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Pitbull - a 9mm Luger homemade handgun Printed From: Weaponeer.net Forum Name: DIY Projects Forum Discription: Do it yourself projects URL: http://www.weaponeer.net//forum//forum_posts.asp?TID=20491 Printed Date: January 09 2017 at 7:52am Topic: Pitbull - a 9mm Luger homemade handgun Posted By: orwell1984 Subject: Pitbull - a 9mm Luger homemade handgun Date Posted: April 15 2013 at 3:27am < style ="text/css"> First of all as a newbie I'd like to introduce myself and just say you „hello!” I'm not from US. My english is not perfect (that is what I'm sorry for ). I am a home-grown gunsmith and pyrotechnician. I live in one of the EU sh*tty and dumb post-coomunist country. Everything I'm doing is highly illegal here (that's the reason I'm using TOR to connect you). Neverthless, obtaining a gun or ammo here is close to a mirracle (either legally or not) that's why I have every law just in the ass and keep making everything even that what is found highly illegal in the US . So please do not perceive it as trolling or a way of provocation. I appreciate the level of skill in this forum very much what had made me motivated to join you and maybe contribute with you for arming the global society and fighting the upcoming NWO that is arising around the world on our eyes. My workshop equipment includes lathe, milling machine, electrical table metal saw, a grinder, welder, vertical table driller, files, reamers, dies, a professional vise for small detailed parts Best Regard to Everybody!

Pitbull 1 - a basic version Work finished. Here I present a simple straight blowback 9mm handgun. This is not my first project but first in regards to real cartridges. Another projects will be presented as soon as possible. I'd like to you make opinions. Advices are always welcomed and highly appreciated

CARTRIDGE: 9x19 Parabellum (9mm Luger) ACTION: straight blowback operated, SA FEED SYSTEM: 8-rounds, Walther P1 magazines WEIGHT (with fully loaded mag): 1540 g SLIDE WEIGHT: 485 g LENGHT: 180 mm WIDTH: 30mm BARREL LENGHT: 90 mm

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CONSTRUCTION DETAILS: concept as simple as possible rubber recoil buffer inside the slide built mainly using welder and rivets to put in place the parts of the slide and frame frame has been built from flat parts of steel and put together using rivets barrel made out of 9mm barrel blank uses straight blowback mode of action thanks to heavy slide handgrip belongs to Browning HP pistol free floating firing pin (like in Makarov pistol or SKS-type rifle) made of standard construction steel (probably S235 EN10025 in European Standard http://www.leecosteel.com/products/en- standards-steel/s235.html ) hammer was made out stainless steel (I don't remember which type exactly it was) slide has been made out of a square pipe and has got the front welded to has no safety device except hammer "safe position" which make a gap between the hammer and the pin that makes the gun drop-safe disconneting/semi-auto system is related to a screw placed into the bolt underside. The screw has a half of a head removed in order not to drop out while the gun is cycling ____________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

Pitbull 2 - an upgraded and improved version Work finished.

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CARTRIDGE: 9x19 Parabellum (9mm Luger) ACTION: straight blowback operated FEED SYSTEM: 8-rounds, Walther P1 magazines WEIGHT (with fully loaded mag): 1530 g SLIDE WEIGHT: 500 g LENGHT: 180 mm WIDTH: 27 mm BARREL LENGHT: 90 mm

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CONSTRUCTION DETAILS (only improvements towards the first version): has no welding (slide milled and frame milled and riveted) stable firing pin assisted with a spring much better mag release magwell is closed entirely (the two before has the magwell open from the front (it was made such a way becouse the lack of skill while making the first model ) external shapes and 'holes' are more neatly finished (the gun is ... let's say... more 'streamlined'

)

a bit lighter than the first one none of those pistol has ever jammed - they cycle with no problems at all (even with ammo reloaded with an improvised amateur technique)

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Replies: Posted By: Mech warrior Date Posted: April 15 2013 at 8:09pm orwell1984, welcome! Thank you for the compliments to everyone here! You are welcome here and i did not perceive that as trolling or provocation. Thank you for sharing you builds and designs with us! Stay safe! ------------Neanderthal Armory 07FFL Measure, think about it, measure again, think about it some more, measure again, then cut......."Oh S***!!!!" "Courage is contagious. When a brave man takes a stand, the spines of others are often stiffened." Billy Gram "If my calculations are correct......when this baby hits 88mph, your gonna see some serious sh*t!"

