped right there, she HAS to stay long enough for you to proceed to pick her up (unlike lone girls, who sometimes will just pickup and leave if you neg them)
So what is the purpose of ROUTINES?? Routines are field proven, tightened, guaranteed little peices of trash, that you KNOW will garner fast social proof. Many are not designed to attract the chick. They are designed to get you social proof. Going up to a chick and telling her that you may dye your hair blonde will NOT attract her. It WILL make you the centre of attention for around 1 minute though. The essence of the PU is NOT in your ability to successfully execute a routine. Routines are designed to hold attention long enough, that you can convey who YOU are. So the question is: WHO - ARE - YOU??? By the end of a set, your target should have a CLEAR idea of who you are. You are supposed to have CONVEYED that INDIRECTLY to her, through her group. So say that you run a bunch of routines like The Lying Game, the ESP game, and the Spells Opener. You do all this, and you have social proof. Great! Is the chick attracted though? Likely not. The thing that attracts her, is that a guy walked in, IGNORED her, TEASED her, and INTRIGUED her. Then, she proceeded to take interest in figuring out “WHO IS THIS GUY???”, and you OBLIQUELY conveyed this to her through her group of friends. Any routine that you read has to be executed in such a way that you INSERT PEICES OF YOURSELF into the routines. Mystery: Superstar illusionist. Papa: International Playboy. Twentysix: Comedian, super fun guy. TD: Badboy, jerk, playful. Eddy: Caveman.
So for examples, what some MM guys convey?
Mystery, for example, will run his routines, but INSERT piles of shit into it like “when I was last in Los Angeles, shooting x,y,z event, I found that x-routine had x-relevance..” Papa will say “yeah.. cause when I was travelling to this exciting place, and that exciting place, I found that x-routine did x,y,z” Me, I’ll run routines, and then make fun of the chick severely, and tell stories about how I like to use girls, and then twirl them around and kiss them and run alot of Kooper style C&F frames.. Eddy, he’ll run a routine, and yell “ARGHHHHHHH” and grab them and possibly drag them somewhere.
So see, the goal isn’t to just go out and run routines. The routines are designed as BAIT to keep the group focused on you, so that you have a chance to OBLIQUELY convey an ATTRACTIVE personality to the chick. They also allow you to INDEBT the group to you, since you were so fascinating/entertaining/exciting, that they can’t refuse your request to chat thir pretty friend in isolation (who you were incidentally accidently kinda rude to).
So ask yourself: WHO - AM - I??? When I leave a set, have I just run a bunch of routines? Or have I conveyed a MASSIVELY ATTRACTIVE personality to a chick, who will now want to chase me? Are you an accountant, or a computer programmer? NO.. FUCK THAT! :)
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250 You are not your job. You are not your khakis! ;) If you’re interested in doing clubs, figure out a self-image that is attractive to girls, but also CONGRUENT to your TRUE personality. Then focus on creating a 20 minute game plan to convey that to a group, that will have the target girl wanting to meet you by the end of it. Is your image: • exciting? • dangerous? • social proofed? • romantic/poetic? • fascinating? -(I’m sure there’s others I’ve missed) If not, then TAYLER an image that is, and learn a way to convey it that is COOL.. Ask yourself: “IF I WERE TO APPROACH MYSELF, WHEN I WAS HANGING WITH MY FRIENDS, WOULD I APPRECIATE THE PERSON THAT I AM TAKING OVER MY GROUP, OR WOULD I THINK THAT I’M LAME?” Don’t just focus on memorizing material. Think about what the material is DOING for you. Are you a COOL guy when you’re in the club? Can you CONVEY that consistently? Is canned material HELPING you to do this, or is it making you sound REHEARSED? For me, alot of the stuff that I made up on my own, it gets TIGHTER and SHARPER every time that I use it.. But alot of stuff that I field test, it gets WORSE and WORSE every time that I use it, because I don’t really like it, and get more bored of using it every time that I try it. Other stuff that I’ve read from other people, I LOVE to use. Zan: “you’re my new GF” Kooper: C&F frames Swingcat: qualifying Badboy: are you rich? CPowles: hands off the merchandise, and millions of little liens he has So basically, I run this shit, but also I SATURATE the set with my own PERSONAL details.. carefully SELECTED details, that will ATTRACT chicks.
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SICKBOY INTERVIEW SB: I just got into the game in June. I came to a meeting just like this where Tyler Durden and Papa were talking. I had pretty much zero real field experience before. I was just reading posts on ASF. Tyler Durden and Papa invited me two weeks later down to Miami to a workshop down there. We set it up to hang out the rest of the summer…Montreal, London, Amsterdam, Spain. 10 days, straight sarging…8PM to 6AM. When you spend all this time in the field, you start to notice things. Your intuition tells you what's going to happen before it happens. Basically, what I came here to talk about is all that field experience and all those days sarging this summer. Unless you're really in the field, all the time, noticing what's going on, looking for certain things, you're just not going to get better. That's why I want to encourage you guys to get out in the field. Fuck up a bunch of sets. You'll just learn so much from that. Table of Contents • • • • • • • • • •
Inner Game Indirect/Direct Shit Testing Lock-Up Buying Temperatures More on Lock-ups Body Language Field Report Openers Blowing AFCs/Cockblocks Out of the Set
Sickboy Interview - Inner Game
You guys are into Speed Seduction, Ross Jeffries, Major Mark…most of what they focus on is inner game, confidence. That might work for some of you. I never really got into it. I always went along with what Mystery says. If you want to get over approach anxiety, if you want to get confidence, just do it. Go out by yourself. Go out to a club all the way uptown or downtown. People aren't going to see you again. Just crash and burn a few sets. It happens all the time. I still get blown out hard. I go to the clubs, like the Bowery Bar. You get these JAPpy girls. These girls will cut you down hard. You want to just put yourself out there, get shot down. You know what these girls look like. They look like a million dollars. Just approach them. Get blown out. It's funny. Go with a wingman. Play a game. See who can get blown out the most. See who can do the most sets. By the end of it you guys will have the funniest stories. You're laughing now. That's what it's going to be like. It happened to me when I first started all the time. I'd approach these sets and get cut down hard. It's bad for about two seconds afterward, but you laugh about it…and with your wingman. It's funny and no one says anything. It's not a big deal. I think it's a real confidence builder. Just going out there, getting shot down, realizing what it's like. It's not that bad. More often than not, you go with that mindset (have fun) and sets will open up. Holy shit. Just by getting that initial contact within minutes you will feel so great about yourself. You went out. You did it. You got your foot in the door. Half of this stuff is just getting your foot in the door, especially with these high status NY women. Once you get your foot in the door, it's not that hard. What I realize from traveling all over, talking to all these different types of women… English, Dutch, Spanish Italian, Canadian…what's different about the NY scene is that to get your foot in the door is harder than anywhere else. You go around NYC and how many times a day does someone try to sell you something on the street, stop you for change. So women are walking around NY with their shields up. Even when you go into a club…NY is a hyper glamorous city. You got all these modeling agencies, all these wannabe actresses, all these beautiful people. Everyone constantly wants something. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BE DIFFERENT? That's how you have to be to get your foot in the door. Once you get that shield down, it's a lot easier than any other city in the world. To give you a good example, when we were in Amsterdam, girls were really nice. It's a smaller city. It doesn't have a lot of that status that NY has. When you approach, women are very receptive to it. They just see someone's talking. They don't have shields up. The problem with that is, once you get later and later, where does it go from talking and having a friendly conversation, into the seduction phase. You can get lost in that. In NY, I don't find that as much. In the first two minutes you're in, you're in and proceeding from there is a lot easier than other places. Sickboy Interview - Indirect/Direct
SB: There’s been a lot of debate on indirect game versus direct game, what’s better. The truth is they both work. Guys have been getting laid forever using all types of methods, lines, and techniques. ‘Direct’ is more of an approach where you state your attentions. You’re basically hitting on the girl. She knows from your approach what’s going on, what you’re there for. ‘Indirect’ is when your approach is ambiguous. Are you hitting on her or not? She doesn’t know. You’re kind of conveying this aloofness at the same time you’re conveying active disinterest. Indirect approaching is making her work toward getting you to (take interest). Indirect is not showing interest until later on when she’s earned it. We (me, Papa, Tyler, Mystery) favor indirect approach because that’s going to get you the most consistent results. I’m not saying direct approach doesn’t work, but it’s not going to work the highest percentage of time with the hottest chicks. We’re interested in only 9s and 10s. I’ve successfully sarged NYC models and pulled the hottest chicks from clubs. The reason most guys get blown out is because they’re conveying that they want something. The second the girl picks up that you want something you’re blown out, unless she’s into it….As soon as you get an IOI or SOI (indicator of interest, statement of intent) whether you’re using body language, speech, anything like that, the second she realizes you want something she’s going to decide right then and there, “should I go with this or not?” Most of the time if it’s too early on and you didn’t convey enough personality she’s going to say no. I’m at the point where I’d say in almost 95% of sets I will not get blown out. As long as I stay in the set talking, girls will stay there. You just don’t get blown out, you can’t, because you’re not conveying so much interest and you don’t want something. You’re not presenting the opportunity for them to blow you out. More often than not I flake out on chicks and just walk away. I’m at the point where if a good-looking chick is into me, I’m not just going