Posted By: Tanner Frisby Date Posted: April 15 2013 at 8:48pm Mr. Goldstein, you have done a great job with this build, amazing craftsmanship. Stay undetected, Tanner Frisby

Posted By: orwell1984 Date Posted: April 16 2013 at 3:38am Big thanks for such a nice welcome! I made one mistake above - the weight of loaded Pitbull 2 is 1350g -------------

Posted By: Fantomen Date Posted: April 16 2013 at 12:39pm Very nice! I might try making one of these when/if I get a milling machine.

Posted By: milwiron Date Posted: April 16 2013 at 3:25pm Mr. Orwell1984, you've got talent... and balls. Keep up the good work. My hat is off to you.

Posted By: PANCHOBARRONR Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 11:37am good work,great pistol,,, try the sten mk11 or the mac-10 m11/9mm easy todo project,keep posting your projects

Posted By: Slowhand Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 7:55pm It is very encouraging to see these kinds of projects and the work and imagination that goes into them. That is why this is such a great site knowing there are like minded people all over the world that believe as we do in freedom and innovation. Kudos to Mr. Orwell1984. ------------"If the law supposes that,"said Mr. Bumble, the law is a ass, a idiot."

Posted By: Rumsey Date Posted: April 20 2013 at 12:08am Hello, I was wondering if this could be sized up for .45 ACP, and if one could lengthen the barrel to 5-6" for a 'service' pistol deal. If you could provide measurements for such a pistol, it'd be much appreciated, I have a few friends who can do CNC, and I can buy a barrel blank. I'd also like dimensions in detail for the original if you could. Excellent work by the way, nice to see a slide on a semi-auto pistol and not a tube gun.

Posted By: gundoctor Date Posted: April 20 2013 at 8:51pm Great ingenuity in building up the parts from components using welder and rivets. ------------Fraternitas in Armum ™

Posted By: Sagittarii Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 10:37am For those who would like a better look at the same in pdf all credits to orwell1984 http://www.weaponeer.net/uploads/files/22208/C6F56_Pit_ Bull_1.pdf - C6F56_Pit_Bull_1.pdf http://www.weaponeer.net/uploads/files/22208/74A79_Pit_ Bull_2.pdf - 74A79_Pit_Bull_2.pdf ------------When everyone carried guns people were polite. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Posted By: OldCoot Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 3:07pm Nice work on the PDFs, Sagitarii. Good work on your part, and orwell1984's....

Posted By: orwell1984 Date Posted: May 06 2013 at 12:55pm

Pitbull 3 Work under planning for future.

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- caliber: 9x19 Parabbelum - no external hammer - firing pin and trigger safety - fed with 15rnd Beretta M9 magazines - frame based on Steyr GB (welded out of two bended pieces side by side) - straight blowback operated - external barrel thread for silencer - barrel threaded into the frame - weight and width similar to Pitbull 2 - striker fully cocked (Single Action without external hammer) - trigger guard made of duralaluminium - this project is intent to be a kind of self-test before a more complicated one (scratch-built SIG Sauer P226/P228 clone with the trigger system modification) -------------

Posted By: Mech warrior Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 12:10am Thank you! Glad to see you still at it brother! ------------Neanderthal Armory 07FFL Measure, think about it, measure again, think about it some more, measure again, then cut......."Oh S***!!!!" "Courage is contagious. When a brave man takes a stand, the spines of others are often stiffened." Billy Gram "If my calculations are correct......when this baby hits 88mph, your gonna see some serious sh*t!"

Posted By: orwell1984 Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 2:11am Instead of thanking I'd be glad to see any advices and replies for my questions in my MAC thread -------------

Posted By: Sagittarii Date Posted: May 07 2013 at 11:58am orwell1984 It would help if you added a link to your MAC Thread ------------When everyone carried guns people were polite. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Posted By: orwell1984 Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 5:08am http://weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20492&KW= orwell1984 -------------

Posted By: orwell1984 Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 5:12am http://weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20492&PN= 1&TPN=1 -------------

Posted By: Mech warrior Date Posted: May 08 2013 at 9:23pm Fixed your link!

I really like the thread the link leads too! i would offer advice, if i was more knowledgeable on them!

http://weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20492&KW - http://weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20492&KW ------------Neanderthal Armory 07FFL Measure, think about it, measure again, think about it some more, measure again, then cut......."Oh S***!!!!" "Courage is contagious. When a brave man takes a stand, the spines of others are often stiffened." Billy Gram "If my calculations are correct......when this baby hits 88mph, your gonna see some serious sh*t!"

Posted By: Zuzzy Date Posted: May 23 2013 at 12:05am Sagittarii wrote: For those who would like a better look at the same in pdf all credits to orwell1984 http://www.weaponeer.net/uploads/files/22208/C6F56_Pit_ Bull_1.pdf - C6F56_Pit_Bull_1.pdf http://www.weaponeer.net/uploads/files/22208/74A79_Pit_ Bull_2.pdf - 74A79_Pit_Bull_2.pdf Nice files, but they have the same pictures (all pitbull 2)

Posted By: Sagittarii Date Posted: May 23 2013 at 8:00am His list of changes they basically are the same thing version 2 has a different slide manufacture CONSTRUCTION DETAILS (only improvements towards the first version): ◾

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has no welding (slide milled and frame milled and riveted) ◾ stable firing pin assisted with a spring ◾ much better mag release ◾ magwell is closed entirely (the two before has the magwell open from the front (it was made such a way becouse the lack of skill while making the first model ) ◾ external shapes and 'holes' are more neatly finished (the gun is ... let's say... more 'streamlined' ) ◾ a bit lighter than the first one ◾ none of those pistol has ever jammed - they cycle with no problems at all (even with ammo reloaded with an improvised amateur technique

------------When everyone carried guns people were polite. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Posted By: REDNECK1976 Date Posted: May 28 2013 at 7:56pm WOW... WOW... and WOW!!! Your work on the pitbull 1 and 2 is just great , i want... no... I NEED ONE!!!... Pleace share the detail blueprints... And you are not the only one living in a slave nation brother... Keep the good work... Let the beard grow free... ------------Slaves dont have guns and education... how much books and ammo you have?

Posted By: A w a Y Date Posted: June 04 2013 at 2:34am Thank you for sharing the informations about this build. I was looking them for a long time. I live in another country that is taking large steps towards a socialist corrupt dictatorship. Im convinced the world would be a better place if everyone had a 2nd Ammendment orwell1984 there are some guys in thailand building a really simple kind of revolver. I think it would be easy to you build some with your tools http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20321&KW= revolver

Posted By: orwell1984 Date Posted: June 14 2013 at 7:00am Thanks but I can't see any need or reason to build such a sh*t. -------------

Posted By: TOFAB Date Posted: February 01 2015 at 4:03pm Thank you Sagittarii and orwell1984 for the Pit Bull 1&2 info. I hope #3 will have all the dims.

Posted By: lutylover Date Posted: February 18 2015 at 5:19pm As a note of interest, orwell1984 also has a youtube channel showcasing his pistol - " focusofdarkness ". From memory he states that it got seized by the Polish FBI. He also shows other guns, which he says are seized. He has a video showing a "8mm" open bolt machine gun"... to me that says 7.62, which people said couldn't be done open bolt- pistol 7.62 cartridge?