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252 to go based on that. It’s going to have to be more than just looks; she’s going to have to convey personality. That’s what I’m screening for. So, with the indirect approach it’s more or less you screening the girl. With the direct approach, she’s screening you because she knows what’s going on with the game. So you’re going to have to keep proving yourself to stay in that set so she won’t blow you out so she chooses you. With indirect, you’re choosing the girl, you’re making her earn it, you’re qualifying her, she’s qualifying herself to you. You’re using punishment/reward. By the end of the time, she’s going to do a lot of things that are going to make her earn it. She’s going to work hard. She knows that. She knows she’s working for it and she’s going to appreciate it even more. You’ll get better results that way. PUA: Doesn’t that also work with your whole theory that you have to be different in NY, and if you’re indirect that you’re different? SB: It’s being VERY different. Look at these guys who get blown out. Look what they’re doing. They’re leaning in, touching, complimenting…be different, be a different guy. I’ll show you guys some openers, how we open. It’s different. The girls haven’t had it before. It’s almost like you’re insulting (?) them too, because you’re coming up to them and just talking, using body language that’s conveying non-interest. Right from the opener you’re getting them trying to earn it, have them qualify themselves to you. Yes, it’s completely different. It’s basically taking all the power away from them. The ball is in your court. I know a lot of you guys have heard “be a man, don’t apologize for your desires, let them know what you want, claim what’s yours, tell chicks to get with the program,” stuff like that. That’s okay, too. It’s a lot of that tough guy rhetoric. But even with the indirect approach, a lot of guys criticize it. “You’re not making your intentions known, how are girls going to know you’re sexual?” Trust me. With indirect, all the power is yours. You can be sexual when you want. There’s a place for that. You will make your desires known, but at the right time. Sickboy Interview - Shit Testing
You guys know about that stuff, right? “Why you talking to me? Nice shirt, real gay. Where are your friends? Why you talking to us?” It’s good because it gives you a chance to display your personality and really take control of the situation, let the girl know you’re for real. I’ll shit test them, too. Your’re always going to get shit tests. Shit tests come in all forms. Have you guys ever had a girl end up hitting you? We had a girl on the beach throwing sand in TD’s face. In later game she’s cuddling with him, flipping out, she didn’t know what to do. She knows she’s got all these emotions and she can’t stop it. Girls will shit test to throw themselves out of state. So if you’re at a club, and you talk to these girls and they’ll be mildly attracted at first, they’ll shit test you to see if you’re going to flake off, to see if you’re a man, to see if you can handle it. I got, “Where’s your friend?” the other day, and my friend is right behind me. The girl saw me get up from my table of friends and walk over. It’s just retarded shit. What did I say to that? Okay, it was a 3-set at a table. One of the girls was shit testing; one was really in to me from the beginning. I used social proof. I used the one that liked me against the one that was shit testing me. I turned the whole table against her. “Why did you ask me that? What kind of question is that?” I turned to the one that liked me and said, “What’s with your friend? Is she always like this? How can you guys hang out with her?” PUA: How could you tell the girl would be on your side? SB: You can tell. IOIs, intuition. You know when girls are into you and when they’re not. PUA: There’s a very good book with pictures of IOIs, proximity, groups…It’s called “Secrets of Sexual Body Language.” SB: That’s strange. From what I’ve noticed, being in the field a lot, you’ll learn to recognize IOIs like this, like this, like this (snap). There’s different levels of IOIs. It’s called ‘buying temperature.’ I’ll go through that a little later. A lot of the things I do with the indirect approach are shit testing girls. They’ll start doing some really weird stuff. This is probably the most powerful tool I have: shit testing girls, using it against them. They don’t know how to respond. I had this one girl. I was shit testing her. She was crazy attracted to me. She had a full beer. Dumps it on my shirt. This is how fucked up girls get when they start getting attracted. They do some really weird shit. They throw themselves out of state. PUA: How do you recover? SB: That was a shit test. You gotta say something like, “Hey, when I said drinks are on me, I didn’t mean…” PUA: What’d you do after that? SB: I dragged her into the bathroom, threw her up against the wall and started making out. PUA: Caveman… SB: You can caveman later…Later game is great for caveman, because by that time they don’t know what to do. You just have to take control of the situation. That’s where you start being direct, where right off the bat you’ll see guys in the street caveman chicks and grab them. It just doesn’t work there. Later game…after you convey personality, qualify them, build attraction, comfort, trust. If you don’t have any trust or comfort and you start caveman…it will work sometimes on party chicks. But on the chicks we’re interested in, probably not. SB: They do shit to throw themselves out of state. How many of you guys have been in bed with chicks and you’re about to close the deal and they start acting all fucked up. They start asking you really weird questions. “What’s your real name? Where’d you go to school? Why’d you choose me? This is all stuff we’ve taken care of in later game by now. Right off the bat, shit testing is funny. Let me put this stuff in context. All the things I’m talking about here, this is for anything over an 8.5. If you want to pick up 7s, 6s, I can talk about that, too. There’s a whole different strategy for that. You wouldn’t shit test a 6
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253 or 7, unless they had really high self-esteem, because they’re going to be all like “I can’t believe you just said that to me (depressed). PUA: If you’re at a bar that’s a sausage farm, like it usually is, and there’s a few girls, all 6s or 7s, but because they have 8 guys hanging over their shoulder, their self-esteem skyrockets. SB: That’s why I don’t like to go by the looks model so much. You can find a girl who’s a 9 and have her self-esteem down low. If you shit test her or neg her, she’s walking away (head down), “I can’t believe that guy said that to me.” I was in South Beach, Miami. From across the bar, I saw this incredibly hot 9, smokin’ body, blonde hair. I approached, and I came off a little too hard. I found out she was only 16 years old, and it was one of her first times in a bar. She didn’t know how to handle that, didn’t want to talk to me. She looked really hot, older. So think of it in terms of self-esteem. Try to gauge a girl’s self-esteem. A lot of it is mood based. If the girl’s feeling really up, and you can see it too, just from how she’s interacting with her friends, she’s the center of attention, you’re going to know: high self-esteem. You’re going to know what tactics to pull out. Then you see the two girls in the club sitting in the corner, all-quiet, like they’re intimidated by the place. Even though they could be good looking, you’re not going to approach the same way you normally would, or use the same tactics, when you’re shit testing. PUA: So you use more her emotional state in the moment than her self-esteem? SB: Self-esteem. You can usually gauge it by talking to girls about how receptive they are to being approached. You say “Hey…”. A girl with low self-esteem will turn around, open body language right away, all attentive. If a girl does that to you, don’t shit test her, don’t neg her. She really wants to talk to you to show her body language like that. But if the girl is like (shows attitude, etc.), come out with the big guns. Shit test her, neg her, all that stuff. Knock her off that pedestal. And first, you got to get her to earn your respect, too. Shit testing. How do I do it? I’ll give you an example of one of the openers we use. “Hey guys. I need a female opinion. Do girls think that the rock star David Bowie is hot? My little sister just got a poster of David Bowie to hang up on the wall. She’s only 16. Do you guys think he’s hot? Do you like old men? Do you think old guys are hot?!” Then you turn your back. The girls are like, “What?!” Stuff like that. Right from the beginning, start accusing them of stuff. Anything. On your approach, if they do the slightest thing… Let’s say they twirl their hair. Go, “Are you trying to pick me up? You’re twirling your hair. I know that. I know what that means. You’re not hiding anything.” Accuse them. “You’re licking your lips. I know what that is. You’re attracted to me.” Tyler Durden has this routine. It’s a super, super good routine. We usually use this right off the opener. It is solid. You’ll see the responses you get when you do this to a 9 or 10. It’s basically a big shit test. You’ll do the opener, then they’ll say something. Then you say, “You know what. I can’t trust you guys. Girls are predators. Girls are sexual predators. I come out to clubs, and I see all these guys trying to seduce all these women. But that’s not the case. That’s not the way it works. Guys are so dumb. They think they’re seducing the women. At the end of the day it’s women that choose. It’s the girl that chooses. Guys dangle themselves in front of the women thinking they made it happen. But all along, at the end of the day, girls choose…You know, when guys get mad at their girlfriend, they can’t just go out to a club and sleep with a random girl. It just doesn’t happen. How many guys can do that? How many guys do you think can honestly do that? Less than 3 percent. Look at these guys. Look at them. They go after all these girls. They’re complimenting, they’re leaning in, they’re touching them. That doesn’t get anyone anywhere. That’s not going to work. Some girls like it, but seriously, how many guys do you think can really do that? It’s the girls that choose. Girls go out to the clubs. They put on their push-up bra, high-heel shoes, and just walk around looking hot, choosing guys. That’s the way it is. You know what? You know why this is? It’s because girls are the only gender that has an organ designed solely for sexual pleasure. That’s why girls, when they have sex, they’re like, “oooooh, oooooh” (loud, others in the club hear you). When guys have sex, it’s like “uhhhhh “ (relief). It’s funny. There’s more on this on a post on ASF from two weeks ago. PUA: I think on a higher level, one of the good things about it is you’re reversing the frame… SB: Girls ask me if I’m stealing their mannerisms, which I love to do……… PUA: …making them comfortable with things like, literally chasing you. Accusing them of showing a lot of interest in you. SB: What it also does is it lets them know that you know that shit. When you say in the beginning, “Look at all these guys, they’re leaning, touching and complimenting…”, girls know about that stuff. The next girl you see, go up to her and ask her, “I was having a conversation with my friend. Let me see if he was right. He was telling me that girls don’t like it when guys get close, lean in and talk to them in their ear. I don’t care who it is. The girl will say, “That’s so gross. I hate that, hate that.” Some girls don’t mind. Like if you’re friends with her it’s okay. But if you’re just a random guy, coming over and leaning in like this (leaning in), really weird… Even some of my guy friends do it to me now and I’m like, “What are you doing? I can hear you.” PUA: They shit test right away? SB: Yes, she’ll start shit testing right away. This is for the hotter chicks. PUA: So you’re letting them feel they’re in control, letting them think it’s the chick’s choice? Of course, not really. SB: Every girl I’ve successfully seduced in the past month or so, has felt that she chose me. I make them feel that way. Maybe later on I’ll go through a lay report from last night from start to finish. Steel their mannerisms. You’re taking all their shit-testing mechanisms, turning it around, and using it on them. So you’re taking all their ammo and turning it right back on them. That leaves them defenseless. They don’t know what the fuck to do.