Posted By: backbencher Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 3:34am 8mm is more likely the old German 7.92x57mm or 7.92x33mm. Most machineguns are open bolt. -------------

Posted By: UKBiker Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 5:22am BB semi auto blank firing pistols tend to be either 8mm or 9mm the 8mm is somewhere inbetween the .25acp and .32acp dimensions the 9mmPAK blank is between the .32acp and .380acp sizes both are approx 15mm long cases. 9mm PAK blnk guns have been converted to .380 but the projectile has to be pushed approx 2mm further into the case in order to fit into the magazine

Posted By: lutylover Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 5:25am Hmmm.... See for Poland I'm thinking that the cartridges are more likely to be old Eastern bloc? On the border with Lithuania etc.7.62 x39mm? It's not the Tokarev I don't think - wrong bullet shape and if he's using commercial 9mm then it's fair to say then the "8mm" is commercial? Actually, that 7.92x33mm Kurz looks like the culprit! True, MG42 etc was open bolt. Just thinking of the top of my head of Orion's chart I think, saying not to use rifle cartridges in blowback. Must have been some bolt weight then. Given it's a recent upload there's a chance he'll be back here

Posted By: lutylover Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 5:32am Got it - he says 8mm cartridge using 6,8 [sic] mm nail blank. Now, in the video it definitely looks like he's taken the bottom of the 7.92 (still think Kurz) and has dropped or glued the 6.8mm blank in. However the Kurz is 12mm wide at the bottom - unless he's using an extra brass ring around the cartridge when gluing then it wouldn't fit/ However, Luty did the same style and so I think there may be some inspiration from there. However reading the comments, he's already "scrapped" the gun so to avoid the police - scrapped could be destroyed completely or in that ammo box that's been buried lol!

Posted By: UKBiker Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 12:07pm If he's using nailgun blanks then they're rimmed, I presume he's using the nailgun blank as a primer for the main charge.

Posted By: lutylover Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 4:19am Hmm... That could be true - what's the length of a nailgun blank? Given this isn't a .22 one but a .277 one lol. I could see him just turning a piece of brass , say 3mm wall thickness and drilling it out then dropping it into the cartridge then set in the blank - a possibility depending how powerful his blanks are. It would be pretty interesting to see the Pitbull 1 designed as a box section pistol - something that hasn't been done before? I know it has a box section slide but I was thinking full thing...

Posted By: UKBiker Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 7:18am There's some video on youtube of nailgun blanks being used with a .22 air rifle pellet on the end which is spitting them out at around 3000fps with an 18 grain pellet, they have enough energy to drive a nail into an RSJ so it should have enough power to spit a heavier projectile out at a fair old lick

Posted By: lutylover Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 11:31am Although I read a write up somewhere that said that most blanks use a faster burning powder so you want things to shift quickly, if anything is too tight you can get a massive pressure spike really quick! So while it can be done if I had to improv ammo I'd stick to other methods... Personally... However numerous people appear to have had success with blanks!

Posted By: backbencher Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 11:38am Nail gun blanks are actually intended to drive a projectile; the new .17" WSM cartridge was actually developed from Winchester's own .27" nailgun cartridge. -------------

Posted By: UKBiker Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 1:27pm That's interesting BB I wasn't aware of that. I used a Hilti nail gun to fix into RSJ many years ago and it was a pretty fearsome bit of kit firing 40mm nails into solid steel columns was pretty incredible. It did make me think about using the nails as a penetrator core though as a cheap way to may AP rounds, simply drill down the projectile and install the nail into it before soldering the end up again.

Posted By: lutylover Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 2:34pm Ah, sorry fellas - I'm thinking of plain old blanks - like a 9mm blank. Makes more sense. I'm keen to keep this topic alive, this is one of the more interesting (IMO!!!) topics, I'd be keen to see if anyone else had a semi-expedient pistol like this! The semi-automatics are definitely cool. I recall the Chinese are prolific at home pistol building? Although looking at their youtube videos, hefty machinery. That given pretty scrappy drawings in some cases - more Holmes style of getting close and doing final fit. This sort of engineering gets me, trying to fit disconnector etc in a few mil gap either side of a magazine - to me that's just genius if they can get it internal! I know blah blah blah big corporations blah but there's just something about an oppressed person fiddling this all out and getting this really awesome piece of engineering at the end! anyone with me?