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254 Here’s the thing I like to do. Girl Code. This is the one of the biggest…works in every set. It is probably one of the best techniques we have. Any time you see girls and you’re talking to them and you ask them a question or anything, when they hit an emotion, a high emotion, they’ll look at each other. All the time. Call them out on it. PUA: They’re saying (with their eyes), are we picking up the same things, are we seeing this guy the same way? SB: Exactly. We wanted to get to the bottom of this, see exactly what was triggering this. Basically they’re looking for approval from each other, because they’re feeling the same emotions. When girls feel these emotions, they know what these are. They feel these crazy emotions and that’s actually getting them hornier when they’re feeling these different emotions. They just want approval from their friends when they’re feeling the same things. If just one of them starts feeling it she’s going to get embarrassed. So, they want to know that all the girls are feeling that same emotion. That’s why you’ll get a lot of cock blocks, because they’re not feeling the same emotions. So girls are always checking in with each other. Now that we know this, call them out on it. “I know that look. I know what that was. That was girl code. I know that.” When you’re with a wingman, you say, “We know that chick. Why don’t you just ask me a question about her.” And we just… (SB does the girl code sideways eye shift to his wing, that the wing would mirror.) They die laughing. It’s the funniest thing ever. Style has another version of it. He calls it a ‘best friends test.’ Girls do the girl code, then he goes “Are you guys best friends. I could tell. I’ll prove it to you guys. What is…your favorite shampoo?” (The girls look at each other.) See. You didn’t even answer the question and I could tell because you looked at each other. Then right after you say that, they’ll look at each other again. Then you say. “See, like that.” And they lose it. They lose it. It’s probably the most effective technique we have. PUA: What’s the difference in girl code between this guy’s cool and let’s get outta here? SB: Girls have girl code for everything. They can basically, have a ‘conversation,’ let each other know what’s going on, without verbally acknowledging it. One of them is like the ‘let’s get out of here’ look. They sort of roll their eyes. Or they’ll just look at each other. All you guys have seen it. So right after they do this one (sideways look?), you go, “I know another girl code, too. It’s the let’s get out of here look. But you guys didn’t do that one yet.” You just bust them on that. It lets them know you know the deal. They’ll actually appreciate this shit, because most guys don’t understand this. It builds a certain level of comfort as well. What girls do too is when the set is going really well and they’re feeling all these emotions, they’ll hold hands. They won’t even realize they’re doing it. Like this, standing right next to each other holding hands. And you’ll see them pump, as soon as one of them feels a strong emotion. That’s how they signal to each other that it’s going well. It’s really weird. Sometimes you might be working with a wingman and you steal (?) the set, let’s say the girls have their back turned like this, they’ll still have their hands down here pumping like this, letting each other know that it’s going really well. The second one of them breaks it like that (pulling away sharply), the other one will go and both you guys will be blown out of the set. PUA: (Question about shit testing, girl code – indiscernible) SB: You’re picking up on that. All the sub-communication stuff. And you’re responding in a playful way, not like you’re picking her up. “I know that. I have a little sister. She told me about that.” If you do it playful enough, it’s fun. PUA: Do you turn away after you’ve said it? SB: I should give you guys a demonstration of my body language, because my body language is really unique. In the first five minutes, it looks like I’m going to walk away. The whole time I’m there. It puts people on edge. It’s a combination of stuff I’ve seen Mystery do, and Tyler Durden. If you’ve ever seen Mystery open a set, it looks like he’s going to walk away. You just fear that he’s going to walk away and not finish his story. PUA: Can you give a good example…what kind of story or opener would you use where you’d do this? SB: Anything. Let me finish up stealing mannerisms first….Okay, you can In later game…one of my favorite lines I used to get laid with once…Things started getting really hot and heavy with this girl in a club. I knew it was on. I could have just banged her right there. I realized I had to deal with the whole going home thing, and start up again once we got home. So I was going to challenge her on it. “You know, you really turn me on, but I promised myself I wouldn’t sleep with you tonight.” It sounds so retarded, right? Girls know this. This is what girls tell themselves. No guy would seriously say that. “I just can’t.” Once I said that, the chick basically challenged me on it. Steal a girl’s body language, when you see girls talk to each other. Notice sub-communication, non-verbal communication. Notice what they say, the structure of what they say. Half of your game in a club is not going to be the attract stuff. The attract stuff goes pretty quick. It’s easy. 90% of my game in clubs is convincing girls to trust me and feel comfortable around me. Notice the way girls are with each other, because they’ll feel more comfortable when you’re like that. That’s why sometimes in sets girls will ask me if I’m gay. It’s not because I have all these gay mannerisms. It’s because I don’t have all these typical male mannerisms. I’m building attraction, but at the same time I’m not conveying interest, through body language, etc. So if you don’t convey interest, but at the same time you’re building attraction, they’re really processing it as ‘this guy’s gay.’ ‘He’s making me attracted to him, but he’s not interested. What’s going on?’ A lot of times when you’re talking to two girls, one girl’s trying to shit test you, one girl’s trying to blow you out. Notice these things any time it happens in the field. That’s why getting blown out so many times in sets is a good thing. Use what the girls did against you. Use it against them. Back turns. Anytime you say something wrong, something they don’t like, girls will always turn their back. PUA: If they do that, is there a formula for responding? Do you qualify them? SB: I qualify. I really want to talk about the field report from last night. It’s a great example of where all this stuff falls into place. I go through the body language stuff, how I shit tested her, how I passed her shit tests, back turns…
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255 Another good thing, to get your wingman into sets... I’m sure when you guys have worked with wings before, one half of it can go really well, and then you tell the friend, and it’s very hard to get in there, because the girls know what’s going on there. Two guys, two girls, they know. So one of them is going to be a little blocked up. What do girls do when it goes like that? One of them will be, “I’m really into it, but I can’t leave my friends. I can’t leave them. I’m going to have to go. “ Use that against them. Pull it out before they do. It doesn’t even matter if your wingman is not into it. Use it anyway. Let’s say I’m working with Marco, and Marco’s chick is being a bitch, but it’s going really well with my chick, I’ll pull my chick aside and say, “Listen. My friend’s really cool, but your friend’s just not into it. We’re not going to be those guys that split you guys up. Even though it’s going pretty well between us and I’d love to talk with you more, I’m going to have to go.” What she’ll do is she’ll pull her friend aside and tell her “He’s really cool. He’s a really cool guy. Just talk to him, talk to him.” I’ve seen this happen. I’ve done this with TD. Sometimes I’m just working sets where it’s not going like that, and we’ll do this to get each other into the set. It works, believe me. If it’s going really good with your chick, there’s no way she’s not going to try to keep you there. PUA: What usually happens after that? SB: She’ll try to get your wingman. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it doesn’t work. But for the most part, it works. Another thing…notice the way girls talk to each other. Girls keep jumping topics from one thing to the next. They go through a whole progression of things. Guys are goal-oriented. Look at us now. We’re talking so that by the end of the day, you guys will be better at pickup and have a better understanding. Girls are into book clubs, right? There’s no goal in a book club. It’s talking about the book, talking about emotions, what they read about, stuff like that. Girls are into talking about relationships, emotions. Guys, what’s important to them? Goals. When you talk to girls, if you keep jumping topics from one thing to the next, they won’t pick up on it. It’s normal for them. That’s one thing I picked up from talking to girls. You don’t have to tell a story with a beginning, middle, and end, with a logical progression. Talk about more emotions, how you felt through that whole story, instead of what you did, what you accomplished. Sickboy Interview - Lock-Up
How many of you guys have read about ‘lock-up?’ What a lock-up is basically is what happens when the girl senses you want something from her. That’s why guys get blown out of sets. That’s why guys aren’t getting good responses in sets. The girls are sensing that there’s some ulterior motive. There’s a few ways to deal with this problem. You’ll notice with some girls, on the approach, their body language will get real stiff. Their shoulders and legs will tense up. This is extreme lock-up, where they’ll fix their eyes on one thing. Sometimes, if you’re doing a 3-set, one of the girls will be locked up, while the other two are responsive. Lock-up is also closed body language. It’s not open; it’s sort of away… PUA: Are you able to get them out of it? SB: Oh yeah. You have to, in any set. Even if you guys are approaching indirectly, that first instance the girl’s going to be in a mild lock-up. I’m sure a lot of you guys have experienced it. Everyone gets this. The first thing to do is to barrel through. Do your routines. Don’t ask questions. I don’t know how you guys approach, but stop asking questions. Girls just get more and more locked up to the point where they just shut down. You could be like, “I’ll give you a hundred bucks to high five me. A hundred bucks.” And they won’t. We actually tried that once. We had a girl so locked up in Giza (sp?), and we hadn’t field tested this, so we did it. Sickboy Interview - Buying Temperatures
…start with zero lock-up, approach, and preferred buying temperature is she kind of opens up her body language. She allows herself to giggle at your jokes, answer your questions. It’s the first buying temperature. You can keep escalating to where you had it up before, where she’s willing to touch you, so you do kino tests. “Watch this cool handshake I learned.” She’s willing to touch you. She’s at that buying temperature. Usually like a high five is a good kino test. When she says something really cool, say “That’s fucking awesome, high five.” Sometimes you’ll see, when it’s not really there she’ll be kind of hesitant. I get this a lot, if I do it too early. Then I know I’m not progressing. So this is just to let you know where you’re at and sarge at the same time. PUA: How do you increase buying temperature? SB: Through different stages of the sarge, you keep escalating and escalating. Attract routines will increase buying temperature… buying temperature moving into rapport…Once you guys drop the attract stuff, start moving into rapport, the girls are going to start asking you about yourself. So buying temperature keeps getting higher and higher. You’ll notice this the more you go out, how it increases and increases. Different things along the way will give you cues. One of the biggest cues is when they start asking you questions about yourself. That means drop all the cock/funny stuff, drop all the routines. You just start building comfort with them, letting them know about yourself. That’s a huge waypoint in the sarge. PUA: Do you use fluff (talk)? SB: Directed fluff. I’ll go through that later -- comfort building and trust building -- because that’s probably the most important part of the game. That’s where most sarges are lost, once you get past the initial attract stuff. It’s the important part too, because that’s what’s going to decide on Day 2 if the girl is going to sleep with you or not, how much comfort and trust she has. The next buying temperature…is she at buying temperature enough to venue change? Is she willing to go have coffee, is she willing to do a venue change within the bar. If you’re at a table, is she willing to go to the bar and have a drink? Is she willing to go sit on couches and talk to you alone? Just keep increasing, increasing, increasing. The final buying temperature is sex.
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256 Sickboy Interview - More on Lock-ups
A good routine is the lock-up routine. You’ll see that the girl is locked up. It’s the same stuff. Calling them on their mannerisms and showing them you know what lock-up is will make them feel super comfortable…Pacing is a huge rapport technique, one of the best, that you can use in this situation, because it also builds comfort letting them know that you know what’s going on, you’re aware, and you respect that. A lot of times, with all this buying temperature stuff too, when you pace them you’re realizing that it’s not a jump to finish. There are certain waypoints. I don’t talk about buying temperature with girls at all. I talk a lot about games that the girls want to deal with, and they like it, but not buying temperature. Once they start playing games and shit, I say, “I know that.” I told a girl last night, “I know this game. I know what you’re trying to do and I’m better at this than you. The last girl that tried to do cried. You don’t want to play this game with me.” She’s like “What game, what game?” I turned my back and she ran away. Then she came back later. Lock-up – how to get through. So you’d say something like, “Look. You’re all locked up. Look. You got your arms folded. I bet you couldn’t even high five me for a hundred dollars. You can’t even do it; you’re so locked up. What’s with you?” You use her friends often, because they aren’t locked up. You can even say something like, “Listen, you’re friend is all locked up. She’s obviously concerned about something. I don’t want to be that guy that just stays here and talks to you and breaks you guys apart (?). I don’t want to be that guy.” Then you walk away. Then her friends are like, “No. No, no. She’s okay. She’s not locked-up.” They’ll be taking her hands down. Just pointing out that you know what lock-up is…You can say something like, “One of my best friends is a girl and she told me about this. When she senses a guy wants something from her or guys are up to something with an ulterior motive, she’d get all locked up. I don’t want to do that, I don’t want to be that guy.” Just start turning away slowly, and you’ll see them start to get unlocked. Other stuff…just barrel through it. Keep going through routines, getting them to open up a little bit at a time. PUA: I think that the best thing about it is you get them into a frame where if they do that again, then they’re responding to your frame. So then they’ll say, “I’m not going to do what you say.” PUA: They don’t want to be unattractive, and they realize you’re pointing that out to them that they’re really being unattractive. PUA: They hate the idea that they’re playing your game. When you do that, “Oh, you’re doing that whole lock-up thing.” It relates to this other routine…You’re hanging out with these two girls, and they’ll do the girl code and start doing a drag-away. You go, “I know what you’re doing. You’re like the drag-away girl. You’re the one who goes like this (and you mimic it). “Let’s get out of here.” You grab them and you start moving away. Then they start laughing. Sometimes they’re like, “I don’t appreciate that. Don’t call me that. “ But you know what, they stop doing it. They don’t lock-up. They don’t want to be in your frame. SB: You realize how strong this is when you point this out to the girls, and they realize a guy understands this. How do you know this stuff? It’s powerful. PUA: Can you talk about how you barrel through? I can imagine doing the David Bowie opener, then some other thing…Is it rapid fire?… SB: A lot of guys will confuse lock-up with a girl caught with a ‘deer in the headlights’ look. Sometimes our games are so strong, that girls won’t be able to respond to it. You come through with this opener and this interesting conversation shit and it shuts their game down. So if you sense lock-up, just bust some cocky/funny shit, do some mini-cold reads, funny cold reading. PUA: Cold reading is like you are…bad, a Powerpuff girl, etc. SB: It’s telling them things about themselves that you have no way of knowing. The way Mystery handles lock-ups, he just barrels through it. He does the black nails thing and just keeps going on normally. Eventually the girl will start to unlock. He’s so good with the body language. PUA: Do routine, routine, routine, ask them for their opinion?… SB: No real questions. Because questions will cause lock-up even more. Why should they talk to you? They’ll say, “Why are you asking me this?” That’s why before we go in with indirect approach we’re not asking questions right off the bat. When you’re trying to get them to talk you’re qualifying yourself. PUA: How do you and Tyler, or Papa, deal with the rejection where they pretend to get a phone call on their cell. Or they say I have to make a call. Are you always dead at that point? SB: A lot of guys want to know what to do when that happens. I’m more into what can I do to prepare so that doesn’t happen. PUA: How to get it so there’s no opportunity. SB: Yeah. PUA: You’re saying don’t use questions use statements? SB: I don’t even ask questions. There’s a time when you can open up with a false opinion opener, where you pretend like you’re interested. Her answer is irrelevant. It’s just a means for you to get in, do your routine, tell your story. Lock-up…Make sure you guys understand it, realize it and can call it out when it happens. This will get your foot in the door in most sets.
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257 Sickboy Interview - Body Language
SB: There are different approaches for different settings. So don’t think one approach will work for all settings. In an extremely loud club, you’re going to do a totally different approach than if you were in a quiet coffee shop. On the street, it’s a totally different approach. So right now, we’ll do a club approach. You want to talk right here, from your diaphragm, really loud, cut through the music. You don’t want to start leaning in like most guys. [See other notes (Vini, etc.) for more details on body language. Mike highlighted three basic moves that I recall. (1) He does the opener, turned at an angle, a position of disinterest, almost like he’s going to walk away. With neutral rapport, he (2) turns to face the girl, with open body language (legs apart). From here, he can also tease her, give her light, playful shoves to the shoulder (“Girls love this.”) and still pivot in and out of the space, so he’s still not really fully committed to giving his full attention. As he gains rapport, and the comfort level is building, he can (3) step in facing to communicate closer with her.] SB: There are three levels of communication. The first is ‘breaking rapport.’ “Why are you talking to me?” The second level is neutral. “Hey guys, I need a female opinion.” The third level is trying to gain rapport. “Hey, what’s your name?” See the distinction? If you do a walk-up opener, you want to be neutral, facing away, just talking like this. You’re not leaning in, because that would be gaining rapport, qualifying yourself. Neutral opinion openers are ‘who lies more,’ ‘jealous girlfriend,’ etc. You use neutral language, and neutral body language. Throughout the opener, I like to shift through all three of those so the girls don’t even know where you’re at. She’s thinking, “Is he trying to talk to me? Is he staying here? Is he going to walk away?” PUA: What about moving sets? SB: It’s really hard to do when you’re walking next to the person. The best way we found to stop moving sets is to be stationery yourself as they walk past, (turn your head, but not your body, so they come back – TD) and go “Hey. I need a female opinion…” It’s better to get them to stop. When you’re walking with them it’s like you’re trying to chase them down, and they’ll feel a little intimidated, especially in NYC. PUA: They have to stop anyway. Then you do a time constraint. (“I only have a minute…”) SB: You have to come in super neutral. If you come in direct the chances are really small for them actually stopping. Some guys get it to work, but it’s hard, less consistent. PUA: Verbally and non-verbally…I like the concept here…When you go like that (push her away playfully), the natural reaction is “Stop pushing me.“ What it looks like is you’re pushing them away, and they’re coming back to you. Non-verbally it looks like you’re showing interest, but verbally you say something and you’re about to walk away. They respond to that. You’re qualifying them… PUA: Cause they said something really cool, so you’re like “Oh wow, that’s really cool.” It’s rewarding them for good responses. SB: (During attract phase body language is)…It’s super, super playful. You treat them like a bratty little sister (push them away playfully). As long as you’re not intrusive (leaning in, stepping in too close). It’s not intrusive, it’s playful, and girls love this stuff. I was out Friday night at a bar. I was talking to this chick, super hot. I shit tested her hard and started pushing her away. A girl like this had never had this happen. “Get away?” Are you kidding me? To a fucking 9? It doesn’t happen. So they don’t have a response. She’s like, “No. You can’t do that. You can’t do that to me.” I got the best compliment from any girl anywhere. She says, “You’re like me.” That’s exactly what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to take the mannerisms from 9s and 10s, steal them, incorporate them into ourselves, and use them against them. PUA: What kind of shit testing did you use? SB: ‘You’re trying to pick me up…trying to seduce me…drag me away from my friends…’ She had a necklace that said Sagittarius. I’m like ‘holy shit; I’m going to have fun with this.’ “I said, no way, that’s so bad. Sagittarius? Oh, that’s bad.” She didn’t know what to do. She goes, “What’s your sign?” “I don’t know. I don’t think I know you well enough.” The whole time I’m pushing her away, I’m twirling her, giving her high fives. Girls love that stuff. PUA: You did this immediately? SB: This is right off the bat. PUA: So you do the opener, then you begin pushing them away? SB: After they start giggling. It’s buying temperature. PUA: At what level do you start pushing them away? SB: Once you realize some subtle IOIs. Once they start talking to you, once they’re opened up with open body language. Once they start giggling a lot…that’s what we try doing with the opener, because giggling pushes them through emotions, and it gets their buying temperature up. PUA: What if they’re sitting down? SB: That limits you because you’re not going to be able to do body language. You’ve got to do it with verbal communications, strictly verbal. You’re going through all three of those…break rapport, neutral, get rapport. You’re going to try to shift through all three of those. This is still in the attract phase. This is the first 5-10 minutes.