Posted By: backbencher Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 4:46pm If, as Mao stated, power comes from the bbl of a gun, what happens when a billion oppressed people find out they can build guns out of Legos? -------------

Posted By: UKBiker Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 5:04pm backbencher wrote: If, as Mao stated, power comes from the bbl of a gun, what happens when a billion oppressed people find out they can build guns out of Legos?

The UN will invade Denmark

Posted By: UKBiker Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 11:40pm I watched the videos of him firing it and it looked good although he did suffer some misfeeds during the 4 or 5 mags he put through it but I think that was just a case of fettling it a bit or possibly the old Walther mags causing issues

Posted By: backbencher Date Posted: February 25 2015 at 12:40am Fettling? Is that what we mean by limp-wristing? -------------

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Posted By: Zuzzy Date Posted: February 25 2015 at 10:54am lutylover wrote: This sort of engineering gets me, trying to fit disconnector etc in a few mil gap either side of a magazine - to me that's just genius if they can get it internal! I know blah blah blah big corporations blah but there's just something about an oppressed person fiddling this all out and getting this really awesome piece of engineering at the end! anyone with me?

Blah blah blah you should blah blah blah stop reading topics and admiring others and blah blah blah start doing something by yourself blah blah blah. The creator of pitbull pistol surely didnt come up with all his designs just by making blah blah blah posts on the forums.

Posted By: lutylover Date Posted: February 26 2015 at 12:44pm I am Zuzzy, that's why I've revived this thread My primary project is something else, I'll write it up when finished but I prefer to not do build threads. I'm looking at plans from this and trying to disassemble them and mix them a bit with the vol 1 Practical Scrap Metal Small Arms - my motivation came from my earlier comment about a box section pistol!

Posted By: UKBiker Date Posted: February 26 2015 at 3:11pm Forgotten weapons have just done a vid on the Walther MP a 9mm straight blowback pistol designed in the late 1920s and essentially a scaled up PP chambered in both 9X19 and 9X23 Largo, it looks a very interesting pistol and proves that a straight blowback 9mm pistol doesn't have to be heavy and unwieldy Something like the MP would be a good idea no complicated locking surfaces and fixed barrel accuracy. I like the Pitbull as it is quite a modular way of assembling it and would lend itself to both a welded construction or the pinned version

Posted By: anthrax Date Posted: April 19 2015 at 8:50am hey great awesome work !!! i have 2 questions. first one is how did you ream the chamber? with a 8mm 1:50 taper pin reamer? or with a commerically one or did you make on yourself. 2nd is do you reload your ammo? if yes why dont you use the powder of the hilti blanks. in most countries like germany you can buy cases primers and bullets without license. for the powder you could take blank cartridge powder from hilti blanks

Posted By: backbencher Date Posted: April 19 2015 at 10:12am Blank powder is not intended to drive a projectile, and tends to produce extremely high pressures when put behind a bullet. That's why anti-gun authorities don't tend to regulate blank powder - it's a self correcting problem. -------------

Posted By: anthrax Date Posted: April 19 2015 at 10:53am i dont think so about blank powder. maybe the pressure is higher. but i have 22lr factory loads the only ones i ever got my hands on. i pulled the bulllet an used the powder in my 9mil from the other thread. it burned he same with the same amount of grains it also bulged the casing the same it even had the same exterior and penetrated the same amount of wood. also i got the exact content percentage from the blanks from the factory pdf. its double base 77%nc 23%ng and i looked up very fast pistol powders they also have up to 25% NGlike bullseye why should that be so different? those nailguns also have to drive a piston and dont blow up. i wouldnt use it for a rifle but that powder burns exactly the same like 22 powder. its also ball powder and i think i can use it in pistol ammo . also orwell use this blanks in his smg look the vid up on youtube homemade 8mm smg. he stuffed the strongest blanks in a 7,62 and it works....