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258 PUA: What if they’re sitting and they don’t have an extra seat? SB: You’re going to have to pull up a chair. PUA: You don’t have a chair. SB: It’s like you’re blown out. What’s going to happen is I’m going to have to approach them, do my opener, but where do you go from there? You’re going to be standing there forever. It’s just like you’re the chump that’s standing there. What you can do with it is, when you’re by this girl, grab her hands and take her seat. It only works on the hottest girls. Don’t do it with a little fatty. She’ll cry. PUA: What about subways? SB: Subways are weird. I don’t know many girls that like guys talking to them on subways. I know a girl that purposely goes on there with books so no one will talk to her. I’m not saying it’s impossible. Just realize that on the subway their defense will be extremely high. It’s like approaching a girl in a dark alley. So don’t think you can pick-up in any circumstances whatsoever. Some circumstances, the logistics are just fucked up. Some guys have trouble in clubs. It’s hard for them, but you can learn that. The streets at night…. Sickboy Interview - Field Report
SB: This is really bad. This is my neighbor living in the room next to me. I just moved in two weeks ago. I didn’t know these women before. This was the first time we go over there. It was just a party. These were college girls. This girl was 20. A little hottie. So, I go over there. The second I get in a venue, I just want to start talking, because the more you prolong it, the harder it’s going to be. Let’s say you go in a club and you go like, “Okay. I’ll do a set. Let me get water first.” The more you prolong it, the harder it’s going to be. So, when I get in, I start right off the bat. When you guys are doing clubs or bars, hit the first set you see. Test out an opener, get in a confident state. It will just make you feel more comfortable, even though you don’t want any girls in the group, just get into that mode. It’s so much easier. You’re approach anxiety will just go down, the less you think about it and the more you do it…So, I walk in there. The girls are already in a really good mood. It was going to be easy getting attraction, getting good vibes. I wouldn’t have to deal with lock-up or any of that stuff. I walk over to one of the girls. I did the jealous girlfriend opener. It’s a perfect opinion opener because it sets it up for you to start shit testing. So I start shit testing her and she’s giggling, giggling, giggling. “You’d burn the pictures? That’s so mean, so mean. You could be the worst date (?) ever, ever.” I start pushing her away. She comes back, I start twirling her. So I’m pushing her away, leaning in, pulling back--stupid attract stuff. Mini-cold reads: Powerpuff girl, little Nancy Drew girl (she’s asking all these questions). She was like an 8. So, I at least had the attraction stuff down, because I was just doing so much of it, takeaway body language, that she was grabbing me, grabbing me. When she’d grab me, I tested her some more. “Why you grabbing me? Hands off the merchandise, okay? Hands off the merchandise. I don’t think I know you well eno ugh for you to touch me like that. I got to look out for you guys. This is just a room of 6 girls and my roommates (?) aren’t around. I don’t know what you girls can do. I’ve got watch out for you girls.” At this point, her roommates are in the set too, and they’re all giggling and I’m just like playing them one off the other. So, later on we sat down at a table because we were drinking beer. So we start talking, and she starts shit testing me. By this point, we moved into rapport. All the attract stuff was down because I had her now, I had her isolated. Isolation is not a requirement for rapport. Isolation you do later on, but it just so happens that it was just me and her talking. You know you have rapport when girls start asking about yourself. Questions. They want to know about you. They’re trying to gain rapport. All the attract stuff…mini-cold reads, cocky/funny stuff, the big routines, the push away stuff…drop all that, because after a while it gets old. By this time, it’s like getting to know each other. If she sees you as just this guy, especially in a club…girls don’t know who you are, right? They could be massively attracted to you, but if they don’t know who you are, you’re going to have to fill that in. You can’t just be this club guy. When we approach, since we’ve done it so many times, we’re good at it. When I approach a girl in a club, girls know right off the bat, ‘This guy is super, super confident. He’s done this before. He knows what he’s doing. I’m attracted to him, but watch out.’ They know the second…later on they’re fucking, and they know they’re not going to be able to stop it, too, because they’re attracted. So half the game is building trust and comfort. So that’s what you want to do in this whole rapport phase. So I had this girl talking in rapport. She starts shit testing me really, really hard. She’s accusing me of being conceited, of being a player, because they pick up on this shit and after a while your games going to get really good where girls are going to know that you know about this shit. How do you know about this shit? Because you’ve done it a thousand times, you’ve fucked all these chicks, right? They don’t know that we’re in a room right now talking about this stuff, or there’s an Internet chat board where guys are fabricating routines on how to build the perfect connection between two people. Manufactured…they think it’s fucking genuine. They don’t know I could do this with any girl, anywhere. So, I realized that she’s shit testing me. I go to use what she gives me, right? Girls tell you a lot about the sarge. They’ll give you cues to what you need at that point. So when she’s accusing me of being conceited, and a player, two things went off in my mind. First, I’m going to have to disarm that, so comfort and trust is really hard. She already had the doubt, she was on the defensive. Second, she thought I was conceited, so I was overqualified for her, because I was dressed really cool. She knows me and my friends, our reputations. She was very defensive, so I knew I had to work towards that. The best thing to do was…I just went on about how I had to be honest. “I am a male slut. I sleep around with these girls all the time and I’m good at it.” This is the girl I mentioned earlier, when I talked about telling her not to play the game (shit test) with me because “I’m better at it than you and you’ll lose…the last girl cried.” So, she already knew I knew the game. I told her she wasn’t going to win. She challenged me. “You can’t make me cry. That wouldn’t happen to me. So I told her, “I’m a male slut. I go out to clubs. I sleep with good-looking women. But that’s not what I’m looking for.” She says, “What are you looking for?” So I was like, “The girl doesn’t even have to be that gorgeous. I can get that. I can go out to clubs and fuck these girls, but it’s just empty. I wake up in the morning. They leave, and there’s nothing else there. I go back to thinking about my first girlfriend at school, and how we loved each o ther, and how special that was. We used to go out on Saturday nights, and we used to just come back and have great sex. But she’d always be there the next day. We’d have breakfast, read the paper or watch TV. That’s what’s missing in my life right now. I’m through with going out to these clubs, sleeping with these women and having nothing there.” That took care of the whole conceited thing. I was like, “I could fall into that trap really easily. I go out to these clubs and it’s just all superficial. Sometimes I fall into that and I don’t even realize it. I don’t even want that anymore. But that’s what’s there, and that’s what I know.” What I’m doing this all for is I’m challenging her. I’m making her think in her mind, ‘I could be this girl that changes you, that you could wake up with.’
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259 PUA: You mentioned before that maybe you were looking for a really cool girl. What’s your mindset at this point? Are you thinking maybe she is that girl and you’re setting her up for that or are you just trying to fuck her that night? PUA: It’s almost like he’s challenging her to win his comfort and trust. SB: Yeah, make her prove herself, that she could make me not want to be this conceited player now that she thinks I am, which I probably am anyway. PUA: What if the girl just wanted to fuck. SB: I gauged her. She wasn’t that type of girl. There are two types of girls: party girls and girls that are for real. Party girls just stay in the attract phase till you fuck them. You can neg them, tease them, push them away, till you get to the bedroom. You don’t need comfort and trust with party girls. PUA: How do you know if she’s a party girl? SB: You can just tell. Party girls will be like grabbing you, really easy to talk to…they’ll make their intentions known really quick. So where was I?… PUA: The girl’s feeling attraction. She wants to validate that attraction. You’re letting her do that by showing... SB: Yeah. They get pumped through attraction so fast, that there’s no comfort and trust. You have to build that, so that they’ll feel okay with the attraction, and they can act on it, because they’re not going to act on the attraction without comfort and trust. It’s just not going to happen. A girl won’t sleep with you unless she feels comfortable enough, because there’s a lot of fucked up people in the city, especially for a lone girl. She’s going to need to feel strong comfort and trust. PUA: Ross teaches build comfort first and then move into the attraction, but you do it differently. SB: There was a thread on this group a few months ago when I first joined about building attraction and rapport. The general consensus is to get attraction first. …So with this girl, what happened was she responded to it…unbelievable. Then I started talking about the first girlfriend I ever had and the way she made me feel, how I trusted her, and how when I was with her I never wanted to be superficial. I never just wanted to go around and sleep with girls. Basically I had to convey about how sleeping with girls feels and when you feel a real connection with someone it’s so much better. I realized this this summer and I’m trying to get away from that. Notice I didn’t say I’m not a player. I said I still am, but I’m trying to get away from it. If I had responded to her with “I’m not a player. I’m not into that.” I would be qualifying myself. So instead of going against it, you go with it and use it to your advantage. To tell you the truth, the reason I kept going with this is I love to field test stuff. She started challenging me, and I just wanted to see if I could get around it. I think it convinced her that she was the girl that could lead me away from this. PUA: Did you convince her of that or… SB: I made her convince herself. And I made it look like me as the victim. I said, “I go out to these clubs and all my friends are like that and I just don’t want to be like that anymore.” And I tell the girl, “I’m looking for love.” PUA: With a straight face? SB: It’s a straight face. PUA: I’m curious…do you separate in your mind that there’s a difference between trust and comfort? For me it’s like a button… SB: I view comfort more as talking about yourself, letting a girl know who you are, filling in that blank canvas of who you are. A girl is going to feel comfortable around a guy that she knows a lot about. I was basically telling her all about myself. See, I went into this whole story about myself. I told her about this summer, the moment I realized that I didn’t want to be this player anymore. I was home. I was lying on the beach. I described how beautiful it was. I was by myself. It was a private beach. There were some families on the beach. Every day I went down there, there was this old couple, 60 or 70. I would see them together on the beach holding hands. It was so amazing to think about that, how after being married for 40 or 50 years, after all that time, they still were holding hands spending each day with each other on the beach. That’s special, that’s what life’s about. It‘s not about going to these clubs and being superficial. When I was on the beach I was reading this book and I saw it, halfway through the summer I realized what it was really all about, and I just put my book down and I thought to myself for about an hour what was really important to me, and what matters. Since then, I’ve just been trying to get out of this lifestyle. It’s hard. [Hysterical laughter!] PUA: That feels like comfort. SB: That was more trust. She knows that I’m really trying hard to get out of this lifestyle and that if she takes a chance with me, I won’t (indiscernible) because I’m not that guy. I’m not the guy that wants to be like that. PUA: It’d be funny if these girlfriends got together and said, “He said that same shit to me.” SB: Yeah. I kind of strayed away from using canned material. I’d say 90% of my stuff is on the fly past the first 5 minutes. The first five minutes, you know some of the stuff is canned. It can be. I’ll tell a story, but the story won’t be real, like the story of the beach. It’s not really canned.
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260 PUA: You’ll use that again? SB: Yeah. You guys can use that too. So the next move was…I built all this comfort and trust. (indiscernible - traffic noise) I told her this story about how my first girlfriend smoked Marlboro cigarettes, and she was smoking Marlboros, so that reminded me of my first girlfriend. I was leaving, but as I’m leaving, I’m getting up and talking to her, walking away, talking, still telling her the story, walking, walking, walking, she’s following me out. She gets to the front door of her apartment and goes like this (holds herself back, stops short of going through the doorway?) almost like you could see her lose her balance. So I just kept walking, and now I’m in my apartment. I’m talking to her like this. We’re looking at each other. She’s got her head out the window. But see, this is the weird shit girls do when they know it’s going down. Major shit test. This is last minute resistance. So I walked in my apartment, and I’m yelling in my apartment now so she can hear me on the other side. “This is so stupid. I can’t believe we’re having this conversation like this.” She’s like, “I’m not coming in your apartment. I’m not coming in your apartment.” “I just got to get a sip of iced tea.” She runs over. “Iced tea?!” Now she’s outside my front door, leaning in like this. I’m drinking, really enjoying it. “Ahhh. This is sooo good. This is the best iced tea ever.” I’m right here and she’s trying to reach for it. She’s 20 feet away. I was like, “Come here. Do you want the iced tea or not?” We’re talking, but still I’m walking, drawing her closer and closer. We learned it from these salesmen in Miami. We’re walking out of the store, and the salesman goes, “Oh, we’ve got the specials right over here.” TD is like, “What?” (following him) So, I’m doing this to the girl and she follows me. I’m leading her all the way around. It was retarded. I could tell she wanted a good night kiss or something, because we hadn’t kissed at this point. I don’t kiss until all the way at the end, because that’s sort of validating them, that’s like qualifying them. You keep trying to make them earn it, earn it, earn it. So I’m not going to blow it early on by just giving them a kiss. I’m basically going to fuck them by the time…that’s how I know they’re going to be validated. PUA: As you’re telling the story you’re walking? SB: Yeah. I’m looking over my shoulder. PUA: I’ve done that a little bit. It works. PUA: The whole time she’s like, “You’re playing games, you’re playing games.” At this point I’m not even acknowledging that. I’m just walking. She’s doing anything she can to throw herself out of state. I walk all the way to the back of my apartment by my computer, look at my computer. She’s still talking to me. I’m like “Yeah, yeah, good, good.” Then one of the other friends comes in the room from the party next door. So now it’s okay for her to be in the apartment, because she felt comfort, right? She knew nothing was going to happen with her friend there. So she comes all the way into my bedroom, whereas 5 seconds before she’s like this (hanging behind the threshold?) over the front door. She won’t even walk in. Her friend leaves because I said something. “Why is she in my apartment. It’s sort of weird.” So she talks to her and tells her to go. Her friend leaves and she closes the door behind her. So I look at her. I look at her in the eyes like this: triangular gazing, eyes to lips. (indiscernible) glances. Go like this. I grab her, start making out with her. She fucking throws me on the wall, starts making out with me hardcore. It’s over… Sickboy Interview - Openers
Openers are just bullshit, right? It’s a way to get in. That’s going to lead you to display your personality and really work the set. Don’t rely too much on having the perfect opener. I’d say 75% of the sarges I do, halfway through, I don’t even remember what opener I used. The chicks don’t even know. An opener is just a neutral way to get into the set. The one’s we use the most now… David Bowie, jealous girlfriend, dental floss, wheelchair opener. PUA: What’s the dental floss opener? SB: “Hey guys. I have a really important question. A friend of mine and I have been debating this all day. Flossing: before or after you brush?” It’s retarded, right? But the girls laugh because it’s so weird. The key is that you build it up where it’s such an important question. After, you just go into your routine. Do mini-cold reads, etc. PUA: What’s the wheelchair opener? SB: It’s one Papa made up. “Hey guys. I need an opinion. Would you ever date someone in a wheelchair?” “Hmmmmmmm.” “That’s so superficial. I can’t believe you said that. You guys hang with this guy, are you kidding me? “What if it was a really nice wheelchair?” (Indiscernible: he describes the ‘features’.) If she responds positively, then you say “What if it was this really old, dirty wheelchair, where one wheel was bent?” That opener gets good responses all the time. Okay. A lot of you guys who don’t approach because you have approach anxiety…want a really good opener just to get the girls talking? Use the jealous girlfriend opener. Most of the time this will work and get the girls talking for 5 minutes. You can use any variation. ‘My friend just moved in with his girlfriend….,’ a certain problem arose, ‘what do you guys think?’ It will always get the girls talking. See how it’s so neutral? You’re not hitting on them, but at the same time you’re not insulting them. So, “My friend just moved in with his girlfriend. She finds a bra under his bed. The things been there for 6 months, so he doesn’t even know who’s it is. She flips out. Wants him to burn it. Is that even rational? What do you guys think about that?” It will just get them talking. I recommend that if you need help approaching. PUA: Can you talk about stringing them together? Do you need more than one opener? SB: That’s like a Mystery method style. What he teaches is to stack the openers. Mystery’s whole thing to do, because he does groups, is in the beginning he’ll just stack openers because all his openers are really interesting stories that take input from the