Posted By: anthrax Date Posted: April 19 2015 at 10:56am why should the factory use bomb powder in there blanks. the nailguns also work with these. look up taofledermaus shooting pellets with 3000fps with nail gun blanks. did you try it yourself? did you load a small amount in a gun and tested it? yes the powder is fast it would propably blow a rifle up but the content is almost he same like very fast pistol powder. it even looks the same and it has the same energy i ccouldnt manage to realize a big difference to .22 powder

Posted By: backbencher Date Posted: April 19 2015 at 4:08pm The problem w/ blank powder is that it's extremely fast burning. And you're trying to hotrod a cartridge beyond its normal limits. In the US, we very carefully work up a load with known powders, from manufacturers that hold tight quality standards, knowing that their customers need a very consistent pressure curve to keep from blowing their guns up. So you're well beyond SAMMI/CIP limits in your 9x19mm, w/ an UNKNOWN powder whose manufacturer never intended it as a pistol powder. If you were using a much larger cartridge, like .44" Magnum, and trying to run it @ lower pressures, like .44" Special, you'd have a much larger margin of safety here. You're trying to run a smaller cartridge @ .44" Magnum pressures. It's not recommended. -------------

Posted By: UKBiker Date Posted: April 19 2015 at 4:32pm Certainly with the materials limitations of expedient firearms design the pressures become more critical. Most manufactured firearms will use the correct grade of steels which have undergone the correct hardening processes for the application that they are being used in. With Luty designs and others like Bill Holmes and the Prof Parabellum designs they are built to use standard widely available cartridges with known characteristics in respect of pressure curves and burn rates in barrels made of suitable materials and dimensions. Hotrodding a manufactured firearm is fraught with problems just look how many revolvers Elmer Keith destroyed when he was developing the .44 Magnum and .357 Magnum loads, and he was starting off with S&W revolvers of extremely high quality rather than a homemade firearm constructed with whatever materials were to hand at the time. It is the same sort of idea as tuning engines I wouldn't hesitate to shove a load of nitrous oxide through a Suzuki Hayabusa but I would have serious doubts about shoving the same amount of giggle gas through a Vespa 50 scooter, let alone riding the damn thing afterwards!!! It is pretty much the same level you are talking about doing with your homemade cartridges and firearms.

Posted By: Zuzzy Date Posted: April 20 2015 at 8:26pm All these pressure talk depends if he is using unrifled or rifled barrels, since in the first ones, pressure is lower due to the powder not being capable to burn completely. I would like to know the exact percent of fps or mps loss in barrels and cartridges compared, but havent found that on the net so far, nor have I seen some scientific experiments on the subject.

Posted By: Siberian Cossack Date Posted: May 18 2016 at 1:12pm Çäðàâñòâóéòå! Hello! Great project pistol, I hope someday there will be bluprint. Regarding the equipment, ammunition and gunpowder that was discussed here, we have pistol powder too, not to buy. I for rig 7,62Õ25ììÒÒ and 9Õ18ÏÌ used the powder for shotguns(I have a permit for a shotgun and I can buy the powder for shotguns in the store gunpowder for rifles we have not sold the brand "Socol" and "Sunar 35" "Sunar 45" (these correspond roughly gunpowder gunpowder sold in your countries Nobel sport(A1;SP -8; 0) Accurate ( N 5 ; Solo 1250; N 5) Alliant (unique, herco, power pistol) Hodgdon (station Wagon ; long Activities; XC 6 and 7) IMR (SR 4756 ; 800 X) Vihtavuori ( N 330 ; 340 N ; 3 N 37 ; N 350) Rottweil ( P 804 ; P 803 ) p/s Sorry for my English.

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