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261 group and convey his personality throughout these openers. At the same time he’ll neg the target. So, what he’s doing is he’s keeping the whole set entertained while he’s negging the target and building attraction with the one(s) that he wants. So if you want to stack openers and go that route, read up on Mystery’s posts. It’s amazing, amazing stuff. You guys should really read up on that. PUA: So you don’t stack them? SB: If it’s going bad, if you’re running out of stuff, I’ll stack them. But I like to take one opener and just work off of it, and just work off of it and just keep rolling, do a mini-cold read. Right at the opener you want to use a lot of attract material, get them laughing. You can do cocky/funny role-playing. “You can be my new girlfriend. Can you cook? No? Wait, we have to break up. This will never work.”…”Hey, we can get married. Wait, if we get married I’ll be a stay-at-home husband.” It’s just like funny stuff. So that’s what I would do after the opener. Once that stuff starts to bomb, I would do another opener. Sometimes I do an opener in the middle of the set. Let’s say some people approach the set, like the rest of her friends. Then maybe I’ll do another opener, just to get the rest of them involved. Because a lot of time with sets, when you’re working with a group, you want to get the whole group involved. Or, the one girl that’s not into it who will pull all her friends away, so you want to try to do that. Stacking openers is a great way to do that. Once they start asking you questions…They’re laughing and laughing. ”Hey, what’s your name?” That’s a huge indicator. That means they’re trying to get rapport with you. They want to know who you are. That’s a big IOI. From this point, you lessen; you lower it until the point where you’re basically in rapport and building comfort and trust. Drop the cocky/funny stuff. PUA: (Indiscernible – question from Mishel regarding his obvious accent and her asking where you’re from) SB: Yeah. This guy Toecutter is involved with that, too. What he says about that…I’m sure once that happens, the conversation just dies. Where are you from? PUA: Israel. SB: “Oh, I know someone from Israel.’” PUA: It should be very easy because maybe they have friends from Israel. SB: Yeah, it’s boring, right? They’re taking control of the conversation. You want it to be your conversation. So just bust ‘em, bust ‘em. Say something like, “Where do you come up with these questions? You don’t care where I’m from. Oh wow, you know someone from Israel? Maybe we know each other.” That’s how I would turn it around. PUA: One mistake I made a lot, which I’m correcting, is I pause too often on an opener. I pause for a reaction, or something like that. The group thing…you want to be in charge of the conversation so you don’t want to pause too often. At the same time, you don’t want to ask too many questions either. Just go one thing to the other. If you stand and pause for the reaction she’s going to think ‘stalker, stalker’ in her head, so you want to avoid that. SB: He brought up a good point. There are different ways of opening for different venues. When I’m in a club and it’s loud music and it’s all high energy girls tend to stand (?) like this. Unless you whack them over the head with some crazy material, they’re going to walk off. So you have to overwhelm their reality. The way you do that is you open fucking hard. You just open and start busting through your material quick quick quick. No pausing at all. Just keep going going going until you have them like a deer in the headlights, till they’ve stopped and you’re their only reality, everything else is blocked out. But if you’re in a coffee shop…you just… pause, because you’re not going anywhere, you’re at a table, talking normally. You don’t need to overwhelm them with material. On the street, too, you have to talk faster because if they’re walking somewhere you’re going to have to stop them and hold them there really quick. So that’s a good point about pausing, when and when not to do it, opening for different venues. PUA: I find sometimes they go straight to rapport and they respond more to that. PUA: You have to shit test them a little bit, because once you stray into rapport—sometimes that happens, you just get caught in a rapport trap, right? There’s no attraction there. You’re going to have weave things into the rapport stage as well, like intrigue. Then you’re going to have to use more body language to build that attraction from there. It’s really hard when that happens. That used to happen to me a lot. So you just get to them by shit testing. A lot of guys have a problem with the cocky/funny stuff and negging where it’s too hard and the girl’s getting offended. I moved almost completely away from harsh negs. My whole game right now is playful negs. Like calling girls ‘your little sister.’ Girls don’t want to be thought of as the little sister. Basically show them, “I love my little sister.” No girl is seriously going to go, “That’s so rude” and walk away. It’s going to bring them down a step, but at the same time it’s fun, it’s playful, right? So that’s what my whole game is right now. But for the 9s and 10s, you need those harsher negs. When you guys are doing this stuff, you’re probably doing it on girls with low self-esteem or mid self-esteem. Not as hot. They don’t get hit on as much. If they’re really responding well to you, don’t neg them because it’s just going to get bad responses. Any of you guys ever get a good field experience where all of a sudden you’re having this great conversation. Don’t bust out a neg. It’s just going to alienate the girl, push her away. If you do, do something to pull her back in. PUA: What do you do for Day 2 stuff? (remainder indiscernible) SB: Day 2 is something really important that I’ve been talking about a lot. When I was in Amsterdam with Mystery and TD, almost exclusively we talked about Day 2, because that’s where the real shit goes down. For guys like us, right now we’re just looking for really quality women to spend time with, girlfriends, stuff like that. All the one night stands with the party chicks, after a while it gets old; it’s not that hard once you get a decent game. You start getting fuck buddies. Sex for you guys won’t be the real thing
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262 you’re looking for. You’ll want to look for more quality women. So we don’t have sex with girls on Day 1s. We’ll save it for Day 2 so it’s more of a frame of a relationship, because a lot of times if you sleep with the girl the first night you met them they get buyer’s remorse. They’ll be like, “I slept with this weird club guy…it just happened…I felt skeevy about it…I don’t know if I should talk to him again.” So what if you had this great conversation, you had this great time at the club, and you don’t go for the full close. You save it for Day 2. You think on Day 2 she’s going to be worried about what happened the night before, or is she going to be more comfortable to meet up? She’s definitely going to be more comfortable. That’s what we were focusing on. A lot of the time, girls don’t want to meet up, it’s because 99% of the guys don’t understand this whole buying temperature stuff—girls have to be pushed up to that buying temperature. If you made out at the club on Day 1, on Day 2 they know you’re going to try to make out with them because you already did it before. Most guys think they can pick up from where they left off, which is not the case. That ‘s why on Day 2 you call her up, and all of a sudden you’re just this funny guy using callback humor from the day before. It’s not going to work; it’s not going to be funny. Let’s say the whole time you’re calling her ‘Powerpuff Girl.’ Then you get on the phone and you’re like, “Hey little Powerpuff Girl.” It doesn’t work because she’s not at that buying temperature. You have to push her to that again. On Day 1, I don’t really get her number, I get meet plans, which are a lot more solid. Think about it. If you’re in a club, you have a great conversation and at the end of the conversation you ask, “What’s your phone number? I’ll give you a call sometime.” You get the phone number, and granted she leaves thinking “Wow, this guy’s going to call me sometime.” You don’t call the next day or the day after. Four days goes by. She’s going to lose those memories of how good it was the first night, because the buying temperature is going to go down down down. If you call the next day with meet plans, the buying temperature is still going to be there a little bit and you’re going to be able to escalate from there. What I’ll do is something like, “Hey, tomorrow I’m going skateboarding in Central Park. It’s going to be really cool. You ever go skateboarding? I can teach you. Other than that we can just walk around the park. It’ll be fun. It’s going to be a great day out.” So you just have an activity in mind on Day 2. She’s like, “Okay.” You’re like, “How can I get in touch with you.” “Here’s my phone number.” See the difference between that and “What’s your phone number?” Solid game plans are fucking important. Always have a solid game plan no matter what. Even if you’re going to do a venue change in a bar have a game plan, when you get her back have a game plan, or Day 2 have a game plan. You’ve always got to know where you’re at. If you don’t know where you’re at, the chick doesn’t know where you’re at, she’s going to sense that and she’s going to go. Always have plans. If she says she can’t go, suggest something else, and if she says ‘no’ again and you sense she’s breaking off, say something like “Well, what steps are we going to have to take to make this happen?” It’s basically putting the ball in her court. Try to make plans the next day or the day after. I know a lot of guys ask how long do you wait before you call? A hot chick in a club, she gives guys her number. What, are you building anticipation by waiting? She knows you’re going to call, she knows what you’re calling for. Instead you ask, “Listen. What are you doing tomorrow? It’s really cool.” It’s not that intrusive. Think about it. The girl had all this comfort before. She had no reason not to. What’s the main reason why girls flake? Because they think you’re going to pick up from where you left off. They think it’s going to be weird. PUA: Do you have anything you do for a first encounter, like build trust and bridge to Day 2? SB: It’s building ultimate rapport, wide rapport. Deep rapport is when you talk about one subject. Let’s say you both love scuba diving and you talk about if for 2 hours in a bar. It’s a fucking great conversation. You say, “Let’s meet up.” She says, “Sure, sure, great, great.” She’s probably not going to go because she’s going to think, ‘what are we going to talk about, we’ll have nothing to talk about.’ Even in your sarges, what’s your biggest fear – running out of things to talk about? So, if you just talk about the one subject and finish talking about the one subject, she’s going think they’ll be nothing to talk about. What if you had all these different subjects to talk about and you don’t finish talking about them. On Day 2 she’s going to be more inclined to hook up, because you have more to talk about and you’re this person who can talk about so many different subjects instead of just one. PUA: Could that build comfort and trust, though? SB: That builds rapport. Yes, it’s very important to build trust, because she’s not going to be in your apartment with you the next day if she doesn’t have enough trust. Think about it. We’re these guys. We approach these girls super confident with super good material in a club, in a coffee shop, or on the street. You’re just not the next guy. Like who are you? So building comfort and trust is just displaying your personality, who you really are. Let them know you have a family, let them you have this job, this hobby that you’re passionate about. Let them know who you are as a person, that’s comfort and trust. Without that, you’re just this guy who approached in a club who got her attracted really quick and she’s probably a little leery about that. That’s not enough to go on. So building comfort and trust is super, super important. PUA: On Day 2, how do you build up to where you can go back to your apartment? (?) SB: You don’t have to use a lot of attraction stuff, because she’s already attracted to you. What she’s going to want initially is comfort. So you’re going to want to build comfort really quick. I just wrote a really good post on it. I’ll go as far as to say something, on Day 1, after we have meeting plans, like “Last time I went out with a girl that I kissed in a club she tries to kiss me as soon as we met, the next time. I don’t know if you girls are scared about that?” And she just picks up where I left off. Then she be like “Yeah, wow, me too.” Use all their shit against them. Use every single thing they’ve ever used against you against them. The strongest game I’ve ever used, all the best shit I’ve learned is from girls. All the girls that shut me down, pulled shit on me…it’s the best stuff. So, Day 2 is comfort first. Then you want to get rapport. Get to know each other. Rapport is just getting to know each other. Then escalate it to where you start seducing her and go for the close.
Sickboy Interview - Blowing AFCs/Cockblocks Out of the Set
SB: To cut down guys, we have a bunch of lines we use…Another guy approaches the set. A line he always uses is, “How do you guys know each other?” Usually people will talk about how they know each other. I’ll be like, “I fucked her.” You’ve got to do this on 9s and 10s. They’ll be like, “aaaahhh”. It’s really good. But do it on a 7…(and she’ll be freaked)
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263 PUA: But you hadn’t fucked her yet. SB: This is like totally cocky shit, like doing battle with the other guy. The guy’s like, “Ah-ah-ah-ah” and it totally cut him out of the set. Another thing…A guy comes and tries to bust up the set. He comes around to the chicks. I say, “Dude, dude. I will pay you $200 to take these girls off my hands right now.” The girls always say, “What? Ahhh.” The guy says, “What? $200? Pay me, pay me.” Then you go, “Chick’s (indiscernible).” Blown out, blown out. By saying that he’s qualifying himself right into your frame. He looks like a chump. And you’re negging the girls at the same time. PUA: Did you ever get a negative reaction from the girl who you supposedly fucked? SB: Yeah. When we first started trying it out. It doesn’t work all the time. You have to have high attraction girls, be in the set for a little bit. You have to use it on the right girls. PUA: What if you say she’s my wife or my girlfriend? SB: That’s kind of like qualifying yourself. That’s not like blowing out the other guy. You could say something like, “That shirt is fucking awesome, dude. Is that LaCoste? You know, I used to wear LaCoste in fucking high school. I had all those shirts.” It’s like, is that a compliment or what? This guy Bad Boy, he goes up to guys approaching girls and says, “Hey guys. Where’s your girlfriend? Where’s your girlfriend?” If they say, “she’s at home,” he says, “Girls, this guy leaves his girlfriend at home and comes out to hit on you. What’s up with that? If they say, “I don’t have a girlfriend,” he says, “How lame is that. This guy doesn’t have a girlfriend? Dude, there are some cute girls over there. Why don’t you go talk to them.” Or…”You’ll find someone.” A lot of alpha males will try to touch you for dominance. “Hey dude. I’m not into guys. The gay club is over there.” I’m with girls. They’ll come up and be very direct. I’ll be like, “Girls, do you know this guy? Is this your friend? He’s like freaking me out. He’s like touching you? What shit is that? Is he trying to seduce you?”…Call him out on the fact that he’s an alpha male. “That’s really cool. You’re the alpha male. You know, alpha males You’re like the leader of the pack. You call the shots. Like you’re the boss, man. Fuckin’ cool. You’re a really cool guy.” It’s like baiting the guy so much. Once they get made like that they try to gain rapport with you and ask you a question or say something. The second they do that lock them out of the set. Just completely ignore them and they’ll look like fucking chumps qualifying themselves to you. They’re blown out of the set.
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SEQUENCING When I'm in set here are the heirarchy of things I'm thinking about: 1- Vocal projection and resonation and pacing (the single most important part of the pickup). I focus on getting the most amount of projection and depth out of my system, without having to speed up my speaking speed. The reason is that its easier to project the faster that you talk, because the vocal movements help surpress the air, so it goes further. You don't want to have to speak quickly though, so this is difficult and therefore takes concentration. If you talk slower, you can't project as much unless you focus harder. You have to warm up your chords and have them resonating. You MUST even out your tonality so that they become almost hypnotized by it, and totally suggestable. You must also use rapport inducing vocal inflections in certain situations, rapport breaking inflections, disinterest inflections, interest inflections, and even screaming in certain situations. These all elicit autopilot responses that you need. I run my shit with NO "umms, uhhh, sort of like, stuff like that". I keep PERFECT eye contact, and resonate my voice in different ways based on their reactions, to amplify them. The girls are mesmerized within seconds, and even if their friends try to pull them away they usually don't even realize it until their friends freak out and yell "What are you doing to her?!?! Jenny, LET'S GO NOW!!" and drag her. Anyone is capable of this. It's purely a combo of vocal stuff and very very steady material. It's not hard to learn. 2- Mentally pummelling the girls. That means coming in HARD man. It's like if I'm going to knock over a cow. I'm not going to walk over slow and try to push it over, because its too big. I'm going to get ready, tense up, and RUN THE FUCKING THING DOWN... :) Get it? I roll in there, and I talk over the girls, and disacknowledge a lot of what they say by cutting off their bullshit screening threads and promoting the ones that help me. I have material tee-ed up, and I sequence it and re-sequence it so that their brains register a few things: I'm fucking SMART, I'm alpha, I'm a source of wisdom, I'm cooler than them, and I'm funny as hell. I never let them have the frame. If they ask me a question that would take the frame from me by allowing them to control the interaction in a way that doesn't help me, I make them re-phrase it more clearly so they're qualifying themselves. My comedic timing is 100% perfect. I extend the material like an accordian to wait for their anticipation to build up, before delivering punch line material (be it funny, intriguing, cocky, or whatever). I don't just go through the motions. I own the frame based on keen observation and calibration. **I'M NOT USING C&F AS ENTERTAINMENT, BUT RATHER AS REINFORCEMENT OF THE META-MEANING OF THE INTERACTION. 3- Bodylanguage awareness (mine and hers). Pulling back when they're hooked, and cutting in to get in close promiximity by looking at the group and closing in the space ASAP without them throwing up shields. Read "Active disinterest is not a-sexual", for how to close the distance in the set. Read "How to play hard to get, actually for real" for how to pull back. Oftentimes I walk into a set and see that they're hooked before I open my mouth, so I smile and pull back a bit and they start screaming and pull me into their set. Just like I'm Justin Timberlake or something. It's all bodylanguage sequencing. This is why you read the workshop testimonials like "This guy was amazing.. You have to see it, its insane". It's because I get these kinds of reactions, by highly calibrated use of bodylanguage. The same goes for phase shifting. I'm always thinking "Get in there TD.. Gear it down TD.. Gear it down....... Slow... Slow... She's turning.. Force her face back.. Keep her brain occupied with some bullshit that I learned from the discovery channel about emotional circuitry and physical reactions while I subcommunicate with her on the other channels and her brain switches gears".. Eventually she'll go for tonguedown, because you're forcing her to gear down. A great thing that Mystery does if they won't gear down is say "Look right here.. Look right here" with his finger up in between their two faces.. Then he says "Slow your switching speed.. Slow your switching speed.. Slooooow..." until they slow down (this sentence makes no sense). He is all the while communicating via the sexual and physical channel with his vocal resonations and speed and eye contact and slowness of his movements. The same goes for extractions and moving them within the club. I'm hyper keyed into their buying temperature and the little movements and reactions to my kino, so I always know when to extract. Guys are always shocked at how quickly I can venue change, and that's because I almost always know when its time and they'll say yes. The second I see they'll go for it, I start moving them around to prepare to get them in full isolation down the line. 4- Forcing autopilot responses. Tee-ing up TR, NR, BR sequencing. Trying for rapport, Neutral to rapport, and Breaking rapport. I alternate between these three forms of sentences, as needed. That means that the interaction and material is the same, but I alternate the words that go in between. The same sentence can mean various different things, depending on the words you add into it. I may say "I know this question is so weird.. I guess I'm just in a funny mood today. This is such a great club, do you like it? Me too. So yeah, like I was saying - (back on material)", if I think I'm overqualifying. Or I'll say "You guys are geniuses.. OK you're cool, anyway - (back on material)" It's like getting ready to knock over a 12 year old boy, or Mike Tyson. Do you just shove a bit, or wind up with everything you have? You don't want to shoot a bazooka at a squirrel, but you don't want to shoot a pellet gun at a moose. You use what's necessary - nothing more but also nothing less. Calibrate. I slam material delivery down their throats, that will guarantee the autopilot response that I need. I also force qualification based stuff on them, like "Do you have x,y,z???" right at the right point, as they say certain things. 5- Blueprint sequencing awareness. All girls have certain subconscious things that need to happen before they sleep with a guy. That's why so many girls will say to me while we're in bed "I'm not even attracted to you. I don't even want you." I've keyed into their blueprint and I've triggered it. So even though they aren't attracted to me or even like me, their lower brain is so hyper engaged that they are too suggestable to stop what is happening. This is also why girls will always cheat on their boyfriends. They can't control it any more than we could control a girl giving us a blowjob and busting our load. Stimulus causes reaction whether we like it or not. Girls are stimulated via their minds, and because its more covert than a girl blowing us, we can engage this stimulation and before she knows what's happening she's already so hyper engaged that she just goes for it. I am cued-in to their reactions, and I can tell what kind of girl she is and what kinds of things attract her. Some girls are more attracted to girls who pull back, while others are attracted to trust and other are attracted to rich snobs. Badboys, guys who make them feel safe.. Whatever. I get keyed into this stuff, and modify the interaction accordingly by deciding which parts of my personality to reveal. We all have these sides, and while we're building comfort by talking about our lives, we can divulge the information to them that is fits their blueprint program.
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265 **The material is the material that HOLDS the interaction WHILE I do these things. It's easier for me to maintain perfect EC and perfect tonality with ZERO "umms, uhhhs" or any other words that subcommunicate lower value or insecurity, because the material has this eradicated as part of its content. Because I appear so smooth, I appear more intelligent and sharper. It is useful because it allows my mental processor time to be spent hyper-analyzing the above aspects of the interaction. I KNOW that the material won't set them off in any negative way that could break state, unlike improved stuff which does not necessarily have a predictable outcome. I know the material has nothing stupid in it, and it has stuff in it that's interesting and therefore DISARMS THE ASD that the girls feel while they're becoming attracted, because they can rationalize to themselves "He's just interesting. That's why I'm staying here."
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